This marking up/down crap you still allow for posts...

That's a very fair point mate. Don't expect much improvement though, you'll quite likely ignite that very thing with your post on this thread.

First rule of Libcom - don't criticise the big hitters
Second rule of Libcom - prepare to have a can of whoopass opened on you if you do

You've got it the opposite, what we need is to extend it farther. In real life interactions we need to thumbs up and smiley face with things we agree with, and thumbs down and frown grumpy face when we don't. How else will I be able to obsess over phantom feelings of approval and disaprooval?

I still think that down votes are useful for when someone is being rude or abusive to someone. I don't feel the need to make an entire post about their behavior.

I wasn't in favour of them when they were introduced and I'm not sure if they work particularly well because down votes don't seem to stop bad posting nor encourage good posting (although that would be harder to spot).
I don't know if people take much notice of them, At first I would re-read down-voted posts to see if there was a problem but as you don't know why they were down-voted, nor by whom there doesn't seem much point to it. It is nice to get some up-votes when you have put a lot of effort into a post, it is flawed but at least it shows you people have actually read what you wrote.

I like them. Sometimes I don't have time to read everything, like on break at work, and I'll read stuff that has been upvoted a lot. Plus I like the peer pressure it places on shitposters. I don't like that sometimes people use it because they don't like the poster personally. I also don't like the offtopic posting about a downvote that happens because someone recieved one and they have trouble accepting it.

The 'up' / 'down' votes are only seen by private members of libcom.org and not by the general user of the site and therefore are acceptable in my eyes. If one is confident in the comments one makes, receiving an up or down vote makes no odds. However, if one is hoping to be elected, it could be disconcerting.

Noah Fence

That's a very fair point mate. Don't expect much improvement though, you'll quite likely ignite that very thing with your post on this thread.

First rule of Libcom - don't criticise the big hitters
Second rule of Libcom - prepare to have a can of whoopass opened on you if you do

True story: last night before posting this I fell over in the street and bashed my head on the kerb. That is my excuse for this post coz I completely misunderstood the OP. That's the only excuse I've got. Duh.

So, I think the voting system is pretty good. It can be used however you want. Sometimes I'll view upvotes as positive and the same with downvotes, it depends on the topic and who's joining in with the thread. Easy to misenterprate however you use them. If it bothers you when you get downvotes you really need to toughen up a bit, it's just not very important. There a poster I know IRL that hardly ever gets voted down but is really bothered by it when it happens. I don't understand this, I mean, I really couldn't care less but then, we're not all constituted alike.

I wasn't in favour of them when they were introduced and I'm not sure if they work particularly well because down votes don't seem to stop bad posting nor encourage good posting (although that would be harder to spot).

Jeff basically summed it up. What I get from posts by admins on other threads is that down votes were meant as a way of flagging up posts that are against the posting guidelines but fall short of actually needing to be reported. The problem is that there really isn't an agreed upon definition of what this would mean in practice and people aren't using them in the way they are intended.

I do use the voting system, and I tend to get both up votes and down votes for any posts that I think say anything meaningful, but I don't think its necessarily a good system. I have friend who was really upset about the an argument on a thread a while back. When I had a look at the posts I couldn't understand what she was on about until I logged in and saw the votes, how polarized it seemed. I think they make conversations seem more divisive than they are.

I was also one of those most vociferous in my arguments against this function when it was introduced and didn't make use of it at all for ages, but have to admit getting tempted in more recently when confronted with regular, and in my experience on the site, very repetitive stale old arguments I find it hard to summon the energy to respond to endlessly, especially when started by (new?) posters too lazy to do a bit of their own research of the site. I will try to be more patient in future.

Noah Fence

That's a very fair point mate. Don't expect much improvement though, you'll quite likely ignite that very thing with your post on this thread.

First rule of Libcom - don't criticise the big hitters
Second rule of Libcom - prepare to have a can of whoopass opened on you if you do

9 down votes? Oh no, my poor crushed ego. I'll never post anything dumb, irritating, trollsome, or original again. The dissaproval is killing me!

Noah, I'm sure all is now forgiven. How is that bump on your head?

I see your point sleeper(apart from the 'outdated' bit - Libcom is the least outdated looking political site out there) but I don't agree. That to one side, what's the big deal? It has to be pretty exceptional circumstances for me to give a fuck. You're right that it does get misused, sometimes for a bit of a laugh and sometimes(I think) because people have a resentment with someone else and will downvote anything that person posts. These guys are just dicks though and I don't reckon we should change a feature jus because a few people are dicks.

Auld-bod

Noah, I'm sure all is now forgiven. How is that bump on your head?

I don't think it was really the knock on the head, it's just coz I'm a dumbass. The head is fine but my leg is sore and my right shoulder and arm are fucked. You know you're old when you fall over and feel unsure as to whether or not you can get up again!

Upvotes are kind of interesting because I'm interested to see what other people think although whether that is good or just means groupthink is a difficult question.

Downvotes are basically meant to be like "flagging" a post, right. They are misleading and confusing, I can't remember seeing one actually used it that way.

I don't really understand what downvotes are all about actually. I also don't understand why people get so worked up about them although I probably would if I got a lot.

I also don't understand why people get so worked up about them although I probably would if I got a lot.

Lol, try swapping places with me for a week or two.

Bourgeois democracy advocates the secret ballot; proletarian democracy favours a show of hands. Perhaps the element of anonymity could be removed from the votes cast here in the manner of Facebook. I don't know if that would be a difficult task to achieve technically.

There have been numerous discussions on this where we have given the libcom view, so we won't be making a formal response to this. However just to say we are working on a major redesign of the site behind-the-scenes, and comment feedback is one of the areas we are thinking about what we should do with it. So if anyone has any concrete suggestions on decent ways of providing both positive feedback, and ways of flagging up bullying, abusive or rude posts but which don't necessarily break the posting guidelines please let us know.

TBH some of this thread does seem a bit like someone being sore they have got lots of down votes, stemming from their dismissive posts about women, people of colour and other discriminated-against groups. Which is one of the reasons we brought it in, so that kind of shows it's been working in one respect at least.

Think I may have said this before (but that’s never stopped me in the past).

I vote ‘up’ if I’m 90%+ in agreement with a post; or if an argument is very well put - even if I think it is misguided; or strikes me as very witty.
I vote ‘down’ if someone is fundamentally wrong or being overtly offensive.

Sharkfinn’s post about the point system making things more divisive is a good one, especially as everyone will use different voting criteria. I'm in favour of open voting.

EDIT
Noah hope you feel better soon. I slipped on the stairs about a year ago and manage to drag myself into the recovery position. I stopped there for half an hour. Eventually the cat wanting her breakfast made me shift myself. My insides still feel a bit, 'shake rattle and roll'.

I love my down votes. Wouldn't trade them from anything. Up votes bore me to tears.

S. Artesian

I love my down votes. Wouldn't trade them from anything. Up votes bore me to tears.

And there, in a nutshell, is the only really sensible of the voting system. I'm occasionally unnerved by an upvote but downvotes are milk and honey to me. Er, vegan honey obviously. Oops, I aside the word vegan - here come the downvotes. Shit, I said vegan again. Hang on, I just said... etc.

You know what really makes libcom look stupid and outdated? Dismissive posts about women, people of colour and other discriminated-against people.

Or perhaps I just remember some of your more memorable posts.

Sleeper

Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else.

lol as if the women that post here need to be told by the admins that sexism is bad.

Sleeper

Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else. Fleur

You know what really makes libcom look stupid and outdated? Dismissive posts about women, people of colour and other discriminated-against people.

The thing is Sleeper, Fleur is right here. Old fashioned attitudes matter. Internet trends do not. Anyways, late 90s is like yesterday to me! Shoes have been worn for a long time, they work though so I ain't gonna stop wearing them coz their old fashioned. Same with votes. Bad analogy I guess but you get my meaning? I like the feature but take votes with a pinch of salt.

Sleeper

Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else.

yeah we do remember your posts. Changing your name doesn't make everyone forget. Like Sellafield.

So, I've been against the up/down system from the get-go - despite using it, admittedly. I think it actually makes flaming more likely as people may feel they have more to prove/defend if they've got a lot of votes one way or the other.

But, as Steven has pointed out, the admins have made their decision on this and I don't think there's much chance of them changing their minds. That said, I really think there's something to think about here:

Downvotes are basically meant to be like "flagging" a post, right. They are misleading and confusing, I can't remember seeing one actually used it that way.

Up-votes and down-votes are used to express agreement or disagreement (including disagreement with sexist or oppressive shit). That's the reality of the situation and I don't think we should pretend that down votes are somehow part of a system of self-policing or whatever.

Just on this:

proletarian democracy favours a show of hands. Perhaps the element of anonymity could be removed from the votes cast here in the manner of Facebook.

This is come up before and, man, if we think there's beef now, I can't even imagine how nasty things could get if people saw (or at least perceived) a pattern of the same person consistently downing their posts.

Noah Fence

Auld-bod

Noah, I'm sure all is now forgiven. How is that bump on your head?

I don't think it was really the knock on the head, it's just coz I'm a dumbass. The head is fine but my leg is sore and my right shoulder and arm are fucked. You know you're old when you fall over and feel unsure as to whether or not you can get up again!

[youtube]cwCtM6D4GOc[/youtube]

This is come up before and, man, if we think there's beef now, I can't even imagine how nasty things could get if people saw (or at least perceived) a pattern of the same person consistently downing their posts.

Oh man, that sounds like a blast. Come on admins, get this shit on. For one thing, I rarely upvote anyone and I NEVER downvote anyone apart from my fellow downvote fans. I could just sit back and enjoy the action.

I'll watch the vid in the morning Comrade Chilli, I'll disturb my bedfellow if I switch it on now. Yet more injuries will ensue if I do that!

Edit: Ok, I watched it. Is that Noam Chomsky? The dress really suits him.

Spikymike is right. Can we get rid of the anonymity? If yes, that'd be dead good. Can we also have the options available a bit more interesting please. Instead of boring up/down maybe a range of options like "tip top", "all right, I suppose", "nah mate, not having that" and "you've got that all arse sideways"?

Serge Forward

Spikymike is right. Can we get rid of the anonymity? If yes, that'd be dead good. Can we also have the options available a bit more interesting please. Instead of boring up/down maybe a range of options like "tip top", "all right, I suppose", "nah mate, not having that" and "you've got that all arse sideways"?

And don't forget the very important button 'actually, I wholeheartedly agree but because of something you posted on another thread that really got my goat, I'm gonna downvote you anyway'.
I predict a promising future that particular feature!

Chilli Sauce, as I said, it's not like we are set on this. With the redesign we are thinking about a new way of doing this sort of feedback, so if people have suggestions, or are aware of Drupal modules please let us know. We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it and we didn't want to look like we were copying them…

Noah and Auld, I can empathise with your condition. I suffered for many years with what doctors diagnosed as fibromyalgia, which they describe as a chronic condition. Over a period of a couple of months I ingested kaneh bosm in cookies (a quarter ounce per batch of eight cookies) and now I have been virtually pain free for six months. I know that people will retort that it is a fact of old age to suffer debilitation but my friend who is normally confined to a wheel chair has reported that under the influence of said plant she 'prances over Parliament Hill like a mountain goat'.

Sorry to lead this discussion off-topic – I just wanted to help.

Steven.

We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it…

As a confirmed social media refusenik, the idea that I've suggested something that Facebook has already started doing makes me want to shoot myself in the face.

Serge Forward

Steven.

We were thinking about doing something more like Serge Forward suggests, however then Facebook started doing it…

As a confirmed social media refusenik, the idea that I've suggested something that Facebook has already started doing makes me want to shoot myself in the face.

I feel your pain. It is indeed a dreadful position you find yourself in.

You know Sleeper on plenty of occasions other users have taken the time to tell you what specifically they find in your posts to be flawed or problematic, instead of just clicking down and ignoring you.

You don't really seem to appreciate the courtesy. On the contrary you often shift immediately into abrasive if not abusive mode. I don't really see a solution that will make you happy here.

Since the official libcom policy is that down votes are only supposed to be used for "flagging up bullying, abusive or rude posts," when it gets used for other reasons it's totally without context. In practice, this function itself constantly gets abused. "Down" means exactly what?

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

But do it with a Nietzschean edge: for posts that conform with what we personally like we can click an icon like this with a label saying GOOD.

For posts that we personally disfavor -- for any reason whatsoever -- we can click an icon like this and have it labeled EVIL.

Hieronymous

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

Sleeper

I think removing this childish point scoring system, and you not following me around the forums, would make me happy tonight.

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Steven.

Hieronymous

Since contemporary life under capitalism, whether we like it or not, is morphing to be more and more like Facebook, why not just take "if you can't beat them, join them" literally and make this website the libertarian communist version of Facebook and other social media?

basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

As a disclaimer, I personally am another of the very few Facebook refuseniks.

As for definitions of social media:

forms of electronic communication (i.e. websites) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, messages, and create content

sounds a lot like libcom to me. How is this website not social media?

Hieronymous

But do it with a Nietzschean edge

Exactly, why not keep this system while making it more lighthearted somehow?
Yay/Nay
GOOD/EVIL
Beans/Poopy
Orgasm/Herpes
Awesome/Stalinism

Whatever

Hieronymous

basically because libcom isn't social media, it's a website, albeit a website with mostly user generated content

As a disclaimer, I personally am another of the very few Facebook refuseniks.

As for definitions of social media:

forms of electronic communication (i.e. websites) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, messages, and create content

sounds a lot like libcom to me. How is this website not social media?

well I guess it's semantic really. But if you want to get into it, I guess libcom is a type of website which predates social media in its current form. I guess I would say that social media websites are primarily about the platform, or the medium. Whereas we are about the content, in order to push an idea. So we are more like Wikipedia or Indymedia than Twitter or Facebook.

The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Schmoopie

The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Couldn't resist giving that a down vote :D

Schmoopie

The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

Wrong. It is an excellent tool for self affirmation of contrary bastards that revel in the disapproval of others like an overgrown teenage punk rocker. Or to put in another way, bring on the down votes! I love 'em!!!

I wonder what proportion of up & down votes are caused by people scrolling up and down on mobile phones and tablets.

I was going to post Down Presser by Peter Tosh and the Wailers but this one (Beat Down Comrade Man by Junior Byles) jumped off the page:
[youtube]XQ7BgmdSS7c[/youtube]
Still sounds fresh and check the lyrics.

Schmoopie

The down voting system is an excellent tool for the coward and the incapable.

And that's a bad thing???

Don't like them. I think they add snarkiness and are often used
For popularity purposes

There have been times when I posted simple, pretty straight, non provacative stuff,
and have been downed.

Down-votes can be something along the lines of, 'I disapprove, but now make up the reasons yourself from what we have said or not so much,' so if you don't co-operate they're not a serious problem in the context. Still, generally speaking they're probably optional at best. The suggestion about using the 'evil' denomination might be decent, but then it might be unclear if it's meant literally or not and this will even further blur the lines as to what exactly it's to mean. It also might be strange image-wise, given that this is not usually a primarily Christian forum, for instance.

Generally, an up-down system can seem to build interest, in a way, but in this it can be highly ambiguous. Twitter, for instance, lacks one in a similar way, but had to make up for this by stressing various zany means of integrating it into the overall social, informal hierarchy of capitalism, which can hence express the discrepancies belonging to this and so on as if it were a negative vote, although of course it is not. This is fairly inane - obviously when people 'like' things on the Internet, they're not trying to pay someone's wages, which is ew. In addition to this, pretending that a lack of attention - where attention generally means promotion or identification of some sort with capital - is itself a negative vote leads to a fairly strange hierarchy based on making up people who disapprove even though nobody can really do that. In that sense, if you just got rid of 'down-votes,' the same dramas may play out through quantities of up-votes, without any interaction being encouraged between them or general response, although Libcom is usually not associated with the same crowds - except Sleeper, who almost everybody follows. In that sense, generally, this sort of drama can easily be allied to the drama associated with ordinary societies of certain kinds which were around this site, and hence allow in ambiguous elements or place a higher value on non-class issues, etc., if played seriously or not damped a bit, but in general such imagery need not be obligatory, but is fairly likely. Still, this kind of thing depends on the overall direction and intent of the forum, and etc.

Finally, 'up' and 'down' votes are generally a form of approval, and if 'down' votes are supposed to have a specialisation not proper to 'up' votes, then there is probably a better way of implementing this. Otherwise, it might also be unclear what their accompanying 'up' votes are for, which means that as implemented their proximity is out of keeping with their apparent asymmetry.

Sleeper

Perhaps you should read back through what I have said instead of spouting crap you've been told by someone else. Fleur

You know what really makes libcom look stupid and outdated? Dismissive posts about women, people of colour and other discriminated-against people.

In general, seems a bit strange that this thread for a space just became about Sleeper and their posting elsewhere, without dealing directly with the issue raised. Evidently, if people have problems with a post, they can just reply to it. Otherwise, it has little relevance to the issue raised, outside of their particular way of framing it, which is still not the question.

I love my down votes. Wouldn't trade them from anything. Up votes bore me to tears.

You like people disagreeing with you, and acting contrary to your preferences, generally? Might as well let a bunch of Conservatives and typical Daily Mail commenters on here, then, you'd never see the end of it. That could easily get a bit icky when it comes to what you'd like these people to advocate and do.

I think removing this childish point scoring system, and you not following me around the forums, would make me happy tonight.

If you had an account on another forum, you should check if it led to any long jump records being broken somehow while they were on the way there.

Zero, with ref to your points about my comments, firstly, to a small degree I'm messing about but I also feel that when it comes to stepping outside certain accepted modes of thought Libcommers can indeed be reactionary assholes exactly like the conservatives you mention. Of course, one can never be sure that you're reading things properly but if you weigh up the comments or lack of them and past history you can come to a judgement of the meaning of the votes. In some cases I would rather get the downvotes because it affirms that I haven't stepped aboard the Good Ship Groupthink.
I believe they are sometimes used as a scoring system in a popularity contest. Some posters get a disproportionate number of upvotes and others a disproportionate number of down. Say something that people don't like and it may not be forgotten. I have a strong feeling that Sleeper is a victim of this.
I like the voting system but to read it in a straightforward way is naive and misleading.

There could be options like this:
- Enemy of the workers (enough votes on this would flag the comment for the admins)
- Disagree politically
- Agree politically
- What you are saying is simply not correct
- What you are saying is correct

Enemy of the workers :-)

Sleeper

It's a form of bullying, childish old school internet bullying, that should be removed from a socially, participant based forward looking website.

If libcom is just for the cultish then stick with it, and who knows the rest of us might hear about a little cult called libcom who all enslaved each other somewhere in london.

:)

Your conception is too grave. Try thinking of libcom as sitcom and the voting as canned laughter.

Damn, you just made me hate the up/down votes with that metaphor.

Your conception is too grave. Try thinking of libcom as sitcom and the voting as canned laughter.

In a last bid attempt to save this site from the grave, I recommend once again that the votes are made accountable so that readers and contributors would be able to follow patterns of voting behaviour, to establish the political/anti-political character of members. No more secret balloting!

Surely it all depends on who hits the button. I mean, if you are up voted by a twat then you're probably a twat. If you're down voted by Cooked or A Wotsit you probably ought to stop chatting shit.
If you're up voted or down voted by me just take no notice at all - I have peculiar ideas about voting plus I'm a knob.

Sometimes ups and downs can be open to interpretation.

For example the statement –
‘That prat Boris Johnson has just announced he will not stand for the leadership of the Tory Party’.
Would ‘up’ mean ‘Hooray!’ Does ‘down’ mean - Boo! Or who gives a toss?

I give a toss. No Boris? That's a fucking nightmare! Boris would have been a fantastic PM, a veritable laugh a minute. Anyone that doesn't think Boris is a comic genius is either a humourless dullard or a Prejudicial Tory basher.

When pressed and pressed on whether he'd like to one day be prime minister he eventually, after much mumbling, blustering and smirking said;

Well, if that particular ball was thrown out the back of the scrum, I suppose I'd pick it up and run with it

I rest my case.

Someone was on the telly in the last hour (I don’t know who, as they all look alike to me), and said that Boris would make a good warm-up act though he’d be a disaster as PM.

The BBC thinks Michael Gove acted like Brutus and shived simple trusting Boris in the back. Brutus and Boris sounds like a double act.

One thing Boris ain't is simple - I read a book by him a few years back and it made a Libcom thread about the dialectic look like Janet and John!

I was being ironic, and as a politician he is not trusting or trustworthy.

Nobody should ever mistake Boris Johnson for being stupid. He's highly intelligent, scheming, manipulative and dangerous. And I expect he's just biding his time because being leader of the Tory Party right now would be a poisoned chalice. His sense of humour, which is obviously an acquired taste, goes no way to mask his vile racism, sexism and just about every other nasty little bigotry which is expected from someone of his background.

The weird affliction that so many English people have of dropping to their knees in front of anybody with a posh accent baffles me and baffles me more and more the further and longer I am away fro the English aristocracy. It's nauseating and probably some kind of Stockholm Syndrome. And yes, I an a prejudiced Tory basher. I wouldn't shed a tear if they all just ran off a cliff.

Agree totally. I hate everything about that fucker and everything he stands for. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on, and that entire breed of fascist toffs that spewed him out.

Well obviously I'd rather they all jump of a cliff but why single out the Tories for such a marvellous spectacle? All of these people do the same job whatever colour flag they wave. They're all culpable of pulling the wool over the eyes of the public whist doing capital's bidding. Sure, as personalities I have MPs that I prefer and others that I dislike but it is not based in class or background. It's more likely to be whether they happen to get up my nose or if they make me laugh. Or maybe, as with Corbyn or my favourite ever MP Mathew Paris, they have a soothing soporific effect on the Webby brain cell. Politically it means nothing to me though.
And another thing - what a peculiar assumption you make Fleur in suggesting that I'm a sucker for a posh accent as though I haven't quite managed to throw of the yoke of subordinate feudalism. What a load of old(to borrow a splendid term from yourself) codswallop! You guys can swim about in your prejudice until the cows come home and I hope you have a fine day for it, just don't kid yourself there is anything creditable or worthy about it coz there isn't.

Sleeper

down (9) for that Noah.

Oops I meant up (12)

I'm confused.

Well obviously I'd rather they all jump of a cliff but why single out the Tories for such a marvellous spectacle? All of these people do the same job whatever colour flag they wave.

Politicians: there ain't never been a good one, I'm with you again Noah. If I was to nominate a Tory MP for the leadership contest, my choice is a lesser known one called Tim Laughton. I saw him on a TV documentary in which he went to live with a working class family. I respected him for that even if he was a bit hypocritical about their drug use.

Noah, I wasn't aiming at the Tories in particular, and yes of course party politics should be destroyed. Mainly I was expressing revulsion for the upper classes who fill their ranks, not that this prevents me from detesting Tories qua Tories even more that I loath the 'meritocratic' liberal plague of posh airheads who've slithered out of the corpse of old labour, yet I don't hate them any more than any given nationalist gimp I encounter, I've plenty of hatred to go round. It's just that, whatever flag they look like they're waving the rich/aristos make my skin crawl and I don't care if they're a product of their background, I hate their background more than I hate them and would like it destroyed along with all its products.

As we touched on briefly in our chat about him, although Matthew Paris claimed Emma Goldman as his hero, what was it about her that he thinks was so great given his fucked-up politics?

Fair enough, Fleur was and I made with the tarring brush. As for hating toffs, having met loads of them I find that generally they are less awful than new money types, goodie goodie class hopping liberals and my racist sister.
As for Matthew Parris and his love for Emma, that's easy, being a sort of libertarian liberal he fetishes the idea of freedom, sexual liberation etc and in an extremely misguided attempt to promote such ideas uses his privilege to become a parliamentarian. Or may he's just a dick.
Regardless of all that, I'd rather his hero was Emma than the usual Churchill/Ben options and besides, I don't like him coz of his politics but because of his manner and his skill as a radio presenter.

I dislike what the upper class stand for(despite the fact that I apparently long to suck off all of its representatives!) but no more than working and middle class liberalism. Now that really gets my goat!!!

Schmoopie #75

‘I'm with you again Noah. If I was to nominate a Tory MP for the leadership contest, my choice is a lesser known one called Tim Laughton. I saw him on a TV documentary in which he went to live with a working class family.’

He went to live with a working class family. Well, that was a major trauma. I wonder if he’s still finding it hard to fit back into his normal domestic arrangements. Still the cameras were there to record his suffering.

Noah Fence

And another thing - what a peculiar assumption you make Fleur in suggesting that I'm a sucker for a posh accent as though I haven't quite managed to throw of the yoke of subordinate feudalism.

I know you have beef with Fleur, but I didn't see the slightest shred of any suggestion that that comment was directed at you in any way

DP

Steven.

Noah Fence

And another thing - what a peculiar assumption you make Fleur in suggesting that I'm a sucker for a posh accent as though I haven't quite managed to throw of the yoke of subordinate feudalism.

I know you have beef with Fleur, but I didn't see the slightest shred of any suggestion that that comment was directed at you in any way

Steven. What are you on about. Firstly, I have no beef(was that an intentional choice of word? Please say it was!!!) with Fleur and I hope she has none with me. We're just two powerful personalities that have certain disagreements and like to throw our weight around a bit. In fact, I am a great admirer of hers and regularly agree with her and up vote her posts. Secondly, I reacted to her posts in exactly the same way as I would to any other poster that wrote such things. Did you not see how I used to plural in my posts to include Factvalue who is both my Libcom cohort and real life buddy?
Lastly, I see it as quite reasonable to assume after expressing my appreciation of certain of Boris' attributes and nobody else agreeing with me that Fleurs comment, though couched in general terms, was very much directed at me. Perhaps she could tell us if it was or wasn't?
Either way, I don't feel in the least offended by it. It's even possible that it's true and I'm misjudging myself though on this occasion that particular contingency seems a very remote one.

Firstly, I have no beef(was that an intentional choice of word? Please say it was!!!)

My feeling is no

Schmoopie

Firstly, I have no beef(was that an intentional choice of word? Please say it was!!!)

My feeling is no

Why such pessimism? You seem to forget the world is a wonderful place. It's the planet of the pun and I have full faith in the pun skills of the Libcommisar!!!

No Noah, not everything is all about you, I was making a comment on a thread on a subject someone else has brought up. It happens all the time. There's no need to make it personal and I have no wish to get into an argument about that prick.

Ouch! That's quite barbed but seeing as I'm not aware of who the prick is or what thread they are being a prick on you can surely see why I would surmise that in context of this thread you were referring to me?

Boris Johnson is the prick.

Ok, well I won't disagree with that but I'm left even more confused now than I was before. So who precisely was the posh accent lover that prompted you to make your comment then? I know that not everything is about me but some things are, right?
Either way, the last thing I want is a row with you or anyone else. Although I can see how some of my recent posting may indicate otherwise.

For the love of Dog, Noah, it's called conversation. You brought something up ie Boris Johnson, and I expressed my personal opinion on him and my opinions on the inane English toadying to aristos in general. As someone who has moved far away from that sort of shit, I find it even more incomprehensible than I did when I lived there. I don't have to have any one individual in mind to be irritated by a particular behaviour. You don't have to take it personally.

Ok, I get it, I misunderstood so hands up. I wasn't taking it personally as in offended though, I just thought it rather funny. But hey , fair enough. If it offers and excuse I've just been informed that I'm suffering from mild hepatic encephalopathy, possibly adding to my confusion.

Just to clarify, Auld-Bod brought up Boris Johnson. I don't think Auld-Bod is driven weak at the knees at the thought of Boris but he did put thoughts of the objectionable fucknozzle in my head. Not that the whole world hasn't been talking about him all week, so it wasn't hard to do. I expressed my opinion on him, which is very low. While talking about poshboys, I expressed my opinions on poshboys in general, given that I think that boiling in camel piss is too good for them, it's not hard for me to rise to that conversation. What's worse than the existence of the parasitical English aristocracy, in my opinion, is the way some people grovel and dribble about them, like absurd little toadies. If you knew me IRL, you would know how easy it is to set me off on how much I hate the English ruling class. This is why no-one I know discusses what has happened on Downton Abbey within my earshot anymore because they know they're about to get a Castro length speech from me on how I wish the bastards were all roasted on a spit by the scullery maids and fed to their fox hounds.

See, it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.

edit: crossposted and I'm sorry that you have HE. It must be really shitty and very frustrating.

Thanks for the empathy and it is shitty sometimes, like I'm losing myself kind of. Just got out of hospital today and have Lady Fence nursing me and if my transplant is successful all this shit will be history. Bring that fucking day on!!!

I hope you get a donor match soon.

good luck Noah

Yes, good luck from me too

Yes, Noah. Let's get it done, and beat feet to full recovery.

Aw, thanks guys. It's all a bit shit but after being sick for so long I'm mostly I'm just excited about getting fixed up and being well again. I've got a 98% chance of making it through the op and an 80% chance of the transplant being a success and having normal health again which are t bad odds if you think about it.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.

Good luck. I went through a lot of traumatic stuff a year ago and got through it. Looks like you have a good chance of doing the same

Sleeper #98

You appear to be a bit sad. Early to bed and you'll feel better in the morning.

Sleeper. I don't understand what you're saying or who it is you plan on killing. Can you explain?

The ppl voting him down.

If you can't cope with down votes on an internet forum, how on earth do you manage when people disagree with you in real life? Surely you don't want to kill all of them?

And weirdly (or perhaps not at all), it's not the first death threats uttered on and to libcom this week.

Ungrateful sod. I can only dream of that many down-votes these days. Come on someone, throw me some scraps already.

Khawaga

And weirdly (or perhaps not at all), it's not the first death threats uttered on and to libcom this week.

???

Yup, in the Brexit thread Jamal made a death threat. And apparently on social media. His targets were the admind and anyone who voted.

Noah Fence

Sleeper. I don't understand what you're saying or who it is you plan on killing. Can you explain?

I may be wrong but it seems to be libertarian communists who don't buy into his working class identity politics but instead take a more anti-capitalist class struggle position.

...and probably also people who try to bunk the train.

Sleeper

Come the revolution we are creating, not you, we'll probably have to kill you idiots along with the capitalists. No sweat.

right big man, you're banned, unless you e-mail an apology and retraction of your implied death threats.

Noah, very sorry to hear that, but I too would like to wish you best of luck, and hopefully eventually a speedy recovery!