CNT proposes reorganization of IWA

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Feb 15 2017 11:45
Fall Back wrote:
Ragnar and Lugius demonstrating perfectly in 2 posts what an embarrassing mess both sides on this conflict are tbh.

Good job, keep it up.

Obligatory IS THAT THE OFFICIAL SOLFED POSITION? post.

Ragnar
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Feb 15 2017 15:37

I'm just trying to understand because allowing double membership leaves someone on hiatus and may have a simple mechanism of not allowing officers for example in SF or IWW. It may not yet understand British trade union legislation, but then in what contexts does it serve dual membership?
Maybe I should write it in another post.

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Feb 15 2017 16:20

In Britain there's an "official" roster which you have to sign up to before you're allowed to formally negotiate with bosses, gain legal protections while striking etc. SolFed doesn't subscribe to that roster, but the RMT (for example) does, and has a legal team to consult, meaning that you'll often find situations where people are members of SolFed and also an "official" union active in their workplace.

These official unions are usually what's known as "business" unions, ie. unions which structurally don't consider themselves as based in class conflict but which treat unions as a business, offering legal support, professional negotiation services, industry training courses and suchlike in exchange for people's dues. They have a lot of money and assets which they jealously guard, particularly from the consequences of militant action (official unions can very easily fall foul of the trade union laws and are fined if that happens).

To briefly summarise SF's view, becoming a paid officer in such a union takes you away from the shop floor and represents a potential conflict of interest both when trying to organise (as your wage depends on maintaining the business union's interests rather than the workers') and in cases where, for example, your business union employer's approach might clash directly with the more militant tactics espoused by SF.

That's not to say all full-timers are going to sell out their militancy, and I doubt Andy will, but structurally SF feels it is a better plan to suspend membership in other unions when an officer position is held. Yes it deprives us temporarily of an experienced militant, but it also means that when people come to us and say "the branch secretary's fucking us over" there's no question of whose side we're on.

Ragnar
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Feb 16 2017 00:42

Cool, now I can understund better what happend about this point- Thanks Rob wink

melenas
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Feb 16 2017 00:57
Lugius wrote:
http://newworldinourhearts.blogspot.com.au/2017/01/more-purges-and-evictions-or-change-in.html?view=timeslide

It looks as if the the tissue of falsehoods propagated by the CNT Confederal Committee is coming apart at the seams.

It seems to me that the membership of the CNT were mislead with regard to the nature of the motion to 're-found' the IWA. And now there is a proposal to recall the Confederal Committee.

http://newworldinourhearts.blogspot.com.au/2017/01/cnt-motion-to-recall-secretariat-sends.html?view=timeslide

Do the ends justify the means or do the means determine the ends?

I see Juan Conatz is applying a double standard; attacking the IWA for 'ideological rigidity' while at the same time making an oblique criticism of the SolFed on effectively the same basis.

How long before the comrades in the IWW realise they've been hoodwinked?

In July 2015 the secretariat of IWA was exchanging mails with some unions in Spain that are not CNT and translating to english some texts that were provide to the IWA secretariat by this unions, and then this unions sent the translation made by IWA secretariat to the IWA sections.

So the secretariat of IWA expel (suspend) to FAU on September 2014 because they were having contacts with a none IWA union in a country where there is a IWA section and some months later the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

"Estos son mis principios, si no le gustan tengo otros" Groucho Marx

This information appear in the plenary minutes of the levante group.

syndicalist
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Feb 16 2017 01:25
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the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

Weren't these "expelled" CNT-AIT unions (by the non-IWA "CNT") the IWA was in contact with?

melenas
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Feb 16 2017 01:54
syndicalist wrote:
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the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

Weren't these "expelled" CNT-AIT unions (by the non-IWA "CNT") the IWA was in contact with?

Are the Levante group, to be more clear.

syndicalist
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Feb 16 2017 02:00
melenas wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
Quote:
the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

Weren't these "expelled" CNT-AIT unions (by the non-IWA "CNT") the IWA was in contact with?

Are the Levante group, to be more clear.

Levante is CNT-AIT: https://levantecntait.wordpress.com/category/reestructuracion-cnt-ait/

melenas
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Feb 16 2017 02:05
syndicalist wrote:
melenas wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
Quote:
the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

Weren't these "expelled" CNT-AIT unions (by the non-IWA "CNT") the IWA was in contact with?

Are the Levante group, to be more clear.

Levante is CNT-AIT: https://levantecntait.wordpress.com/category/reestructuracion-cnt-ait/

In the same minutes they accept that they are not CNT because they are out of CNT and if they go to the court they will loose. But they say they will continue calling them selves CNT.

If makes you happy to call them like this nice for you, but even that they are not a IWA section, they were not a IWA section and the secretariat of IWA was exchanging mails with them and also translating their texts to English so they can send them to the sections of IWA when the real CNT was section of IWA.

syndicalist
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Feb 16 2017 02:58

None of this makes me happy, actually. But you guys left, gave the name of the IWA up, others in Sain are taking it up and thats the lousy situation.

melenas
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Feb 16 2017 23:51
syndicalist wrote:
None of this makes me happy, actually. But you guys left, gave the name of the IWA up, others in Sain are taking it up and thats the lousy situation.

CNT is not using the name of IWA since was expelled from iwa, is not about that and you know it. is about the movements of a liar that was acting against sections of IWA. But look like that is something that doesn't mater for you, the fact that in summer 2015 the secretariat of IWA was translating a text to a group that was usurping the name to a section and to IWA, that for you is not important.

The problem is that the members of CNT were seeing strange movement of IWA secretariat and now we have access to some communications and minutes that prove that the secretariat was acting against some sections doing exactly the same that they acuse FAU to do, with the big diference that FAU never hide it, and IWA secretariat did it. The secretariat was hiding this things to the sections.

I think that CNT members have the right to be furious, and to defend their organization from the attacks of some authoritarian people.

CNT stopped using the IWA name after was expelled, and made an internal communication explaining to the unions that we can´t use any more the IWA name because we are not any more a section of it. We are preparing a new website, so soon or late also the website will be updated.

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Feb 17 2017 01:12
syndicalist wrote:
Quote:
the secretariat of IWA was having contacts with none IWA group in Spain where IWA had a section, CNT.

Weren't these "expelled" CNT-AIT unions (by the non-IWA "CNT") the IWA was in contact with?

In July 2015 there was only one CNT-AIT. Any expelled unions were therefore not in the IWA.

syndicalist
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Feb 17 2017 01:27

That's your opinion. Not that of those expelled.
And I really don't care much for your opinion

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robot
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Feb 17 2017 05:26

FAUs point of view concerning the recent developments in- and outside the IWA has recently been translated into English
.

Salvoechea
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Feb 17 2017 07:37

To clarify what melenas is saying. Recently in CNT millieu, has been circulated an evidence about some dark manouvres between Akai and a few CNT members. From those papers it gives light to what these people have been doing since 2009. It makes clear that in 2009 began a boycott against the 10th Congress of Cordoba because they realised they'd lose it. Some unions used the congress to protest against the rest, raising complains of authoritarism and so on.

So, these people managed to join some others in other CNT unions (Levante, Galicia, Andalusia, etc) to create a suitable climate for taking the Organisation. A kind of "Doctrine of Shock", a big internal crisis to seize the committees. They failed, and as a result some unions have been expelled (for not paying dues, for insulting other unions, so on) and some others left. In the Congress of Zaragoza, 2015, those unions called for a boycott and to not sending reps to it.

A part from this. What I've said before is what Benissa Congress is forming: an anarchist federation and not a union.

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Feb 17 2017 13:09
syndicalist wrote:
That's your opinion. Not that of those expelled.
And I really don't care much for your opinion

No, it isn't my opinion. Even if you start from the decision which the CNT made in their Congress of December 2015 and say that they were "no longer in the IWA" or something from that point onwards - even then, in July 2015 they were still a section.

You may not like it, but it's not my "opinion". It's a fact that any reasonable onlooker would agree with.

Honestly, from the description it sounds very similar to the game Garcia Rua played with the Duluth section of WSA, except on a grander scale, and it didn't work.

akai
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Feb 17 2017 16:06

Just to come in here, l have read the disgraceful report of the Stalinist-like investigative commission, which is a combination of science fiction and spying on emails of CNT Sections, past and present. This very much confirms our suspicions about the current leadership of the CNT and when l read the bunch of horseshit here and there, it's very clear that we are on the correct side. The amount of confabulation is amazing, apparently l was plotting with people, including ones l don't even know, to take over CNT from even before l was in lWA. Quite amazing stuff, although amateurish. All l can say is apparently useful idiots are born everyday.

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Feb 17 2017 16:41

People on both sides have acted like arseholes, and every time I read this sort of bollocks "waah you're a liar" "waah you're a Stalinist" I get a little bit closer to lobbying for SF to sack off the lot of you. Fucking hell this utterly undisciplined shambles of a thread full of opinionated, self-serving individual diatribes should have been put to bed months ago, but none of you fucking egomaniacs can stop scratching the scab.

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militant-proletarian
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Feb 17 2017 16:43
akai wrote:
Just to come in here, l have read the disgraceful report of the Stalinist-like investigative commission, which is a combination of science fiction and spying on emails of CNT Sections, past and present. This very much confirms our suspicions about the current leadership of the CNT and when l read the bunch of horseshit here and there, it's very clear that we are on the correct side. The amount of confabulation is amazing, apparently l was plotting with people, including ones l don't even know, to take over CNT from even before l was in lWA. Quite amazing stuff, although amateurish. All l can say is apparently useful idiots are born everyday.

That's why you also have a "science fiction and spying" blog?

"Stalinist-like"? Funny, specially coming from someone who takes advantage of her position to expel unions and does whatever she likes...

Ragnar
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Feb 18 2017 00:39

Akai. The question is How and why are you reading the private CNT-Spain documentation? And later you said that is a "report of the Stalinist"...

syndicalist
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Feb 18 2017 16:04
OliverTwister wrote:
syndicalist wrote:
That's your opinion. Not that of those expelled.
And I really don't care much for your opinion

No, it isn't my opinion. Even if you start from the decision which the CNT made in their Congress of December 2015 and say that they were "no longer in the IWA" or something from that point onwards - even then, in July 2015 they were still a section.

You may not like it, but it's not my "opinion". It's a fact that any reasonable onlooker would agree with.

Honestly, from the description it sounds very similar to the game Garcia Rua played with the Duluth section of WSA, except on a grander scale, and it didn't work.

Trust me, you have no clue about the Rua antics.

Monaliz
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Mar 5 2017 10:20

I dont know understand can hlep to me make see abaot what this is

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Lugius
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Apr 27 2019 01:28

The CNT Catalunya have released a statement declaring they have re-affiliated with CNT-AIT.

http://ainfos.ca/ainfos76964.html?fbclid=IwAR39wKcMqHKdMDUsY9IGCzWEDvjGALH1ElYJzOtQNNStNJKsJ92bF_ZZx6g

This follows on from the expulsion of the Madrid Local Federation last December. My understanding is that most of the unions are also considering re-affiliating with the AIT.

Curiously, it appears one of the members of the expelled unions is the Secretary of CNT-CIT and CIT (ICL). If true, one wonders how one could remain Secretary.

What is left of CNT-CIT?

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Apr 29 2019 16:20
Lugius wrote:
The CNT Catalunya have released a statement declaring they have re-affiliated with CNT-AIT. (...) What is left of CNT-CIT?

Correct me, if I am wrong, but it seems this got nothing to do with the CNT at all. CNT Catalunya is a split from the CNT back from the 90th, wenn a couple of unions in Catalunya had been desfederated by the regional plenary and formed the so-called CNT Catalunya. The only somewhat bigger union was in Barcelona where they had their offices in Joaquin Costa, whereas the CNT had theirs in Duque de Medinaceli. In the beginning CNT Catalunya had some good comrades in their ranks, like for example Luís Andrés Edo. But over the decades they lost most of their membership and a couple of attempts to re-unite with the CNT failed. Edo had a very realistic view on the situation when he told me in 1997 „if we do not manage to get back into the CNT within the next five years, we are done!".

To me it appears somewhat weired, that the now tiny CNT Catalunya joins in with the small faction of the CNT that claims to be CNT-IWA, because some of the folks that were behind the desfederation of the CNT Catalunya and behind FAIs enthronement of JJ.LL. as secretary general in Catalunya and later of the confederation (one of the main reasons for the ugly split in Catalunya) are still puppet masters within the CNT-IWA.

But anyhow this episode appears little more than a footnote within the history of the AS movement in Spain.

Ragnar
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Apr 29 2019 21:39

"CNT Catalunya" = "CNT Joaquin Costa or Los Apaches" that btw lost almost all their members, switching to the CNT.
Joaquin Costa (not more than 10 people right now) join the section of Spain-AIT

Madrid, right now have CNT who has regained the same membership as before the expelled FL, at least, and that's happened because they having put focus in the industrial action (Transport, Graphic, Artist, Education, Hospitality...).
The CNT is surely going through more than six thousand workers right now. I hope ASF one day be much bigger than CNT and show as how is anarchosyndicalist industrial action.

syndicalist
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May 1 2019 16:00

While I’m not a fan of the split in the IWA and formation of the CIT,
the above communique is less than clear.

Either way internationalist May Day greetings

Yepa
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May 2 2019 14:44
Quote:
What is left of CNT-CIT?

Sorry Lugius, CNT is growing faster than ever, even in Madrid, after the defederation of some of the unions CNT is as big as before (in just 5 months!!!) and they will finish this year doubling members.

I´ve been member of CNT since 90s, and it is now that I see future, I see strategy and plans. For first time I see my organization getting ready to face State and Capital, and I will see that with my own eyes. Because our struggle is not a game or a hobbie, people risk their lives and their children´s bread, our enemy has all the money in this world, all the weapons and all the power, we must be smarter than them.

Whoever is not willing to fight with us, shoulder with shoulder, better they move away.

Long live the social revolution!
Long live CNT!

Salvoechea
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May 6 2019 05:44

The new section of IWA in Catalonia, was expelled in 1993 because of a confrontation between them and the ruling section in that CNT, which was organised around FAI. In that years CNT had quite a lot membership in Catalonia, maybe around 1000 people (probably not so many but this was what they said) and the minority expelled the majority. So, in the next two decades there were two CNTs: CNT-AIT Medinaceli and CNT Joaquín Costa, due to their location. Joaquín Costa was quite oriented to social activism (and not so much to labour syndicalism), while the other one suffered an important crisis after the scission, back in 90s.

With the new century CNT Medinaceli was back in live and began to grow, attracting a new batch of young anarchists. And then the Joaquin Costa union of L'Hospitalet moved to CNT-AIT. This was a big change, as this was the biggest union in Joaquin Costa, which was losing most of its membership during the years. CNT Medinaceli (after maybe 2005) was totally oriented to union activism, and managed to grow to some 100 members.

In 2010, both CNTs organized together the Centenary of CNT (founded in 1910). This led the hope of a reunification. However this logic movement was boycotted by the sector of old guys inside CNT Joaquin Costa. They did'nt want to lose their power. And all the young people changed to Medinaceli. Also the union in El Prat. This left Joaquin Costa with no visible activity after 2011. The only thing they do is to organise the May Day, with other anarchist collectives, like this year. Most of the year they do live of a cultural collective with no workplace conflicts.

So, if CNT Joaquin Costa joins IWA is a recognision of their defeat. They join an organisation led by CNT Granada which was one of the hardest one against them.

melenas
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May 11 2019 22:41

There are some things that surprise me about this:

One is that the most aggressive unions against CNT Joaquin Costa were the unions that are now the Spanish IWA section. There was big criticism to organize the 100 anniversary of CNT with them and also to the possibility of reunification. The argument they were giving was that this unions sign with a company accepting workers dismissals.

The other thing is that CNT Joaquin Costa sign a pact with the Catalan government recognizing the Catalan government as the owner of the CNT Historical patrimony that was in General Archive of the Spanish Civil War in Salamanca. Basically the Archive of the dictatorship created with the theft to CNT and other organizations. In resume the dictatorship stole to CNT and this people gave this patrimony to the Catalan government.

¿What make this two groups to suddenly forget all this and join? In my point of view is the pact of the loosers. IWA recognize that has nothing more to do in Cataluña than merge with Joaquin Costa, 4 unions without syndicalist action that are not even able to make a demonstration in Barcelona for the first of May. if you follow their website you will see that there are no news about syndicalist action in the last years. Joaquin Costa keep rolling in Catalunya because they know that if join CNT they are a few with out capacity to manipulate the union in their own interest.

Have in mind that IWA in Spain only organize for the 1 of may this year 3 demonstrations (Madrid, Alicante and Granada) and 2 meetings (Cadiz and Barcelona). And no one had a big quantity of people.

syndicalist
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May 21 2019 19:22

That was my impression that it was the former Joaquin Costa and not the CIT affiliate