how do yous deal with class enemies on an individual basis? Some people close to me are either already in jobs that places them in antagonistic positions to the working class or have ambitions to be
(small business owner, foreman, police etc.)
In general, I try to separate the personal from the political in my relationships. I've got lots of family who are petit-bourgeois and others who are the worst sort of Republican douche-bags. But for the sake of family gatherings, I try to keep it down - and some of them are actually nice people despite their politics or economic position.
That said, I have a racist cop uncle who, after he kept sending me horribly racist emails, I cut him out - and told him as much. So, yeah, there is a line there.
I also think there's something to be said for being able to interact with and relate to non-lefties. For better or worse, family's a pretty good place to start.
how do yous deal with class enemies on an individual basis? Some people close to me are either already in jobs that places them in antagonistic positions to the working class or have ambitions to be
(small business owner, foreman, police etc.)
I had a brother-in-law who was very religious and talked about it a lot, disliked homosexuals intensely and was always going on about it, but liked Elton John's music though couldn't reconcile this with being anti-gay, and was a great supporter of the Labour Party. He also believed passionately in making his feelings known, and loved to argue. Though "love" isn't somehow the right word.
So, in the beginning we used to argue a lot. Things would quickly get nasty and embarrassingly unpleasant. Other people present at these battles learned not to join in. You'd only be shouted down. I was stupid about this and was slow to realise the pointlessness of continuing these arguments which never went anywhere, and never changed anyone's viewpoint. Eventually I learned to shut up like everyone else.
Was this the right thing to do? I don't know. But with some people it appears there's no point in discussion, and that's that!
The trouble is I have wondered from time to time whether I am not such a person myself!
how do yous deal with class enemies on an individual basis? Some people close to me are either already in jobs that places them in antagonistic positions to the working class or have ambitions to be
(small business owner, foreman, police etc.)
I think Chilli and jojo hit on the right number- We can't go through life having it out with every single person with bad politics or even an antagonistic class position though we don't have to put up with someone so egregious and public with their views that it ruins our day.
I bet Chilli iced out his uncle because he was an asshole who couldn't take a hint.
I'm going through an unpleasant thing with my sister at the moment who is a very caring, loving and generous person on one hand but on the other exhibits almost psychopathic traits when it comes to migrants and asylum seekers. I won't go into detail but it's pretty extreme stuff. I've simply told her how upsetting I find her views and explained why. I'm now gonna leave it at that.
Anger towards the ruling class and class traitors is often justifiable but the way we deal with it must not have a detrimental effect on how we ourselves feel. I've been super angry for a while and have become very aggressive - I've upset people around me with this, have alienated people from my point of view politically and in general made things worse in the world rather than better. In particular, I've been very confrontational with cops and have put myself and others in danger a number of times. All of this has made me very bitter and cynical which gives capital an even stronger hand against me than it already has. My attempts to change my behaviour and attitude have rewarded me with great results. I feel I can now be happier and more effective.
I guess things have to be taken on a case by case basis. Despite what I've said above I still believe that aggression, even violence are sometimes necessary but for my own sake I only want to go that way if there is no other.
I bet Chilli iced out his uncle because he was an asshole who couldn't take a hint.
Booze, I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I'm afraid I probably put up with more than I should have because he gave me a yearly get out of jail free card. Plus, he's a bit of a sad dude, so I was kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt, so my email probably hit him pretty hard. He did respond with - and I quote - "One of my best friends is from Iran..."
Anyway, I was thinking about the OP. With my right-wing cousins, I will sometimes try to plant a seed, but mostly I just make it clear that if they have problems at work - despite our political differences - I'm there to offer advice and support in any way I can.
Yeah, I think we've got away slightly from vicent's original question, which was how we deal with class enemies, rather than people with bad opinions that we disagree with.
As far as the latter go, (and I'm thinking of my own family here) they often have fairly shit opinions about stuff, but it's based on stuff that they've only read about in the papers. My dad, for instance, thinks that London has a mosque on every corner and that whole areas of it are run according to sharia law. But then the only newspaper he reads is the Daily Mail that the guy next door drops round after he's read it. He's open to reason though (he hasn't been to London since the 70s, after all, and I live there), and I know that there's been times in his life when he's stood up to racist opinions a bit closer to home.
As far as actual class enemies go (cops and so on), I wouldn't have them in my circle, and if it turns out (as it has done in the past) that someone in a social gathering I'm at is a cop, I would leave.
In general I keep my opinions to myself if the person is more towards the liberal end of things. FOr example someone who's running a buy to let portfolio and expecting to make a monthly profit as well as getting a free house off someone else's back I'd either point out what a shitty thing they're doing or not waste breath on them, but if someone was renting out a room in their house I'd not be too bothered.
I'm not sure if I'd go as far as to leave a social gathering if a cop was present but I wouldn't socialise with one.
I think if you've set your stall out and you're willing to defend your beliefs then that's a good start, you don't need to fight every batle.
I think where it's pre-existing relationships then I'll let sleeping dogs lie, but I'm not going to make friends with a boss, even though a few good friends keep getting promoted...
I actually interviewed for a post with supervisory tasks, but I didn't get shortlisted so no need to make a stand there (I think I'd have just been scheduling part timers)
In general, I try to separate
In general, I try to separate the personal from the political in my relationships. I've got lots of family who are petit-bourgeois and others who are the worst sort of Republican douche-bags. But for the sake of family gatherings, I try to keep it down - and some of them are actually nice people despite their politics or economic position.
That said, I have a racist cop uncle who, after he kept sending me horribly racist emails, I cut him out - and told him as much. So, yeah, there is a line there.
I also think there's something to be said for being able to interact with and relate to non-lefties. For better or worse, family's a pretty good place to start.
vicent wrote: how do yous
vicent
I had a brother-in-law who was very religious and talked about it a lot, disliked homosexuals intensely and was always going on about it, but liked Elton John's music though couldn't reconcile this with being anti-gay, and was a great supporter of the Labour Party. He also believed passionately in making his feelings known, and loved to argue. Though "love" isn't somehow the right word.
So, in the beginning we used to argue a lot. Things would quickly get nasty and embarrassingly unpleasant. Other people present at these battles learned not to join in. You'd only be shouted down. I was stupid about this and was slow to realise the pointlessness of continuing these arguments which never went anywhere, and never changed anyone's viewpoint. Eventually I learned to shut up like everyone else.
Was this the right thing to do? I don't know. But with some people it appears there's no point in discussion, and that's that!
The trouble is I have wondered from time to time whether I am not such a person myself!
vicent wrote: how do yous
vicent
I think Chilli and jojo hit on the right number- We can't go through life having it out with every single person with bad politics or even an antagonistic class position though we don't have to put up with someone so egregious and public with their views that it ruins our day.
I bet Chilli iced out his uncle because he was an asshole who couldn't take a hint.
I'm going through an
I'm going through an unpleasant thing with my sister at the moment who is a very caring, loving and generous person on one hand but on the other exhibits almost psychopathic traits when it comes to migrants and asylum seekers. I won't go into detail but it's pretty extreme stuff. I've simply told her how upsetting I find her views and explained why. I'm now gonna leave it at that.
Anger towards the ruling class and class traitors is often justifiable but the way we deal with it must not have a detrimental effect on how we ourselves feel. I've been super angry for a while and have become very aggressive - I've upset people around me with this, have alienated people from my point of view politically and in general made things worse in the world rather than better. In particular, I've been very confrontational with cops and have put myself and others in danger a number of times. All of this has made me very bitter and cynical which gives capital an even stronger hand against me than it already has. My attempts to change my behaviour and attitude have rewarded me with great results. I feel I can now be happier and more effective.
I guess things have to be taken on a case by case basis. Despite what I've said above I still believe that aggression, even violence are sometimes necessary but for my own sake I only want to go that way if there is no other.
boozemonarchy wrote: I bet
boozemonarchy
Booze, I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I'm afraid I probably put up with more than I should have because he gave me a yearly get out of jail free card. Plus, he's a bit of a sad dude, so I was kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt, so my email probably hit him pretty hard. He did respond with - and I quote - "One of my best friends is from Iran..."
Anyway, I was thinking about the OP. With my right-wing cousins, I will sometimes try to plant a seed, but mostly I just make it clear that if they have problems at work - despite our political differences - I'm there to offer advice and support in any way I can.
Yeah, I think we've got away
Yeah, I think we've got away slightly from vicent's original question, which was how we deal with class enemies, rather than people with bad opinions that we disagree with.
As far as the latter go, (and I'm thinking of my own family here) they often have fairly shit opinions about stuff, but it's based on stuff that they've only read about in the papers. My dad, for instance, thinks that London has a mosque on every corner and that whole areas of it are run according to sharia law. But then the only newspaper he reads is the Daily Mail that the guy next door drops round after he's read it. He's open to reason though (he hasn't been to London since the 70s, after all, and I live there), and I know that there's been times in his life when he's stood up to racist opinions a bit closer to home.
As far as actual class enemies go (cops and so on), I wouldn't have them in my circle, and if it turns out (as it has done in the past) that someone in a social gathering I'm at is a cop, I would leave.
In general I keep my opinions
In general I keep my opinions to myself if the person is more towards the liberal end of things. FOr example someone who's running a buy to let portfolio and expecting to make a monthly profit as well as getting a free house off someone else's back I'd either point out what a shitty thing they're doing or not waste breath on them, but if someone was renting out a room in their house I'd not be too bothered.
I'm not sure if I'd go as far as to leave a social gathering if a cop was present but I wouldn't socialise with one.
I think if you've set your stall out and you're willing to defend your beliefs then that's a good start, you don't need to fight every batle.
I think where it's pre-existing relationships then I'll let sleeping dogs lie, but I'm not going to make friends with a boss, even though a few good friends keep getting promoted...
I actually interviewed for a post with supervisory tasks, but I didn't get shortlisted so no need to make a stand there (I think I'd have just been scheduling part timers)