capitalism makes me feel ill

I'd guess, though with different histories and some different reasons, everyone feels this way. Even when you feel you've been making some progress against this world, you get knocked back. Scary as it may seem, you can't

escape capitalism or at least maintain peace with it.

- you've just got to constantly try to experiment against your complicity with it (insofar as that's compatable with the need for money that's imposed on you), to question and break with old habits (like useless guilt).
Have you tried to voice youir criticisms of the groups and communes and all the other things you criticise in the above? Have you tried to initiate any activity which you and them might feel worth doing together? If you do so with the idea of not playing a superior role (or some other role) but of wanting to break out of your isolation, of wanting to communicate your critique and wanting to make progress in understanding the contradictions, of wanting to find out what others genuinely feel/think, rather than how they think they ought to feel/think (ie the party line, the commune line, the dominant capitalist line), with the idea of not being afraid to make mistakes, of trying to overcome indifference or anxiety, you might find bit by bit something changes in your relation to the world and to people. Sure, it's a Sysyphian task, the rock always rolls back, particularly in possibly the worst country in the world when it comes to class struggle, but you have to constantly pick yourself up, dust yourself down and start all over again (I do this, and I'd guess that those who don't want to just accept things and themselves as they are also do it). But capitalism makes everyone sick - you just have to keep on struggling, never give up and stop having the fantasy that you can escape the misery or make your peace with it.

Hope this isn't too banal. Or patronising. When people ask for advice I try to give it, but how useful it is, whether it connects, is another matter.

A lot of people have felt this way and we've had a few threads similar to this in the past. I hope writing this out has made you feel better, it can be very isolating and that is one advantage of the internet it can make it easier to make connections and to contact like-minded people. I imagine you've looked around for groups to join and not found any. This gives you the choice of contributing long-distance to a project or trying to set up a group.

Anti-psychiatry isn't well-respected on this board. Depression is more about your response to society than society itself. It sounds to me like you're turning the anger on yourself because you haven't got an outlet. A lot of life under capitalism is shit but allowing it to make you hate your life is just giving in to alienation. If you don't want to buy consumer stuff then don't buy it. use your money for things you want/like/find useful. Use some cash (or even better the work copier) to print pamphlets like the ones at http://www.prole.info/.

You might also want to have a read of the issues of Processed World that are archived here on libcom. They were also based in your area as well I think.

If you really fancy it you could start writing news for libcom. You said you like writing so it might be a good start. There is a hell of a lot going on in the world and a lot of it isn't publicised, so that might be a good way to help.

Just saw that you hate the counter-culture; did you ever see these texts from the Bay Area? Poverty of Berkeley Life ,(from 1983) and the Poverty of Hip life and Communes and Collectives from the early 70s. Things have probably got considerably worse since then, but there are still a lot of interesting things in all that stuff.

I'm feeling exactly the same way.

I have my own experiences to share, I'm desperate to have someone listen to me.

I've been lurking for a while but not posting because I've been scared of being flamed to hell.

See vonn, this is one advantage of the internet, you can meet like-minded people.

Ok, I'm gonna give it a try...

I'm 18 years old, I live in the Dominican Republic. I never knew my father. I have no brothers or sisters. My mom works in "human resources", managing the exploitation of workers. I don't have my high school diploma yet. I live in an apartment in a gated community with my mom and my grandmother, and also a live-in maid who sometimes cooks but mostly takes care of my grandmother.

I went to a school that was apparently a hot-spot for "radical" or "alternative" thinking. There was a poster which read: "there was one who was going to be a prophet, but he settled for bourgeois". I had a teacher in the tenth grade who had us read Chomsky and compare it with The Matrix.

He was part of a "revolutionary organization". I slowly joined it. In the twelvth grade I had a German teacher who taught "Critical History of the West" and had been a self-described "Frankfurt hippie" who was there when Adorno called the cops on the students.

I have an uncle who recently told me he had been "close to the events of May '68".

Recently, the tenth grade teacher that got me involved in his organization was expelled from it because he had been preaching "free love" to get laid, while hiding it from his girlfriend who was also in the organization.

I found the blog of another group here, linked to either the ICC or the Internationalist Communist Group, which said that the organization I was in belonged to the "left-wing of capital".

I finally cracked and quit the organization. I visited my family in Florida for the holidays, and was totally shocked by the plastic suburban lifestyle they live. My cousin mocked me and asked if I was a socialist because I was "lazy and wanted everything to be free".

I wrote to Noam Chomsky, he told me there are no answers, we just have to try different paths and find a way to go on.

Now I'm scared of going outside, scared of all the ugliness that exists in the world, knowing that I can't end capitalism alone, but worrying that everything ends up being recuperated.

The group linked to the ICC or the Internationalist Communist Group suggested that I was a proletarian. The only job I've ever had was a very brief stint at a supermarket, I wanted to distract myself after a rocky relationship with a girl. I didn't do it because I needed the money.

My mom, who manages the exploitation of workers, hasn't forced me to get a job yet, hasn't forced me to do anything. I'm just sittting here, vegetating all the time.

Am I a proletarian? Or am I petty-bourgeois scum? What do I do? Do I just kill myself like Guy Debord did in the end?

Vonn

My mom, who manages the exploitation of workers, hasn't forced me to get a job yet, hasn't forced me to do anything. I'm just sittting here, vegetating all the time.

Am I a proletarian? Or am I petty-bourgeois scum? What do I do? Do I just kill myself like Guy Debord did in the end?

Buck up, comrade, you've got a lot of life ahead of ya!

Debord killed himself because he was old and sick and curmudgeonly to the end. He also lived through exciting and interesting times, and spent much of his life analyzing the world. Although he might have denied it, I bet he even had some fun in his day.

As for your class position, I'd take a look at this piece: http://libcom.org/library/notes-class. It is important to see class not as something fixed or psychological, but instead as a social relation.

You'll find some like-minded folks in DR eventually. In the meantime, this forum is a good place to learn and interact with some fine folks. It looks like you've progressed really far already with your politics. Shit, when I was 18 I didn't do much more than smoke weed, listen to Crass and lurk the occasional Food Not Bombs table.

Don't worry about your mother, we can't help our parents.
You need to get out of the house. Get a job, study, go to the library, distribute propaganda, go for a swim. Political action can be a part of your life and should be a positive one, but it can't replace it. Don't blame yourself for what you have, just make sure you use it.

I so understand on the capitalism makes me feel ill, comment...I too feel the same way, there is some good news, the teachers and principals are now starting to change the education system, to teach Critical thinking and problem solving. and if I understand you....you will understand what this will mean. If the Education system changes so that people KNOW HOW to THINK...not What to think....they will be working at jobs they love, they will be working for the JOY of it! This will rid the world of money. This will end the world of Capitalism. A world full of thinking people, that when they know Critical thinking and problem solving, they will understand What the Golden Rule means...they will know how to self manage themselves, they will be able to reason, and become emotionaly intellegent. They will become a sociey of problem solvers.

It is so very sad to be living in a capitalistic world...where your Freedom is taken away, the freedom to live where and how you want. The freedom to not participate in capitalism...but our freedom of choice has been taken away, as the government is fighting to save capitalism not the people. They are not changing with society and in doing so, causing crimes against humanity, by the destruction of our Environment, that which provides us with Air, Water and Food, which we can not live without....and we destroy this.....for money....when money does nothing but hurt us. It is so Insane...that I can understand a society that allows this to go one...but ALL Societies are letting this occur....and are doing what seems nothing....as it is still occuring...so YES Alone, Scared and Angry that we are still living like this...when all politics, governments, systems of so called justice, are all Man made and can and should be changed....this is in our power...but it is not done. We the people can decide how to live...if money was not a factor...would any sane society CHOOSE to live this way and treat our world this way???

Why would we Choose to live this way? Why wouldn't we choose another way?

We have all the technology and knowlege to fix all the worlds environmental and energy problems...we have that now...Why are we not using them??

There is no profit in it.....and if we let our governments base their decisions on that....it is a huge Crime. We need to do what we need to do to save the children, to save the planet, to save humanity.

I must say i am tired of this bullshit with "It's how you respond to stuff", this is what psychologists use to burden the people even more. i know someone who was emotionally abused and to a degree physically abused by people in his family and the psychologist just gave him shit like "don't focus on that etc" and this placing all the responsibility on the person who takes the shit really gives this victim more burden. it's f***ed up. yeah, you can lie to yourself and say stuff in your head to "reduce the stress" or reduce the degree of sh** in the way you feel but the truth is the more sh** you take the more likely you will be feeling like sh**. if this sh** called capitalism didn't come with its greedy tentacles and setting people against each other, being arrogant, racist, selfish, hypocrite and what is the worst in the world, people would feel much happier. it's a fact that nature makes us happy, even f*****ing psychiatrists and doctors recognised this and it's a fact that when we smile to people we are happier and when we have positive interactions with people we are much happier. does anybody see many real smiles in the capitalist world?don't think so and who says he does is a f**ing liar and he is a hypocrite himself. so yeah you can try to "minimise" the crap and keep living in this cancer-causing society full of sh** and go from 100% unhappy to 80% unhappy or you get get out of this f*** ing cancer and plague and get the chance to be at least 90% happy, although in the arms of nature and with no evil coming from money chasing greedy bastards and with only pure friendly relationships with people around and praying i think there's a big possibility to be 100% happy.
also, don't forget where capitalism started- in the evil disgusting UK, who , based on fact are the nation that brought the biggest evils in the world:they took slaves from africa, exploited them to make billions, they killed the native americans and took their land, they stole from india and pakistan and nowadays they are still practising the most disgusting form of racism and stepping on other nations, but in a more subtle way that is at least as disgusting.n the UK everything is based on hypocrisy:you see black policemen, but when black women see their english doctor, are told they have cancer, but are sent home& told "to come back in 6 months", just because the disgusting English doctor doesn't like blacks-the dying old black lady told me thisanother not-crappy-british person told me she asked for directions in leeds and the guy working at the coach station told her there are no buses going to marriott and she has to walk 20 minutes through the rain, then guess what 4 busses outside were going to marriott, another not-crappy-british person asked the nasty english guy working at heathrow how to get to marriott, as she didn't have much money and guess what?he said theres no free bus and there she found it when she went outside:free bus taking people to marriott and other hotels. the list goes on and on:indian guys at mcdonalds being shouted at "hey what are you?bengali?go back to your country!" and italians, greeks and spanish working for low salaries in coffee shops or hair salons only to be told by the disgusting british craps "go back to your country", while the same british craps refuse to work because they're "too fat" and too lazy and get money from the government, made from the taxes applied to poor immigrants who already have small payanother foreigner asked the police for help in the park after being attacked and shouted at "get back to your country" the answer he got was "so what do you want me to do?you don't know how to call the police on the phone in your country", but this foreigner wouldn't' take that crap and he told the police crappicer :"It's not about my country and what do you mean what do you want me to do?you don't know what is your job?you better come and find this guy" so the dirtbag complied, only to keep threatening "Im gonna have to take all your info, where you live bla bla", although when he had to just do his job, he put his disgusting racism first saying "so what do you want me to do?you don't know how to call the police on the phone in your country?", but the foreigner asked him"so since you haven't found the guy, am i still obliged to ?" and the crappycer had to admit that no he didn't have to. so the guy said "OK, thank you, bye". talk about being treated with racism by police when you're a victim and then treated like a criminal when you practically had to push the crappycer to do his work because he was more focused on being a racist. DISSSSGUSTING!

but guess what god is not sleeping and 50% of british people die of cancer

The world is a mucky place. To be honest I think capitalism is a misdirected term to describe it. The important thing is to stay creative doing whatever you can do. Be creative with your thoughts, your perceptions of others, your desires, even the route you take to get home. It's too easy to fall into a rut that is born from an anti-capitalist outlook. Remember that life is much bigger than capitalism. Capitalism is only the straight jacket it tries to put onto life. We might all seem like chickens with our heads cut off sometimes but people are all trying, everyone, even if some of them are bad eggs looking to rob a granny and punch a child. You can't defeat a system by yourself so you have to go along with it to some degree. But remember that every action begets a reaction... so act when you feel something good. We're all in this together.

Hi Vonn I like that you posted spot on midnight. That means you're either a bot or you have something important to say. Fuck the ICC off and become an anarchist - http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/index.html

Vonn

Ok, I'm gonna give it a try...

I'm 18 years old, I live in the Dominican Republic. I never knew my father. I have no brothers or sisters. My mom works in "human resources", managing the exploitation of workers. I don't have my high school diploma yet. I live in an apartment in a gated community with my mom and my grandmother, and also a live-in maid who sometimes cooks but mostly takes care of my grandmother.

I went to a school that was apparently a hot-spot for "radical" or "alternative" thinking. There was a poster which read: "there was one who was going to be a prophet, but he settled for bourgeois". I had a teacher in the tenth grade who had us read Chomsky and compare it with The Matrix.

He was part of a "revolutionary organization". I slowly joined it. In the twelvth grade I had a German teacher who taught "Critical History of the West" and had been a self-described "Frankfurt hippie" who was there when Adorno called the cops on the students.

I have an uncle who recently told me he had been "close to the events of May '68".

Recently, the tenth grade teacher that got me involved in his organization was expelled from it because he had been preaching "free love" to get laid, while hiding it from his girlfriend who was also in the organization.

I found the blog of another group here, linked to either the ICC or the Internationalist Communist Group, which said that the organization I was in belonged to the "left-wing of capital".

I finally cracked and quit the organization. I visited my family in Florida for the holidays, and was totally shocked by the plastic suburban lifestyle they live. My cousin mocked me and asked if I was a socialist because I was "lazy and wanted everything to be free".

I wrote to Noam Chomsky, he told me there are no answers, we just have to try different paths and find a way to go on.

Now I'm scared of going outside, scared of all the ugliness that exists in the world, knowing that I can't end capitalism alone, but worrying that everything ends up being recuperated.

The group linked to the ICC or the Internationalist Communist Group suggested that I was a proletarian. The only job I've ever had was a very brief stint at a supermarket, I wanted to distract myself after a rocky relationship with a girl. I didn't do it because I needed the money.

My mom, who manages the exploitation of workers, hasn't forced me to get a job yet, hasn't forced me to do anything. I'm just sittting here, vegetating all the time.

Am I a proletarian? Or am I petty-bourgeois scum? What do I do? Do I just kill myself like Guy Debord did in the end?

I feel the same way quite often, but just wanted to say that I don't think we should feel guilt for living under capitalism and having to go along with it individually, and also that we do all deserve to be happy, and should focus on our own happiness and getting enjoyment out of life, one because it makes life a lot better for us and two because happy people tend to make others happy also so it makes life better for all of us, so that is consistent with the aspirations of anarchist communism.

If that means we need to take our minds away from capitalism every now and then then we should do that. I don't think capitalism, authority and hierarchy have conquered all aspects of living and being human, we can still be ourselves, enjoy things we like doing and enjoy social relationships & interaction, life still has a lot to offer us and we need to remind ourselves of that.