La Esperanto-fadeno - Esperanto thread

Saluton kara amik',

mi volonte diskutos kun vi.

:)

Saluti amiko , bon maten. :mrt:

(p.s., atleast I tried, Serge...can't find a phrase /greeting dictionary, heh, heh.) :D

curses foiled again.

You're one hell of a cultured, all round rennaisance bloke, ain't ya? Good morning, fellow worker. :D :D :D

Serge Forward

Saluton amikon!

Mi jam havas ideon kiu vi vi estas... De kiu mondoparto estas vi? Kaj cxu vi povus diri ion pri la anarkiisma movado en via lando... au eble ion pri la nuntempa novagxo sociala?

Estas bone ke vi scias kiu mi estas.

Nu anarkiisma movado en mia lando estas iom komplika. Pro la fakto ke la lando uzas plurajn lingvojn gxi havas ankau plurajn anarkiismajn kulturojn. La suda kulturo kiu estas iom komparebla kun la anarkiismo en sudaj landoj kaj la norda kulturo kiu dum la lastaj jaroj kunlaboras pli kun komunistoj aux pli bone marksistaj ideoj gxis la punkto kie la vojoj disigas. Avantagxo estas ke la grupo estas pli forta kaj signifo plena. Tamen kaj bedauxrinde la anarkiisma scenejo ne estas forta kaj suferas tro pri idiotoj kiuj metas pinglon tra la nazo kaj nomas sin anarkiistoj sed en la kapo havas nur malplenan truon.

JieS

JieS, sonas tre simila al la scenejo tien.

Tamen:

kiuj metas pinglon tra la nazo

:confused:

Parenteze, mi ne parolas Esparanto tre bone, por ke bedauxri cxu mi diras sensencajxo.

Serge Forward

There are also plenty of 'anarchists' who think its enough to have a ring through their nose while having an empty head.

Ah! :D

Saluton madashell! Estas bone, scii ke estas alia(j) esperanto-parolanto(j) en LibCom kiu(j), kiel mi, parolas E-on cxe la miznivelo. Mi partoprenos kurson cxi-somere, do, vivu la nigra/rugxa/verda stel'!

Hey madashell! It's good to know that there are other Esperanto speaker(s) in LibCom who, like me, speak Esperanto at a mid-level. I will take part in a course this summer, so, long live the black/red/green star!

I just found out that my father's cousins speak Esperanto and actually attend international conventions about it throughout the year.. ? Where can I learn more about it? Any decent links?

aketus

I just found out that my father's cousins speak Esperanto and actually attend international conventions about it throughout the year.. ? Where can I learn more about it? Any decent links?

\\

Here < http://www.esperanto.net/info/index_en.html >

kisjoj JieS

Serge Forward

[i]

Bonvenon! Alia huligano... kaj se mi ne eraras, el la lando de biero kaj terpomfritajxoj kun majonezo, cxu ne!

Jes evidente vi pravas.Mi unue volis met mian nomon laux esperanta aspekto, kaj tiam devas esti Jo So sed fine mi prenis la nederlandlingva Ji eS.

amike

Cool. These were french relatives though :) but that's cool info! Cheers!

JieS

aketus

I just found out that my father's cousins speak Esperanto and actually attend international conventions about it throughout the year.. ? Where can I learn more about it? Any decent links?

\\

Here < http://www.esperanto.net/info/index_en.html >

kisjoj JieS

This is as good a place as any to start. But do note that www.esperanto.net is a site run by the Universal Esperanto Association (UEA), which is by far the largest Esperanto organization, but not the most progressive. UEA sites may not contain much information about the World Anational Association, SAT (in Esperanto: Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda), whose members are more to the left politically, though it is much smaller than the UEA.

See: http://www.uea.org and http://satesperanto.free.fr/

Not too long ago I wrote an introductory text about Esperanto, which also contains a few links:

http://home.arcor.de/gmickle/pf/4baza%2008b%20en.pdf

There is also some information on SAT-related topics in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennacieca_Asocio_Tutmonda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Lanti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anationalism

Wikipedia is generally not a bad place to start looking for information about Esperanto matters.

Although the UEA is not reactionary through and through, and much of the information it provides is perfectly acceptable, it has to be said that some of its political positions disturbingly resemble ones that are characteristic of the (European) "New Right". I have written a polemical article on one controversy (whether Esperanto could conceivably protect "cultural diversity", as claimed by many UEA acitivists and an argument you are likely to encounter on websites associated with the UEA):

http://home.arcor.de/gmickle/skk/92kuldiv_en.html

Gary

Dankon por tio, Serge! Tre interese estas por mi - mi jam legis pri Eroshenko per "Kontakto", sed mi ne sciis ke li estis anarkiisto - do, ege dankon!

can someone explain to me how people are representing the Esperanto alphabet on screen? Is the x in this - cxu - representing the other 'ch' sounding one?

:confused:

Interesega diskuto kiun mi jxus trovis. Kiel Irlanda anarkiisma Esperanto-parolanto kiu volas kreskigi la Esperantan movadon cxi tien, mi min demandas cxu estas aliaj irlandaj samideanoj kiuj utiligas Libcom?

Alcjo

I've just come across this interesting thread. As an Irish esperanto speaking anarchist who wants to build an esperanto movement herem I was wondering wheter there were other Irish esperantists using Libcom.

I have my doubts about Esperanto--are there any "native" speakers those who have learned it from childhood and posess "insinctive" native competence, and if there were, would the grammar begin to deviate from Zamenhoff's plan for it?It is not"logical" for languages to have grammatical gender and irregular verbs etc. but most natural languages do,so maybe "logic" doen't apply to language.The exception to this seems to be languages like Turkish which have no formal grammatical gender and transparent,regular inflexions and of course a sizeable number of native speakers.Esperanto seems suspiciously like a regularised Romance language.

Doesn't "logic" apply to whatever humans want to apply it to?

In answer to your question, there is a small number of native esperanto speakers, usually children of couples whos only common language is esperanto, and they raise the child trilingually.

Jes!!

Oh jes jes jes Serge!

In yer dreams mate ;)

So what would be the best way to start learning esperanto? Is there any literature you would recommend? Being fluent in English and German, and with a good understanding of Spanish, Italian and French, I can guess at most phrases, but would like to be more proficient.

Any tipps?

i learned through lernu.net, which i found to be really good.

Completed my first lesson today, yet to see the marked results.

Good for you, Lab Rat!

ut aiebam alibi, ratio linguae "Esperanto" non exstat. oportet vobis omnibus linguam iam universalem discere.

Esperanto and Anarchism

http://informabulteno.wordpress.com/

Gekamaradoj,
Ĉu iu volas traduki anarkiistajn tekstojn?

http://internationalworkersassociation.blogspot.com/2010/11/anarkio-03-novembro-2010.html

Kion precize vi volas tradukita? Ĉu la tutan ekzempleron?

Serge Forward

petey

ut aiebam alibi, ratio linguae "Esperanto" non exstat. oportet vobis omnibus linguam iam universalem discere.

Ne estu tia kaco.

tua verba intellegere nequeo quod non in lingua aliqua scribuntur, mentula.

niaj francoj gekamaradoj sendis maljunan tekston:

http://internationalworkersassociation.blogspot.com/2010/12/la-pensaj-kotizoj-vera-malvera-problemo.html

Punkan saluton el Rusio!! Hej hula!!))

Upvotes for that sensible Lazlo fellow

I learnt Esperanto on a postal course, one lesson every week, back in the early 1990s. Not sure if they still do it, but imo it was good. Forgotten almost all now.

Saluton kamaradoj. Mi estas komencanto de la internacia lingvo kaj la anarkia-movado. Thought I'd throw that one out there. Quite glad to have found some anarcho-esperantists. :)

(Double post)

Per lernu, sinjoro (aux sinjorino). Estas tre bona pagxaro por lerni miaopinie. Mia sola plendo pri lernu estas ke la pagxaro sxajnas ke gxi kreintis en la jaro 1990.

Mi certe memoros tion kamarado :) Mi dankas vin por via afableco.

Saluton, Novo, kaj bonvenon!

Efektive vi jam tre bone parolas!

Cxu vi jam konas la organizon SAT? Gxi ne estas nur anarkiista sed estas en gxi multaj bonaj kompanoj. Bonvole iom esploru gxin. http://satesperanto.org/

Parenteze, en kiu lando (au sxtato/urbo) vi logxas?

I don't want to spoil the party here, but Esperanto has a number of problems. It has sexism built into the language (e.g. male is the default, female is derived from male via a suffix) and it has an obtuse orthography (it's quite easy to construct a language which uses a subset of the standard 26-letter Latin alphabet with no diacritics or digraphs, and many of Esperanto's competitors do this.)

My mind has been blown! I'd never thought that Esperanto might fall short of perfection before. I imagine that you of course only speak languages which have overcome gender, or whose orthography is beyond comparison.

I'm fascinated to hear that Esperanto has competitors. Can you point me towards any publishing houses currently publishing books in those languages? Don't have to be originals, I'll settle for translations, and 100 books in print seems like a reasonable request. How about radio shows? Conventions? Libertarian communist message boards where they post? T-shirts?

Congrats on your first post. While you're here, why don't you introduce yourself on the introductions thread, and talk about what drew you to a libertarian communist board?

That isn't my first post. I've posted here before, a few times over the last few months, but I don't post often.

I'm not demanding perfection from Esperanto, nor am I claiming that English or any natural language is superior to it. However, I am arguing that Esperanto isn't well suited to be an international auxiliary language, which is the purpose it was created for. And although some people argue that English should become an international auxiliary language (and they're wrong), English wasn't created to be an international auxiliary language in the first place.

The problems I listed aren't the only problems with Esperanto. There's a large set of problems that take the form of grammatical constructions that are plainly superfluous when one observes how many natural languages, even the European languages that Esperanto used as its base, lack them. Noun-adjective agreement isn't present in English. The adjective/adverb distinction isn't present in German. The accusative case isn't present in half the major languages of Europe. Definite articles aren't present in the Slavic languages. Plural suffixes aren't present in most East Asian languages. A good international language would avoid these constructions, or at least make them optional.

Against Rich Supremacy

That isn't my first post. I've posted here before, a few times over the last few months, but I don't post often.

I'm not demanding perfection from Esperanto, nor am I claiming that English or any natural language is superior to it. However, I am arguing that Esperanto isn't well suited to be an international auxiliary language, which is the purpose it was created for. And although some people argue that English should become an international auxiliary language (and they're wrong), English wasn't created to be an international auxiliary language in the first place.

The problems I listed aren't the only problems with Esperanto. There's a large set of problems that take the form of grammatical constructions that are plainly superfluous when one observes how many natural languages, even the European languages that Esperanto used as its base, lack them. Noun-adjective agreement isn't present in English. The adjective/adverb distinction isn't present in German. The accusative case isn't present in half the major languages of Europe. Definite articles aren't present in the Slavic languages. Plural suffixes aren't present in most East Asian languages. A good international language would avoid these constructions, or at least make them optional.

Any problem you can name has been solved by one of Esperanto's many thousands of "competitors". Yet if you name a topic, I can find a current magazine or periodical about it in Esperanto. Can you find anything from any of those competitors that is about anything other than how cool their language is?

There are bands producing hip-hop, rock, folk, techno, jazz, etc. in Esperanto, which implies a market. Is there any music produced in any of its "competitors" (aside from a DJ I know of who made some ironic dance tunes in a long-dead spin-off of Esperanto)?

There are plenty of different a priori ideas about what an international language would avoid or include. There are plenty of different language projects reflecting these theories. If you can pick one, and get 100 people from a variety of countries speaking it and using it for anything besides talking about their cool language project, then maybe you can make your case.

I'll tell you what, I challenged you for 100 books currently in print from one of Esperanto's "competitors", I'll settle for 100 books in 50 different "competitor languages". You don't have to type them all out, links to publishers would be fine.

Or maybe we have very different definitions of competition?

Seriously if all you're doing here is to to try to score points on other people than you're the very definition of an internet troll and not worth engaging. Thanks for trying though!

This is ridiculous. I'm trying to raise legitimate concerns, not "score points." Yet you are trying to deflect these concerns by turning this into a numbers game. This might be a valid argument if Esperanto had already become the international auxiliary language, or was close to doing so. However, even by the highest estimates of its number of speakers, it's nowhere near there.

Esperanto simultaneously refuses to reform its obvious problems and uses its big-fish-in-small-pond status to overshadow other, better designed IALs, as exemplified in the attitude you've expressed here. If an IAL is even possible, Esperanto is an obstacle to it.

Against Rich Supremacy

This is ridiculous. I'm trying to raise legitimate concerns, not "score points." Yet you are trying to deflect these concerns by turning this into a numbers game. This might be a valid argument if Esperanto had already become the international auxiliary language, or was close to doing so. However, even by the highest estimates of its number of speakers, it's nowhere near there.

Esperanto simultaneously refuses to reform its obvious problems and uses its big-fish-in-small-pond status to overshadow other, better designed IALs, as exemplified in the attitude you've expressed here. If an IAL is even possible, Esperanto is an obstacle to it.

Yes clearly we are bullies who disguise our condemnable behavior by quietly discussing with each other in a marginal language on a marginal thread on a marginal libertarian communist webforum.

Whew I seemed to have missed a fair bit in a short time. I think I'll keep out of this particular scuffle, seeing as most things have been said by both sides already and I have no desire to rekindle any remaining dispute (hope this isn't seen as too evasive ;) ).
Anyhow in regards to Oliver's earlier post pri la SAT:

Saluton kamarado! Mi ne pensas ke mi parolas Esperanton tiel bone, sed me dankas vin por la komplemento.

Mi aŭdis pri la SAT sed mi ne sufiĉe scias pri gxi. Mi pensas ke ili interesos min. Dankon al vi por la ligilo; mi certe esploros ĝin kiam mi havas sufiĉe da tempo.

Mi loĝas en Usono, specife en Teksaso. Plu specife, mi loĝas en urbo ĉirkaŭ Houston-o.

Saluton mi amikoj,

Mi estas komencanto de Esperanto

Kiel vi fartas?

La Esperanto lingvo sekcio sur Libcom https://libcom.org/tags/esperanto

Mi kontaktis kamardon el la grupo Kolectivista Rondo, kaj ili tradukis multajn interesajn tekstojn https://europamaldekstro.wordpress.com/

Precipe sur la Pariza Komunumo

mi vidas tio sur facebook

https://www.facebook.com/InternationalOfAnarchistFederations/photos/a.165805426963124.1073741830.163779383832395/687388288138166/?type=3&theater

Estimata Serge kaj Aliuloj

Mi ankaŭ ĝuos interkomuniki en tiu ĉi loko. Mi estas usona aktivisto pri progresemaj aferoj kaj lernis Esperanton ekde juna aĝo.

Saluton Progresemulo, Mi esperas ke vi trovas nian Esperantan sekcion utila.

Mi havas novaĵon. Mi kaj aliulo kamarado havas unuigi la retejon Arkivon de Marksistojn (MIA). Ni pravas kreski la Esperantan sekcion tie. https://www.marxists.org/esperanto/index.htm

Saluton kamaradojn, kiel vi fartas Hod... pic.twitter.com/oHDCcDxtyw

— Reddebrek