CNT proposes reorganization of IWA

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Serge Forward
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Apr 9 2016 19:58

I have my differences with anarcho-syndicalism, the IWA, etc, but this falling out is really sad to see. I hope it can be resolved one way or another.

Admin snip: off-topic flaming deleted.

AngryWorkersWorld
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Apr 9 2016 20:27

ciao,

a longer article on the recent development of the cnt from comrades in spain. they analyse the role of 'lawyers' and other professionals within the cnt and the most recent agreements the cnt has signed. their criticism of the cnt is not 'ideological', in the sense of complaining about betrayed anarchist principles, but from a proletarian perspective: what is a 'class union'...?

sorry, no time to summarise the article, nevertheless thought it might be of interest...

https://elsalariado.info/2016/04/07/entre-el-fraude-y-las-finanzas-el-nu...

zaczek
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Apr 9 2016 21:12
militant-proletarian wrote:
I don't know what your're talking about. Who is relying on court cases or signing up people just because?

You know very well what I'm talking about and there is no mistake in telling who you are and where we met.

zaczek
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Apr 9 2016 21:12

The IWA Secretariat has published the following statement:

http://www.iwa-ait.org/content/publication-cnt-spain-regarding-iwa

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armin.tamz
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Apr 9 2016 23:30

It's amazing how people trust something they have heard, something someone told them, something read in Facebook or a defamatory and liar article from the bunch of guys from "El Salariado". Lot of people trust all these things, even if it's a completely crazy thing.

Everything can be credible except the sovereign decision of an organization of thousands of persons.

The original CNT, the one founded in 1910 and not named "anarchosindicalyst", the one from the revolution, had salaried workers in the newspaper Solidaridad Obrera (they even did a strike against the CNT!!). Today CNT doesn't have "liberados" as "El Salariado" says, CNT pays people for doing some concrete work, as it has always in history done, like economists or lawyers. When you have big struggles of hundreds of workers involved against, for example, the closure of a factory you may need professionals who can turn down the technical arguments from the bosses, this technical work, as a work, it could be paid.

CNT doesn't pay people for doing "syndicalism" or for having any charge in the organization.

melenas
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Apr 9 2016 23:34
AngryWorkersWorld wrote:
ciao,

a longer article on the recent development of the cnt from comrades in spain. they analyse the role of 'lawyers' and other professionals within the cnt and the most recent agreements the cnt has signed. their criticism of the cnt is not 'ideological', in the sense of complaining about betrayed anarchist principles, but from a proletarian perspective: what is a 'class union'...?

sorry, no time to summarise the article, nevertheless thought it might be of interest...

https://elsalariado.info/2016/04/07/entre-el-fraude-y-las-finanzas-el-nu...

The person that write this article doesn't know anything about CNT (not exactly knows that CNT is his enemy). First of all this website is close to a comunist party PCI (bordiguistas) that was kick out of Solidaridad Obrera.

about SO, and the split of PCI-SUT

What is SUT

after putting in context this, the text put as main example 3 conflicts and agreements. 2 of them where sign bay unions that are critics with X and IX congress of CNT. This leave clear that the website doesnt know any thing about CNT and the only thing that is looking for is to criticize CNT with what ever they find in internet. Nothing new, no body give a shit about them in Spain and the only way they found to apear in the photo is by throwing shit to others.

also if you check the website you can find some text were they give support to the CNT tendency of the 20´s that wanted CNT to join the Comunist International, Nin, Mauri etc. that they will finish first in the PCE and then Nin in POUM.

If you read the text in it makes a critic to the "secciones sindicales" and give support to the elections of the works council (of course SUT goes to elections).

The rest of the text is a mix of what ever they find in internet to speak bad a bout CNT. im not going to loose too much time in this text that is not more than a bullshit wrote by obsessive people and the reason that is moving throw FB is that make copy paste about some text of unions that left CNT (funny that some people share it when the main thing that do the author is use them to criticize them).

But what is the main reason of this text that some stupid from CNT are sharing? very easy, there is a conflict in a company cal UDON and both unions CNT and SUT have people in it.

Strike in UDON CNT Barcelona

Note of SUT in UDON

Please be careful with the kind of text we share.

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 00:19
zaczek wrote:
So tell me Proletarian, how has this strategy been working out for you? Relying on court cases almost exclusively, signing up people without caring if they ever show up at a meeting again, pushing the numbers up that way. Any major wins using this bright new and shiny methodology? Clearly not. This is a way of building a mainstream union, so why not join the bigger verdi, since principles don't matter anymore and that would be "less sectarian" and give you bigger SIZE.

Is too much to spend hours and hours with banners and pamphlets in conflicts and then came a guy from Poland to tell as that we don´t do what we do, and that we are reformist.

Why you invent that we don´t use direct action or is secondary for as? When the people came to the union to join it, what we have to do is reject them? make them a exam to verify they are pure anarchy blood? i´m anxious to know how you face this issue. about the conflicts, when a company close what you propose, to go to the company to make direct action? oh! wait, there is no company any more. Or you are telling to as that we have to forget to go to the court and only use direct action? (no CNT union do that, not even your friends that tell you bullshits about CNT, all the conflict that CNT ask for solidarity are also in the court) what do you do when a company close and fire all the workers because doesn´t want to have CNT workers in his company? or when a company close during a conflict? yes all this things happens, and not 1 or 2 times.

the people join CNT and are invite from the first day to take part in CNT live, we send to all of the all the information about the union and try hard to make them take part in it, but not everybody do it. maybe you are thinking that we hunt them and obligate them to join the union to have more votes.

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Juan Conatz
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Apr 10 2016 02:00

Like many of these sorts of threads involving intra-IWA controversies that spill out into the libcom forums, I pay close attention and read pretty much every post. Not being in an IWA section, but being a supporter, these issues interest me. I can't pretend to know all the details, although often even the details are in dispute.

I don't agree or believe these disputes are because of some faction of usurpers or conspiratorial purists/reformists. This type of thing is constantly claimed, but I believe this is a simplification of a structural problem.

The main lesson I get from all of this is that federation-style organization can be a problem. It creates organization wide bodies that legislate the component bodies in a sort of "democratic micromanagement" fashion. It isn't limited to federations either, I saw the same problem in Occupy, and some saw the same problem with the wave of protests, assemblies and occupations in the University of California system back in 2010. Basically, the problem is seeing the assembly as something that governs every part of a movement or its participating organizations. I think this is a very bad idea, and will always lead to opportunistic policing and forcing everyone to go along with you, even if it isn't vital or important that they do.

There has to be a minimal level of agreement to bring organizations together, after that, there needs to be some limitations on what the assembly can decide. At the end of the day, an international-level body is there to supplement and amplify what the regional sections or bodies are doing. It's not there, or shouldn't be there, to amplify disputes and act as an authoritative body that polices everything.

I don't know, am I way off-base here? I know there are serious issues at the heart of this, but at a certain point, you either need to walk away and agree to disagree or acknowledge and accept that conflict may tear everything apart at the seams.

zaczek
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Apr 10 2016 04:27
armin.tamz wrote:
Today CNT doesn't have "liberados" as "El Salariado" says, CNT pays people for doing some concrete work, as it has always in history done, like economists or lawyers.

It's a sign of the times. Even paid union bureaucrats have fake salfemployment contracts.

zaczek
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Apr 10 2016 04:35
melenas wrote:
when a company close what you propose, to go to the company to make direct action? oh! wait, there is no company any more. Or you are telling to as that we have to forget to go to the court and only use direct action?

I was answering "proletarian" so obviously i referred to his section. Regarding your question, the last time we were dealing with a bankrupt company, we occupied the office of the liquidator. Guess what, it worked and people got paid.

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 08:47
zaczek wrote:
melenas wrote:
when a company close what you propose, to go to the company to make direct action? oh! wait, there is no company any more. Or you are telling to as that we have to forget to go to the court and only use direct action?

I was answering "proletarian" so obviously i referred to his section. Regarding your question, the last time we were dealing with a bankrupt company, we occupied the office of the liquidator. Guess what, it worked and people got paid.

So, when a company close you accepted it and only ask for some money, you accept that the company destroy work places for their on benefit. Good worker class positioning. In CNT we prefer to prove that the company lies and can't close, so they have to take back the workers. That's the main strategy of CNT, defense the work and do not let the company to destroy it.

But look like this strategic for you is reformist.

mntg
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Apr 10 2016 10:01
melenas wrote:
the people join CNT and are invite from the first day to take part in CNT live, we send to all of the all the information about the union and try hard to make them take part in it, but not everybody do it. maybe you are thinking that we hunt them and obligate them to join the union to have more votes.

Yeah, that's why there are several syndicates on CNT with lots of affiliates and not even 10% are militants. One example: SOV Valencia, 180 declared affiliates but their assemblies only brings twelve people. They have a coordinator for a conflict which affects several regions (Servicarne) and there's no worker of the corporation in that coordinator.

The fact is most of the "big" syndicates on CNT are affiliating workers for getting benefits of their fees (collected by bank all months even if the worker has not been seen in the syndicate for months) and for having more votes.

mntg
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Apr 10 2016 10:28
armin.tamz wrote:
It's amazing how people trust something they have heard, something someone told them, something read in Facebook or a defamatory and liar article from the bunch of guys from "El Salariado". Lot of people trust all these things, even if it's a completely crazy thing.

And we should believe the fanboys of CNT, whose only tactic is denying all and saying it's all a conspiracy of the enemies of CNT, on a way that remembers the old excuses of USSR? I've seen the fanatics of CNT denying again and again the fact that CNT take part on syndical elections in Sevilla, even with an internal investigation comission proving it true. The answer of CNT? To expel the accusers arguing that they were making non-proven accusations.

You have no more credibility.

Quote:
The original CNT, the one founded in 1910 and not named "anarchosindicalyst", the one from the revolution, had salaried workers in the newspaper Solidaridad Obrera (they even did a strike against the CNT!!).

That's exactly why CNT should not have any worker. When you exercise an employer role, you will have to act like any other employer, exploiting your workers and becoming your own enemy. But it seems that the modern CNT has decided to copy all the bad things of the old CNT, not the good ones, because now CNT has several people (one of them, the wife of the general secretary of CNT) living by the fees of the workers and they're even thinking on raising the fees to give more money to this unnecesary office...

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 10:57
mntg wrote:
melenas wrote:
the people join CNT and are invite from the first day to take part in CNT live, we send to all of the all the information about the union and try hard to make them take part in it, but not everybody do it. maybe you are thinking that we hunt them and obligate them to join the union to have more votes.

Yeah, that's why there are several syndicates on CNT with lots of affiliates and not even 10% are militants. One example: SOV Valencia, 180 declared affiliates but their assemblies only brings twelve people. They have a coordinator for a conflict which affects several regions (Servicarne) and there's no worker of the corporation in that coordinator.

The fact is most of the "big" syndicates on CNT are affiliating workers for getting benefits of their fees (collected by bank all months even if the worker has not been seen in the syndicate for months) and for having more votes.

Servicarne? Please do not lie, the coordinator is worker of that company, i go farther he had to change the place where he has living because the company move him as a way of repression. i know him personally.

so you defend to reject workers that wants to join CNT. Maybe you forget that CNT is not a affinity group, is a workers union. Also is tired to have people speaking about the reality of unions that they are not part of and they doesn't know a shit about them. i listen things about my lokal union wrote in internet that have nothing in common with reality, but if you like to lie about other unions to try to defend your position, perfect, all yours.

Quote:
And we should believe the fanboys of CNT, whose only tactic is denying all and saying it's all a conspiracy of the enemies of CNT, on a way that remembers the old excuses of USSR? I've seen the fanatics of CNT denying again and again the fact that CNT take part on syndical elections in Sevilla, even with an internal investigation comission proving it true. The answer of CNT? To expel the accusers arguing that they were making non-proven accusations.

You have no more credibility.

I´m still waiting that list of members of CNT that take part in elections, because the only time that had happen that the people was expelled from CNT. Please provide this info to your union because we are interested in it. like always is more nice to throw shit in internet that to put the facts on paper and give them to know to the unions. maybe because the facts doesn't exist, ones again.

I like when the CNT haters use a text of the bordiguistas of SUT to attack all the organization, you leave clear your level and your total ignorance about the union.

mntg
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Apr 10 2016 10:56

To the comrades of the IWA: CNT has blackmailed you, CNT is making sabotage against you by no paying to the IWA (even having more than enough money), CNT is defaming you on public and now CNT wants to replace you with a parallel reformist IWA. Are you gonna do annything about that?

In their last congress, CNT discussed the idea of making and ultimatum for IWA: "if the IWA doesn't approve our voting system and all of our demands, we will leave the IWA". There was another proposal: to "relaunch" the IWA, which is an euphemism of making a parallel IWA. The results of the votes were 42% first option, 50% second option.

There were several syndicates which didn't take part of that Congress because they saw it was a sham, so they didn't vote that topic. There are also about 20 IWA-favorable syndicates expelled out of CNT. You're not losing your presence in Spain, there's people here defending the IWA, but CNT has declared a war against you and you have to take steps to confront this.

mntg
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Apr 10 2016 11:18
melenas wrote:
Servicarne? Please do not lie, the coordinator is worker of that company, i go farther he had to change the place where he has living because the company move him as a way of repression. i know him personally.

False. There's no worker of Servicarne in the coordinating group created, which also has pushed aside the comrades of Leon because Leon is a non-reformist syndicate (you talked about rejecting workers?). And about "rejecting workers", that's not the topic and I've never said that, what I say is that some of the "big" syndicates of CNT are not doing any effort to getting implication of the workers because they don't want militancy, they only want money and votes. The best example: Sevilla, which declared almost 500 affiliates but an investigation comission confirmed only the existence of over 200.

Quote:
I´m still waiting that list of members of CNT that take part in elections, because the only time that had happen that the people was expelled from CNT. Please provide this info to your union because we are interested in it.

CNT Sevilla, created a parallel syndicate (SAC) with people and resources of CNT, for getting CNT members inside the enterprise committee of AUSSA corporation, through the syndical elections. I can give you names: admin: personal information removed. Never reveal comrades' personal information on libcom, this is a warning ... There were no expulsions of those people, only temporal disqualification, but the comrades of Motril and several comrades of Sevilla were expelled for reporting the facts and confront the corruption of Sevilla.

Of course, now you will accuse me of publishing private information and even will try to delete this message. That's the eternal tactic: you say all is false, you challenge to prove it, and when someone makes it you charge him for making public "internal affairs". Well, you're defaming IWA on public, so you have to expect this.

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 17:28

The comrade that is the coordinator of the workers of servicarne use to live in miranda and be part that union, then move to vitoria because his company was located there. Then servicarne as an act of repression send him to work to a town near valencia and there continue the repression of the company, 3 comrades fired. He works in the company and you are not more than a liar that attack comrades that suffer repression because their sidicalist action to try to defend your position. MISERABLE.

mntg
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Apr 10 2016 12:04

I'm not attacking any of the workers of Servicarne. I've only said that no worker of Servicarne is member of the coordinating group, and that the coordinating group is monopolized by Valencia which is pushing aside the comrades of Leon because they don't agree with the idiosyncrasy of SOV Leon. Maybe you should learn to read, and stop making demagogy.

You say nothing about the corruption in Sevilla, tolerated and hidden by the rest of CNT? What a surprise...

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 12:12

You wrote that the coordinator is not from servicarne and now you say that the coordination group doesn't have workers of servicarne. Both are lies.

If the workers of CNT leon doesn't want to take part in the coordination is their decision. They can't obligate the rest to organize them selves how ever they want.

Maybe you should learn to read what you write and the meaning of what you write.

Lets finish first with this and then we will speak bout your friend pay by the right party of sevilla and the one of the communist party.

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libcom
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Apr 10 2016 13:18

Sleeper, militant proletarian, serge forward: this is a warning for flaming. Akai, it's also unhelpful for you to just denigrate people as "trolls", and for others it unhelpful to personally insult Akai. For everyone on here, please follow our posting guidelines and address people's arguments and comments, not people individually.

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Steven.
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Apr 10 2016 13:40

Good posts by robot and Juan Conatz.

In terms of CNT members' criticisms of Akai, some of these are not valid. Trying to paint her or ZSP as people who don't do anything practical or exist only on the internet is clearly false, as those of us who are regular libcom readers at least will have followed for years all the great activities and fights they have been involved in. And we should acknowledge the incredibly difficult circumstances they work in in Eastern Europe.

The Spanish comrade who stated that the memory of social revolution in Spain was wiped out by Franco, sorry but that is just not true, and that's not how history works. Of course Franco's 37 year dictatorship had an impact. But then so did the Soviet dictatorship in Eastern Europe, which lasted much longer. And as the Eastern European comrades have pointed out: this dictatorship was in the name of the workers and communism, whereas the one in Spain was explicitly against this.

We are not starting from a level playing field. I mean come on, the CNT after the fall of the dictatorship in 1976 claimed to have 500,000 members. I'm not sure if any anarchist group in Poland has ever had more than 500 members, and certainly not in the past 40 years.

And as for the insults that Akai is "the worst secretary ever", this is also uncalled for. For starters no general secretary should have power to actually do anything harmful. Certainly it seems in her role she has done a lot to help some groups internationally, and elsewhere has followed out the mandate given to her, so cannot be held personally responsible for that. If like the CNT comrades are saying she really is so bad then why has she not been recalled by the membership?

That said, on the flipside Akai has made specific allegations against the CNT which people have stated are false. One in particular was that the CNT had more paid officials than the SAC. If this is not true, then I would agree that it is unacceptable for the general secretary of a federation to inaccurately defame one of the groups in it.

So is this true? Akai, how many paid officials do you state the CNT has, and what are they doing? Then people in the CNT can respond. Like I said above, I think this situation is very unfortunate. However it seems that something like this was unavoidably going to arise at some point. As robot pointed out, the requirement around communications to be carried out through individual sections in each country is completely bureaucratic and utterly unsuited for the modern world (if it ever was).

However it seems that various parties - particularly the CNTE and the USI - have wanted to keep this requirement to stop other sections communicating with their rivals (CGT and the loony fake USI).

So given that this silly rule exists, it does seem unfair that the ban on communication is enforced when it concerns rivals of the CNTE and USI, but not when it concerns rivals of ZSP. So while I may disagree with the suspension of the FAU, it certainly seems to have been done within the rules of the IWA.

I guess the current voting rules with one section 1 vote mean the CNT has been unable to get its way, so the only way it can is if it starts a breakaway IWA and changes the voting rules from the get go.

I think this is an unfortunate way to go. What would seemed more sensible would be to form a commission from across the International to try to come up with a mutually agreeable new voting formula, which can then be put to Congress.

I guess we'll see what happens. The biggest danger I think is if and effective split occurs in the IWA, and then national sections in each country split as well going with rival IWA factions. This could be disastrous, and affect real on-the-job organising in some countries.

Also I think a further danger is that if the "refounded" CNT IWA keeps ridiculous 19th-century rules on communication then these arguments are going to come up again.

Edited to add that yet another possible issue with this will be the inevitable fallout over resources with a split. With the CNT trying to get the IWA trademarked, I guess that opens the possibility for lawsuits over ownership of the "brand", not to mention collective resources like bank accounts and the website. This could divert a lot of energy and resources away from actual working class struggles, at a really bad time, so I hope whatever happens both sides work together to prevent this from occurring.

satawal
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Apr 10 2016 13:44

I have no personal knowledge of this issue and thus have no position on it what so ever. However admins please delete the following:

" I can give you names: admin: names already removed ..."

We should be better than this.

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militant-proletarian
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Apr 10 2016 15:04
zaczek wrote:
melenas wrote:
when a company close what you propose, to go to the company to make direct action? oh! wait, there is no company any more. Or you are telling to as that we have to forget to go to the court and only use direct action?

I was answering "proletarian" so obviously i referred to his section. Regarding your question, the last time we were dealing with a bankrupt company, we occupied the office of the liquidator. Guess what, it worked and people got paid.

I still don't know what your're talking about. I don't know who you are and doubt very much you know me. Anyway, I'm glad you're so anarchist and your pamphlet-occupation strategy worked only for the workers to be paid, with no lawyers, trials or other shitty bourgeois stuff. Really, I'm happy for you, but as far as I know anarchosyndicalism is a tool to struggle from within factories, companies and so on, and your strategy only worked to get money for workers. I don't know the details of your example, but if what you highlight is only the money issue and nothing about the lock-out, thanks I prefer to continue fighting for jobs and union delegates and sections.

Theses were achieved by the CNT "paid" members, check it out:

Declarado nulo el ERE Madrid Río ¡Porque luchar sí sirve!

Convenio colectivo en Levante

s.nappalos
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Apr 10 2016 15:09

On the CNT expelling sections. I could be wrong, some of that appears to be bombastic. A few years back the IWW changed it's requirements of our equivalent of SOVs similar to what it appears CNT did. The logic was that it's better for members to focus on organizing until they have the strength to do bureaucratic things like reporting, deal with a bank account, have a secretary/treasurer. It's exponentially harder for a group of 5 than a group of 15 to do that. Some of the little branches didn't make it. One difference I think there is that the IWW has individual membership so they remained members but lost defunct and inactive branches (if they couldn't convince a small handful of people to maintain membership).

So maybe in the CNT's case some SOVs didn't make the cut, but there should be clarification. Are those branches merely the ones that couldn't even manage to get 10 more people to join?Excluding the examples someone listed of vote rigging and weed brownie distributing ones. If so, that's hardly splits or expulsions.

IMHO mixed branch locals are a general issue for our movement. They tend to be havens for the worst things like activist drama, people who never have any intention of organizing their workplace or others, and subcultural activity tied to general leftism more than anarchosyndicalism. The IWW for all its fuckupery did wages an internal battle to abolish mixed locals from 1916 onward. They have a role, but there's also some inherent tensions there that are unresolved.

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 17:23
Steven. wrote:
Good posts by robot and Juan Conatz.

However it seems that various parties - particularly the CNTE and the USI - have wanted to keep this requirement to stop other sections communicating with their rivals (CGT and the loony fake USI).

So given that this silly rule exists, it does seem unfair that the ban on communication is enforced when it concerns rivals of the CNTE and USI, but not when it concerns rivals of ZSP. So while I may disagree with the suspension of the FAU, it certainly seems to have been done within the rules of the IWA.

Lets explain this a bit better, because maybe is not so clear in the text of CNT.

The proposal with the title "Autonomy, openness, and dynamism"

Quote:
The sections have the autonomy to have temporary relationships in the course of their labor conflicts.

In international work we should always use the name of the Chapter next to the acronym for the International (IWA-AIT). In this way we can limit the self-interested use of a section’s name by outside groups. Any kind of external contact will be made with good faith and maximum transparency.

This proposal which was explained to the unions with a example exactly about CGT and FAU. In it was describe that no union can put a limit to the syndicalist action of other section, and if FAU because a conflict has to contact with CGT, CNT cant ban it, the opposite, CNT have to work together with FAU in that conflict and take part in the actions and contact with CGT to try to promote the anarchosindicalist action in that company, so we have 2 benefits, one the fight of FAU and the other to promote CNT inside of the company between the workers.

So what i understand is that had changed this position in CNT. Whats happen is that when FAU asked the position approve was that no contact was allowed, and CNT delegates only transmit the CNT agreements in that moment. People have to understand that from now this is they way that works CNT.

About the voting proposal, is not as important as maybe look like outside. CNT only is coherent with the way it works and put it as part of the proposals. As i said, are no more than proposals of CNT, no one is obligatory, is more important that the international works good and in an anarchosindicalist way and is useful for the class war than the proportional vote.

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OliverTwister
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Apr 10 2016 15:15
Quote:
The Spanish comrade who stated that the memory of social revolution in Spain was wiped out by Franco, sorry but that is just not true, and that's not how history works.

It's really fortunate that Spanish comrades have people to Spanish society to them.

melenas
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Apr 10 2016 15:26
s.nappalos wrote:

So maybe in the CNT's case some SOVs didn't make the cut, but there should be clarification. Are those branches merely the ones that couldn't even manage to get 10 more people to join?Excluding the examples someone listed of vote rigging and weed brownie distributing ones. If so, that's hardly splits or expulsions.

I´m not sure if this answer your questions. The unions that are less than 10 members will have 6 months to have them, this start to count since finish the congress. the unions that doesn't rich this number of members will join the closest union, and can continue working as "nucleo confederal". when they pass to be part of other union, the decisions are taken in the assembly of this union. so no member of CNT loose any of his rights.

example of "nucleo confederal" is Leganes, a city in the south of Madrid. they have more than 50 members and they are part of F.C Sur of Madrid that is based in Villaverde Alto. also there are an other 2 "nucleos confederales" that are part of this union, Rivas and Alcorcon. all of them are over the minimum.

Web of CNT- villaverde

Now a day i think nearly no union is under 10 members.

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OliverTwister
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Apr 10 2016 15:54
Quote:
On the CNT expelling sections. I could be wrong, some of that appears to be bombastic. A few years back the IWW changed it's requirements of our equivalent of SOVs similar to what it appears CNT did. The logic was that it's better for members to focus on organizing until they have the strength to do bureaucratic things like reporting, deal with a bank account, have a secretary/treasurer. It's exponentially harder for a group of 5 than a group of 15 to do that. Some of the little branches didn't make it. One difference I think there is that the IWW has individual membership so they remained members but lost defunct and inactive branches (if they couldn't convince a small handful of people to maintain membership).

I'm not sure what you're talking about regarding the IWW. There was a proposal to change the minimum number of members to charter a branch from 10 to 20 in 2006, which didn't pass.

I believe there was a separate proposal another time adding some requirements such as that branches have bylaws, but not changing the required number of members.

Steven.'s picture
Steven.
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Joined: 27-06-06
Apr 10 2016 16:19
OliverTwister wrote:
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The Spanish comrade who stated that the memory of social revolution in Spain was wiped out by Franco, sorry but that is just not true, and that's not how history works.

It's really fortunate that Spanish comrades have people to Spanish society to them.

I guess some words are missing from this sentence, but I think I get the gist of what you mean. But sorry, being Spanish doesn't mean that everything someone says about Spain is completely correct.

I don't really see how you can say that having half a million members, which they claimed to at the fall of the dictatorship puts them in exactly the same situation as Polish anarcho-syndicalists after the fall of theirs, where they maybe had a handful of individuals. Not to mention that I believe they also had millions of dollars in property which was eventually returned to them.

This of course isn't to in any way diminish how awful Franco's mass killings were. But workers in Poland also faced killings and the gulag.

Melenas, thank you for the clarification regarding the new proposals. That certainly sounds like a step forwards. I guess it's a shame that this just couldn't have been proposed or implemented in the IWA as it stands.

Mark.
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Apr 10 2016 16:59

I'm not aware of any claim that they had half a million members. The figures I remember quoted at the time were 200,000 to 300,000. I've since seen it stated that the actual number was around 100,000. I couldn't say for sure whether this is accurate.