Bible in one hand, cock in the other, the little prick was vivid and garish and bursting with energy, and he was a brilliant producer. Fuck him - I'm gonna miss him, he makes me think of so many frenetic, messed-up people and times and feel regret, temporal isolation and a sense of falling upwards in space like you want me to walk right down your halls, yeah, you want me to swivel in your loveseat, don't ya baby, write my name on your walls,....and, I think this is good.
Personally, I just never dug Prince. Putting that to one side though, as the leader and founding member of the Anti Guitar Solo League, I've got to say that the guitar solo on Kiss makes me want to reconsider my position. Probably the best solo ever recorded and the complete antithesis of the 6 string wanking of Purple Rain!
I liked him like I liked fizzy fruit drinks in that if they happened to be lying around I'd drink them but I wouldn't go and buy one. But a lot of people I was into liked him and I couldn't really ask them to listen to Pierrot Lunaire or The Fields of Sorrow or Lutoslawski's 3rd the whole time, so..
What's with all these celeb deaths though? It seems to be the height of fashion to kick the bucket amongst the celeb community. I hope they all get in on the act.
Great guitarist, great dancer, great performer. Sex, and sex, and rock and roll. The four best things in the world today-- until there's a world revolution, then that's 4 out of the 5 best things.
"Move over baby
Hand me the keys
Gonna try to tame
Your little red love machine"
Doesn't get much better than that.
And the ride.........And the ride....I said the ride is so sm-o-o-o-o-th
You must be a limousine.
It's the sound of young America-- that Motown thought it had locked down.
It's what's in the groove that counts, to quote Berry Gordy. And Prince had the groove.
He lay. His upturned face was now
pale and withdrawn upon the sloping pillow,
since the world
and all his worldly-wisdom,
ripped from his mind,
had reverted to the indifferent year.
Those who saw him alive never knew
how much he was at one with all of this;
and this: these depths, these meadow-lands
and waters were his face.
All that broad horizon was his face
which even now still desires and woos him;
the taut visage, haunted now by death,
is tender and open like the inner flesh
of a fruit rotting in the air. Rainer Maria Rilke
compared to bowie, this def has made me sad; i think because i grew up listening to him and continued till now. obviously was a homophobe (when he became a jehovah's witness, in the early 2000s), which he should have been challenged on. but a homophobe committed to an image the point of which was genderbending, who had an alter-ego named 'Camille', and sang of threeesomes with another man invited
never got to see him live, which has hit me hard today.
Sometimes it snows in April
Sometimes I feel so bad, so bad
Sometimes I wish that life was never ending,
But all good things, they say, never last
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole, and homophobe. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
Prince was undoubtably a true musical genius, a massively prolific artist and it will be interesting to see what he had stored in his vault, should all or any of it be released. Of all the music I listened to in my teens, there's a negligible amount that I still listen to at all these days but Prince is one of the few exceptions and I was very sad when the news broke today. He was an amazing guitarist and I love his mix of rock, soul and funk. And yes, it was all about the sex. When teen me first saw him playing When Doves Cry on TV I thought this diminutive, non-gender conforming (No, I didn't know that expression then) dynamo in heels was the sexiest creature I had ever laid eyes on. He was a huge talent and I'm going to miss him. I was really bummed that I didn't go to see him when he was in town recently. Doubly sad about that now.
Incidentally, I don't know much about his private life and I don't really care. If we could only like music produced by people who have some kind of lockdown on ideological correctness, we would be reduced to listening to the such like as Chumbawumba and Ani DiFranco. God, that would be dismal.
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole, and homophobe. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
As you can imagine, living in Minneapolis, this it's a very big deal. Everyone is talking about it. It's all over the news. Completely took over my newsfeed on Facebook. Even Obama made a statement.
The I-35 Bridge is going to be lit purple tonight.
Even the transit system's Facebook page is talking about Prince: Metro Transit
A lovely story from one of our staff members: "When Prince was in High School in Minneapolis, he rode the Metro Transit buses to downtown and would go to First Avenue & 7th St Entry. He told driver #181, Jim DeBill, that he was going to be a star someday."
At the famous First Avenue venue, people have been showing up and leaving flowers.
First Ave is having an all-night Prince dance party tonight. Probably going to be mobbed.
Favorite thing I've seen today is from a Wobbly here who works in education:
Peace,
Me: Prince died.
Students: who?
Me: Purple Rain.
Students. Oh Future's New Album.
Me: Your getting put on Facebook.
#IStillLoveYou #KnowYourHistory
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
There's always "this guy".
What if Prince covered Avril Lavigne? That guy'd be like twice the person. It would be, like, Riot x2, or a whole new type of riot. They'd basically be Paramore.
As you can imagine, living in Minneapolis, this it's a very big deal. Everyone is talking about it. It's all over the news. Completely took over my newsfeed on Facebook. Even Obama made a statement.
Now if only he could contrive some way of being named 'Diana'...
Prince almost totally passed me by. Learned more about him in the last few hours than ever before. The World Service spread it on too thick last night, like they would rather be hip DJs than news reporters.
Was genuinely sorry to hear about the deaths of Merle Haggard, a mixed human being, who went his own musical way; and the talented Victoria Wood, who could make the mundane funny. At least Merle lived to a reasonable age unlike the other two (79).
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole, and homophobe. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
lol nice take. sorry u are so unfun...
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
Although he was in many ways a really shitty person, his music was genius.
How do you guys separate the person from the art?
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole, and homophobe. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
lol nice take. sorry u are so unfun...
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful, rampant commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
What are you, 12 and sneering at the kids reading Smash Hits because you only like bands nobody has ever heard of? Honestly, nobody past adolescence really cares what kind of music anybody likes and your dislike of Prince is no skin off anyone's nose but generally it's a bit bad taste to put the boot in to people who are genuinely upset that someone who's music meant a lot to them has died. People get upset when a favourite musician dies because the music was a back drop to their lives and is incorporated into their memories. I listened to him, watched him, danced to him and fucked to him and generally Prince is one of those artists that took me to a happy place. Your schadenfreude that he's dead and you're happy that a lot of people without your musical cool are sad is just a little bloody infantile. Yeah, he was dead mediocre. He played 37 instruments and cities all over the world turned purple and were filled with dance parties last night so people could celebrate his shitty music and his stupid face.*
Anyone who makes their living as a musician makes commercial music, just some people sell more than others. I'm an unashamed lover of commercial music, my days of being a cooler than thou musical snob went a long time ago. If music is commercially successful it just means that it makes a lot of people happy, not just a select few. And right now you're about 2 minutes away from my lecture on why Nicki Minaj is clearly a goddess.
*sorry, I meant wonderful music and beautiful face.
Fleur is technically correct here but there is a difference between commercial music that most see as credible and that which most see a shite. When I say most I mean my peers and unless I'm very much mistaken, many Libcommers. Fuck that shit is what I say, some of my favourite tunes fall in the non credible category whereas the credible stuff is so fucking dull. To me Prince is Superstar material, like say Maddona and many others that have an enormous body of work most of which is tedious as fuck but made bearable by a couple of absolute belters. With Prince I'd suggest Get Off and Kiss as the winning tunes, as for the rest I'm like, whatever. I'd take Macarenna over Ehen Doves Cry or Purple Rain any day of the week.
As for that overall damning of 'commercial' music, well, ugh.
Red and black riot, seriously, if you listen to I would die 4 u and nothing twitches in you then you're just a plank of wood with a face drawn on. Fact.
Credible is very subjective. Life's too damned short to care about whether or not art is credible or not. People spend way too much time navel gazing about this sort of thing. I find a lot of people's tastes in entertainment or pastimes unfathomable but at the end of the day, who really gives a fuck?
Credible is very subjective. Life's too damned short to care about whether or not art is credible or not. People spend way too much time navel gazing about this sort of thing. I find a lot of people's tastes in entertainment or pastimes unfathomable but at the end of the day, who really gives a fuck?
Agreed. As you know I like having fun with this stuff but really, there is just so much wanking off over music. It's just fucking daft.
Prince almost totally passed me by. Learned more about him in the last few hours than ever before.
same. i think he came along about 20 minutes after i stopped paying attention. i heard some good tracks of his, but i'm taken by surprise by the claims made for him and all the attention.
Listen again to Little Red Corvette, 1999, Kiss, U Got the Look, etc etc etc. Too bad for those not paying attention. Plus....if you never saw him live, then really you don't know what you missed. Nobody played guitar, sang, and danced like him. He could out play any guitarist ever; and he could outdance anyone with the possible exception of James Brown.
Better than all that is the fact that Prince made you want to dance. If that's not important, then I don't know what is when it comes to rock and roll.
Would you go so far as to say that RandB has joined the other side? Is looking down on 'commercial' music classist? Do you think there's something in the argument that 'movements' like modernism were the response of bourgeois elites panicked over the prols catching up with their exclusive artistic culture, "quick Virginia, call T.S. Eliot, Pablo Picasso and Arnold Schoenberg and get them to make it incomprehensible again, the great unwashed are here and we simply must show them they're not one of us!!"? Can music be thought of like this? And can anyone lend me a fiver?
I have been told the origins of artistic bohemia and modernism was largely due to the production of large numbers of artists after the great expansion of art colleges/courses and the resultant unemployment this produced. These young artists rebelled against the academy system because the older artists refused them entry, to protect their own elite position, and of course access to their wealthy patrons. Abstract art was born partly due to photography challenging the painterly artifice.
The only musical example similar, that I know of, would be the birth of bebop, which was also due to alienating social and economic factors.
I kinda regret framing his death the way I did in the OP. Maybe he wasn't as shitty of a person as was impressed upon me. He just seemed kinda egomaniacal and sexist at times.
I take great inspiration from his music, though. He was one of the main artists that made me want to pick up the guitar, and as a amateur producer I view his work as a benchmark in using production as an instrument of its own
I take great inspiration from his music, though. He was one of the main artists that made me want to pick up the guitar, and as a amateur producer I view his work as a benchmark in using production as an instrument of its own
Virtuoso guitarists like Jimmy Hendrix had the precise opposite effect on me. The beginners level strumming and picking of early Velvet Underground made me pick up the blasted thing. I joined a band probably within a month of picking up and was soon gigging and being really involved in music. Simple unpretentious musicianship is so much more congruous to the expression of emotion for most lyrical content than someone hellbent on demonstrating their technical brilliance. Obviously I speak in general terms here.
I've since come to appreciate accomplished musicians, for instance, Jonny Greenwood is an incredible guitarist but it's always understated and subtle. So evocative and emotive I could weep with joy, put Cream on and I'll weep with anguish.
My favourite music is almost always something that can be made by anyone as long as they have the idea, the imagination, that's why Velvet Underground were so amazing - the ideas were there and they didn't have to practice for years to become proficient while the ideas faded and turned to shit. Same with dance music although that does require somewhat more technical ability. If you have the ideas it's easy to find someone that has the know how. You may not play a note but it's still all your work.
Sorry Fleur, looks like I'm as big a musical wank off merchant as those I was condemning earlier!
Honestly, nobody past adolescence really cares what kind of music anybody likes and your dislike of Prince is no skin off anyone's nose but generally it's a bit bad taste to put the boot in to people who are genuinely upset that someone who's music meant a lot to them has died.
Except for their own, presumably. Rushing into things there might be problematic. It seems strange to wall people off such that they can make evaluations of music, but also give these evaluations no validity and grant as much to anyone else or any other music.
Of course, music was not somehow magically separate from the social dynamic of the age, unless this dynamic is being denied in favour of listeners' atomisation, and hence it might well be relevant. That is what R&BR was talking about by then, albeit in a limited field.
It's not a funeral, if they wished to praise their estimation of Prince's fans and their feelings rather than the artist then they could go elsewhere. It's a socialist/anarchist forum, though, so they might be more inclined to mourn people's adolescence.
Anyone who makes their living as a musician makes commercial music, just some people sell more than others.
Just some people are 'better' at making commercial music than others, while others intentionally diverge from the 'commercial music' which they are supposed to be trying to make. People don't make obscure heavy metal expecting to be the next pop sensation, just for that reason, sadly. In that sense they are being intentionally obtuse vis-à-vis the overall system, rather than following its musical dictates or reasons for production. The problem comes in, of course, as soon as in 'making commercial music' they then have to actually make something quite different, and they would not then be able to.
Making pop music like all other pop musicians and this going harmoniously merely implied harmony with the system, and otherwise this would be an awkward and unaesthetic combination which would be recognised as such. It's likely that they generally weren't liked for socialist reasons, but rather catered to capitalist views in listeners along with capital instead. This might have been unaesthetic, depending on your views on each.
If music is commercially successful it just means that it makes a lot of people happy, not just a select few.
Yes, but you need not agree.
Unfortunately, they might only care about such things, rather than the music itself. It is possible. This would at least create a certain tendency in music which was more in harmony with the capitalist system.
Better than all that is the fact that Prince made you want to dance. If that's not important, then I don't know what is when it comes to rock and roll.
If it's played backwards, it might make you want to die - ? Just like Prince playing guitar better than anyone - apparently, and obviously he had to be promoted in such terms - in the past might lead to a similar course of action to most who bother with the instrument.
In this he was perhaps unnecessary, of course. Jesus was already the king of the dance settee, reportedly, and was renowned for their salvific abilities compared to others at the time, who as a result consigned him to poverty and killed him, so long as his ministry lasted.
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
What are you, 12 and sneering at the kids reading Smash Hits because you only like bands nobody has ever heard of? Honestly, nobody past adolescence really cares what kind of music anybody likes and your dislike of Prince is no skin off anyone's nose but generally it's a bit bad taste to put the boot in to people who are genuinely upset that someone who's music meant a lot to them has died. People get upset when a favourite musician dies because the music was a back drop to their lives and is incorporated into their memories. I listened to him, watched him, danced to him and fucked to him and generally Prince is one of those artists that took me to a happy place. Your schadenfreude that he's dead and you're happy that a lot of people without your musical cool are sad is just a little bloody infantile. Yeah, he was dead mediocre. He played 37 instruments and cities all over the world turned purple and were filled with dance parties last night so people could celebrate his shitty music and his stupid face.*
Anyone who makes their living as a musician makes commercial music, just some people sell more than others. I'm an unashamed lover of commercial music, my days of being a cooler than thou musical snob went a long time ago. If music is commercially successful it just means that it makes a lot of people happy, not just a select few. And right now you're about 2 minutes away from my lecture on why Nicki Minaj is clearly a goddess.
*sorry, I meant wonderful music and beautiful face.
Fleur- I said awful commercial music, not just commercial. By the way, alot of people like Roy Chubby Brown but does that mean he's a good comedian? I don't think so. Alot of people like the Bee Gees and Duran Duran, doesn't mean their music is good. How populist do you want to be? Nicki Minaj? Goddess? Really? That says much about you.
In this he was perhaps unnecessary, of course. Jesus was already the king of the dance settee, reportedly, and was renowned for their salvific abilities compared to others at the time, who as a result consigned him to poverty and killed him, so long as his ministry lasted.
Stop posting and just finish your drugs.
I was once dexterous in a transparent box looking at an old limit which began signalling to a symbol of it at an hour when it, capitalism struggled to be born, but in a dark world of other previous abstractions singing to an aging cabbage outside a phone box nearby.
There were many thousands of people downtown last night around First Ave. Kinda regret not going, but had to work today.
Cause of death is still unknown, but there's rumors that he overdosed on prescription opiates last week.
I can't speak about other places, but at least here, he's such a big deal, because he was one of the few really famous people who came from Minneapolis. Also, although he no longer lived in the city, he still lived in Minnesota, in a large complex called Paisly Park out in the suburbs. I keep hearing variations of this from people here: "Even though he became famous, he never left here." I think that means something to people in the Midwest more than in other places, maybe.
Minneapolis used to have a soul/r&b/funk scene, that while often being dertvitive, was respectable and put out some, pretty good, if mostly ignored music. A few years ago, a local record label tracked down some of the earlier parts of this scene and released it. Another label collected a bunch of tracks from around the time Prince emerged and released a small book and album around the same time.
With this latter album, I have kind of a funny story. At the last job I worked at, we were allowed to hook up our phones to the radio and play what we wanted. I usually made large Spotify mixes to last the day. Mostly hip-hop, soul, r&b and funk. One of the songs off that Purple Snow album above had a singer that one of my coworkers swore he recognized. Turns out this singer, who had recorded this track on Purple Snow around the time I was born, still played music, and my coworker, who plays the drums, was in a practicing band with him for a time!
You hear a lot of stories like that. Since Minneapolis isn't that big, any scene is going to touch and involve a larger percentage of residents than if it was in Chicago or New York. It seems like there is a fair amount of people who have a family member who was involved in this scene, and so had some relation to Prince.
Personally, I never really super got into Prince, although I've been meaning to go through his discography for years. I remember he did the soundtrack to the first Batman movie, which is probably when I first became aware of him. He sort of picked up the torch from Parliament, a group I was obsessed with in my early 20s, and advanced funk into his own thing, which I respect. As a longtime hip-hop head, I've learned to respect what came before because so much of that is the foundation that hip-hop is built on. Anyway...
Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
Absolutely. And the above is a perfect example of of an in depth socialist critique of popular music.
And given that I don't give two hoots about the structural position of popular music within the capitalist system, or whatever, to Noah:
We're probably looking at this from the same angle from an entirely different perspective. It is because I played music is why I value talent and musicianship so highly. I got my first guitar when I was 7. I was electrified at 13. Music was pretty much all I did and all that was important and where I went to to escape. When I see someone doing something so brilliantly and with such apparent ease that I couldn't possibly do with all the practise in the world and if I spent every waking minute trying to master technical skills, that is awe inspiring. A difference between a good musician and a genius talent is the like difference between a poster from Walmart and a Caravaggio. DIY culture is all well and good and it does have a democratizing effect but there's still room to recognize the artists of outstanding ability. You don't have to like them, there have been some outstanding guitarists but I don't like their music. That doesn't detract from their ability just because it's not my cup of tea.
I don't have many regrets really, I don't see the point but that I don't play anymore is one of those. I had a disastrous injury which meant I had to have my wrist in plaster for nearly a year and when it came out it was clear that it was going to be starting from scratch and it would never be the same again. If I couldn't play properly, I didn't want to do it at all. I think that's a real shame now. However, when someone can really play, with virtuosity, I'm blown away. It's like standing in the Uffizi being struck down with Stendhal syndrome, or watching an acting performance which shakes you to the core. It's a buzz and people get their highs in different ways.
And as far as I can see, my taste in music has fuck all to do with politics, although some people can and will construct political theory about just about anything. Not everything I do for pleasure needs to be analyzed from an anarchist perspective. How dull would that be? I honestly don't care what other people think of my music taste and I think it's completely ridiculous that grown adults will pull the I'm cooler than you musical snobbery card out of the deck. To put it another way, act you age not your shoe size ;)
edit: No, I don't like the Bee Gees or Duran Duran. Nor do I like Celine Dion, Madonna or Bruce Springsteen or a multitude of other people who are popular but that doesn't make me the arbiter of good taste or make me feel the need to shit on other people because I hold the personal opinion that their music isn't good. This is mainly because I am a grown up and I don't actually care about other people's taste. It's very subjective and some of the things you've posted up as your favourite tunes are the sort of things I would chew my own leg off to avoid being in a room listening to them. However, I do feel that taking delight in other people being saddened by a death is a shitty and childish position. There's always that one guy...actually there's always a lot of people - like the ones who wouldn't shut up moaning about Star Wars at Christmas, even though there was no reason for them to go and see it. Pissing and moaning about other people who like something they don't. Personally I find it incomprehensible that people lose their shit over a bunch of blokes running around a field after a ball but it's not like anyone is forcing me to do it.
Let people have their moment when they're upset. It passes soon enough.
As for Nicki, she's got amazing flow, she can really sing, she's smart and funny and sassy and you can dance your ass off to her. On top of that she's totally gorgeous. What's not to love?
And as for you, it says a lot about you that you feel that somehow you need to be mean to people who are feeling a loss and tout your superiority about your taste in music. It says an awful lot.
um, newsflash, capital totally works with both mass production/consumption and specialized production and consumption within subcultures - adorno was wrong.
harry partch and prince and deathspell omega have all been affected by the market
EDIT: that purple snow comp is KILLER. i'll have to check out the other one
All of the arts have to provide a faithful account of reality in some form if they are going to connect with us and create the kind of immediacy of experience that we ask of them, which is the predominance of feeling over the deadening abstraction of the rigid, pragmatic everyday world which narrows our emotions as much as it narrows our minds. Great artists are not great the more technically incompetent they are, it is not a requirement that they be mad or childlike or visionaries or conform to any corny mass media models. On the contrary, if they have great talent they almost definitely command great knowledge of the facts of the inner world. But they don't succeed in communicating their message by cutting off their legs and using political or other ideological crutches. They're not trying to be good and correct. Music is the greatest of the nonverbal arts, those forms best equipped to connect us with unconceptualised experiences of the ethical-aesthetic-sensual-contemplative variety and liberate us from formulaic limitations of the calculating ego and its worldly transactions which is still present in literature, which is relatively better suited to the expression of our instrumental and conceptual side.
I was completely addicted to music for a couple of decades but I used to fight a lot and had some teeth knocked out and cracked but I'm getting that way again now that I've become used to the front denture, sounding like my old self all of a sudden. As a teenager I used to take weeks off school and go to the rehearsal rooms in the school of music in the city centre and play all day long and then go to lessons in the evening. In all honesty, I was very fucking good, and the better I got technically, the more the music affected me. We don't need less technique and more soul, we need more technique for expressing matters of the soul.
In this he was perhaps unnecessary, of course. Jesus was already the king of the dance settee, reportedly, and was renowned for their salvific abilities compared to others at the time, who as a result consigned him to poverty and killed him, so long as his ministry lasted.
Stop posting and just finish your drugs.
I'm not on drugs. Nor do I like them.
Many people would enjoy being on drugs, though, and it might even save their life. So a strange place to make the accusation.
I was once dexterous in a transparent box looking at an old limit which began signalling to a symbol of it at an hour when it, capitalism struggled to be born, but in a dark world of other previous abstractions singing to an aging cabbage outside a phone box nearby.
They are very different, it must be noted.
Reminiscent of Engels' quite coherent, "The thing [calculus] has taken such a hold of me that it not only goes round my head all day, but last week in a dream I gave a chap my shirt-buttons to differentiate, and he ran off with them," except with an unwelcome tinge of a more charitable Erwin Schrödinger. Call it Schopenhauer-esque, then.
But they don't succeed in communicating their message by cutting off their legs and using political or other ideological crutches.
Very much like Schopenhauer, but a questionable thing to take issue with in the context. Clearly these 'crutches' do play a part in history and have a place in it quite unlike these 'artists,' who would retire from it to appeal to those of their 'time' and encourage the life they lead. I suppose that I could allow for being accused of being of drugs for discussing politics, though, and this seems to ultimately be a compliment, if a convoluted one.
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
What are you, 12 and sneering at the kids reading Smash Hits because you only like bands nobody has ever heard of? Honestly, nobody past adolescence really cares what kind of music anybody likes and your dislike of Prince is no skin off anyone's nose but generally it's a bit bad taste to put the boot in to people who are genuinely upset that someone who's music meant a lot to them has died. People get upset when a favourite musician dies because the music was a back drop to their lives and is incorporated into their memories. I listened to him, watched him, danced to him and fucked to him and generally Prince is one of those artists that took me to a happy place. Your schadenfreude that he's dead and you're happy that a lot of people without your musical cool are sad is just a little bloody infantile. Yeah, he was dead mediocre. He played 37 instruments and cities all over the world turned purple and were filled with dance parties last night so people could celebrate his shitty music and his stupid face.*
Anyone who makes their living as a musician makes commercial music, just some people sell more than others. I'm an unashamed lover of commercial music, my days of being a cooler than thou musical snob went a long time ago. If music is commercially successful it just means that it makes a lot of people happy, not just a select few. And right now you're about 2 minutes away from my lecture on why Nicki Minaj is clearly a goddess.
*sorry, I meant wonderful music and beautiful face.
Have you actually seen this? http://www.queerty.com/prince-discovers-god-says-some-homophobic-crap-20081117
One less homophobic religious nut in the world, what a shame. No gods. No Masters.
I think Fleur is right about art. Accessible stuff is cool, but stuff that requires virtuosity inspires. It's cool to know that anyone can make a film, write a novel, record an album etc and that's the way it should be, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the stuff that blows your mind with it's skill or scale.
(That said I do find abstract guitar noodling a bit dull, anything where they are just showing off a skill rather than using it to create something leaves me cold. )
Jeff - well said. I read my posts again and realised I was talking shit, I mean it was true what I said but it's not the whole picture. There is actually loads of highly skilled musicians that I like. Lee Ronaldo is an incredible guitarist, you need way more than good ideas to do that shit.
Seriously though, watch the video. I also find Prince leaves me cold but this is a little different!
Firstly the OP was asking about separating art from the person, which I can obviously do because I know very little about his personal life and haven't bothered reading the music press, let alone celebrity biographies since my teens. Secondly, I was taking issue with you been mean spirited and smug about someone dying and taking pleasure in other people being sad about what's effectively a little bit of their youth dying. It's not a great look, it makes you look petty and spiteful. Thirdly, you're an adult. Try growing up.
I think Fleur is right. It's pretty mean spirited to mock people who are affected by someone's death, and musical taste is pretty individual. There is no better or worse.
That said I do find it strange that people are affected so deeply by the deaths of people they don't know. I sort of think 'oh, that's a shame', but that's it. Maybe I'm just not particularly empathetic.
I'm not a big fan of Prince, but I did like Bowie. However, when he died it didn't affect me that much. The music I like is still there, and he hadn't done anything great in years. Maybe that's just me though.
Still actively trying to offend people isn't nice.
My personal feeling on this is, certainly from my point of view, that it represents a loss of something which is heavily associated with memories. I was upset when Bowie died, and quite shocked at this because I'd never had one of these celebrity mourning-type experiences before, because I had so many associations with his music. In the case of Bowie, the first album I ever owned was Ziggy Stardust and I used to play his songs on the guitar and I found his music got me through some very tough times.
I'm not in any deep mourning for Prince but I associate his music with memories, people I don't have in my life anymore, it's a personal loss, not of someone I actually knew or wanted to know but of a part of my life which isn't there anymore. It's absolutely nothing like losing someone I actually knew and loved. I'm not a very nostalgic sort of person but I don't want to totally forget or walk away from the past but I find music associated with strong memories very evocative, much more so than any other kind of remembrance and I guess when an artist dies that I have this sort of connection with their work, it's a concrete reminder that a certain part of my life is well and truly gone now.
When Mr Bowie died I felt a strange sort of happiness and comfort. I didn't feel upset in the least. It was probably connected to my situation with my health but my thoughts were one of, well done mate, that's a life well lived. I'd always loved his music even since I was in single figures but my associated memories made me smile as they reminded me of my life which, for the most part, I'm very happy to have lived.
RIP prince obvs but I'm also really sad to see such hate for my former band chumbawumba.
No hate from me. I saw you guys at a gig in a squated bingo hall around 84/85. Smart and hilarious! I seem to remember a bass player with a TV on his head and a singer in a suit pretending to be a boss. Am I imagining this or does my memory serve me well?
I think Fleur is right. It's pretty mean spirited to mock people who are affected by someone's death, and musical taste is pretty individual. There is no better or worse.
That said I do find it strange that people are affected so deeply by the deaths of people they don't know. I sort of think 'oh, that's a shame', but that's it. Maybe I'm just not particularly empathetic.
I'm not a big fan of Prince, but I did like Bowie. However, when he died it didn't affect me that much. The music I like is still there, and he hadn't done anything great in years. Maybe that's just me though.
Still actively trying to offend people isn't nice.
Devrim
Atleast Bowie turned down a Knighthood- and wasn't a Jehovah's Witness. Also much of his music and songs were actually good.
I only know two of his songs and I was so young then, "Purple Rain" and "When the Doves Cry". He's really weird but I must say really talented. RIP Prince.
Noah, do you think I actively try to offend people?
Devrim
Well, I've seen what I strongly believe is you actively trying to offend people and making a pretty good job of it. If it was not intentional you have a natural talent.
For good measure I'll point out that I'm far from innocent myself but just coz I'm an asshole sometimes it doesn't mean you're not. It just means there's 2 assholes!
I'm really not sure what you talking about. It's certainly not intentional. I can't think of many things that I do that could be said to deliberately offend people. Maybe I'm just really unselfaware.
I'm really not sure what you talking about. It's certainly not intentional. I can't think of many things that I do that could be said to deliberately offend people. Maybe I'm just really unselfaware.
Devrim
Don't worry about it. Maybe it's just me. Anyways, we're all assholes to some degree, aren't we?
As for Nicki, she's got amazing flow, she can really sing, she's smart and funny and sassy and you can dance your ass off to her. On top of that she's totally gorgeous. What's not to love?
I couldn't disagree with you more, to me she is obviously part of the objectification and stereotyping of women. I also don't think she is 'gorgeous' which is to do with preference anyway and don't see being gorgeous as some kind of achievement like you obviously do. Why even mention that you find her gorgeous? Whats that got to do with songs and music? It's whats inside that counts anyway.
The fuck? You came back after this time to come up with that? Brooding much.
You bio says that you are a man, which gives you exactly zero say on how women chose to look and act. Nada. Next thing I expect is you will be opining that women shouldn't wear heels or look better without make-up or whatever shitty sexist opinions guys pipe up with when trying to force their opinions on women's behaviour in the name of, ahem, feminism. Massive eye-roll. As the young 'uns say, stay in your lane. I seem to remember that you lamely waved about your argument about objectification and stereotyping of women to justify your (now recanted) transphobia. GTFO, your opinions on how women chose to look and dress are irrelevant.
Yeah, I think she's gorgeous, what of it? I'm not dead from the waist down. If you suggest that people don't notice when other people are attractive, then you're just deluding yourself. Popular music has always had a strong sexual element to it - you do know what rock and roll means, don't you? - if you don't like that then the medium isn't for you. Or you can just go with it and appreciate the sexiness.
That's all you can come back with? That I think she's sexy? No criticisms of her as a smart, independent, body-positive, sex-positive, smart as a whip, funny as fuck woman? Not going to argue about her massive talent as a rapper or ability to produce some of the catchiest, danciest, most fun pop songs out there? Your beef is that I think she's gorgeous. Tone police my sexuality, why don't you?
May the gods protect us from self-identified male feminists who want tell women how to look and behave. And you're right, what is inside a person is what really counts. You could probably do with a little bit of self examination yourself. And even then you can still take your infantile desire to judge people by what music they like and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, which seems to be where your opinions on this subject already reside.
Also, consider your hypocrisy when you whine about sexism and religion to put forward your teenaged view on what's cool and what's not (apologies to actual teenagers who are mostly much more grown up than this) while you're listening to Bob Marley next. Sexism, patriarchy, religious mumbo-jumbo. He had it all. Let's just face it, you're a misanthropist who just likes shitting on other people who don't like the same things as you.
Better still, don't try and throw around your dodgy second wave feminism next time you want to be a grumpy old git. Don't need or want you white-knighting for us, tyvm.
Seems you agree with Germaine Greer's position on men after all- interesting. Anyway, I have better things to do with my time than spend all of it on here, ciao.
Ha! You're the one who came back into a dead thread just to crap on someone else's music taste. You clearly don't have much in the way of better things to do.
I don't really give a gnat's knacker about Germaine Greer but my personal experience bears that I've never met a man who brandishes his faux feminism to tell women what they should look like, do or enjoy who wasn't an utter tosser.
At best though it looks pretty flimsy to me.
There are some pretty obvious examples though where it would be pretty fair to make a judgement. I mean, if someone is crazy about Screwdriver and loves to sing Land of Hope and Glory, it's not too difficult to surmise that they are more than likely a nationalist shitbag. Similarly, if they are keen on the Internationale they probably have politics considered to be somewhere on the left, or even worse, they are Billy Bragg.
Move away from obvious stuff like this and suddenly it's way more difficult. All the same, some general conclusions can be drawn, for instance, if someone declares that they don't like 'commercial music' it's almost(but not quite) certain that they are a phoney, too cool for school, image conscious nitwit, possibly with a big ego but probably also with low self esteem.
I like music of almost every variety although I find 99% of any style of music to be well below par. There are a few things I have trouble with in which the sound of the music is so evocative of something I can't stand and I'm so infuriated by what that sound represents that it's like poison to my ears. Swing/lounge music a la Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennet spring to mind or 1980s Westbourne Grove trendies of whom I knew a good number suddenly come back to haunt me when I hear The Sodding Clash.
As pointed out, this is pretty childish but if that's how you feel that's how you feel.
Probably the most daft example of this attitude from both sides was when in the very early eighties the hidebound, reactionary and incredibly backward looking Musicians Union were bemoaning synthesisers and saying that electronic music was not 'real music'. As my reaction I went through maybe 6 or 9 months listening to only electronic music. Duh.
Actually, even more dumb was me at the Stonehenge Free Festival in 1984, tripping my nut off through amphetamine induced sleep deprivation of around 80 hours and feeling like I could touch God, I sat in my mates car, whilst Hawkwind, who I absolutely loved played live as the sun rose, because I refused to stand in a field with a bunch of acid dropping fucking hippies! What a fucking knob.
Anyways, I enjoy have a bit of fun categorising people coz of what they like and getting on a wind up about well thought musos but in reality you should just enjoy what the fuck you like and pay no heed to the lives of the people behind the music. Plus wishing them dead is really fucking childish and petulant - just pack that shit in. Er, unless it's Billy Bragg.
I think the childish one is the one who is into Nikki Minaj and actually thinks she is sexy and edgy. Oh yeah and sorry for espousing feminist views and being a man- how dare I.
I'm not white-knighting for anyone, just expressing my own views, apparently thats wrong and we must all think Nikki Minaj (who I refuse to believe is talented and truly artistic) is perfect in every way and not question her 'sexyness'.And yes, whatever Bob Marley was like in his personal life, I prefer his music to Nikki Minaj and think he had more to say. I'd like some evidence for your claim that Marley was indeed sexist btw.
I feel that an individual’s taste in music may well be of slight importance. However the role of music in many people’s lives is/was never trivial. It has been noted that very poor people in the USA, white and black, often scrimped to afford a Victrola and some records. These were sometimes played until they were worn grey. I think this a sign that music was an important part in their lives.
‘Even today (1996), when I pass a row of old houses, I wonder whether there could be old records still in the homes. By this time, the precious few that remain have been handed down to grandchildren. I am sorry to say it is dangerous to be in some black neighborhoods now. That was not a concern a few decades ago.’
(Gayle Dean Wardlow, Chasin’ That Devil Music, 1998, page 16)
In her entertaining book on record collecting Amanda Petrusich writes:
‘Just as we sweat over the minutiae of our Facebook profiles and the contents of our closets, collectors customize an identity via the serialization of objects. “It is invariably oneself that one collects,” the French sociologist and philosopher Jean Baudrillard points out in his 1968 essay ‘The System of Collecting’. For Baudrillard, the collection, with all its attendant pieces, is a complex, multifaceted statement of self, and the worth of each component, is determined by how it interacts with and complements its neighbors. If a specific part of the collection is absent, then a part of the collector is also missing. Who wouldn’t hunt down a lost feature as though their life depended on it?’
(Amanda Petrusich, Do Not Sell At Any Price, 2014, page5)
Recently I read that some people were buying LPs to decorate their rooms, even though they possessed no record player. In an age of digital downloads, is this a sign that they wished to own a physical manifestation of ‘themselves’.
Sweetie, I'm a grown woman and haven't felt the need to be "edgy" since adolescence. As for opinions on sexiness, they are highly subjective and your insistence that my finding Nicki Minaj sexy is somehow wrong is petulant and childish. I guess you have different tastes, whatever cranks your handle. Your opinions that judge people by their taste in music is what makes you so childish. You may not think that Nicki Minaj is talented or artistic, on the other hand I think Bob Marley is one of the most overrated artists of all time, so beloved by white liberal boys who never wash their scuzzy locs, but that's just my subjective opinion. I'm not judging you by your taste in music (which I find very insipid btw) but by the stupid things you choose to say.
As for your "feminist opinions" - using then to dictate how women should act, look or feel doesn't make you a feminist. It just makes you another tiresome manarchist who doesn't know when his opinions on women are just not wanted.
Fleur wrote:
As for Nicki, she's got amazing flow, she can really sing, she's smart and funny and sassy and you can dance your ass off to her. On top of that she's totally gorgeous. What's not to love?
I couldn't disagree with you more, to me she is obviously part of the objectification and stereotyping of women. I also don't think she is 'gorgeous' which is to do with preference anyway and don't see being gorgeous as some kind of achievement like you obviously do. Why even mention that you find her gorgeous? Whats that got to do with songs and music? It's whats inside that counts anyway.
What you mean when you say she is 'part of objectification and stereotyping of women?'
Fleur wrote:
As for Nicki, she's got amazing flow, she can really sing, she's smart and funny and sassy and you can dance your ass off to her. On top of that she's totally gorgeous. What's not to love?
I couldn't disagree with you more, to me she is obviously part of the objectification and stereotyping of women. I also don't think she is 'gorgeous' which is to do with preference anyway and don't see being gorgeous as some kind of achievement like you obviously do. Why even mention that you find her gorgeous? Whats that got to do with songs and music? It's whats inside that counts anyway.
What you mean when you say she is 'part of objectification and stereotyping of women?'
Yes dear, a grown woman who doesn't need someone to be the arbiter of cool to tell me what I should or should not be listening to, in the name of ideological purity, by someone who's infantile enough to take delight in someone dying and making some people who like different music to you feel a bit sad. I don't need you to tell me what is or isn't feminist, especially given that in another thread you reduced the experience of being a woman to having periods. You clearly don't have the faintest idea, either about feminism or behaving like a grown up. If my own teenage children were as mean-spirited to laugh at people who were upset, wished death on someone who have no actual impact on their lives, or pass arbitrary judgement on people because they liked a particular thing that they didn't, I would give them a fucking good talking to for being assholes. They don't do these things though because they're pretty decent human beings.
Grow up, you idiot. The kind of music people like tells very little about who they are. Hating on people who are upset, behaving like you think you are the cool kid in the school when you are clearly not a kid anymore does say quite a lot about someone. And calling yourself a feminist when you try to dictate how women should look and behave just makes you look really stupid.
Anaconda is really funny. It was a response to racist shaming of black women with larger body types. It's funny. Ha ha. Meant to make you laugh. Need to have a sense of humour. You got one of those?
Seriously, you're making yourself look like such an idiot. You picked up on my liking Nicki Minaj to carry on with your ridiculously stupid argument that someone's taste in music makes them less than you. You're just proving my point for me, you silly boy.
Tell you what, I'm also a huge fan of Felix Mendelssohn and Alban Berg. Go find yourself a youtube video to post up to prove that they in some way prove I'm a bad commie or something.
Saw a cover of Cosmopolitan or some mag similar a couple of months ago, with a picture of Nikki Minaj on the cover and the headline article "Nikki Minaj on sex: I demand an orgasm every time."
Fucking had me doubled up on the street, laughing to the point of tears, imagining Nikki grabbing some poor schmuck by his, and telling him "I better come....or else, motherfucker."
"Yeah," I thought, "I demand an orgasm every time, too. Which might explain why I spend so much time alone."
In general, Nicki Minaj was selling something and was doing so in a certain cultural context, with meaning relating to this in general, which Fidel Gastro can presumably be permitted to evaluate. People selling their body isn't that new, any more than selling their sexual activity - and pop musicians were often paid for engaging in sexual relationships with people, so it was hardly a domain free of sexualisation in different forms -, the only problem is that to do this they had to directly associate that body with capital, or use their body to directly express capital, to some degree or other. This could be a bit grotesque, though. In general, Fidel Gastro is describing acts which are directly related to the overall cultural and social system of the time, and hence they can presumably evaluate these as much as they can evaluate this social system, which hopefully they can be permitted on a socialist forum.
Serge Forward
fidel gastro
by saying that this is 'sex positive' or 'sassy' or empowering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs
Probably before your time but all the same...
Fidel Gastro is Fidel Castro in spiritual form after their death and resurrection - the logical consequence of Protestantism in other words -, they were even before Abraham.
Anaconda is really funny. It was a response to racist shaming of black women with larger body types. It's funny.
None of those women have larger body types so your 'argument' doesn't work. Sorry but the idea that Nikki Minaj is some kind of Feminist is just bollocks. Next you'll be telling me that Lil Wayne is an anarchist.
Saw a cover of Cosmopolitan or some mag similar a couple of months ago, with a picture of Nikki Minaj on the cover and the headline article "Nikki Minaj on sex: I demand an orgasm every time."
Fucking had me doubled up on the street, laughing to the point of tears, imagining Nikki grabbing some poor schmuck by his, and telling him "I better come....or else, motherfucker."
"Yeah," I thought, "I demand an orgasm every time, too. Which might explain why I spend so much time alone."
So there we go, twirking you're arse is feminism- you learn something new every day. Thankyou for educating me O enlightened comrades- you deserve some kind of prize and clearly should have medals pinned to your chests like the towering heroes you are. Well done! Congratulations! Bravo! And likewise with the gargantuan giants of anarcho-feminism- Lil Wayne,Nikki Minaj, Dr Dre and Britney Spears! (applause)
Jesus, Fidel, it's just popular music performed by musical celebrities. Why would anyone give a fuck if someone off Libcom likes it or not? After all, it's not the Horst Wessell song they're belting out, for fuck sake. It's just some daft lasses shaking their arses to mundane, derivative supermarket music. Who cares? You need to stop taking yourself so seriously, especially over something as personal yet relatively unimportant as musical "taste".
It's just some daft lasses shaking their arses to mundane, derivative supermarket music.
It's not derivative supermarket music-- it's certainly derivative from blues, African call and response, Arabic, Irish, and Spanish musical traditions, but not from Piggly Wigglys, or Carrefours, or Booths, or Tescos.
This is a good idea. Judge music by comparing with shopping outlets. Prince will live on through this initiative. I'd say that Prince was the naff bling counter at Harrods.
Jesus, Fidel, it's just popular music performed by musical celebrities. Why would anyone give a fuck if someone off Libcom likes it or not? After all, it's not the Horst Wessell song they're belting out, for fuck sake. It's just some daft lasses shaking their arses to mundane, derivative supermarket music. Who cares? You need to stop taking yourself so seriously, especially over something as personal yet relatively unimportant as musical "taste".
you are right comrade but I'm not the only one- certain people get so intensely personal and unpleasant and immature.
After all, it's not the Horst Wessell song they're belting out, for fuck sake. It's just some daft lasses shaking their arses to mundane, derivative supermarket music
NOW THATS FUNNY! A very prejudiced view but I like it! 'Daft lasses'. Love it, reminds me though that I'll never be a northerner. Shame.
Christ on a cracker man, are you still at it? I thought you had something better to do.
So there we go, twirking you're arse is feminism- you learn something new every day. Thankyou for educating me O enlightened comrades- you deserve some kind of prize and clearly should have medals pinned to your chests like the towering heroes you are. Well done! Congratulations! Bravo! And likewise with the gargantuan giants of anarcho-feminism- Lil Wayne,Nikki Minaj, Dr Dre and Britney Spears! (applause)
I don't believe I ever said Nicki Minaj was a feminist, you would have to ask her about that. What I did say was that you were a well and truly shit feminist if your use your alleged feminism to tell women what is suitable for them to enjoy. Also that you're a pretty dreary sort of person in a state of arrested development if you think that you can wave about that adolescent attitude of being cooler than thou, over something quite as ephemeral as pop music.
I'm pretty sure the artists you listed aren't anarchists either. Do you only ever listen to/watch/read etc things produced by anarchists? You must have a very small cannon of things you like.
My argument is that you are being a complete ass by telling people what they should enjoy and to decide what is good and what is not. It's pretty subjective, yeah?
And twerking (it's spelt with an e) isn't feminist praxis. What it actually is is a dance, you know that thing that people do to express themselves with enjoyment to music. Don't be such a priggish little puritan, you sound like the old dears who fainted the first time they saw Elvis swivel his hips.
So, you don't like that other people have a different taste in music to you - Get off my lawn!
And you don't like the way some women dance. Pretty sure that another thing about which your opinion is irrelevant. It is possible to have a fun and frivolous side while at the same time being serious about other things. I don't trust anyone who doesn't have a playful side.
Anyway, I believe somebody said once something to the effect of if I can't dance, then I don't want to be part of your revolution. Completely slipped my mind who that was now. It might have been Kanye.
P.S.
ffs, learn to embed videos, it's not rocker science. It's as annoying as fuck clicking on a link without knowing what it is. I usually don't bother.
Don't be such a priggish little puritan, you sound like the old dears who fainted the first time they saw Elvis swivel his hips.
I genuinely worry about this for myself. I really don't want to see ripped man chests or get an idea of what the ladies ate for breakfast when I watch a pop video. Sometimes I think shit, I'm a prudish middle aged man and other times I just think fuck it, if you don't like it you don't like it.
There are exceptions though, earlier this evening I watched a Take That vid(could it be magic) and as usual Howard had his shirt off. Hubba hubba!
It's not as if anyone is broadcasting NSFW music videos on Gardeners World, they're pretty easy to avoid if you want to. (Sorry, I haven't had a TV connection in 3 years, I have no idea what people are watching these days.)
Rocker science is the now largely discredited field, in which idealistic people thought they could do away with the automobile industry by developing personal transportation in the form of electric rocking chairs. It never really took off.
Totally unrelated, I spent part of today zipping around the office on a hoverboard. It was fun. Someone want to tell me what the anarchist position on that may be? I would hate to enjoy myself and then later find out that it's counter revolutionary.
Skateboards with no wheels? A bourgeois distraction, probably invented by skateboarder worrier Billy Bragg. And just think of all the skateboard wheel and truck makers that will be made redundant by this obscenity. Hover boards, counter revolutionary? It was never in doubt.
Christ on a cracker man, are you still at it? I thought you had something better to do.
So there we go, twirking you're arse is feminism- you learn something new every day. Thankyou for educating me O enlightened comrades- you deserve some kind of prize and clearly should have medals pinned to your chests like the towering heroes you are. Well done! Congratulations! Bravo! And likewise with the gargantuan giants of anarcho-feminism- Lil Wayne,Nikki Minaj, Dr Dre and Britney Spears! (applause)
I don't believe I ever said Nicki Minaj was a feminist, you would have to ask her about that. What I did say was that you were a well and truly shit feminist if your use your alleged feminism to tell women what is suitable for them to enjoy. Also that you're a pretty dreary sort of person in a state of arrested development if you think that you can wave about that adolescent attitude of being cooler than thou, over something quite as ephemeral as pop music.
I'm pretty sure the artists you listed aren't anarchists either. Do you only ever listen to/watch/read etc things produced by anarchists? You must have a very small cannon of things you like.
My argument is that you are being a complete ass by telling people what they should enjoy and to decide what is good and what is not. It's pretty subjective, yeah?
And twerking (it's spelt with an e) isn't feminist praxis. What it actually is is a dance, you know that thing that people do to express themselves with enjoyment to music. Don't be such a priggish little puritan, you sound like the old dears who fainted the first time they saw Elvis swivel his hips.
So, you don't like that other people have a different taste in music to you - Get off my lawn!
And you don't like the way some women dance. Pretty sure that another thing about which your opinion is irrelevant. It is possible to have a fun and frivolous side while at the same time being serious about other things. I don't trust anyone who doesn't have a playful side.
Anyway, I believe somebody said once something to the effect of if I can't dance, then I don't want to be part of your revolution. Completely slipped my mind who that was now. It might have been Kanye.
P.S.
ffs, learn to embed videos, it's not rocker science. It's as annoying as fuck clicking on a link without knowing what it is. I usually don't bother.
Fair enough, I take your point. You were pretty OTT yourself though if you ask me.
So, I've done a bit of research on Ms. Minaj having previously only seen the Aneconda vid and possibly getting the wrong end of the snake(fnarr). I guess I watched a dozen music vids and only found one I liked which is probably my superstar average, I mean, these guys never really live up to their rep do they? I can't help it, all that ass shaking fleshly overload just leaves me cold. To me the vibe of this stuff isn't so different from the mucky books of my youth except back then I couldn't get past the first page without breaking into a wank. After watching these vids I could hardly keep my dinner down, let alone my pants. Infinitely unsexy all this sort of stuff strikes me as despite her obvious allurements. Prude? Possibly. Old? Definitely. But sexist? Well maybe but certainly not on account of my dislike of this sort of stuff which is so commonplace, contrived, lazy and obvious. I don't this does any favours in the cause of changing sexist attitudes or empowering women. I realise that I can't speak from experience in being subject to gender prejudice but I have an opinion and this is a forum for discussing such matters, so...
Didn't see anything smart in interviews I watched either although that was only 2. Just showing off of bling. Big fucking wow.
For really funny sassy stuff with amazing music I'll go for Missy any day.
We all see and hear something different when we consume entertainment.
I watched the Nicki Minaj video having never been aware of her before. As you might guess the music I couldn’t relate to, though I thought the film editing was good, and was very impressed by the athleticism of all the dancing.
It vaguely reminded me of a Queen video about girls with fat bums (riding bicycles I think). At the time I didn’t like it, mainly because of guilty feelings about liking shapely girls. I have grown to enjoy over the years Groove Armada’s song with the lyrics ‘I see you baby shakin’ that ass’, because of the obvious humour and thinking it great dance music.
If I was fifty years younger my reaction to Nicki Minaj would probably be different.
I have grown to enjoy over the years Groove Armada’s song with the lyrics ‘I see you baby shakin’ that ass’, because of the obvious humour and thinking it great dance music.
Loved it from the getgo, and for exactly those reasons......
I know. I was just being silly. This is all a bit silly. I never imagined I would be having an argument about Nicki Minaj on Libcom
Actually I disagree, it's not at all silly and you should have expected to have an argument with someone if you are into Nikki Minaj- she promotes the exploitation of women. I don't think twirking is just dancing- imagine how many young girls are doing it, encouraged by their parents who are into Nikki Minaj-weird. The only way she is 'sex positive' is in a way that pleases lowest common denominator men. And I think if you are arguing that she is making jokes about sterotypes of large black women etc then you are infact saying she is a feminist- which is bollocks. So I take it back, I don't take your 'point' at all and it's not fair enough. And if that makes me a prude then so be it. Also there are plenty of black female artists out there worth more attention than Minaj. And thats all I have to say.
The only way she is 'sex positive' is in a way that pleases lowest common denominator men.
You don't like sex? You don't have to do it. Try playing Patience.
They didn't say that, so it seems strange that you'd reply to that. They might well not opt to save their virginity until marriage, if that's what you might mean, because among other things they aren't a young Christian conservative female.
In general, though, if people dislike something they'd generally have problems with it generally, not pretending to be an atomised monad. Which is how one might usually react to other things one dislikes, anyway. Obviously, they will not oppose the unleashing of instinct instinctively or without further consideration or reasons. In any case, if anyone liked 'sex' generally, there might be a few people where they are or dead to make them change their minds on this. In that sense they needn't be condemned just for qualifying this. In terms of the general discussion, capital attempts to cater to any instinct, so making a distinction between this and any particular position on these people's part wouldn't seem that out there. Females attempting to please males generically or appeal to them sexually is a fairly old thing, found in many advertisements for example, and they are mostly comparing these, which seems fairly straightforward if it is conceded that they are not a feminist. They would generally be more appealing when they were not doing this on behalf of capital, which they also did not have issues with. Fidel Gastro is perhaps to be excused for claiming that using or 'selling' a person's body as an advertisement for a song isn't particularly in excess of your average female down a red light district - nor is it doing much more by itself, not apparently being 'feminist' or any such thing, than mostly inviting objectification by the male sex and possibly lesbians, which Minaj can hardly object to because as it is said of money, 'non olet.'
The discussion was, then, mostly about whether or not Nicki Minaj can take seriously her own attempts to portray herself as attractive, or not.
In any case, any female can talk about such things, including members of Libcom, but Minaj is only heard saying whatever because capital promotes them, which they hardly put in question while proffering these things. Further, their musical trends generally just tend towards whatever others are doing, in a sense more than other black 'musicians' in such realms. In general this would usually seem to qualify how highly they can be praised, for what essentially amounts to self-promotion because they're selling something. Realistically, on the basis of taking this unquestioned, they seem to rush to give up as much as they can to it, from their words to their body, which might be some sort of excelling, but not a good one.
objectification and exploitation is never a good thing.
While I would agree about exploitation never being a good thing, between informed and consenting partners, I have no real problem with objectification. Surely, it's uninvited and unwelcome objectification that is the issue? Mind you, how this all relates to you not liking Prince and that group of women twerking in a pop video, I'm really not sure.
Fidel gastro just clarify, are you saying that women who twerk are perpetuating the objectification of women? Who are you to police how women dance or blame women themselves for their objectification? How should women dance and behave to avoid exploiting themselves? Would be great if a man could please let us know. we obviously can't be trusted to decide for ourselves.
I don't think anyone here thinks nicki minaj is some kind of feminist icon, but it doesn't mean you can't admire her for whatever else. Honestly, she has never taken up much space in my brain but now I quite like her cos she makes people like you uncomfortable.
That song takes me back a few years to the day Ocalan got arrested and I happened to be upstairs on a bus back to Dalston with a load of Kurdish/Turkish PKK supporters. They kept switching from chanting "Long live Ocalan" to singing "She's a barbie girl, in a barbie world" and back again.
Fleur is arguing that what Nikki Minaj is doing is empowering for women. I am arguing that what she is doing is objectifying herself and other women, to make money. None of those things are empowering, not even making money-because that involves jumping through hoops, especially when you are selling sex. I may be a man but I am informed by female feminists that I know. I wonder how far we can take this 'sex positive' thing? Is porn sex positive? Is a pimp and his prostitutes sex positive? Is unprotected promiscuous sex 'sex positive'? I mean, condoms just get in the way don't they? As I say, there are far better female artists out there for both women and men, boys and girls to listen to.
I'm kind of with you on this one Fidel. You do have a peculiar habit of putting things in a rather snooty and superior way though, which is bound to rub people up the wrong way. I would never approve of such behaviour - I always try to go with the grain when rubbing Libcom posters rather than against it. The idea of my Libcom comrades sitting at their computers grinding their teeth is very upsetting to me.
I don't know how many of you know much about the south korean pop music industry (K pop) *.for those of you who don't, i suggest you take a look because it is possibly where we are heading in the west. In south korea, a pop 'artist' is very unlikely to get a record deal without agreeing to have extensive plastic surgery. Its in the contracts. Speaking of which, plastic surgery on woman's arses in the uk has increased by 250 percent, google it if you don't believe me, so i would say its obvious what effect people such as nikki minaj have on society.
objectification and exploitation is never a good thing.
While I would agree about exploitation never being a good thing, between informed and consenting partners, I have no real problem with objectification. Surely, it's uninvited and unwelcome objectification that is the issue? Mind you, how this all relates to you not liking Prince and that group of women twerking in a pop video, I'm really not sure.
If you are incapable of enjoying sex without objectification then thats your problem, not mine.
If you are incapable of enjoying sex without objectification then thats your problem, not mine.
If you don't mind, is there any chance of you doing us a list of do's and don'ts please? I think I may have been getting this whole sex malarkey all wrong for years.
If you are incapable of enjoying sex without objectification then thats your problem, not mine.
If you don't mind, is there any chance of you doing us a list of do's and don'ts please? I think I may have been getting this whole sex malarkey all wrong for years.
I addition to this could you provide a short list of music 'artists' that you consider worthy or of musical/cultural value? I ain't trollin' here. I'd seriously like to get into this with you.
'Prince is dead': Prince was poisoned by paracetamol. Paracetamol is a chemical produced by the capitalist for profit. The capitalist killed Prince Rogers Nelson.
I'm kind of with you on this one Fidel. You do have a peculiar habit of putting things in a rather snooty and superior way though, which is bound to rub people up the wrong way. I would never approve of such behaviour - I always try to go with the grain when rubbing Libcom posters rather than against it. The idea of my Libcom comrades sitting at their computers grinding their teeth is very upsetting to me.
snooty sounds apt for describing certain posters on here aswell.
You're not fantastic when it comes to reading comprehension are you?
What I was arguing, all such a long time ago when I still cared, was that you shouldn't be all judgey and stupid about what other people like. I said I liked Nicki Minaj, you said in a snotty sort of way that it says a lot about me. It really doesn't. You don't know me (thank god, you sound like a right fun sponge.) I was actually going to say One Direction in that post because I knew that you'd take the bait and come back all cooler than thou about that but I don't think I've ever heard any One Direction, so I couldn't really argue that point. I expect your feminist heroine Germaine Greer likes One Direction but maybe they've just got to old for her now and passed that point where she likes to perve on adolescent boys.
I don't think twirking is just dancing- imagine how many young girls are doing it, encouraged by their parents who are into Nikki Minaj-weird.
The thing about twerking, which you still can't spell, is that it's been around for a very long time. Go look for some video of Cotton Club dancers doing it in the 1930s. Josephine Baker used to do it. It is a common form of dancing not just amongst African American women but also in the Caribbean, Latin America. It's a fusion of African, Latin and American dance which evolved from the Jazz Age. It's most obvious origin is from the mapouka, which is a traditional dance from Cote D'Ivoire.
Now some people legitimately argue that when people criticize twerking, which is predominantly something done by black women, they are being racist. They often have a point, it's usually done by some asshole white person, completely oblivious of the long history of demonizing the sexuality of POC. I'm not actually levelling that accusation with you. I just think you're ignorant and have probably spent way too much time in the company of joyless people.
Talking of which
I may be a man but I am informed by female feminists that I know.
Don't pull that "some of my friends are women" crap. Especially as a mechanism to shit on other women. It's no different than saying one of my friends is black and therefore what I am saying is not racist. Nope. Telling women how they should look, behave, like is still sexist, it is still denying women agency and above all it is as creepy and controlling as fuck. It appears that you are still dragging yourself along on the remnants of second wave feminism, which had it's merits back in the day, but the world has moved on, feminism has moved on, got a fuck ton better, more inclusive, less judgemental and seriously less sour pussy and what's left of the second wave is an appalling mish-mash of internalized misogyny, bigoted terfy and swerfy, and generally getting more and more irrelevant every day.
I wonder how far we can take this 'sex positive' thing? Is porn sex positive? Is a pimp and his prostitutes sex positive? Is unprotected promiscuous sex 'sex positive'? I mean, condoms just get in the way don't they? As I say, there are far better female artists out there for both women and men, boys and girls to listen to.
Presumably you can't get very far with it at all, if you can go from hip hop dancing to unprotected sex in a single train of thought. Firstly, there's nothing wrong with promiscuous sex, no-one's forcing you to do it. Secondly the fact you used the phrase "pimp and his prostitutes" you're probably a SWERF too. Is porn sex positive? Yeah, some of it is. Much of it isn't but some is. But there again you probably get your rocks off shaming people about what they watch anyway.
What is the deal with you and getting your panties in a bunch about women sexually objectifying themselves anyway? it seems to be your fall back position for when you spew forth some bigoted crap. It was your excuse for your vile transphobia, back before you changed your name. Would you like to explain better exactly how you think women should look? You are aware that not all of us like to wear coveralls and berkenstocks and that we might actually enjoy dressing up and enjoy our sexuality? In what way does what someone else choose to wear and how they dance offend you? Emphasis being on choose. Your other fall back position is to use some asinine quasi political position just to shit on other people's tastes in music. Not cool.
As I say, there are far better female artists out there for both women and men, boys and girls to listen to.
Please tell me, oh arbiter of all that is good and holder of the magic list of politically correct artists to enjoy, what they are? Surely in the re-education of Fleur there must be something to swerve me away from my illicit, dangerous fun.
Use the quote function above the comment box. Change the words quote and /quote to youtube and /youtube
Cut all the way back to and including the =
Ta dah!
And it's better than putting in a link with no indication of what it is. I'm not the only person who doesn't click on mystery links.
Actually, fuck it. Pompous? Snooty? Those are just words used to discredit people with high standards and my taste is far superior to that of you plebs.
Thanks Fleur. That's clearer. I like what you wrote but I'd add that there are plenty of English girls as well been dancing that way long before they came up with a name for it. It's something innate.
It would be clearer if the instructions said copy and paste everything after but not including the equals (=) sign. Thanks anyhow, we got there eventually. Ta dah
I am a plebeian but that is not universally true of the users of this site; there are a smattering of petty bourgeois, the odd grande bourgeois and a majority of proletarians. This is what I can surmise, at least. Good day sir (fidel gastro), and please omit Bertrand Russell from your list of eminent Britons.
He served time in British jail so I think we can count him as one of ours, Auld-bold (I have altered the spelling of your pseudonym out of respect comrade).
I am a plebeian but that is not universally true of the users of this site; there are a smattering of petty bourgeois, the odd grande bourgeois and a majority of proletarians. This is what I can surmise, at least. Good day sir (fidel gastro), and please omit Bertrand Russell from your list of eminent Britons.
I'd never heard of twirking or twerking until this thread!
Bertrand Russell had a good sense of humour. Also he was gifted as a peer of the realm, by being immune to arrest (or so I've read). Can any Brit honestly say, "Oh I'm so glad I wasn't born a privileged, pampered arsto with everyone kissin' me butt?". Don't trample me to death.
I'd never heard of twirking or twerking until this thread!
Bertrand Russell had a good sense of humour. Also he was gifted as a peer of the realm, by being immune to arrest (or so I've read). Can any Brit honestly say, "Oh I'm so glad I wasn't born a privileged, pampered arsto with everyone kissin' me butt?". Don't trample me to death.
‘While in prison Russell wrote Political Ideals: Roads to Freedom. In the book he attempted to explain why he was willing to suffer for his political beliefs: "The pioneers of Socialism, Anarchism, and Syndicalism, have, for the most part, experienced prison, exile, and poverty, deliberately incurred because they would not abandon their propaganda; and by this conduct they have shown that the hope which inspired them was not for themselves, but for mankind."
http://spartacus-educational.com/TUrussell.htm
Fidel you are perfectly correct. I was referring to an incident at a suffragette gathering, when on being informed he’d arrested a peer of the ream the arresting officer deferentially let him go. I used to have a collection of his work published in the sixties by Pelican if I remember right. I think he was a radical liberal and there are worse things.
Sorry, you come across as an obsessive prude. I don’t watch stuff I think is crap, why do you?
I do not like the sexual exploitation of children, though we live in a society where everything and everyone gets manipulated and exploited.
You will not remember Mary Whitehouse, every time she appeared on the box it was sex, sex, the fall of civilization, and sex. She became a joke. As a comedian put it, “You gotta feel sorry for someone whose name rhymes with toilet”. The moral is: words are weapons use them wisely.
Like the Fabians, H.G. Wells, J.M. Keynes, G. B. Shaw etc. he was a eugenicist.
What, old Pelham Grenville? Well, it could be worse, at least she wasn't a liberal.
Not Wodehouse, Bertrand Russell. Russell, like Sidney Webb, believed that 'race suicide' would result if the 'differential birthrate' were to continue in favour of the working classes, and that the State should do something about it. And since he liked a good old paradox, in this case he 'reasoned' that biological failure was the result of military and economic success, since successful elites left ' fewer descendants than are left by the poor and vanquished. Consequently courage, intelligence, perseverance, foresight and energy, biologically speaking, were disadvantageous to a race or an individual, and these qualities, if selection continues to operate as at present, will tend to die out of the human race.' QED
Like the Fabians, H.G. Wells, J.M. Keynes, G. B. Shaw etc. he was a eugenicist.
What, old Pelham Grenville? Well, it could be worse, at least she wasn't a liberal.
Not Wodehouse, Bertrand Russell. Russell, like Sidney Webb, believed that 'race suicide' would result if the 'differential birthrate' were to continue in favour of the working classes, and that the State should do something about it. And since he liked a good old paradox, in this case he 'reasoned' that biological failure was the result of military and economic success, since successful elites left ' fewer descendants than are left by the poor and vanquished. Consequently courage, intelligence, perseverance, foresight and energy, biologically speaking, were disadvantageous to a race or an individual, and these qualities, if selection continues to operate as at present, will tend to die out of the human race.' QED
fidel gastro, as others have pointed out, I'm not sure why you're so concerned with how a 13 yr old dances? It's fucking weird. Equally, I'm not sure why you care how women dance - that's also fucking weird.
Also, you haven't given us the list of acceptable dance moves for women yet - are there any? How about that whore-ish ballet - wearing skimpy outfits, touching their toes and shit. Fucking grotesque. I don't want to have to see that. Is ballet ok or is it women exploiting themselves?
When people say that on criticising a society, one might also enquire as to your vision of what is to replace it, they probably don't mean that you have to get the point of specifying dance moves to replace those you are critical of. In any case, by the time a 'dance' is over in most informal contexts both genders blur together and look like wannabe transsexuals, so the femininity or not of the dancers is of little account. It might be be different in Cinderella.
In dancing, people relate to others or attempt to portray themselves in relation to the wider society, so generally speaking it's quite open to criticism, as these relations would have generally been based on those of the predominant society at the time, especially when it comes to those who are favoured by them. In any case, what such pop musicians promoted in doing anything was generally more negative than otherwise, which is why they were that, so dancing was unlikely to be an exception.
It is a good while since I read anything on Russell’s politics. I remember an issue of Colin Ward’s Anarchy which was very informative. Unfortunately I’ve since donated all my copies of the mag so I cannot go into detail. Perhaps someone can point you in the direction. As he got older Russell got more radical though his politics were never based on class struggle (mind you, neither was Colin Ward’s anarchism in my opinion).
The last full book I read of his was ‘Unarmed Victory’, which left me with a sense of his inflated ego.
I would not get too hung up on labels, as they are often misleading and even the best thinkers can be wrong.
‘The man with wrong opinions is not necessarily the worse reasoner.’
fidelgastro has been banned. It's understandable that discussions may get heated, but wishing death upon other users is not acceptable behavior for this site.
fidelgastro has been banned. It's understandable that discussions may get heated, but wishing death upon other users is not acceptable behavior for this site.
He should have been barred for extolling the virtues of Bertrand Russell.
Everytime I read this title it makes me think if the opening to the film Tilsammens/ Together where the little kids are running round the commune shouting "Franco is dead, Franco is dead".
Also, why do discussions about feminism always get so ugly.
There's a great video of Julie Bindel talking about why marriage is unfeminist on the Guardian website today. Worth a watch.
Also, why do discussions about feminism always get so ugly.
Oh, I don't know, mansplaining sexist assholes with tedious Daily Mailesque moralizing tendencies telling women what they should and shouldn't do maybe?
Oh for fuck's sake, Julie Bindel is the worst. Makes Fidel look like a decent human being.
.. interesting, I've never seen it written that way before, with 'fuck' an actual character, reminiscent of Hoban's use of 'hospital' or 'underground' in Kleinzeit.
I wonder if there's another way we could handle someone like FG? I mean, I know he's been a total asshole and that Libcom isn't a free space for just anyone to come and run their mouth but I do feel he has a genuine interest in anarchism and its a shame that his behaviour will prevent him from taking part around here. To feel as hateful as he did when he started wishing death on us must be awful. Call me a sap but I can't help feeling sorry for him.
Noah #239
OK sappy, Fidel was on a mission and could not temper his need to win. The internet can be an exchange or a space for wannabe bullies to give meaning their sad lives. In the end he made his choice. Sad and pathetic.
Anyway, even sad stories can have a happy ending, my sister’s budgie (Lew) Hoad, lived on for several years after Rosewall pegged out.
Noah #239
OK sappy, Fidel was on a mission and could not temper his need to win. The internet can be an exchange or a space for wannabe bullies to give meaning their sad lives. In the end he made his choice. Sad and pathetic.
Anyway, even sad stories can have a happy ending, my sister’s budgie (Lew) Hoad, lived on for several years after Rosewall pegged out.
I'm sure digging up this thread won't be appreciated but I can't help comment on it. Basically, although I can't possibly go along with fidel's insults and wishes of death on other comrades, some of what he says holds true for me I'm afraid. Objectification aside however, Nikki Minaj's whole 'big boss bitch' thing she has going on, is in my view, no less toxic than it's misogynistic, alpha male equivalent, found in both rap and pop music.
Lol, I wrote this silly little poem within an hour of the news breaking. It's quite prophetic but then any idiot could see how the media was gonna pick up the ball and run with it.
Anyway, I wrote it, promptly forgot it and chanced upon it in a notebook this morning. Here ya go, don't shoot me!
It comes as no great shock to me, now that Prince is dead
Talk of his mediocrity will be left unsaid
Now they will blab on endlessly
Saying boy, wasn't he super
Then jerk and jerk until they work themselves into a stupor
His song 'Get Off' is really great and so's the one could called 'Kiss'
But when they talk of genius they surely take the piss?
This jumped up slimy little shit walked the middle of the road
Just how did he get known as Prince when no princess kissed the toad?
So get fucked Prince, you're dead, so what? It means fuck all to me, when multitudes of migrants are drowning in the sea
But this will be forgotten now his time has come to pass
The sycophantic media will suck on Prince's arse
Coz he played the game just as they like but now he's out of luck
I won't give him another thought coz I just don't give a fuck
Lol, I wrote this silly little poem within an hour of the news breaking. It's quite prophetic but then any idiot could see how the media was gonna pick up the ball and run with it.
Anyway, I wrote it, promptly forgot it and chanced upon it in a notebook this morning. Here ya go, don't shoot me!
It comes as no great shock to me, now that Prince is dead
Talk of his mediocrity will be left unsaid
Now they will blab on endlessly
Saying boy, wasn't he super
Then jerk and jerk until they work themselves into a stupor
His song 'Get Off' is really great and so's the one could called 'Kiss'
But when they talk of genius they surely take the piss?
This jumped up slimy little shit walked the middle of the road
Just how did he get known as Prince when no princess kissed the toad?
So get fucked Prince, you're dead, so what? It means fuck all to me, when multitudes of migrants are drowning in the sea
But this will be forgotten now his time has come to pass
The sycophantic media will suck on Prince's arse
Coz he played the game just as they like but now he's out of luck
I won't give him another thought coz I just don't give a fuck
Brilliant stuff Noah. Nice one. Also, much better than anything 'Prince' has ever written in my view. You are quite the genius when it comes to writing dude.
Why, thank ee sire, verily mine cup runneth over. I think you'll find you're in a fan club of one though. If you really like it I've put a few more on the 'Comminist Poetry' thread but they're a lot more introspective than this one which was just fucking around really(though totally true).
Why do you say he was an
Why do you say he was an awful person? Just wondering.
I think he was one of the 3 or 4 greatest performers I ever saw.
Bible in one hand, cock in
Bible in one hand, cock in the other, the little prick was vivid and garish and bursting with energy, and he was a brilliant producer. Fuck him - I'm gonna miss him, he makes me think of so many frenetic, messed-up people and times and feel regret, temporal isolation and a sense of falling upwards in space like you want me to walk right down your halls, yeah, you want me to swivel in your loveseat, don't ya baby, write my name on your walls,....and, I think this is good.
Personally, I just never dug
Personally, I just never dug Prince. Putting that to one side though, as the leader and founding member of the Anti Guitar Solo League, I've got to say that the guitar solo on Kiss makes me want to reconsider my position. Probably the best solo ever recorded and the complete antithesis of the 6 string wanking of Purple Rain!
I liked him like I liked
I liked him like I liked fizzy fruit drinks in that if they happened to be lying around I'd drink them but I wouldn't go and buy one. But a lot of people I was into liked him and I couldn't really ask them to listen to Pierrot Lunaire or The Fields of Sorrow or Lutoslawski's 3rd the whole time, so..
What's with all these celeb
What's with all these celeb deaths though? It seems to be the height of fashion to kick the bucket amongst the celeb community. I hope they all get in on the act.
Great guitarist, great
Great guitarist, great dancer, great performer. Sex, and sex, and rock and roll. The four best things in the world today-- until there's a world revolution, then that's 4 out of the 5 best things.
"Move over baby
Hand me the keys
Gonna try to tame
Your little red love machine"
Doesn't get much better than that.
And the ride.........And the ride....I said the ride is so sm-o-o-o-o-th
You must be a limousine.
It's the sound of young America-- that Motown thought it had locked down.
It's what's in the groove that counts, to quote Berry Gordy. And Prince had the groove.
There are many permutations
There are many permutations in which such a statement could be better, unfortunately one might say. So yes, it may be sad in a way.
He lay. His upturned face was
He lay. His upturned face was now
pale and withdrawn upon the sloping pillow,
since the world
and all his worldly-wisdom,
ripped from his mind,
had reverted to the indifferent year.
Those who saw him alive never knew
how much he was at one with all of this;
and this: these depths, these meadow-lands
and waters were his face.
All that broad horizon was his face
which even now still desires and woos him;
the taut visage, haunted now by death,
is tender and open like the inner flesh
of a fruit rotting in the air.
Rainer Maria Rilke
compared to bowie, this def
compared to bowie, this def has made me sad; i think because i grew up listening to him and continued till now. obviously was a homophobe (when he became a jehovah's witness, in the early 2000s), which he should have been challenged on. but a homophobe committed to an image the point of which was genderbending, who had an alter-ego named 'Camille', and sang of threeesomes with another man invited
never got to see him live, which has hit me hard today.
infektfm wrote: Although he
infektfm
I'm really glad he's dead- a totally over-rated arsehole, and homophobe. His fans are really annoying because they seem to think he is some kind of genius, despite the fact that he was very mediocre. Anything that upsets his fans makes me happy and what could be better than him dying?
red and black riot
red and black riot
There's always "this guy".
Prince was undoubtably a true
Prince was undoubtably a true musical genius, a massively prolific artist and it will be interesting to see what he had stored in his vault, should all or any of it be released. Of all the music I listened to in my teens, there's a negligible amount that I still listen to at all these days but Prince is one of the few exceptions and I was very sad when the news broke today. He was an amazing guitarist and I love his mix of rock, soul and funk. And yes, it was all about the sex. When teen me first saw him playing When Doves Cry on TV I thought this diminutive, non-gender conforming (No, I didn't know that expression then) dynamo in heels was the sexiest creature I had ever laid eyes on. He was a huge talent and I'm going to miss him. I was really bummed that I didn't go to see him when he was in town recently. Doubly sad about that now.
Incidentally, I don't know much about his private life and I don't really care. If we could only like music produced by people who have some kind of lockdown on ideological correctness, we would be reduced to listening to the such like as Chumbawumba and Ani DiFranco. God, that would be dismal.
red and black riot
red and black riot
lol nice take. sorry u are so unfun...
As you can imagine, living in
As you can imagine, living in Minneapolis, this it's a very big deal. Everyone is talking about it. It's all over the news. Completely took over my newsfeed on Facebook. Even Obama made a statement.
The I-35 Bridge is going to be lit purple tonight.
Even the transit system's Facebook page is talking about Prince:
Metro Transit
At the famous First Avenue venue, people have been showing up and leaving flowers.
First Ave is having an all-night Prince dance party tonight. Probably going to be mobbed.
Favorite thing I've seen today is from a Wobbly here who works in education:
Oh, and then there's this:
Oh, and it's been raining all day...
Juan Conatz wrote: red and
Juan Conatz
What if Prince covered Avril Lavigne? That guy'd be like twice the person. It would be, like, Riot x2, or a whole new type of riot. They'd basically be Paramore.
Now if only he could contrive some way of being named 'Diana'...
edit: inb4 'he wasn't named Diana.'
Prince almost totally passed
Prince almost totally passed me by. Learned more about him in the last few hours than ever before. The World Service spread it on too thick last night, like they would rather be hip DJs than news reporters.
Was genuinely sorry to hear about the deaths of Merle Haggard, a mixed human being, who went his own musical way; and the talented Victoria Wood, who could make the mundane funny. At least Merle lived to a reasonable age unlike the other two (79).
gram negative wrote: red and
gram negative
For many such as myself, Prince was one of those people that represented awful commercial 'music' and an awful commercial culture. Problem is, now he's dead, we will have to put up with his stupid face and shitty 'music' everywhere we go. There, I said it. How does not liking Prince make me unfun? Thats ridiculous.
red and black riot
red and black riot
red and black riot Quote: For
red and black riot
What are you, 12 and sneering at the kids reading Smash Hits because you only like bands nobody has ever heard of? Honestly, nobody past adolescence really cares what kind of music anybody likes and your dislike of Prince is no skin off anyone's nose but generally it's a bit bad taste to put the boot in to people who are genuinely upset that someone who's music meant a lot to them has died. People get upset when a favourite musician dies because the music was a back drop to their lives and is incorporated into their memories. I listened to him, watched him, danced to him and fucked to him and generally Prince is one of those artists that took me to a happy place. Your schadenfreude that he's dead and you're happy that a lot of people without your musical cool are sad is just a little bloody infantile. Yeah, he was dead mediocre. He played 37 instruments and cities all over the world turned purple and were filled with dance parties last night so people could celebrate his shitty music and his stupid face.*
Anyone who makes their living as a musician makes commercial music, just some people sell more than others. I'm an unashamed lover of commercial music, my days of being a cooler than thou musical snob went a long time ago. If music is commercially successful it just means that it makes a lot of people happy, not just a select few. And right now you're about 2 minutes away from my lecture on why Nicki Minaj is clearly a goddess.
*sorry, I meant wonderful music and beautiful face.
Haha well said Fleur..
Haha well said Fleur..
Rock and roll saved my life.
Rock and roll saved my life. Prince made great rock and roll. Good beat, and you could dance to it.
Fleur is technically correct
Fleur is technically correct here but there is a difference between commercial music that most see as credible and that which most see a shite. When I say most I mean my peers and unless I'm very much mistaken, many Libcommers. Fuck that shit is what I say, some of my favourite tunes fall in the non credible category whereas the credible stuff is so fucking dull. To me Prince is Superstar material, like say Maddona and many others that have an enormous body of work most of which is tedious as fuck but made bearable by a couple of absolute belters. With Prince I'd suggest Get Off and Kiss as the winning tunes, as for the rest I'm like, whatever. I'd take Macarenna over Ehen Doves Cry or Purple Rain any day of the week.
As for that overall damning of 'commercial' music, well, ugh.
Red and black riot,
Red and black riot, seriously, if you listen to I would die 4 u and nothing twitches in you then you're just a plank of wood with a face drawn on. Fact.
Credible is very subjective.
Credible is very subjective. Life's too damned short to care about whether or not art is credible or not. People spend way too much time navel gazing about this sort of thing. I find a lot of people's tastes in entertainment or pastimes unfathomable but at the end of the day, who really gives a fuck?
Fleur wrote: Credible is very
Fleur
Agreed. As you know I like having fun with this stuff but really, there is just so much wanking off over music. It's just fucking daft.
Quote: there is just so much
Agreed 100%
Auld-bod wrote: Prince almost
Auld-bod
same. i think he came along about 20 minutes after i stopped paying attention. i heard some good tracks of his, but i'm taken by surprise by the claims made for him and all the attention.
Listen again to Little Red
Listen again to Little Red Corvette, 1999, Kiss, U Got the Look, etc etc etc. Too bad for those not paying attention. Plus....if you never saw him live, then really you don't know what you missed. Nobody played guitar, sang, and danced like him. He could out play any guitarist ever; and he could outdance anyone with the possible exception of James Brown.
Better than all that is the fact that Prince made you want to dance. If that's not important, then I don't know what is when it comes to rock and roll.
Noah Fence wrote: there is
Noah Fence
What's wrong with wanking off over music? And if you haven't wanked (or fucked) over Prince's music, then you haven't lived, you silly person.
Credibility? Arse.
Talking of
Talking of which:
http://www.theonion.com/article/nation-too-sad-fuck-even-though-its-what-prince-wo-52791
Would you go so far as to say
Would you go so far as to say that RandB has joined the other side? Is looking down on 'commercial' music classist? Do you think there's something in the argument that 'movements' like modernism were the response of bourgeois elites panicked over the prols catching up with their exclusive artistic culture, "quick Virginia, call T.S. Eliot, Pablo Picasso and Arnold Schoenberg and get them to make it incomprehensible again, the great unwashed are here and we simply must show them they're not one of us!!"? Can music be thought of like this? And can anyone lend me a fiver?
S. Artesian wrote: Nobody
S. Artesian
Or played basketball, apparently..
[youtube]mXRjaLR2L3o[/youtube]
Seriously tho, skip 1 min
Seriously tho, skip 1 min into this video and if you don't like it then quite frankly you're fucked..
edit: video fixed for Ed
Factvalue #32 I have been
Factvalue #32
I have been told the origins of artistic bohemia and modernism was largely due to the production of large numbers of artists after the great expansion of art colleges/courses and the resultant unemployment this produced. These young artists rebelled against the academy system because the older artists refused them entry, to protect their own elite position, and of course access to their wealthy patrons. Abstract art was born partly due to photography challenging the painterly artifice.
The only musical example similar, that I know of, would be the birth of bebop, which was also due to alienating social and economic factors.
Unsurprisingly, previously
Unsurprisingly, previously unseen footage of our hero has already started to surface...
http://youtu.be/M_1ZXYmghhs
Ed - either that's a very
Ed - either that's a very silly post or I'm fucked.
Edit
Edit
I kinda regret framing his
I kinda regret framing his death the way I did in the OP. Maybe he wasn't as shitty of a person as was impressed upon me. He just seemed kinda egomaniacal and sexist at times.
I take great inspiration from his music, though. He was one of the main artists that made me want to pick up the guitar, and as a amateur producer I view his work as a benchmark in using production as an instrument of its own
Quote: I take great
Virtuoso guitarists like Jimmy Hendrix had the precise opposite effect on me. The beginners level strumming and picking of early Velvet Underground made me pick up the blasted thing. I joined a band probably within a month of picking up and was soon gigging and being really involved in music. Simple unpretentious musicianship is so much more congruous to the expression of emotion for most lyrical content than someone hellbent on demonstrating their technical brilliance. Obviously I speak in general terms here.
I've since come to appreciate accomplished musicians, for instance, Jonny Greenwood is an incredible guitarist but it's always understated and subtle. So evocative and emotive I could weep with joy, put Cream on and I'll weep with anguish.
My favourite music is almost always something that can be made by anyone as long as they have the idea, the imagination, that's why Velvet Underground were so amazing - the ideas were there and they didn't have to practice for years to become proficient while the ideas faded and turned to shit. Same with dance music although that does require somewhat more technical ability. If you have the ideas it's easy to find someone that has the know how. You may not play a note but it's still all your work.
Sorry Fleur, looks like I'm as big a musical wank off merchant as those I was condemning earlier!
Fleur wrote: Honestly, nobody
Fleur
Except for their own, presumably. Rushing into things there might be problematic. It seems strange to wall people off such that they can make evaluations of music, but also give these evaluations no validity and grant as much to anyone else or any other music.
Of course, music was not somehow magically separate from the social dynamic of the age, unless this dynamic is being denied in favour of listeners' atomisation, and hence it might well be relevant. That is what R&BR was talking about by then, albeit in a limited field.
It's not a funeral, if they wished to praise their estimation of Prince's fans and their feelings rather than the artist then they could go elsewhere. It's a socialist/anarchist forum, though, so they might be more inclined to mourn people's adolescence.
Just some people are 'better' at making commercial music than others, while others intentionally diverge from the 'commercial music' which they are supposed to be trying to make. People don't make obscure heavy metal expecting to be the next pop sensation, just for that reason, sadly. In that sense they are being intentionally obtuse vis-à-vis the overall system, rather than following its musical dictates or reasons for production. The problem comes in, of course, as soon as in 'making commercial music' they then have to actually make something quite different, and they would not then be able to.
Making pop music like all other pop musicians and this going harmoniously merely implied harmony with the system, and otherwise this would be an awkward and unaesthetic combination which would be recognised as such. It's likely that they generally weren't liked for socialist reasons, but rather catered to capitalist views in listeners along with capital instead. This might have been unaesthetic, depending on your views on each.
Yes, but you need not agree.
Unfortunately, they might only care about such things, rather than the music itself. It is possible. This would at least create a certain tendency in music which was more in harmony with the capitalist system.
If it's played backwards, it might make you want to die - ? Just like Prince playing guitar better than anyone - apparently, and obviously he had to be promoted in such terms - in the past might lead to a similar course of action to most who bother with the instrument.
In this he was perhaps unnecessary, of course. Jesus was already the king of the dance settee, reportedly, and was renowned for their salvific abilities compared to others at the time, who as a result consigned him to poverty and killed him, so long as his ministry lasted.
Insane clown posse, or
Insane clown posse, or International Communist Party?
You be the judge. Faygo.
Noah Fence
Noah Fence
He was notoriouis for suing the shit out of anyone who put anything unauthorised online.
I like how the Velvet
I like how the Velvet Underground and unpretentiousness are used in the same paragraph, intentionally.
Fleur wrote: red and black
Fleur
Fleur- I said awful commercial music, not just commercial. By the way, alot of people like Roy Chubby Brown but does that mean he's a good comedian? I don't think so. Alot of people like the Bee Gees and Duran Duran, doesn't mean their music is good. How populist do you want to be? Nicki Minaj? Goddess? Really? That says much about you.
Zeronowhere wrote: Quote: In
Zeronowhere wrote:
Stop posting and just finish your drugs.
I was once dexterous in a transparent box looking at an old limit which began signalling to a symbol of it at an hour when it, capitalism struggled to be born, but in a dark world of other previous abstractions singing to an aging cabbage outside a phone box nearby.
There were many thousands of
There were many thousands of people downtown last night around First Ave. Kinda regret not going, but had to work today.
Cause of death is still unknown, but there's rumors that he overdosed on prescription opiates last week.
I can't speak about other places, but at least here, he's such a big deal, because he was one of the few really famous people who came from Minneapolis. Also, although he no longer lived in the city, he still lived in Minnesota, in a large complex called Paisly Park out in the suburbs. I keep hearing variations of this from people here: "Even though he became famous, he never left here." I think that means something to people in the Midwest more than in other places, maybe.
Minneapolis used to have a soul/r&b/funk scene, that while often being dertvitive, was respectable and put out some, pretty good, if mostly ignored music. A few years ago, a local record label tracked down some of the earlier parts of this scene and released it. Another label collected a bunch of tracks from around the time Prince emerged and released a small book and album around the same time.
With this latter album, I have kind of a funny story. At the last job I worked at, we were allowed to hook up our phones to the radio and play what we wanted. I usually made large Spotify mixes to last the day. Mostly hip-hop, soul, r&b and funk. One of the songs off that Purple Snow album above had a singer that one of my coworkers swore he recognized. Turns out this singer, who had recorded this track on Purple Snow around the time I was born, still played music, and my coworker, who plays the drums, was in a practicing band with him for a time!
You hear a lot of stories like that. Since Minneapolis isn't that big, any scene is going to touch and involve a larger percentage of residents than if it was in Chicago or New York. It seems like there is a fair amount of people who have a family member who was involved in this scene, and so had some relation to Prince.
Personally, I never really super got into Prince, although I've been meaning to go through his discography for years. I remember he did the soundtrack to the first Batman movie, which is probably when I first became aware of him. He sort of picked up the torch from Parliament, a group I was obsessed with in my early 20s, and advanced funk into his own thing, which I respect. As a longtime hip-hop head, I've learned to respect what came before because so much of that is the foundation that hip-hop is built on. Anyway...
Zeronowhere: Quote: Anything
Zeronowhere:
Absolutely. And the above is a perfect example of of an in depth socialist critique of popular music.
And given that I don't give two hoots about the structural position of popular music within the capitalist system, or whatever, to Noah:
We're probably looking at this from the same angle from an entirely different perspective. It is because I played music is why I value talent and musicianship so highly. I got my first guitar when I was 7. I was electrified at 13. Music was pretty much all I did and all that was important and where I went to to escape. When I see someone doing something so brilliantly and with such apparent ease that I couldn't possibly do with all the practise in the world and if I spent every waking minute trying to master technical skills, that is awe inspiring. A difference between a good musician and a genius talent is the like difference between a poster from Walmart and a Caravaggio. DIY culture is all well and good and it does have a democratizing effect but there's still room to recognize the artists of outstanding ability. You don't have to like them, there have been some outstanding guitarists but I don't like their music. That doesn't detract from their ability just because it's not my cup of tea.
I don't have many regrets really, I don't see the point but that I don't play anymore is one of those. I had a disastrous injury which meant I had to have my wrist in plaster for nearly a year and when it came out it was clear that it was going to be starting from scratch and it would never be the same again. If I couldn't play properly, I didn't want to do it at all. I think that's a real shame now. However, when someone can really play, with virtuosity, I'm blown away. It's like standing in the Uffizi being struck down with Stendhal syndrome, or watching an acting performance which shakes you to the core. It's a buzz and people get their highs in different ways.
And as far as I can see, my taste in music has fuck all to do with politics, although some people can and will construct political theory about just about anything. Not everything I do for pleasure needs to be analyzed from an anarchist perspective. How dull would that be? I honestly don't care what other people think of my music taste and I think it's completely ridiculous that grown adults will pull the I'm cooler than you musical snobbery card out of the deck. To put it another way, act you age not your shoe size ;)
Chumbawumba? GTFO. edit: No,
Chumbawumba?
GTFO.
edit: No, I don't like the Bee Gees or Duran Duran. Nor do I like Celine Dion, Madonna or Bruce Springsteen or a multitude of other people who are popular but that doesn't make me the arbiter of good taste or make me feel the need to shit on other people because I hold the personal opinion that their music isn't good. This is mainly because I am a grown up and I don't actually care about other people's taste. It's very subjective and some of the things you've posted up as your favourite tunes are the sort of things I would chew my own leg off to avoid being in a room listening to them. However, I do feel that taking delight in other people being saddened by a death is a shitty and childish position. There's always that one guy...actually there's always a lot of people - like the ones who wouldn't shut up moaning about Star Wars at Christmas, even though there was no reason for them to go and see it. Pissing and moaning about other people who like something they don't. Personally I find it incomprehensible that people lose their shit over a bunch of blokes running around a field after a ball but it's not like anyone is forcing me to do it.
Let people have their moment when they're upset. It passes soon enough.
As for Nicki, she's got amazing flow, she can really sing, she's smart and funny and sassy and you can dance your ass off to her. On top of that she's totally gorgeous. What's not to love?
And as for you, it says a lot about you that you feel that somehow you need to be mean to people who are feeling a loss and tout your superiority about your taste in music. It says an awful lot.
um, newsflash, capital
um, newsflash, capital totally works with both mass production/consumption and specialized production and consumption within subcultures - adorno was wrong.
harry partch and prince and deathspell omega have all been affected by the market
EDIT: that purple snow comp is KILLER. i'll have to check out the other one
Juan Conatz wrote: I like how
Juan Conatz
Ha! That's not a bad joke at all! I could challenge it but it deserves its 15 minutes!
Jeff - did you actually watch the video?
All of the arts have to
All of the arts have to provide a faithful account of reality in some form if they are going to connect with us and create the kind of immediacy of experience that we ask of them, which is the predominance of feeling over the deadening abstraction of the rigid, pragmatic everyday world which narrows our emotions as much as it narrows our minds. Great artists are not great the more technically incompetent they are, it is not a requirement that they be mad or childlike or visionaries or conform to any corny mass media models. On the contrary, if they have great talent they almost definitely command great knowledge of the facts of the inner world. But they don't succeed in communicating their message by cutting off their legs and using political or other ideological crutches. They're not trying to be good and correct. Music is the greatest of the nonverbal arts, those forms best equipped to connect us with unconceptualised experiences of the ethical-aesthetic-sensual-contemplative variety and liberate us from formulaic limitations of the calculating ego and its worldly transactions which is still present in literature, which is relatively better suited to the expression of our instrumental and conceptual side.
I was completely addicted to music for a couple of decades but I used to fight a lot and had some teeth knocked out and cracked but I'm getting that way again now that I've become used to the front denture, sounding like my old self all of a sudden. As a teenager I used to take weeks off school and go to the rehearsal rooms in the school of music in the city centre and play all day long and then go to lessons in the evening. In all honesty, I was very fucking good, and the better I got technically, the more the music affected me. We don't need less technique and more soul, we need more technique for expressing matters of the soul.
factvalue wrote: Zeronowhere
factvalue
I'm not on drugs. Nor do I like them.
Many people would enjoy being on drugs, though, and it might even save their life. So a strange place to make the accusation.
They are very different, it must be noted.
Reminiscent of Engels' quite coherent, "The thing [calculus] has taken such a hold of me that it not only goes round my head all day, but last week in a dream I gave a chap my shirt-buttons to differentiate, and he ran off with them," except with an unwelcome tinge of a more charitable Erwin Schrödinger. Call it Schopenhauer-esque, then.
Very much like Schopenhauer, but a questionable thing to take issue with in the context. Clearly these 'crutches' do play a part in history and have a place in it quite unlike these 'artists,' who would retire from it to appeal to those of their 'time' and encourage the life they lead. I suppose that I could allow for being accused of being of drugs for discussing politics, though, and this seems to ultimately be a compliment, if a convoluted one.
Zeronowhere wrote: Quote: I'm
Zeronowhere wrote:
Yes of course. Meanwhile, over on the Hegel thread:
The Pidgeon wrote:
to which
Zeronowhere wrote:
Only smoke, not fire, it must be noted.
factvalue wrote: Only smoke,
factvalue
In the sense of lacking desire, perhaps. So was this an impromptu fire drill?
Were you referring to the
Were you referring to the brother of Erwin Schrödinger, who was an only child?
factvalue wrote: Were you
factvalue
If they had a brother, it would probably be Stalin.
Do you mean big Ernst Stalin,
Do you mean big Ernst Stalin, who owns a wave machine off the Old Kent Road? Has a sister in Hilbert Space?
Ones and zeros eh? Bit
Ones and zeros eh? Bit polarised?
factvalue wrote: Ones and
factvalue
They wouldn't be if there were no religion.
Quote: Alot of people like
Man, early Bee Gees were good. Try this one on for size:
[youtube]KCRqAzCevsY[/youtube]
Anyway, I can't say I was ever a Prince fan, but he was still miles better than fucking Michael Jackson. Yeah, that's right. ;-)
Fleur wrote: red and black
Fleur
Have you actually seen this? http://www.queerty.com/prince-discovers-god-says-some-homophobic-crap-20081117
One less homophobic religious nut in the world, what a shame. No gods. No Masters.
Noah Fence wrote: Jeff - did
Noah Fence
Nope, was never a fan of Prince.
I think Fleur is right about art. Accessible stuff is cool, but stuff that requires virtuosity inspires. It's cool to know that anyone can make a film, write a novel, record an album etc and that's the way it should be, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have the stuff that blows your mind with it's skill or scale.
(That said I do find abstract guitar noodling a bit dull, anything where they are just showing off a skill rather than using it to create something leaves me cold. )
Jeff - well said. I read my
Jeff - well said. I read my posts again and realised I was talking shit, I mean it was true what I said but it's not the whole picture. There is actually loads of highly skilled musicians that I like. Lee Ronaldo is an incredible guitarist, you need way more than good ideas to do that shit.
Seriously though, watch the video. I also find Prince leaves me cold but this is a little different!
Red and black riot: Firstly
Red and black riot:
Firstly the OP was asking about separating art from the person, which I can obviously do because I know very little about his personal life and haven't bothered reading the music press, let alone celebrity biographies since my teens. Secondly, I was taking issue with you been mean spirited and smug about someone dying and taking pleasure in other people being sad about what's effectively a little bit of their youth dying. It's not a great look, it makes you look petty and spiteful. Thirdly, you're an adult. Try growing up.
RIP prince obvs but I'm also
RIP prince obvs but I'm also really sad to see such hate for my former band chumbawumba.
I think Fleur is right. It's
I think Fleur is right. It's pretty mean spirited to mock people who are affected by someone's death, and musical taste is pretty individual. There is no better or worse.
That said I do find it strange that people are affected so deeply by the deaths of people they don't know. I sort of think 'oh, that's a shame', but that's it. Maybe I'm just not particularly empathetic.
I'm not a big fan of Prince, but I did like Bowie. However, when he died it didn't affect me that much. The music I like is still there, and he hadn't done anything great in years. Maybe that's just me though.
Still actively trying to offend people isn't nice.
Devrim
Devrim: My personal feeling
Devrim:
My personal feeling on this is, certainly from my point of view, that it represents a loss of something which is heavily associated with memories. I was upset when Bowie died, and quite shocked at this because I'd never had one of these celebrity mourning-type experiences before, because I had so many associations with his music. In the case of Bowie, the first album I ever owned was Ziggy Stardust and I used to play his songs on the guitar and I found his music got me through some very tough times.
I'm not in any deep mourning for Prince but I associate his music with memories, people I don't have in my life anymore, it's a personal loss, not of someone I actually knew or wanted to know but of a part of my life which isn't there anymore. It's absolutely nothing like losing someone I actually knew and loved. I'm not a very nostalgic sort of person but I don't want to totally forget or walk away from the past but I find music associated with strong memories very evocative, much more so than any other kind of remembrance and I guess when an artist dies that I have this sort of connection with their work, it's a concrete reminder that a certain part of my life is well and truly gone now.
When Mr Bowie died I felt a
When Mr Bowie died I felt a strange sort of happiness and comfort. I didn't feel upset in the least. It was probably connected to my situation with my health but my thoughts were one of, well done mate, that's a life well lived. I'd always loved his music even since I was in single figures but my associated memories made me smile as they reminded me of my life which, for the most part, I'm very happy to have lived.
Refused wrote: RIP prince
Refused
No hate from me. I saw you guys at a gig in a squated bingo hall around 84/85. Smart and hilarious! I seem to remember a bass player with a TV on his head and a singer in a suit pretending to be a boss. Am I imagining this or does my memory serve me well?
Chilli Sauce wrote: Anyway, I
Chilli Sauce
That might actually be true, and probably the most earnest tribute a person could give to Prince. You plan on suing?
And, indeed, what better person to give such a tribute.
Refused wrote: my former band
Refused
oh!
Devrim wrote: I think Fleur
Devrim
Atleast Bowie turned down a Knighthood- and wasn't a Jehovah's Witness. Also much of his music and songs were actually good.
so im guessing that statutory
so im guessing that statutory rape is ok.
interesting...is this how you act outside of a message board?
I only know two of his songs
I only know two of his songs and I was so young then, "Purple Rain" and "When the Doves Cry". He's really weird but I must say really talented. RIP Prince.
Zeronowhere wrote: Chilli
Zeronowhere
Touche, Zero, touche.
HTF did I miss this; Devrim
HTF did I miss this;
Devrim
Hahahahahaha!
Noah, do you think I actively
Noah, do you think I actively try to offend people?
Devrim
Devrim wrote: Noah, do you
Devrim
Well, I've seen what I strongly believe is you actively trying to offend people and making a pretty good job of it. If it was not intentional you have a natural talent.
For good measure I'll point out that I'm far from innocent myself but just coz I'm an asshole sometimes it doesn't mean you're not. It just means there's 2 assholes!
I'm really not sure what you
I'm really not sure what you talking about. It's certainly not intentional. I can't think of many things that I do that could be said to deliberately offend people. Maybe I'm just really unselfaware.
Devrim
Devrim wrote: I'm really not
Devrim
Don't worry about it. Maybe it's just me. Anyways, we're all assholes to some degree, aren't we?
Wow! It turns out Prince was
Wow! It turns out Prince was a fan of my guru! At last, I found a reason to like him!
http://youtu.be/UDwTJQuB_WI
I guess I was rather OTT
I guess I was rather OTT perhaps, aswell as inflammatory but I don't really care about his death.
Fleur wrote: As for Nicki,
Fleur
I couldn't disagree with you more, to me she is obviously part of the objectification and stereotyping of women. I also don't think she is 'gorgeous' which is to do with preference anyway and don't see being gorgeous as some kind of achievement like you obviously do. Why even mention that you find her gorgeous? Whats that got to do with songs and music? It's whats inside that counts anyway.
The fuck? You came back after
The fuck? You came back after this time to come up with that? Brooding much.
You bio says that you are a man, which gives you exactly zero say on how women chose to look and act. Nada. Next thing I expect is you will be opining that women shouldn't wear heels or look better without make-up or whatever shitty sexist opinions guys pipe up with when trying to force their opinions on women's behaviour in the name of, ahem, feminism. Massive eye-roll. As the young 'uns say, stay in your lane. I seem to remember that you lamely waved about your argument about objectification and stereotyping of women to justify your (now recanted) transphobia. GTFO, your opinions on how women chose to look and dress are irrelevant.
Yeah, I think she's gorgeous, what of it? I'm not dead from the waist down. If you suggest that people don't notice when other people are attractive, then you're just deluding yourself. Popular music has always had a strong sexual element to it - you do know what rock and roll means, don't you? - if you don't like that then the medium isn't for you. Or you can just go with it and appreciate the sexiness.
That's all you can come back with? That I think she's sexy? No criticisms of her as a smart, independent, body-positive, sex-positive, smart as a whip, funny as fuck woman? Not going to argue about her massive talent as a rapper or ability to produce some of the catchiest, danciest, most fun pop songs out there? Your beef is that I think she's gorgeous. Tone police my sexuality, why don't you?
May the gods protect us from self-identified male feminists who want tell women how to look and behave. And you're right, what is inside a person is what really counts. You could probably do with a little bit of self examination yourself. And even then you can still take your infantile desire to judge people by what music they like and stick it where the sun doesn't shine, which seems to be where your opinions on this subject already reside.
Hopefully she'll be the next
Hopefully she'll be the next celeb arsehole to die.
You are such a pointless
You are such a pointless manchild.
Also, consider your hypocrisy when you whine about sexism and religion to put forward your teenaged view on what's cool and what's not (apologies to actual teenagers who are mostly much more grown up than this) while you're listening to Bob Marley next. Sexism, patriarchy, religious mumbo-jumbo. He had it all. Let's just face it, you're a misanthropist who just likes shitting on other people who don't like the same things as you.
Better still, don't try and throw around your dodgy second wave feminism next time you want to be a grumpy old git. Don't need or want you white-knighting for us, tyvm.
Fleur wrote: You bio says
Fleur
Seems you agree with Germaine Greer's position on men after all- interesting. Anyway, I have better things to do with my time than spend all of it on here, ciao.
Ha! You're the one who came
Ha! You're the one who came back into a dead thread just to crap on someone else's music taste. You clearly don't have much in the way of better things to do.
I don't really give a gnat's knacker about Germaine Greer but my personal experience bears that I've never met a man who brandishes his faux feminism to tell women what they should look like, do or enjoy who wasn't an utter tosser.
I'm with Fleur on this. Hope
I'm with Fleur on this. Hope it doesn't make him/her rethink his position.
According to 'science' you
According to 'science' you can tell things about people's personality and belief system from their taste in music;
http://www.medicaldaily.com/who-do-you-think-you-are-what-your-taste-music-says-about-you-according-science-317388
At best though it looks pretty flimsy to me.
There are some pretty obvious examples though where it would be pretty fair to make a judgement. I mean, if someone is crazy about Screwdriver and loves to sing Land of Hope and Glory, it's not too difficult to surmise that they are more than likely a nationalist shitbag. Similarly, if they are keen on the Internationale they probably have politics considered to be somewhere on the left, or even worse, they are Billy Bragg.
Move away from obvious stuff like this and suddenly it's way more difficult. All the same, some general conclusions can be drawn, for instance, if someone declares that they don't like 'commercial music' it's almost(but not quite) certain that they are a phoney, too cool for school, image conscious nitwit, possibly with a big ego but probably also with low self esteem.
I like music of almost every variety although I find 99% of any style of music to be well below par. There are a few things I have trouble with in which the sound of the music is so evocative of something I can't stand and I'm so infuriated by what that sound represents that it's like poison to my ears. Swing/lounge music a la Frank Sinatra and Tony Bennet spring to mind or 1980s Westbourne Grove trendies of whom I knew a good number suddenly come back to haunt me when I hear The Sodding Clash.
As pointed out, this is pretty childish but if that's how you feel that's how you feel.
Probably the most daft example of this attitude from both sides was when in the very early eighties the hidebound, reactionary and incredibly backward looking Musicians Union were bemoaning synthesisers and saying that electronic music was not 'real music'. As my reaction I went through maybe 6 or 9 months listening to only electronic music. Duh.
Actually, even more dumb was me at the Stonehenge Free Festival in 1984, tripping my nut off through amphetamine induced sleep deprivation of around 80 hours and feeling like I could touch God, I sat in my mates car, whilst Hawkwind, who I absolutely loved played live as the sun rose, because I refused to stand in a field with a bunch of acid dropping fucking hippies! What a fucking knob.
Anyways, I enjoy have a bit of fun categorising people coz of what they like and getting on a wind up about well thought musos but in reality you should just enjoy what the fuck you like and pay no heed to the lives of the people behind the music. Plus wishing them dead is really fucking childish and petulant - just pack that shit in. Er, unless it's Billy Bragg.
Fleur wrote: You are such a
Fleur
I think the childish one is the one who is into Nikki Minaj and actually thinks she is sexy and edgy. Oh yeah and sorry for espousing feminist views and being a man- how dare I.
Fleur wrote: Don't need or
Fleur
I'm not white-knighting for anyone, just expressing my own views, apparently thats wrong and we must all think Nikki Minaj (who I refuse to believe is talented and truly artistic) is perfect in every way and not question her 'sexyness'.And yes, whatever Bob Marley was like in his personal life, I prefer his music to Nikki Minaj and think he had more to say. I'd like some evidence for your claim that Marley was indeed sexist btw.
I feel that an individual’s
I feel that an individual’s taste in music may well be of slight importance. However the role of music in many people’s lives is/was never trivial. It has been noted that very poor people in the USA, white and black, often scrimped to afford a Victrola and some records. These were sometimes played until they were worn grey. I think this a sign that music was an important part in their lives.
‘Even today (1996), when I pass a row of old houses, I wonder whether there could be old records still in the homes. By this time, the precious few that remain have been handed down to grandchildren. I am sorry to say it is dangerous to be in some black neighborhoods now. That was not a concern a few decades ago.’
(Gayle Dean Wardlow, Chasin’ That Devil Music, 1998, page 16)
In her entertaining book on record collecting Amanda Petrusich writes:
‘Just as we sweat over the minutiae of our Facebook profiles and the contents of our closets, collectors customize an identity via the serialization of objects. “It is invariably oneself that one collects,” the French sociologist and philosopher Jean Baudrillard points out in his 1968 essay ‘The System of Collecting’. For Baudrillard, the collection, with all its attendant pieces, is a complex, multifaceted statement of self, and the worth of each component, is determined by how it interacts with and complements its neighbors. If a specific part of the collection is absent, then a part of the collector is also missing. Who wouldn’t hunt down a lost feature as though their life depended on it?’
(Amanda Petrusich, Do Not Sell At Any Price, 2014, page5)
Recently I read that some people were buying LPs to decorate their rooms, even though they possessed no record player. In an age of digital downloads, is this a sign that they wished to own a physical manifestation of ‘themselves’.
Sweetie, I'm a grown woman
Sweetie, I'm a grown woman and haven't felt the need to be "edgy" since adolescence. As for opinions on sexiness, they are highly subjective and your insistence that my finding Nicki Minaj sexy is somehow wrong is petulant and childish. I guess you have different tastes, whatever cranks your handle. Your opinions that judge people by their taste in music is what makes you so childish. You may not think that Nicki Minaj is talented or artistic, on the other hand I think Bob Marley is one of the most overrated artists of all time, so beloved by white liberal boys who never wash their scuzzy locs, but that's just my subjective opinion. I'm not judging you by your taste in music (which I find very insipid btw) but by the stupid things you choose to say.
As for your "feminist opinions" - using then to dictate how women should act, look or feel doesn't make you a feminist. It just makes you another tiresome manarchist who doesn't know when his opinions on women are just not wanted.
Fleur wrote: I'm a grown
Fleur
Bloody hell, it's worse than I thought.
fidel gastro wrote: Fleur
fidel gastro
What you mean when you say she is 'part of objectification and stereotyping of women?'
Fleur- please don't insult my
Fleur- please don't insult my intelligence, and that of female feminists, by saying that this is 'sex positive' or 'sassy' or empowering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs
commieprincess wrote: fidel
commieprincess
I'd say that was obvious.
Fleur wrote: Sweetie, I'm a
Fleur
Are you sure? You come across as very immature.
Yes dear, a grown woman who
Yes dear, a grown woman who doesn't need someone to be the arbiter of cool to tell me what I should or should not be listening to, in the name of ideological purity, by someone who's infantile enough to take delight in someone dying and making some people who like different music to you feel a bit sad. I don't need you to tell me what is or isn't feminist, especially given that in another thread you reduced the experience of being a woman to having periods. You clearly don't have the faintest idea, either about feminism or behaving like a grown up. If my own teenage children were as mean-spirited to laugh at people who were upset, wished death on someone who have no actual impact on their lives, or pass arbitrary judgement on people because they liked a particular thing that they didn't, I would give them a fucking good talking to for being assholes. They don't do these things though because they're pretty decent human beings.
Grow up, you idiot. The kind of music people like tells very little about who they are. Hating on people who are upset, behaving like you think you are the cool kid in the school when you are clearly not a kid anymore does say quite a lot about someone. And calling yourself a feminist when you try to dictate how women should look and behave just makes you look really stupid.
Anaconda is really funny. It
Anaconda is really funny. It was a response to racist shaming of black women with larger body types. It's funny. Ha ha. Meant to make you laugh. Need to have a sense of humour. You got one of those?
Seriously, you're making yourself look like such an idiot. You picked up on my liking Nicki Minaj to carry on with your ridiculously stupid argument that someone's taste in music makes them less than you. You're just proving my point for me, you silly boy.
Tell you what, I'm also a huge fan of Felix Mendelssohn and Alban Berg. Go find yourself a youtube video to post up to prove that they in some way prove I'm a bad commie or something.
Commieprincess asked you a
Commieprincess asked you a question. Go on, answer it if it's so obvious. Or were you just trotting out a few buzzwords?
Another interesting post from
Another interesting post from Auld Bod. Fleur, give up, you're feeding a troll, or wasting time on someone incapable of listening.
Yeah, I've had some fun
Yeah, I've had some fun playing with him this weekend but he's beginning to bore me now and I have some stuff to do.
However, I'll just leave him with this -
http://www.contactmusic.com/bob-marley/news/bob-marley.s-wife-claims-he-raped-her
Which is something which sheds a different light on the lyric of Turn Your Lights Down Low
Saw a cover of Cosmopolitan
Saw a cover of Cosmopolitan or some mag similar a couple of months ago, with a picture of Nikki Minaj on the cover and the headline article "Nikki Minaj on sex: I demand an orgasm every time."
Fucking had me doubled up on the street, laughing to the point of tears, imagining Nikki grabbing some poor schmuck by his, and telling him "I better come....or else, motherfucker."
"Yeah," I thought, "I demand an orgasm every time, too. Which might explain why I spend so much time alone."
I always have one if I'm all
I always have one if I'm all alone.
fidel gastro wrote: Fleur-
fidel gastro
Probably before your time but all the same...
BAN THIS FILTH!!!
In general, Nicki Minaj was
In general, Nicki Minaj was selling something and was doing so in a certain cultural context, with meaning relating to this in general, which Fidel Gastro can presumably be permitted to evaluate. People selling their body isn't that new, any more than selling their sexual activity - and pop musicians were often paid for engaging in sexual relationships with people, so it was hardly a domain free of sexualisation in different forms -, the only problem is that to do this they had to directly associate that body with capital, or use their body to directly express capital, to some degree or other. This could be a bit grotesque, though. In general, Fidel Gastro is describing acts which are directly related to the overall cultural and social system of the time, and hence they can presumably evaluate these as much as they can evaluate this social system, which hopefully they can be permitted on a socialist forum.
Serge Forward
Fidel Gastro is Fidel Castro in spiritual form after their death and resurrection - the logical consequence of Protestantism in other words -, they were even before Abraham.
Fleur wrote: Anaconda is
Fleur
None of those women have larger body types so your 'argument' doesn't work. Sorry but the idea that Nikki Minaj is some kind of Feminist is just bollocks. Next you'll be telling me that Lil Wayne is an anarchist.
S. Artesian wrote: Saw a
S. Artesian
And I'm childish apparently.
Fleur wrote: However, I'll
Fleur
Obviously if thats true thats awful and disgusting.
So there we go, twirking
So there we go, twirking you're arse is feminism- you learn something new every day. Thankyou for educating me O enlightened comrades- you deserve some kind of prize and clearly should have medals pinned to your chests like the towering heroes you are. Well done! Congratulations! Bravo! And likewise with the gargantuan giants of anarcho-feminism- Lil Wayne,Nikki Minaj, Dr Dre and Britney Spears! (applause)
Jesus, Fidel, it's just
Jesus, Fidel, it's just popular music performed by musical celebrities. Why would anyone give a fuck if someone off Libcom likes it or not? After all, it's not the Horst Wessell song they're belting out, for fuck sake. It's just some daft lasses shaking their arses to mundane, derivative supermarket music. Who cares? You need to stop taking yourself so seriously, especially over something as personal yet relatively unimportant as musical "taste".
Quote: It's just some daft
It's not derivative supermarket music-- it's certainly derivative from blues, African call and response, Arabic, Irish, and Spanish musical traditions, but not from Piggly Wigglys, or Carrefours, or Booths, or Tescos.
Not childish, just a bore, a prig, a drag.
Lidl then.
Lidl then.
Serge Forward wrote: Lidl
Serge Forward
This is a good idea. Judge music by comparing with shopping outlets. Prince will live on through this initiative. I'd say that Prince was the naff bling counter at Harrods.
I'd say, it had a good beat,
I'd say, it had a good beat, and you could dance to it, and that's really what it's all about..
S. Artesian wrote: I'd say,
S. Artesian
A good beat you can dance to? Check my shit - no fucker commented last time I posted it. Come on you lot, at least say it's shit.
https://soundcloud.com/annalogic-recordings/acid-allstars-live-part-1
Noah Fence wrote: S.
Noah Fence
OK, OK, I should have said, good beat, you can dance to it, and it's got lyrics.
Yeah, acid allstars got 2 out of three. A bit too much trancelike for my tastes.
Ha! They are all songs with
Ha! They are all songs with Lyrics but we took them out for a live performance at techno party. 2 out of 3 ain't so bad though.
Noah Fence wrote: Ha! They
Noah Fence
Well why would you do that? Lyrics the poetry in the rock
Well mainly coz me and the
Well mainly coz me and the singer are operating the kit, hard for her to perform as a singer and operate computers and instruments.
Here's the vocal version of the last track
https://youtu.be/yfBd01Qi6NA
Serge Forward wrote: Jesus,
Serge Forward
you are right comrade but I'm not the only one- certain people get so intensely personal and unpleasant and immature.
Would it be fair to
Would it be fair to characterize you as more a follower of Apollo than of Dionysos, big fidel? Are you Orphic? Are you, eh?
Quote: After all, it's not
NOW THATS FUNNY! A very prejudiced view but I like it! 'Daft lasses'. Love it, reminds me though that I'll never be a northerner. Shame.
factvalue wrote: Would it be
factvalue
Stone the crows, he's at it again!
fidel gastro Christ on a
fidel gastro
Christ on a cracker man, are you still at it? I thought you had something better to do.
I don't believe I ever said Nicki Minaj was a feminist, you would have to ask her about that. What I did say was that you were a well and truly shit feminist if your use your alleged feminism to tell women what is suitable for them to enjoy. Also that you're a pretty dreary sort of person in a state of arrested development if you think that you can wave about that adolescent attitude of being cooler than thou, over something quite as ephemeral as pop music.
I'm pretty sure the artists you listed aren't anarchists either. Do you only ever listen to/watch/read etc things produced by anarchists? You must have a very small cannon of things you like.
My argument is that you are being a complete ass by telling people what they should enjoy and to decide what is good and what is not. It's pretty subjective, yeah?
And twerking (it's spelt with an e) isn't feminist praxis. What it actually is is a dance, you know that thing that people do to express themselves with enjoyment to music. Don't be such a priggish little puritan, you sound like the old dears who fainted the first time they saw Elvis swivel his hips.
So, you don't like that other people have a different taste in music to you - Get off my lawn!
And you don't like the way some women dance. Pretty sure that another thing about which your opinion is irrelevant. It is possible to have a fun and frivolous side while at the same time being serious about other things. I don't trust anyone who doesn't have a playful side.
Anyway, I believe somebody said once something to the effect of if I can't dance, then I don't want to be part of your revolution. Completely slipped my mind who that was now. It might have been Kanye.
P.S.
ffs, learn to embed videos, it's not rocker science. It's as annoying as fuck clicking on a link without knowing what it is. I usually don't bother.
Quote: Don't be such a
I genuinely worry about this for myself. I really don't want to see ripped man chests or get an idea of what the ladies ate for breakfast when I watch a pop video. Sometimes I think shit, I'm a prudish middle aged man and other times I just think fuck it, if you don't like it you don't like it.
There are exceptions though, earlier this evening I watched a Take That vid(could it be magic) and as usual Howard had his shirt off. Hubba hubba!
Quote: it's not rocker
I've no idea what 'rocker' science is but it sounds fucking great. More info please???
It's not as if anyone is
It's not as if anyone is broadcasting NSFW music videos on Gardeners World, they're pretty easy to avoid if you want to. (Sorry, I haven't had a TV connection in 3 years, I have no idea what people are watching these days.)
Quote: rocker science The
The antithesis of mod science.
Rocker science is the now
Rocker science is the now largely discredited field, in which idealistic people thought they could do away with the automobile industry by developing personal transportation in the form of electric rocking chairs. It never really took off.
Totally unrelated, I spent part of today zipping around the office on a hoverboard. It was fun. Someone want to tell me what the anarchist position on that may be? I would hate to enjoy myself and then later find out that it's counter revolutionary.
Skateboards with no wheels? A
Skateboards with no wheels? A bourgeois distraction, probably invented by skateboarder worrier Billy Bragg. And just think of all the skateboard wheel and truck makers that will be made redundant by this obscenity. Hover boards, counter revolutionary? It was never in doubt.
Oh, they have wheels and
Oh, they have wheels and lights and they talk to you when they need charging. I wouldn't like to try an ollie on one though.
Q/ Why is fidel gastro so
Q/ Why is fidel gastro so dead against sex standing up? A/ The fear that it might lead to dancing.
Fleur wrote: fidel
Fleur
Fair enough, I take your point. You were pretty OTT yourself though if you ask me.
I think 'If I can't dance...'
I think 'If I can't dance...' is usually attributed to Emma Goldman and based on an incident in 'Living My Life'.
Auld-bod: I know. I was just
Auld-bod:
I know. I was just being silly. This is all a bit silly. I never imagined I would be having an argument about Nicki Minaj on Libcom
So, I've done a bit of
So, I've done a bit of research on Ms. Minaj having previously only seen the Aneconda vid and possibly getting the wrong end of the snake(fnarr). I guess I watched a dozen music vids and only found one I liked which is probably my superstar average, I mean, these guys never really live up to their rep do they? I can't help it, all that ass shaking fleshly overload just leaves me cold. To me the vibe of this stuff isn't so different from the mucky books of my youth except back then I couldn't get past the first page without breaking into a wank. After watching these vids I could hardly keep my dinner down, let alone my pants. Infinitely unsexy all this sort of stuff strikes me as despite her obvious allurements. Prude? Possibly. Old? Definitely. But sexist? Well maybe but certainly not on account of my dislike of this sort of stuff which is so commonplace, contrived, lazy and obvious. I don't this does any favours in the cause of changing sexist attitudes or empowering women. I realise that I can't speak from experience in being subject to gender prejudice but I have an opinion and this is a forum for discussing such matters, so...
Didn't see anything smart in interviews I watched either although that was only 2. Just showing off of bling. Big fucking wow.
For really funny sassy stuff with amazing music I'll go for Missy any day.
We all see and hear something
We all see and hear something different when we consume entertainment.
I watched the Nicki Minaj video having never been aware of her before. As you might guess the music I couldn’t relate to, though I thought the film editing was good, and was very impressed by the athleticism of all the dancing.
It vaguely reminded me of a Queen video about girls with fat bums (riding bicycles I think). At the time I didn’t like it, mainly because of guilty feelings about liking shapely girls. I have grown to enjoy over the years Groove Armada’s song with the lyrics ‘I see you baby shakin’ that ass’, because of the obvious humour and thinking it great dance music.
If I was fifty years younger my reaction to Nicki Minaj would probably be different.
Quote: I have grown to enjoy
Loved it from the getgo, and for exactly those reasons......
Yep, Auld Bod pulls out a
Yep, Auld Bod pulls out a banger!
Fleur wrote: Auld-bod: I
Fleur
Actually I disagree, it's not at all silly and you should have expected to have an argument with someone if you are into Nikki Minaj- she promotes the exploitation of women. I don't think twirking is just dancing- imagine how many young girls are doing it, encouraged by their parents who are into Nikki Minaj-weird. The only way she is 'sex positive' is in a way that pleases lowest common denominator men. And I think if you are arguing that she is making jokes about sterotypes of large black women etc then you are infact saying she is a feminist- which is bollocks. So I take it back, I don't take your 'point' at all and it's not fair enough. And if that makes me a prude then so be it. Also there are plenty of black female artists out there worth more attention than Minaj. And thats all I have to say.
fidel gastro #144 You have a
fidel gastro #144
You have a right to your opinion, however your manner make you sound like a pompous ass (twirker).
Quote: The only way she is
You don't like sex? You don't have to do it. Try playing Patience.
A little bit of common
A little bit of common denominator stuff can sometimes be a good thing.
Schmoopie wrote: Quote: The
Schmoopie
They didn't say that, so it seems strange that you'd reply to that. They might well not opt to save their virginity until marriage, if that's what you might mean, because among other things they aren't a young Christian conservative female.
In general, though, if people dislike something they'd generally have problems with it generally, not pretending to be an atomised monad. Which is how one might usually react to other things one dislikes, anyway. Obviously, they will not oppose the unleashing of instinct instinctively or without further consideration or reasons. In any case, if anyone liked 'sex' generally, there might be a few people where they are or dead to make them change their minds on this. In that sense they needn't be condemned just for qualifying this. In terms of the general discussion, capital attempts to cater to any instinct, so making a distinction between this and any particular position on these people's part wouldn't seem that out there. Females attempting to please males generically or appeal to them sexually is a fairly old thing, found in many advertisements for example, and they are mostly comparing these, which seems fairly straightforward if it is conceded that they are not a feminist. They would generally be more appealing when they were not doing this on behalf of capital, which they also did not have issues with. Fidel Gastro is perhaps to be excused for claiming that using or 'selling' a person's body as an advertisement for a song isn't particularly in excess of your average female down a red light district - nor is it doing much more by itself, not apparently being 'feminist' or any such thing, than mostly inviting objectification by the male sex and possibly lesbians, which Minaj can hardly object to because as it is said of money, 'non olet.'
The discussion was, then, mostly about whether or not Nicki Minaj can take seriously her own attempts to portray herself as attractive, or not.
In any case, any female can talk about such things, including members of Libcom, but Minaj is only heard saying whatever because capital promotes them, which they hardly put in question while proffering these things. Further, their musical trends generally just tend towards whatever others are doing, in a sense more than other black 'musicians' in such realms. In general this would usually seem to qualify how highly they can be praised, for what essentially amounts to self-promotion because they're selling something. Realistically, on the basis of taking this unquestioned, they seem to rush to give up as much as they can to it, from their words to their body, which might be some sort of excelling, but not a good one.
We're overthinking this just
We're overthinking this just a bit-- just a tad.
Schmoopie wrote: Quote: The
Schmoopie
What a pathetic thing to say. I do like sex. I don't like objectification.
Serge Forward wrote: A little
Serge Forward
objectification and exploitation is never a good thing.
fidel #151 'objectification
fidel #151
'objectification and exploitation is never a good thing'
If that is true, what is the status of most visual art?
Are you only talking about music videos?
Quote: objectification and
While I would agree about exploitation never being a good thing, between informed and consenting partners, I have no real problem with objectification. Surely, it's uninvited and unwelcome objectification that is the issue? Mind you, how this all relates to you not liking Prince and that group of women twerking in a pop video, I'm really not sure.
Can't believe I'm
Can't believe I'm responding...
Fidel gastro just clarify, are you saying that women who twerk are perpetuating the objectification of women? Who are you to police how women dance or blame women themselves for their objectification? How should women dance and behave to avoid exploiting themselves? Would be great if a man could please let us know. we obviously can't be trusted to decide for ourselves.
I don't think anyone here thinks nicki minaj is some kind of feminist icon, but it doesn't mean you can't admire her for whatever else. Honestly, she has never taken up much space in my brain but now I quite like her cos she makes people like you uncomfortable.
Quote: What a pathetic thing
"Communism...is...the true resolution of the strife...between objectification and self-confirmation..."
Quoted here: http://palebluejadal.tumblr.com/post/117764474878/our-road-map
Ok then Fidel, what's your
Ok then Fidel, what's your appraisal of this one:
https://youtu.be/ZyhrYis509A
Sorry to those that have seen me post this numerous times before but I have a bit of an obsession with this one.
Auld-bod#152 Quote: If that
Auld-bod#152
Fit for the rubbish heap.
Noah Fence wrote: Ok then
Noah Fence
That song takes me back a few years to the day Ocalan got arrested and I happened to be upstairs on a bus back to Dalston with a load of Kurdish/Turkish PKK supporters. They kept switching from chanting "Long live Ocalan" to singing "She's a barbie girl, in a barbie world" and back again.
Fleur is arguing that what
Fleur is arguing that what Nikki Minaj is doing is empowering for women. I am arguing that what she is doing is objectifying herself and other women, to make money. None of those things are empowering, not even making money-because that involves jumping through hoops, especially when you are selling sex. I may be a man but I am informed by female feminists that I know. I wonder how far we can take this 'sex positive' thing? Is porn sex positive? Is a pimp and his prostitutes sex positive? Is unprotected promiscuous sex 'sex positive'? I mean, condoms just get in the way don't they? As I say, there are far better female artists out there for both women and men, boys and girls to listen to.
Your hands must be aching
Your hands must be aching after all that pear clutching, fidel gastro.
I'm kind of with you on this
I'm kind of with you on this one Fidel. You do have a peculiar habit of putting things in a rather snooty and superior way though, which is bound to rub people up the wrong way. I would never approve of such behaviour - I always try to go with the grain when rubbing Libcom posters rather than against it. The idea of my Libcom comrades sitting at their computers grinding their teeth is very upsetting to me.
Ahem. That's quite enough of
Ahem. That's quite enough of yer libcom frottage, Noah.
do you think selling sex
do you think selling sex should be criminalised as well? just i think i'm going to win the second-wave feminist bingo...
I don't know how many of you
I don't know how many of you know much about the south korean pop music industry (K pop) *.for those of you who don't, i suggest you take a look because it is possibly where we are heading in the west. In south korea, a pop 'artist' is very unlikely to get a record deal without agreeing to have extensive plastic surgery. Its in the contracts. Speaking of which, plastic surgery on woman's arses in the uk has increased by 250 percent, google it if you don't believe me, so i would say its obvious what effect people such as nikki minaj have on society.
Serge Forward
Serge Forward
If you are incapable of enjoying sex without objectification then thats your problem, not mine.
fidel gastro wrote: If you
fidel gastro
Right. Yours is a completely different problem-- the problem of being pompous and tedious.
I was with you up till now
I was with you up till now Fidel but you don't like Kpop? WTF!!!
Watch this and then tell me you don't like Kpop. Don't tell these guys though unless you want your ass handing to you.
https://youtu.be/JB_MYvHyPw4
fidel gastro wrote: If you
fidel gastro
If you don't mind, is there any chance of you doing us a list of do's and don'ts please? I think I may have been getting this whole sex malarkey all wrong for years.
Serge Forward wrote: fidel
Serge Forward
I addition to this could you provide a short list of music 'artists' that you consider worthy or of musical/cultural value? I ain't trollin' here. I'd seriously like to get into this with you.
.. and some you'd like to
.. and some you'd like to have a dalliance with, make party with or fondle, same reason?
'Prince is dead': Prince was
'Prince is dead': Prince was poisoned by paracetamol. Paracetamol is a chemical produced by the capitalist for profit. The capitalist killed Prince Rogers Nelson.
S. Artesian wrote: fidel
S. Artesian
funny coz thats how certain people come across to me on here.
Noah Fence wrote: I'm kind of
Noah Fence
snooty sounds apt for describing certain posters on here aswell.
Fidel: You're not fantastic
Fidel:
You're not fantastic when it comes to reading comprehension are you?
What I was arguing, all such a long time ago when I still cared, was that you shouldn't be all judgey and stupid about what other people like. I said I liked Nicki Minaj, you said in a snotty sort of way that it says a lot about me. It really doesn't. You don't know me (thank god, you sound like a right fun sponge.) I was actually going to say One Direction in that post because I knew that you'd take the bait and come back all cooler than thou about that but I don't think I've ever heard any One Direction, so I couldn't really argue that point. I expect your feminist heroine Germaine Greer likes One Direction but maybe they've just got to old for her now and passed that point where she likes to perve on adolescent boys.
The thing about twerking, which you still can't spell, is that it's been around for a very long time. Go look for some video of Cotton Club dancers doing it in the 1930s. Josephine Baker used to do it. It is a common form of dancing not just amongst African American women but also in the Caribbean, Latin America. It's a fusion of African, Latin and American dance which evolved from the Jazz Age. It's most obvious origin is from the mapouka, which is a traditional dance from Cote D'Ivoire.
http://www.dancecase.com/Mapouka
Here, enjoy this little instructional video about the origin of the dance.
[youtube]7yjHSvAwPhM[/youtube]
See, embedding video, not rocket science. Try this - http://libcom.org/forums/general/how-post-youtube-videos-101-31082013
Now some people legitimately argue that when people criticize twerking, which is predominantly something done by black women, they are being racist. They often have a point, it's usually done by some asshole white person, completely oblivious of the long history of demonizing the sexuality of POC. I'm not actually levelling that accusation with you. I just think you're ignorant and have probably spent way too much time in the company of joyless people.
Talking of which
Don't pull that "some of my friends are women" crap. Especially as a mechanism to shit on other women. It's no different than saying one of my friends is black and therefore what I am saying is not racist. Nope. Telling women how they should look, behave, like is still sexist, it is still denying women agency and above all it is as creepy and controlling as fuck. It appears that you are still dragging yourself along on the remnants of second wave feminism, which had it's merits back in the day, but the world has moved on, feminism has moved on, got a fuck ton better, more inclusive, less judgemental and seriously less sour pussy and what's left of the second wave is an appalling mish-mash of internalized misogyny, bigoted terfy and swerfy, and generally getting more and more irrelevant every day.
Presumably you can't get very far with it at all, if you can go from hip hop dancing to unprotected sex in a single train of thought. Firstly, there's nothing wrong with promiscuous sex, no-one's forcing you to do it. Secondly the fact you used the phrase "pimp and his prostitutes" you're probably a SWERF too. Is porn sex positive? Yeah, some of it is. Much of it isn't but some is. But there again you probably get your rocks off shaming people about what they watch anyway.
What is the deal with you and getting your panties in a bunch about women sexually objectifying themselves anyway? it seems to be your fall back position for when you spew forth some bigoted crap. It was your excuse for your vile transphobia, back before you changed your name. Would you like to explain better exactly how you think women should look? You are aware that not all of us like to wear coveralls and berkenstocks and that we might actually enjoy dressing up and enjoy our sexuality? In what way does what someone else choose to wear and how they dance offend you? Emphasis being on choose. Your other fall back position is to use some asinine quasi political position just to shit on other people's tastes in music. Not cool.
Please tell me, oh arbiter of all that is good and holder of the magic list of politically correct artists to enjoy, what they are? Surely in the re-education of Fleur there must be something to swerve me away from my illicit, dangerous fun.
[youtube]=Ryq4H6c0dqE[/youtub
[youtube]=Ryq4H6c0dqE[/youtube]
Like this?
It's not rocket science but it's beyond me and my comrade next to me in bed.
Am I missing something? If I want to make a link to youtube why can't I just do this:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryq4H6c0dqE
Schmoopie
Schmoopie
That song is too rude. They're ought to be a law.
Use the quote function above
Use the quote function above the comment box. Change the words quote and /quote to youtube and /youtube
Cut all the way back to and including the =
Ta dah!
And it's better than putting in a link with no indication of what it is. I'm not the only person who doesn't click on mystery links.
Actually, fuck it. Pompous?
Actually, fuck it. Pompous? Snooty? Those are just words used to discredit people with high standards and my taste is far superior to that of you plebs.
Thanks Fleur. That's clearer.
Thanks Fleur. That's clearer. I like what you wrote but I'd add that there are plenty of English girls as well been dancing that way long before they came up with a name for it. It's something innate.
It would be clearer if the
[youtube]YHs5J9zP0Vk[/youtube]
It would be clearer if the instructions said copy and paste everything after but not including the equals (=) sign. Thanks anyhow, we got there eventually. Ta dah
fidel gastro wrote: my taste
fidel gastro
Libcom finally gets its own plebgate!
I am a plebeian but that is
I am a plebeian but that is not universally true of the users of this site; there are a smattering of petty bourgeois, the odd grande bourgeois and a majority of proletarians. This is what I can surmise, at least. Good day sir (fidel gastro), and please omit Bertrand Russell from your list of eminent Britons.
Schmoopie #182 Fellow pleb,
Schmoopie #182
Fellow pleb, not sure that Oscar counts as a Brit, as he was Irish. Forgive me being a pedant.
He served time in British
He served time in British jail so I think we can count him as one of ours, Auld-bold (I have altered the spelling of your pseudonym out of respect comrade).
Changin' me name! Cheeky
Changin' me name! Cheeky monkey!
EDIT
‘Call me any name you like, I will never deny it
But farewell, Angelina, the sky is erupting.
I must go where it’s quiet.’
Auld-bod wrote: Changin' me
Auld-bod
How about this name;
Auld Bod One of the Most Splendid Fellows on Libcom
Not that catchy but very accurate.
OK. I'll shut up!
OK. I'll shut up!
Auld-bod don't want Oscars
Auld-bod don't want Oscars unless...
Schmoopie wrote: I am a
Schmoopie
I was joking
Schmoopie wrote: please omit
Schmoopie
why?
He was shit at twerking.
He was shit at twerking.
Serge Forward wrote: He was
Serge Forward
This Serge fella is on a role right now.
fidel gastro
fidel gastro
Bertrand Russell could be an eminent Briton, but it would take some pretty convoluted linguistic philosophy to get there.
I'd never heard of twirking
I'd never heard of twirking or twerking until this thread!
Bertrand Russell had a good sense of humour. Also he was gifted as a peer of the realm, by being immune to arrest (or so I've read). Can any Brit honestly say, "Oh I'm so glad I wasn't born a privileged, pampered arsto with everyone kissin' me butt?". Don't trample me to death.
Hey, what about PG Wodehouse?
Hey, what about PG Wodehouse? Probably the funniest British writer ever.
Like the Fabians, H.G. Wells,
Like the Fabians, H.G. Wells, J.M. Keynes, G. B. Shaw etc. he was a eugenicist.
factvalue wrote: Like the
factvalue
What, old Pelham Grenville? Well, it could be worse, at least she wasn't a liberal.
Auld-bod wrote: I'd never
Auld-bod
He was banged up a few times actually.
Well i find the thought of 13
Well i find the thought of 13 yr old girls twirking in front of the tv repulsive myself. Clearly i am in the minority on here though.
‘While in prison Russell
‘While in prison Russell wrote Political Ideals: Roads to Freedom. In the book he attempted to explain why he was willing to suffer for his political beliefs: "The pioneers of Socialism, Anarchism, and Syndicalism, have, for the most part, experienced prison, exile, and poverty, deliberately incurred because they would not abandon their propaganda; and by this conduct they have shown that the hope which inspired them was not for themselves, but for mankind."
http://spartacus-educational.com/TUrussell.htm
Fidel you are perfectly correct. I was referring to an incident at a suffragette gathering, when on being informed he’d arrested a peer of the ream the arresting officer deferentially let him go. I used to have a collection of his work published in the sixties by Pelican if I remember right. I think he was a radical liberal and there are worse things.
Fidel #199 Sorry, you come
Fidel #199
Sorry, you come across as an obsessive prude. I don’t watch stuff I think is crap, why do you?
I do not like the sexual exploitation of children, though we live in a society where everything and everyone gets manipulated and exploited.
You will not remember Mary Whitehouse, every time she appeared on the box it was sex, sex, the fall of civilization, and sex. She became a joke. As a comedian put it, “You gotta feel sorry for someone whose name rhymes with toilet”. The moral is: words are weapons use them wisely.
fidel gastro wrote: Well i
fidel gastro
well stop thinking about them then
Noah Fence wrote: factvalue
Noah Fence
Not Wodehouse, Bertrand Russell. Russell, like Sidney Webb, believed that 'race suicide' would result if the 'differential birthrate' were to continue in favour of the working classes, and that the State should do something about it. And since he liked a good old paradox, in this case he 'reasoned' that biological failure was the result of military and economic success, since successful elites left ' fewer descendants than are left by the poor and vanquished. Consequently courage, intelligence, perseverance, foresight and energy, biologically speaking, were disadvantageous to a race or an individual, and these qualities, if selection continues to operate as at present, will tend to die out of the human race.' QED
fidel gastro wrote: Well i
fidel gastro
Who mentioned 13 year old kids? That's a massive leap and more than a bit weird. Can you not do that please?
Fidel
Fidel Gastro:
He is despicable
It's pretty obvious why I
It's pretty obvious why I said what I said- 13 year old girls twerking in front of the TV is the result of what Nikki Minaj has done.
(No subject)
Snap! I was just about to
Snap! I was just about to post that meme :)
Auld-bod wrote: I think he
Auld-bod
My understanding was that Russell was a Libertarian Socialist and there is a bit about him in Peter Marshall's book Demanding the Impossible.
factvalue wrote: Noah Fence
factvalue
So basically, stupid people breed more?
fidel gastro, as others have
fidel gastro, as others have pointed out, I'm not sure why you're so concerned with how a 13 yr old dances? It's fucking weird. Equally, I'm not sure why you care how women dance - that's also fucking weird.
Also, you haven't given us the list of acceptable dance moves for women yet - are there any? How about that whore-ish ballet - wearing skimpy outfits, touching their toes and shit. Fucking grotesque. I don't want to have to see that. Is ballet ok or is it women exploiting themselves?
Oh and also, you're an idiot.
When people say that on
When people say that on criticising a society, one might also enquire as to your vision of what is to replace it, they probably don't mean that you have to get the point of specifying dance moves to replace those you are critical of. In any case, by the time a 'dance' is over in most informal contexts both genders blur together and look like wannabe transsexuals, so the femininity or not of the dancers is of little account. It might be be different in Cinderella.
In dancing, people relate to others or attempt to portray themselves in relation to the wider society, so generally speaking it's quite open to criticism, as these relations would have generally been based on those of the predominant society at the time, especially when it comes to those who are favoured by them. In any case, what such pop musicians promoted in doing anything was generally more negative than otherwise, which is why they were that, so dancing was unlikely to be an exception.
Fidel #209 It is a good while
Fidel #209
It is a good while since I read anything on Russell’s politics. I remember an issue of Colin Ward’s Anarchy which was very informative. Unfortunately I’ve since donated all my copies of the mag so I cannot go into detail. Perhaps someone can point you in the direction. As he got older Russell got more radical though his politics were never based on class struggle (mind you, neither was Colin Ward’s anarchism in my opinion).
The last full book I read of his was ‘Unarmed Victory’, which left me with a sense of his inflated ego.
I would not get too hung up on labels, as they are often misleading and even the best thinkers can be wrong.
‘The man with wrong opinions is not necessarily the worse reasoner.’
Quote: Oh and also, you're an
Now that's funny.
Oh and also, you're an
Oh and also, you're an idiot.[/quote] that is only the opinion of a cunt such as yourself.
Noah Fence wrote: Quote: Oh
Noah Fence
I hope you die of smoke inhalation.
Fleur wrote: Snap! I was just
Fleur
I hope you get hit by a car
I hope you slip on your mop
I hope you slip on your mop into a urinal full of HIV and cut your dick open
Wow! Well I hope you have a
Wow! Well I hope you have a lovely life and out of concern for someone who would say such things I hope you are a troll that's just fucking with us.
Seeing as you're there FV,
Seeing as you're there FV, are you still setting a course for the Thames next weekend?
Oh, the self proclaimed male
Oh, the self proclaimed male feminist calling CommiePrincess a cunt. Yep, my suspicions confirmed.
Yarp - just need a mean
Yarp - just need a mean sidereal time and local coords Noah, I'll be carrying a copy of the Eugenics Review and holding a feather duster.
High sixes all round then.
High sixes all round then.
FUCK yeah!!
FUCK yeah!!
Fidel gastro R.I.P. Feel sad,
Fidel gastro R.I.P.
Feel sad, like when my budgie, Rosewall died (named after the tennis player Ken Rosewall). Only Rosewall was more fun.
Fleur wrote: Oh, the self
Fleur
Just fucking die you retard
Auld-bod wrote: Fidel gastro
Auld-bod
Kill yourself
(No subject)
What a beauty!
What a beauty!
fidelgastro has been banned.
fidelgastro has been banned. It's understandable that discussions may get heated, but wishing death upon other users is not acceptable behavior for this site.
Fleur wrote: Oh, the self
Fleur
If this has to be made about gender, then it's only a technical description. That probably wasn't the focus.
They'll live, then, presumably.
Quote: fidelgastro has been
He should have been barred for extolling the virtues of Bertrand Russell.
All a bit sad really. Not
All a bit sad really. Not nice to see this sort of fall out. Internet can really bring out the worst in people sometimes.
Everytime I read this title
Everytime I read this title it makes me think if the opening to the film Tilsammens/ Together where the little kids are running round the commune shouting "Franco is dead, Franco is dead".
Also, why do discussions about feminism always get so ugly.
There's a great video of Julie Bindel talking about why marriage is unfeminist on the Guardian website today. Worth a watch.
Quote: Also, why do
Oh, I don't know, mansplaining sexist assholes with tedious Daily Mailesque moralizing tendencies telling women what they should and shouldn't do maybe?
Oh for fuck's sake, Julie Bindel is the worst. Makes Fidel look like a decent human being.
Quote: for fuck's sake ..
.. interesting, I've never seen it written that way before, with 'fuck' an actual character, reminiscent of Hoban's use of 'hospital' or 'underground' in Kleinzeit.
I tend to use it in place of
I tend to use it in place of God, which means far less to me.
With some religious nuts
With some religious nuts they're more or less synonymous.
I wonder if there's another
I wonder if there's another way we could handle someone like FG? I mean, I know he's been a total asshole and that Libcom isn't a free space for just anyone to come and run their mouth but I do feel he has a genuine interest in anarchism and its a shame that his behaviour will prevent him from taking part around here. To feel as hateful as he did when he started wishing death on us must be awful. Call me a sap but I can't help feeling sorry for him.
Noah #239 OK sappy, Fidel was
Noah #239
OK sappy, Fidel was on a mission and could not temper his need to win. The internet can be an exchange or a space for wannabe bullies to give meaning their sad lives. In the end he made his choice. Sad and pathetic.
Anyway, even sad stories can have a happy ending, my sister’s budgie (Lew) Hoad, lived on for several years after Rosewall pegged out.
Auld-bod wrote: Noah #239 OK
Auld-bod
Yeah, fair enough. It just made me a bit sad.
There's nothing sad in
There's nothing sad in weeding out masquerading liberals. Anarchism has been their front for too long. Now, back the original post: Prince is dead.
I love that tune, Lady Cab Driver.
[youtube]jmxkrSIDljo[/youtube]
It's not like he was a
It's not like he was a newbie, he's had an account for about 8 years. He ought to have picked up some basic principles by now.
Fleur wrote: It's not like he
Fleur
True enough, I'm really not sticking up for him at all, just expressing some involuntary thoughts. I'm just glad I'm not that bitter.
And the dude was banned not
And the dude was banned not that long ago for being a teansphobic fuck.
Khawaga wrote: And the dude
Khawaga
An irrational fear of teenagers?
Damn autocorrect! Transphobic
Damn autocorrect! Transphobic was what I meant to write.
That resolves his 13 year old
That resolves his 13 year old dancing girl stuff in a less pervy way than could previously have been hoped for.
Goodness me, did not expect
Goodness me, did not expect things to get quite so weird :-(
I'm sure digging up this
I'm sure digging up this thread won't be appreciated but I can't help comment on it. Basically, although I can't possibly go along with fidel's insults and wishes of death on other comrades, some of what he says holds true for me I'm afraid. Objectification aside however, Nikki Minaj's whole 'big boss bitch' thing she has going on, is in my view, no less toxic than it's misogynistic, alpha male equivalent, found in both rap and pop music.
Auld-bod wrote: Bertrand
Auld-bod
He certainly did, I always find this funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80oLTiVW_lc
Thank you for that snippet of
Thank you for that snippet of light relief from Bertrand Russell.
potrokin:
Lol, I wrote this silly
Lol, I wrote this silly little poem within an hour of the news breaking. It's quite prophetic but then any idiot could see how the media was gonna pick up the ball and run with it.
Anyway, I wrote it, promptly forgot it and chanced upon it in a notebook this morning. Here ya go, don't shoot me!
It comes as no great shock to me, now that Prince is dead
Talk of his mediocrity will be left unsaid
Now they will blab on endlessly
Saying boy, wasn't he super
Then jerk and jerk until they work themselves into a stupor
His song 'Get Off' is really great and so's the one could called 'Kiss'
But when they talk of genius they surely take the piss?
This jumped up slimy little shit walked the middle of the road
Just how did he get known as Prince when no princess kissed the toad?
So get fucked Prince, you're dead, so what? It means fuck all to me, when multitudes of migrants are drowning in the sea
But this will be forgotten now his time has come to pass
The sycophantic media will suck on Prince's arse
Coz he played the game just as they like but now he's out of luck
I won't give him another thought coz I just don't give a fuck
Quote: Talk of his mediocrity
I think Prince slipped into mediocrity due to the downward spiral of pharmaceutical abuse
Noah Fence wrote: Lol, I
Noah Fence
Brilliant stuff Noah. Nice one. Also, much better than anything 'Prince' has ever written in my view. You are quite the genius when it comes to writing dude.
Why, thank ee sire, verily
Why, thank ee sire, verily mine cup runneth over. I think you'll find you're in a fan club of one though. If you really like it I've put a few more on the 'Comminist Poetry' thread but they're a lot more introspective than this one which was just fucking around really(though totally true).
Self-deleted. Tasteless
Self-deleted. Tasteless comment