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Marxist Animalism?

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Spikymike
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May 25 2020 12:42
Marxist Animalism?

A surprisingly interesting discussion on this spgb forum amongst themselves with socialist vegetarian, vegan and meat eaters arguing out the issues in relation to practice in capitalism and a future socialism worth a read here:
https://worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/topic/marxist-animalism

mollymew
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May 27 2020 19:36

The title of this post had me going for awhile. I'm somewhat disappointed that it doesn't involve a group of Marxists dancing naked around a totem in the shape of Karl's penis and hoping to invoke his spirit. Now 'that' would have been interesting.

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Reddebrek
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May 27 2020 19:49

Marxist-Animalism you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m1VsFOUePw

zugzwang
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May 27 2020 20:37

I'm pretty sure Marx would object to his name being used to describe Stalinist russia, and fwiw Orwell equates socialism to nationalization in "Lion and the Unicorn":

Quote:
Socialism is usually defined as “common ownership of the means of production”. Crudely: the State, representing the whole nation, owns everything, and everyone is a State employee. This does not mean that people are stripped of private possessions such as clothes and furniture, but it does mean that all productive goods, such as land, mines, ships and machinery, are the property of the State. The State is the sole large-scale producer. It is not certain that Socialism is in all ways superior to capitalism, but it is certain that, unlike capitalism, it can solve the problems of production and consumption. At normal times a capitalist economy can never consume all that it produces, so that there is always a wasted surplus (wheat burned in furnaces, herrings dumped back into the sea, etc., etc.) and always unemployment. In time of war, on the other hand, it has difficulty in producing all that it needs, because nothing is produced unless someone sees his way to making a profit out of it. In a Socialist economy these problems do not exist. The State simply calculates what goods will be needed and does its best to produce them. Production is only limited by the amount of labour and raw materials. Money, for internal purposes, ceases to be a mysterious all-powerful thing and becomes a sort of coupon or ration-ticket, issued in sufficient quantities to buy up such consumption goods as may be available at the moment.

However, it has become clear in the last few years that “common ownership of the means of production” is not in itself a sufficient definition of Socialism. One must also add the following: approximate equality of incomes (it need be no more than approximate), political democracy, and abolition of all hereditary privilege, especially in education. These are simply the necessary safeguards against the reappearance of a class-system. Centralized ownership has very little meaning unless the mass of the people are living roughly upon an equal level, and have some kind of control over the government. “The State” may come to mean no more than a self-elected political party, and oligarchy and privilege can return, based on power rather than on money.

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Reddebrek
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May 27 2020 20:53

Sorry, are you just trying to start an argument or did you really not realise that was a joke?

ajjohnstone
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May 28 2020 00:48

"...a group of Marxists dancing naked around a totem in the shape of Karl's penis and hoping to invoke his spirit. Now 'that' would have been interesting."

smile

Spikymike
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Jun 24 2020 10:28

Yes an odd title and my brief further explanation of the content got stuck with the admins, but thought the substantive issues which are commonly discussed on this site even if past 'veg's versus meat-eaters' battles have disappeared recently might reignite interest.
Edit: Noticed that the spgb discussion site has a huge 783 posts under this heading plus 837 under the 'Coronavirus' heading with an overlap between the 2 that may well be justified. Gets us into the whole arena of thoughtful debate about the connection between our personal behaviour today and our vision of a potential future libertarian communist society, including what compromises we choose or are forced to make. A good deal of that between just a handful of their own members including our very own ajj poster on this site. PS: Noticed that at a recent meal I had with a group of friendly Leftcoms I was the only meat eater!