After a long period of dormancy, with only an occasional news posting, Loren Goldner's China list has suddenly broken into debate over this question. The answer may not be as simple as you think. And of course, if it turns out China was not capitalist in any meaningful sense, then this may mean that the USSR and other "socialist" states weren't "state capitalist" either. If not, what were they? And almost as interesting: will the sectarian "left communists" on the list succumb to rational argumentation based on empirical evidence, or will they remain forever in thrall to ICC dogma and hundred-year-old screeds by right-wing orientalists?