Pdfs on christian anarchism

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Elgeeto's picture
Elgeeto
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Jun 29 2015 04:15
Pdfs on christian anarchism

I'm Interested in mixing christianity and anarchism into a kind of existential philosophy/belief system. I want to paint pictures of biblical rebels and punks calling the shots in history, exposing the insane changes modern figures endear to the characters and attitudes of the bible, who were all really righteous people before their names and ideas were given different voices by confused and also bitter peoples. Stressing less on organization and more on personal philosophy about howbwe interact with authority on personal levels -- how not to take crap with moral footing!

Anyone know any good starts on my ideal? Pdf's or music or w/e?

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Jun 29 2015 13:10

I understand that "The Kingdom of God is Within You" is a key text among christian anarchist types.

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Jun 29 2015 14:03

Reading a book on the Fabians and have heard mention of 'Labour Churches,' which I'd never read about before. Sounds like they're more socialist than anarchist though.

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Jun 29 2015 15:41

Deku #3

‘The first Labour Church was founded at Manchester in October 1891 by a Unitarian minister, John Trevor. Soon the Church expanded to other towns including Birmingham, Bradford, Bolton, Leeds, London, Nottingham, Oldham, Plymouth and Wolverhampton. Some of these churches were formed in a direct response to another church, or church minister, in the town promoting liberal views. Within five years of the first Labour Church there were over 50. The Labour churches were at that time attracting between 300 and 500 members to each congregation.
After John Trevor left in 1900, the Labour Church began to decline. At the annual conference of 1909, held in Ashton-under-Lyne, the name Labour Church was changed to Socialist Church. However by the beginning of World War I the recently renamed Labour Church had disappeared.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Church

In the 1970s in Glasgow there was a Unitarian minister, Woodside I think, who was very sympathetic to anarchism.
Some children I grew up with went to the local Socialist Sunday School.

EDIT
Should have made it clear Woodside was where his church was located. Cannot remember his name. A comrade in the ORA was asked to deliver a 'sermon' on anarchism, which he did.

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Jun 29 2015 15:10

Interesting, thanks.

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Elgeeto
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Jul 26 2015 19:02

thx! As soon as I liberate my tablet from the pawn shop, I'll fit in the eyeboxing time.

smush
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Aug 9 2015 10:48

Some writing from Aotearoa (New Zealand). http://www.jesusradicals.com/uploads/2/6/3/8/26388433/revolution-of-hope...

There is quite an active network of christian anarchists - the South Pacific Christian Anarchists (SPCA ... smile).

More here http://www.jesusradicals.com/anarchism.html

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Aug 9 2015 15:57

I don't get it. Are these people who seek to convert anarchists to Christianity, or the other way round - Christians into anarchists. And, ffs, why bother your arse? I couldn't give a monkeys if someone is a Christian, Muslim or whatever as long as this didn't keep rearing its head in relation to their political outlook.

Spikymike
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Aug 10 2015 10:32

Whist there are important differences between different christian organisations and their practice, I can't see that there is any logical or consistent correlation between anarchist (or at least anarchist-communist) philosophy or politics and christianity in today's world and it seems that somewhere along the line the attempt to marry the two will cause problems in the practice of any organised anarchist political group. That doesn't of course mean that people can't work together in many everyday circumstances on the basis of what we all do rather than the peculiar mix of contradictory ideas we may hold in our heads. An old working class 'militant' here in the north of England recently deceased claimed both an anarchist-syndicalist and anglo-catholic practice recognised as valid by other of his anarchist comrades but that to my knowledge was an exception to the rule. Other anarchist-syndicalists perceived that combination to be more problematical.

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Aug 10 2015 23:44

How does one beleive in God and be an anarchist?

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Aug 11 2015 14:09

What does God want with workers self organisation?

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Aug 16 2015 01:51

I'll bite.

Leaving aside for now whether class-conscious libertarian socialism is compatible with the recognition of some kind of divine authority---the kinks are ultimately up to each individual to work out---I would recommend Alexandre Christoyannopoulos' Christian Anarchism: A Political Commentary on the Gospel. It's the most exhaustive exegesis of its kind that I'm aware of, and it's fairly accessible even to those less well-versed in Scripture.

This a good summary of AC's concerns: http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/Christiananarchism.pdf

Might also want to look into the work of the Catholic Worker Movement.

Simon Watson
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Mar 25 2017 15:35

Coming in a bit late here, but did you get anywhere with your attempts to find a mix of anarchist and Christian positions? Reason I'm asking is my own experience as a Quaker. By Quaker, I mean original Quaker beliefs, not liberal or evangelical offshoots. The former can be roughly summed up in the words: "Christ has come to teach his people himself". The outcome of that is a faith and way of living where people are guided inwardly by Christ, not outwardly pastors, priest, government, police, courts etc. It also confronts the human nature problem, but from the inside rather than outside. I just put that out as it brought together two parts of one whole which I couldn't resolve through mainstream "Christianity".

Other folks have pointed you towards Catholic Worker, Pinch of Salt, Jesus Radicals. All good. "Christian Anarchism" by Alexandre Christoyannopoulos is currently being read in the Radical Reading Group at London Catholic Worker.

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:09
Elgeeto wrote:
I'm Interested in mixing christianity and anarchism into a kind of existential philosophy/belief system. I want to paint pictures of biblical rebels and punks calling the shots in history, exposing the insane changes modern figures endear to the characters and attitudes of the bible, who were all really righteous people before their names and ideas were given different voices by confused and also bitter peoples. Stressing less on organization and more on personal philosophy about howbwe interact with authority on personal levels -- how not to take crap with moral footing!

Anyone know any good starts on my ideal? Pdf's or music or w/e?

Does god watch you wank?

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
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Mar 25 2017 20:12
potrokin wrote:
Does god watch you wank?

I don't know about that, but that comments reveals you to be a wanker.

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:14

This is all I need to know about christianity http://www.evilbible.com/

Fleur
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Mar 25 2017 20:32
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This is all I need to know about christianity

That's very principled you you to stand by your ignorance quite so resolutely. What a crappy website.

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:37
Fleur wrote:
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This is all I need to know about christianity

That's very principled you you to stand by your ignorance quite so resolutely. What a crappy website.

how have I displayed ignorance, oh great judge of all things ignorant? The website tells you all you need to know about christianity.

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Khawaga
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Mar 25 2017 20:41
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how have I displayed ignorance, oh great judge of all things ignorant? The website tells you all you need to know about christianity.

Yes, you are being very ignorant and rather juvenile. There are good critiques of organised religion, but asking someone if God can see them wank and linking to a shit website does not count as "critique". What you have done instead is to attack a new poster...

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:50
Khawaga wrote:
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how have I displayed ignorance, oh great judge of all things ignorant? The website tells you all you need to know about christianity.

Yes, you are being very ignorant and rather juvenile. There are good critiques of organised religion, but asking someone if God can see them wank and linking to a shit website does not count as "critique". What you have done instead is to attack a new poster...

I think it's a website that anyone proffessing to be a christian should look at. I haven't attacked anyone. If there are better critiques as you say then perhaps you could post them.

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:57

Although, frankly I don't think I want to spend anymore time on a thread that defends religion so readily, in a way lacking so much in humour also.

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Mar 25 2017 20:56
potrokin wrote:
I haven't attacked anyone.

You asked Elgeeto if God watches him wank.

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If there are better critiques as you say then perhaps you could post them.

There are a shit ton of such critiques on this site and even Marx's opiate comment has more substance than that website you posted.

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 20:57

Religion is cancer.

Khawaga's picture
Khawaga
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Mar 25 2017 21:00
Marx wrote:
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 21:04

Religion is such a poisonous crock of shit (organised or not) that I refuse to waste anymore of my time debating the topic. There are more important things to discuss and if you had been harmed by religion like I have you would understand that.

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Khawaga
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Mar 25 2017 21:06
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There are more important things to discuss and if you had been harmed by religion like I have you would understand that.

I'm sorry that you've been harmed by organised religion, but your experience is not a universal one so you should not be that solipsistic and also not engage in homogenising all religion and all people of faith.

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Serge Forward
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Mar 25 2017 21:13

Religion is shit. Attacking people simply because they believe in a religion is also shit. By all means, criticise but you'd do well to reread that Marx quote because it contains far more humanity than your "does God watch you wank" nonsense.

potrokin
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Mar 26 2017 13:32

But if god is omnipotent and omnipresent, which is the universal experience (lamentably), then unfortunately he is doomed to watch everyone masturbate simultaneously until the end of time. A strange question no? And a genuine one.
As for my experience not being a universal one, it may not be but it is very common and to say otherwise is to also undermine the suffering of millions of people- including the girls and women having their clitorises removed and women having their reproductive rights attacked in the US. Perhaps there is a reason that the spanish anarchists burned churches down.
And please comrades lets keep our sense of humour and ability to mock religion, an inability to mock something and speak one's mind is a cornerstone of fascism- anarchism would imply that you don't need to look up at any being or higher power. The problem with mixing anarchism and religion is that to defer critical thinking ( to have faith) and responsibility you have to relinquish your own autonomy and that of others. I am disappointed at this website for catering to religion so much, religious people do not tolerate our views on the whole- why should we be so tolerant of religion, which is hierarchial. A ruling class, on the mortal plain or not is still a ruling class. That is all I have to say right now. I know I said I quit this discussion but I changed my mind.

Dave B
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Mar 25 2017 22:07

Elgeeto might be interested in;

“ Friedrich Nietzsche and Christian Anarchism”

I don’t like Nietzsche one little bit, but despite lunatic rants of sophistry etc he was I think quite capable of flashes of genius.

I had a ‘similar’ analysis of early christainity or the gospel material myself but with a somewhat different value analysis or conclusion or whatever.

I can never be sure if he is taking the piss, being ironic or playing devils advocate or not.

he was similar to Stirner in some ways

Quote:
….but suffice it to say that it was precisely because he saw Jesus as the teacher of a “typical socialist doctrine” that he found said teachings so repugnant. For Nietzsche, morality was commensurate with strength, and immorality with weakness.

Christianity, socialism, anarchism, and similar moral doctrines were, according to Nietzsche, born out of ressentment–a way for the weak to [ ..ideologically..] punish the strong and validate [ ..rationalise..] the morality of meekness, mildness, self-sacrifice, etc. as opposed to the morality of the strong, who valued self-determination, self-mastery, self-overcoming, etc. There is much more that could be said on this, but hopefully this will serve as a sufficient prelude to the following…..

https://livingthegreys.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/friedrich-nietzsche-and-...

potrokin
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Mar 25 2017 22:15
Elgeeto wrote:
I'm Interested in mixing christianity and anarchism into a kind of existential philosophy/belief system. I want to paint pictures of biblical rebels and punks calling the shots in history, exposing the insane changes modern figures endear to the characters and attitudes of the bible, who were all really righteous people before their names and ideas were given different voices by confused and also bitter peoples. Stressing less on organization and more on personal philosophy about howbwe interact with authority on personal levels -- how not to take crap with moral footing!

Anyone know any good starts on my ideal? Pdf's or music or w/e?

A good starting point would be to have a fundamental understanding of both anarchism and christianity and realising that anarchism is not a nebulous spirituality. For example- Romans 13-

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

Peter 2:13, Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Can you see how these passages from the Bible contradict the very fundamentals of anarchism?

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Khawaga
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Mar 25 2017 22:20
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And a genuine one.As for my experience not being a universal one, it may not be but it is very common and to say otherwise is to also undermine the suffering of millions of people- including the girls and women having their clitorisis removed

You do realize that FGM has nothing to do with Islam but everything to do with African culture?

Quote:
But if god is omnipotent and omnipresent, which is the universal experience (lamentably). Then unfortunately he is doomed to watch everyone masturbate simultaneously until the end of time. A strange question no? And a genuine one.

Not all religious people or even religions believe in an omnipotent God. For example, the Mormons believe in a fallible God. The problem is that you're conflating religion with Christianity and your experience with it. For example, IIRC only Christians believe in ex nihilio creation so taking that religion as the basis for all is problematic.

Quote:
Perhaps there is a reason that the spanish anarchists burned churches down.

Yes, but that's because the Church supported the fascists and that the Church has been a fucking exploiting land-owner for years and years. But then there are the counter-examples from Latin America where liberation theologists have been some of the most radical folks around; radicals that have been killed by the state for preaching a more just society and that people should take control over their own lives.

Quote:
. And please comrades lets keep our sense of humour and ability to mock religion,

Of course, but you mocked another poster. There is a difference.

Quote:
I am disappointed at this website for catering to religion so much, religious people do not tolerate our views on the whole- why should we be so tolerant of religion.

This site is highly atheist. Just because some people challenge your simplistic critique of religion in one thread started several years ago, does not mean libcom is so tolerant. Religion hardly gets discussed on this site.