Occupy movement: discussion and updates

Occupy Toronto happening in a

Occupy Toronto happening in a week. Went to an organizing meeting for peeps wanting to go from London. Mixed bag of people; liberals and a large contingent of Zeitgeisters and Truthers. Left a bad taste in my mouth, especially after one of the conspiraloons put on a slideshow will all kinds of various 9/11 crap, lizard stuff, NWO shit etc. Lost of ramblings about resource based economy etc. But at least my few class based comments were positively received so maybe there's some hope for them. What I don't like about going to TO is that there is so much stuff that can be done in London; again activists leave their own community for doing some else elswhere (happened with the g20). So one of the things I will do is to argue for the importance of local projects when the TO occupation is over; try to channel the energy into the few radical projects in the city (such as the SolNet, police brutality work, support for strikers etc.).

October 15th Global Protests

October 15th Global Protests on facebook

http://www.occupybritain.co.u

http://www.occupybritain.co.uk/

"Occupy Andover" now listed.

"Occupy Andover" now listed. :eek:

wojtek

http://www.occupybritain.co.uk/

There are many things I don't like about this website. Firstly, the flag in the background. I don't want know patriotic shite. Secondly, I'm not sure about this 99% stuff yet, thirdly, there is loads of Zeitgeist cack written on it....

Arbeiten wrote: wojtek

Arbeiten

wojtek

http://www.occupybritain.co.uk/

There are many things I don't like about this website. Firstly, the flag in the background. I don't want know patriotic shite. Secondly, I'm not sure about this 99% stuff yet, thirdly, there is loads of Zeitgeist cack written on it....

I notice the flag was challenged pretty early on by someone from Tucson, backed up by a couple of other comments - but was defended by an admin with some half-baked argument about 'British collective identity'. It's still up there...

Quote: there is loads of

there is loads of Zeitgeist cack written on it....

I don't know if it's just me, but seems like Zeitgeist/Venus project are using the protests as a coming out party. Not that they have anything concrete to suggest what the occupy movement should do, but they've definitively been very vocal and seems to have managed to get their voice heard above the rest. Or it could just be me reading fnord everywhere...

Khawaga wrote: Quote: there

Khawaga

there is loads of Zeitgeist cack written on it....

I don't know if it's just me, but seems like Zeitgeist/Venus project are using the protests as a coming out party. Not that they have anything concrete to suggest what the occupy movement should do, but they've definitively been very vocal and seems to have managed to get their voice heard above the rest. Or it could just be me reading fnord everywhere...

I feel similar regarding the occupy Sydney movement that has sprung up here, it seems to be a mix of Alex Jones conspiracy types and Zeitgeist people.

For example a demand that kept popping up in the FB groups that were set up was to "stop the Government putting fluoride in water"...

Mouzone, any predictions on

Mouzone, any predictions on what the Sydney event is going to be like? What's the best website to look at for it?

I was thinking of coming up from Canberra for it but if it's going to be largely right wing crackpots I don't think I'll bother.

Peter wrote: Mouzone, any

Peter

Mouzone, any predictions on what the Sydney event is going to be like? What's the best website to look at for it?

I was thinking of coming up from Canberra for it but if it's going to be largely right wing crackpots I don't think I'll bother.

Hey Peter,

The problem is there is such wide range of blogs and facebook events that don't seem to be co-ordinated in anyway, I heard there was a meeting a irish pub in the city (Scruffy Murphys) and one or two people showed up.

I hear that there is now some organisation being attempted with a meeting a UTS.

Here are the facebook events...

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=122116297893189

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=284324328246853

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=218916398171487

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Australia/120325891405931

http://www.facebook.com/OccupyTogether

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Sydney/153514104742550?sk=info

twitter account: - http://twitter.com/#!/occupysydney

Blogs: -

http://occupysydney.blogspot.com/

http://occupysydney.wordpress.com/

http://www.occupysydney.org/

UTS Meet http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t18395-occupy-sydney

If you can make sense of any of that, you're cleverer than me. :-)

Thanks for that Mouzone, I'll

Thanks for that Mouzone, I'll have a poke through it soonish.

https://twitter.com/#!/occupy

https://twitter.com/#!/occupysydney/status/123210455773741056

https://twitter.com/#!/occupysydney/status/121014749440909312

https://twitter.com/#!/occupysydney/status/120725000788525057

Khawaga wrote: Quote: there

Khawaga

there is loads of Zeitgeist cack written on it....

I don't know if it's just me, but seems like Zeitgeist/Venus project are using the protests as a coming out party. Not that they have anything concrete to suggest what the occupy movement should do, but they've definitively been very vocal and seems to have managed to get their voice heard above the rest. Or it could just be me reading fnord everywhere...

Dont make me post the old thread about me shit talking highschool kids who advocate technocracy. Fuck...dont even get me started.

Occupy X arrives in Ireland

Occupy X arrives in Ireland with Occupy Dame street

The 'Occupy X' movement arrived in Ireland over the weekend when a core group of around 50 people set up camp at the Central Bank Plaza on Dame street. Numbers grew to a few hundred at times over the next days and nights as supporters came down to join in for a while and the curious stopped to see what was going on. Issues highlighted by participants included the bank bail out, IMF intervention & the ongoing Great Oil & Gas Giveaway.

The immediate trigger of the current round of camps is the example set in New York by Occupy Wall Street four weeks ago. Despite police repressions that has seen the use of baton's and peppery spray as well as the arrests of 700 people that demonstration has been ongoing and has seen as many as 15,000 taking part at times. Copy cat demonstrations rapidly spread to dozens of American cities, more police repressions was unleashed hours ago against Occupy Boston with around 100 people being arrested during an attempt to violently evict the camp there.

The camp movement is older than the New York example and goes back to the M15/DRY movement that occupied the mains squares of Spanish cities in the summer which also spread to cities in Greece and Italy. This also saw solidarity demonstrations in Ireland which involved up to 500 people but which didn't get as far as holding day and night camp outs. But that movement in turn was obviously influenced by the 'Arab Spring' and in particular the Tahir Square occupation which led to the revolution in Egypt.

The 'Occupy X' movement isn't some sort of international organisation or even network but rather a locally organised but globally spontaneous expression of people's deep unhappiness with the way the costs of the global capitalist financial crisis are being dumped on their shoulders while its bonuses as usual for the bankers. There isn't much of a common understanding of the causes or solutions to the crisis, this is part of the reason that so much of the movement is characterized by long assemblies dealing with both immediate organisational issues and often meandering individual contributions as to these causes and solution.

The other common point of departure is a rejection of the organised left and union leadership, the Dublin demonstration like many of the others asks people not to bring left or union flags or banners. We intend to publish some opinion pieces in the next few days from WSM members who have been involved exploring this aspect in more detail but our approach to date has been to respect this request and to help out with organisational details and publicity.

The hope of the organizers is that this movement can have an appeal much broader that that of the existing left. To date this has not manifested itself, the numbers coming out to support these demonstrations have been similar to any of the other recent anti-cuts protests organised by left factions and only a tiny fraction of the tens of thousands the unions have mobilized. But the hope is that unlike those 'turn up and listen to a speech' protests that active participation element of the assemblies will engage people and encourage them to go and organize in turn. In the current context this is a goal that can not be faulted even if the program of this emerging movement has yet to be defined.

Politics averted: thoughts on the 'Occupy X' movement

What are we to make of the global 'Occupy X' movement which has exploded onto the streets of cities across the world, turning public spaces into campsites of opposition? Certain things are obvious: Firstly, the fact that there are thousands of people across the world taking over public spaces to express their anger at the financial system is undeniably a good thing. Having camped out outside the Central Bank on Dame Street on Saturday night, I can also say that these protests exude a positivity and hopefulness that is so often lacking from the ritualistic parades of anger that make up most protest marches. But there are also, in my view, serious political problems that prevent the movement from moving beyond a 'radical sleepover' and becoming a genuine anti-austerity grassroots resistance movement...

photos

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Occupy Wall Street-style protests spread to Britain

Anti-corporate protests to hit London

Protests against corporate power that have taken hold in the US are to hit Britain on Saturday with a rally in front of the London Stock Exchange.

Occupy London Stock Exchange (OccupyLSX) is planning to launch a "peaceful occupation" near the British capital's financial nerve centre, and its page on social networking site Facebook has attracted 3500 confirmed attendees.
[…]
The group will host workshops, assemblies and discussion groups during Saturday's protest against the financial sector and its regulatory system.

OccupyLSX is backed by British anti-austerity group UK Uncut, the London-based Assembly of the Spanish 15M movement and the People's Assemblies Network Global Day of Action.

UK Uncut supporter Peter Hodgson said the success of the square occupations across Spain in calling for democracy and an end to austerity, alongside the rapid growth of the Wall Street occupation, had shown that "this is what is needed in London".

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More solidarity actions and statements from greater China

First, another statement of support to OWS was issued by a diverse grouping of leftists several days ago, signed by hundreds:

Strongly support the the American people’s just struggle against the rule of capital

In order to protest the greed of the financial oligarchs, the US’ proletariat has occupied Wall Street, striking a blow at the Western world’s financial capital, crying out ‘End to capitalism!’ and ‘Revolution Now!’ This movement has already lasted three weeks. This “people’s revolution” has sent a strong shock wave and caused panic in the Western world. There is no doubt that, this movement that began in the financial capital of the Western world will become a turning point in world history. … See full here or if that link goes down google 中国无产阶级革命派关于华尔街风暴的声明. (note: our translation)

As far as I understand it, there is a very sharp debate underway within China’s intellectual left basically over the desirability and feasibility of reform vs. non-reformist and revolutionary strategies. Utopia tends towards the reformist, while the signatories of this statement tend towards non-reformism. (the debate is also often characterized as nationalism vs. internationalism, or nationalism vs. socialism)

Speaking of Utopia, saturday witnessed another solidarity action in Henan Province, this time in Luoyang. Don’t have numbers, but there is an account on Utopia that says the event was linked up to a lecture criticizing US military, political and economic policy towards China. The event jumped on rhetoric of OWS, and came out against the 1% in the US, and in support of the 99%. My understanding is that the people that participated are connected to a Maoist group in Henan with close ties to Utopia.

I’m now pretty sure that Hong Kong will also join the October 15th ‘Occupy Together’ thing. Here’s a link to a couple of photos of people in Guy Fawkes masks marching down the street to publicize the event on the 15th.

As I mentioned in my last post, Taiwan is already in. Will be an interesting day!

The Met have just twitter for

The Met have just twitter for a 'representative' of the Occupy London Stock Exchange to liaise with them. I bet at least one self appointed numpty is going to comply as well....

I'll up that Arbeiten. In

I'll up that Arbeiten. In Toronto, some dickhead went to the police, CSIS (secret po) and the city to be the liason. He also went to the media as the "official" representative. All of this after the organizer meeting had agreed that nobody should talk to either the media or the police...

Mark. wrote: UK Uncut

Mark.

UK Uncut supporter Peter Hodgson said the success of the square occupations across Spain in calling for democracy and an end to austerity, alongside the rapid growth of the Wall Street occupation, had shown that "this is what is needed in London".

[/quote]

:confused: What success?

i'll be in Rome. seems like

i'll be in Rome.
seems like there will be major clashes... both state and groups want that.
i'll let you know.

Khawaga wrote: I'll up that

Khawaga

I'll up that Arbeiten. In Toronto, some dickhead went to the police, CSIS (secret po) and the city to be the liason. He also went to the media as the "official" representative. All of this after the organizer meeting had agreed that nobody should talk to either the media or the police...

This 'movement' goes from bad to worse doesn't it? The facebook pages are conspiracy shit storms also...THE CIA HAVE SET UP THE OCCUPATION MOVEMENT! :roll:

October 15th global day of

October 15th global day of action

15th October what’s the plan?

http://www.facebook.com/15OWorldEvolution

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%2315Oct

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%2315O

15-O en Madrid: bloque anarquista y autónomo

So is anyone going to this

So is anyone going to this london one tomorrow? I probably will, but I don't have any concrete plans yet. And a leftist without concrete is perhaps more damning than a builder without concrete....

From Roarmag: A brief history

[youtube]FbqS9qCvqD8[/youtube]

From Roarmag:

A brief history of 15-O and the global youth movement

From the Guardian:

Protesters plan to 'occupy' London Stock Exchange

A manifesto for regime change on behalf of all humanity

From the Mail & Guardian:

Privileged protesters or voice for the voiceless?

The Occupy Wall Street movement seems to have defied many of its early critics, with tens of thousands of people still supporting those camped out at New York's financial centre and the heart of US capitalism a month after the protests started.

It has since spread to over 70 cities across the globe.

South African "occupations" are planned to begin on October 15, with protests organised for Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg, East London and Grahamstown.

The movement has been supported by many high profile activists, such as Naomi Klein and Slavoj Zizek, but has also been criticised for mainly appealling to a privileged few, given the fact that much of the activity was organised and publicised over the internet and through social networking sites.

Like many anti-capitalism and anti-government protests that have gone before, the crowd's profile has been scrutinised. Are these the people who really should be protesting? And, if not, are those who have a voice allowed to speak for the voiceless?

It is certainly a complex issue, and one that perturbs both those who support such movements as much as it is cited as a problem by those who do not. But it seems that, perhaps because of widespread media coverage of the event, the demographics of the Wall Street crowd, and those participating in similar actions around the world, is changing.

Those expecting the crowd to be made up of bored white kids in faded Rage Against the Machine t-shirts and a library of Michael Moore DVDs would probably be surprised by the diversity (in terms of age, class and race) that is reflected.

And the issues that are being raised are broad enough to affect people from all walks of life -- the "99%" the movement claims to represent does not have one face.

Another surprising aspect of the movements around the world has been the support and advice given to occupiers from conservatives to anarchist groups.

So will the local movement be supported and taken seriously? How can what started a US movement be relevant locally? Will it be more than a bunch of kids coming along because they saw it on Facebook? Flash mobs are so last decade, after all.

Aragorn Eloff, a documentary filmmaker and anarchist who has been in contact with some of those involved in the Wall Street protest, is positive that the local movement will have its own momentum.

"We live in one of the most unequal societies on earth; this inequality is perpetuated by capitalism and the state and thus we as South Africans find easy affinity with those occupying Wall Street and other US and European locations. The occupation will provide a platform for various social movements to air their grievances and demand service delivery [even though, in many cases, this demand is rhetorical and intended primarily as a demonstration of the state's inability to deliver on its promises]."

He pointed out that South Africa has a history of struggle and protest, which has continued to inspire many protest groups and movements. "There were over a thousand protests in South Africa last year! South Africa is home to a number of grassroots poor people's movements, such as the Anti-Eviction Campaign, The Landless People's Movement and Abahlali baseMjondolo. We can expect to see these and other groups, as well as a number of independent trade unions, taking part in the occupation."

Local efforts are showing early signs of being surprisingly diverse, but whether that will be reflected remains to be seen.

"I was at a fascinating public meeting for the Cape Town occupation yesterday [Monday]. There were about 10 whities who knew about it via Facebook and about 80 people of colour from Khayelitsha, Mitchell's Plain, Blikkiesdorp, Symphony Way and similar, many of them representing different social movements. The clash of values between the middle-class whities, who were all chattering about how we should coordinate actions on the day via Twitter and smartphones, and the poor and working class folks, most of whom don't have access to a computer, was in turns fascinating, depressing, infuriating and humbling."

Eloff adds that this gives the movement some gravitas, "even if the people who hear about it on the internet and arrive in their own cars will mostly leave on Saturday night for drinks on Long Street, and even though it was originally suggested on the internet by a bunch of relatively privileged kids".

And those "privileged kids" should, perhaps, not be so easily dismissed.

"White kids who listen to Rage Against the Machine and call themselves activists are active relative to their context. If they seem ignorant and entitled in how they choose to act, well, kudos to them nonetheless for showing up and trying to break out of a system that benefits them more than most."

There are plenty of reasons to be cynical about efforts such as this, no matter how deeply you sympathise with the ideals behind them. Revolution has never been more fashionable, after all. But whether it is a trend that will catch on here, only time will tell.

Videos taken

[youtube]DXlabXBYBtA[/youtube]

[youtube]H0W0Fu4xahI[/youtube]

Videos taken from:

http://acampadabcninternacional.wordpress.com/2011/10/15/live15o-video-post/

Live updates on twitter:

http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23live15o

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El 15-O en todo el mundo (photos)

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Occupy Wall Street sit-in goes global (Reuters)

[youtube]zBj3aTwSvp8[/youtube]

I'm going to be away from the internet for the rest of the day. If anyone on libcom can tear themselves away from Aufhebengate then maybe they could post up some comments, links or updates on the global protests against capitalism.

It seems that the police is

It seems that the police is going to kettle the demonstration. I guess, they want to test this non-violence thing.

There was a march in Warsaw,

There was a march in Warsaw, probably small by world standards, for Warsaw OK. (About 200 people.) But there was no plan to occupy anything. We wanted to do something but we had some problems because we were picketing a bar and were aggressively confronted. The whole thing resulted in the march being rerouted (!!). More here (Eng) http://zspwawa.blogspot.com/2011/10/real-revolution-now-how-outraged-met.html or (Pol):
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,10475410,Manifestacje___oburzonych___w_Warszawie_i_na_calym.html
A mixed bag. Some of the organizers are OK, young people certainly with good intentions, but the influence of the liberal left scene on the event fucked it.

By the way, a big fuck you to morons from OWS in the US who invited one of the big traitors of the workers' movement and introducers of market liberalism into Poland, Lech Walesa, to come "support" them.

So Rome went off in a big

So Rome went off in a big way, the press talking about 'Black Bloc guerrillas' etc.. some links below:

Videos:

Lots of people smashing up Carabinieri truck
More rioting
People smashing a supermarket - though it doesn't look like a supermarket (difficult to tell as it's quite a distance in the vid)..
Street level video - fair play to the guy selling hot dogs in the middle of a riot, I suppose that's the entrepreneurial spirit!
Video of people's cars getting smashed up - and a bank, but Italians will remember the cars..
Fire
Pacifists shout at Black Bloc

Photos: Carabinieri getting car-jacked pretty much
Riots
Some people write 'Carlo Vive' (Carlo Lives) on a Carabinieri truck - for those who don't know, Carlo Giuliani was a protester killed in the Genova 2001 anti-globalisation protests
Police using tear gas

Occupy the world: Rome burns

Occupy the world: Rome burns as Wall Street protests spread across the globe and America prepares for 'day of rage' (Daily Mail)

Occupy Wall Street live: protests spread around the world (Guardian)

Photos from El País

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Seoul

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Athens

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Madrid - claims of 500,000 people, 250,000 in Barcelona, 50,000 in Sevilla.

[youtube]SjUIEAZr4Yo[/youtube]

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Porto - 25,000 on demo according to twitter, 100,000 in Lisbon. In the video they're chanting 'IMF out of here' and 'the people united will never be defeated'.

[youtube]5MqDdf3OHhw[/youtube]

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akai wrote: By the way, a big

akai

By the way, a big fuck you to morons from OWS in the US who invited one of the big traitors of the workers' movement and introducers of market liberalism into Poland, Lech Walesa, to come "support" them.

Who invited that guy? :confused:

Here we

Here we go....

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/national/article_0573d760-ef5f-11e0-8509-001cc4c03286.html

Obama 2012!

Pfft....America is so predictable.

CRUD wrote: Here we

CRUD

Here we go....

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/national/article_0573d760-ef5f-11e0-8509-001cc4c03286.html

Obama 2012!

Pfft....America is so predictable.

Not always.

Prior to the building of the Occupy Oakland encampment on the lawn in front of City Hall (renamed "Oscar Grant Plaza"; where there's a small amphitheater), MoveOn.org had already gotten a police permit for a rally at the same space today. When Occupy tried to compromise in order to prevent MoveOn from bringing the mayors of Oakland, Berkeley and Richmond to speak at the rally, MoveOn wouldn't budge and rescheduled the politicians to speak elsewhere. Since it was scheduled to start in a few minutes, I don't know where MoveOn relocated their "Jobs Not Cuts" rally -- featuring Danny Glover as the keynote celebrity speaker.

This is actually a victory for Occupy Oakland, much like at the rally of striking students and teachers on March 4, 2010 when the MC chased mayoral candidate (later elected) Jean Quan off the stage.

Hieronymous wrote: This is

Hieronymous

This is actually a victory for Occupy Oakland

I saw Boots Riley there. Had a few beers and went home. Didn't see moveon people but if I did (especially after a few beers) it would have been interesting. Hopefully we can fend off the Democrats/liberals but I'm not that optimistic.

Here's some micro-interviews

Here's some micro-interviews of folks at the Bristol one in the afternoon, pretty good 'pot luck' up of different views of the one at occupybristol then (got bigger in the evening so might have changed.

http://www.mixcloud.com/fbwl/from-occupy-bristol-with-love/

CRUD wrote: Here we

CRUD

Here we go....

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/national/article_0573d760-ef5f-11e0-8509-001cc4c03286.html

Obama 2012!

Pfft....America is so predictable.

Yeah dude I've known about that for a while. Because they are getting involved hardly means the entire movement is going to mobilize for Obama.

I just got back from London.

I just got back from London. Not very impressed to be honest. No real politics. The occupation is now out from of St Paul's cathedral, so there is no chance of an economic blockade. And there was a nutter with a microphone who described himself as an intergalactic wizard. It seems that this idea of being peaceful has actually become a hindrance because the whole day was basically herded by the police

tastybrain wrote: CRUD

tastybrain

CRUD

Here we go....

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/national/article_0573d760-ef5f-11e0-8509-001cc4c03286.html

Obama 2012!

Pfft....America is so predictable.

the entire(American) movement is going to mobilize for Obama.

Yes I agree :)....wait a minute...I should have frowned :(

A brief report I wrote after

A brief report I wrote after coming home from the local Occupy Wellington event an hour or so ago:

I popped down to the Wellington one an hour or so ago. There were 30-35 people there, and 19 tents up. Some brief thoughts:

Positive
- I only recognised 3 of the people there from other political stuff, so lots of new faces.
- Some of them seemed to be engaging with passers by, talking about why they were there.

Negative
- The crowd was almost entirely younger hippies. Most were just dreading each others hair, playing guitar etc. It could've easily been just another day hanging out on the grass in the sun if it wasn't for the placards strung along the fence.
- The few non-hippies I saw were older men, talking approvingly about conspiracy theories.

To be honest, my earlier lack of enthusiasm about Occupy Wellington was more or less confirmed by my brief visit. I didn't see much there to engage with so I only stuck around for 15 mins or so before coming home.

Ok, first a warning, then a

Ok, first a warning, then a clarion.

Well, yes, the "Occupy Everywhere" movement is rather problematic. It lacks focus and a has no coherent set of demands, and from my point of view as an anarchist-communist who happens to be a Jew, I perceive a metric shit-tonne of crypto/overt anti-Semitism from a lot of the folks.

That being said, I think this is essentially a class movement. The arguments seem to be class based, if too often focused on a failed commodity fetishist view of banking. But the posters and propaganda emerging thereof are often vulgar marxist, which I'm All Fucking For. Vulgar marxism is gut-level and can explaion 90% of what goes on in the world. The rest is fodder for the academy.

Nonetheless, many anarchist-communist movements have been building organisers and capacity for years. This is the sort of movement that is essentially congruent to our ideas. How can we build on it and move forward? There are a tonne of proletarians who are pissed about their lives, and rightfully so. This movement is international, so are we. There are many parallels. Ditch the chaff and move forward with the wheat.

We're organisers aren't we? Are the folks involved going to join AC movements? Maybe, maybe not, but that's irrelevant. We need to build leftist, socialist working class power, that's anarchism at its best. If we fail to build on these events, someone else will, and momentum and energy will be lost. And maybe taken up by the extreme right. If folks want a revolution, we have a platform. Let's work together to make it happen.

ROME http://www.repubblica.it

ROME

http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2011/10/15/foto/i_lacrimogeni-23287242/1/?ref=HREA-1

http://www.corriere.it/gallery/cronache/10-2011/scontri/3/assalto-blindato-carabinieri_30800e94-f75f-11e0-9ce3-b3213c3a5a87.shtml#1

http://roma.corriere.it/roma/gallery/roma/10-2011/corteoindignati/1/roma-corteo-indignati-italiani_57097ac4-f72c-11e0-9ce3-b3213c3a5a87.shtml#3

Santiago Tel Aviv Dataran

Santiago

Tel Aviv

Dataran (Malaysia)

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Paul Mason on the occupy protests

I stopped by the local

I stopped by the local "occupy parliament" happening in Norway yesterday. At the time it was only about 50 people left, but I heard there had been a couple hundred there earlier in the day. All the usual suspects were there: Food not Bombs were giving out free food and coffee, a couple of people from Attac had brought flags, another couple of people were giving out Venus project leaflets, there was a drum circle and lots of people just hanging out on the grass. There were some assemblies during the day too, but I didn't attend any of them.

All in all it seemed quite pleasant, but as Asher phrased it, it didn't amount to much more than "another day hanging out on the grass in the sun." And Norway is really a bit too cold for that at this time of the year...

i went to occupy melbourne

i went to occupy melbourne for a few hours today. lots of people from socialist alternative. lots of conspiracy kooks. some anarchists about, lots of young and curious.

glad to see a strong indigenous statement and workgroup from the start.

no consensus on 'anti-capitalist' yesterday, by consensus on 'non-violence' lots of little working groups. ie. medics, legal, 'authorities liason'

i didnt have a sense that this was going to springboard action. hope i am wrong. at least radical ideas are being discussed by some.

but i listed too so much stupid zeitgeist stuff. ' we must issue our own currencies, thats what matters ... '

Speaking of indigenous stuff

Speaking of indigenous stuff some clown from the tent embassy gave this long rambling self-congratulatory speech at Occupy Canberra about how he'd guilt tripped the stupid hippies organising it into moving the protest from Parliament House to this hidden hilltop park next to the CBD because they hadn't got permission from the rightful owners. And the dumbfucks all applauded this assertion of imaginary property rights.

A few thousand demonstrators

A few thousand demonstrators in Amsterdam, several hundreds in the Hague. In bth cities eole ut up camps and spent the nights. 65 tents still standing on 16th October, several tents in The Hague. Smaller actions in Utrecht, Rotterdam, Heerlen, Maastricht and Enschede.

I spent the day in The hague, having played a role in the orginzation of the tion there. Hundreds of people left the encampment, confronted the police (which took a less confrontational position than usual); after a minor scuffle, police gave way and people spent the afternoon yelling slogans, giving and listening to impromptu speeches, and having music. That plaza occupation - unplanned, and against what organizers had in mind (at least officially) was a victory of sorts. Early evening people either went home or returned to base camp. There, the most vocal ones were spiritually, Zeitgeist-minded and related people. The leftwingers, revolutionaries and/ or socialists had mostly gone home by then.

It will be interesting what happens next. Most encouraging: for many of these people - not just the demonstrators but organisers as well - this was the first street action they ever did in their life. Another positive thing: actions in provincial towns, organised in just a few days, but still attracting dozens, sometimes a few hundreds, of people. Less positive; the central role of conspiracy-minded people at least in The Hague, and the visible dominance of the International Socialists, at least during the day. Still, a serious beginning of a movement with great possibilities. Work to do for anarchists/ communists!

Lisbon had one of the bigger

Lisbon had one of the bigger turnouts yesterday. There's a report here on the build-up to the protests. The second video is from the assembly in front of parliament.

[youtube]-sf_5EqeBIY[/youtube]

[youtube]I2dk6Q5GyRw[/youtube]

-----

These reports on Spain, from El País, aren't great but as yet I haven't seen much else in English, apart from an article from Laurie Penny which isn't great either.

Madrid's Sol square lights up the global stage for world protests

May 15 protestors occupy private buildings after forging global voice

deleted post

I've been down to Occupy

I've been down to Occupy Wellington a couples times now and Asher basically sums it up. Although I am planning on actually pitching a tent for as long as I can stand it in a few days.

I've heard more positive things from some of the occupations in other cities, especially Auckland. There was a further occupation of the university there today which involved students and staff and which got the support of the Occupy movement.

It seems like the Auckland one is more overtly political, whereas here in Wellington its really just a bunch of hippies chilling out in a park. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

An initial statement by

An initial statement by Occupy London:

1 The current system is unsustainable. It is undemocratic and unjust. We need alternatives; this is where we work towards them.

2 We are of all ethnicities, backgrounds, genders, generations, sexualities dis/abilities and faiths. We stand together with occupations all over the world.

3 We refuse to pay for the banks’ crisis.

4 We do not accept the cuts as either necessary or inevitable. We demand an end to global tax injustice and our democracy representing corporations instead of the people.

5 We want regulators to be genuinely independent of the industries they regulate.

6 We support the strike on the 30th November and the student action on the 9th November, and actions to defend our health services, welfare, education and employment, and to stop wars and arms dealing.

7 We want structural change towards authentic global equality. The world’s resources must go towards caring for people and the planet, not the military, corporate profits or the rich.

8 We stand in solidarity with the global oppressed and we call for an end to the actions of our government and others in causing this oppression.

9 This is what democracy looks like. Come and join us!

Meanwhile, Labour's version of the BNP's token Sikh, John McDonnell is trying to co-opt it (or what there is of it) already:

Morning Star: McDonnell urges MPs to back protests

initially in 2 they wanted a

initially in 2 they wanted a cross class alliance. a few of us suggested that that was not possible. So it was changed to the slightly more irritating hands-off 'background'. ggggrrrrrrrr!

Just to mention briefly the

Just to mention briefly the gathering in Manchester (UK) Piccadilly Gardenson the 15th initiated by the small remnant of campers from the earlier 'occupy Albert square' action during the TUC sponsored anti-tory demo and located at the time on another site.

This was a very small (core group of about 60 max) if viseable and vocal event which did manage to garner some interest from passers buy during the 'open mic' session.

Best part was the emphasis on our facing common problems accross the world and the need to work together accross national boundaries in opposing austerity measures. Opposition to politicians, big corporations and banks was common ground but not much understanding of class or the all-encompassing nature of capitalism as such. Some good personal accounts.

The emphasis on non-violence by several speakers and core organisers, whilst it might have been a practical necessity in the circumstances, was clearly a much more deep seated ideological stance and potential barrier to effective action in other circumstances.

I also noted that the Greater Manchester Police Force clearly had learned some lessons from their academic consultants (discussed in a different context elsewhere on this site) in creating a controlled, compliant self policing event and generally encouraging in the organisers (who were perhaps already inclined that way) a belief in their impartiallity as protectors of peaceful democratic protest rather than protectors of class property and power.

The Green Party have come out

The Green Party have come out in support of Occupy LSX.

I am fully supportive of peaceful protest, although my favourite form of direct action is of course voting

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/17-10-11-Green-Party-backs-global-economic-defiance.html

Am now hoping it seriously kicks off, to see how fast they disown it. :bb:

Apparently yesterday there

Apparently yesterday there was elections in Italy, hence the tittle of the interview of the on-line mag Independenti with one of italy's autonomen, a certain Lucca:

“Niente comizi, la piazza si conquista” (Screw elections, squares are to be conquered)

http://www.indipendenti.eu/blog/?p=26075

Gianluca, redattore di Infoaut, spiega dall’interno l’origine politica della violenza alla manifestazione degli indignati a Roma. “Bruciare macchine e spaccare la statua della Madonna è stata una gigantesca cazzata, ma attaccare banche e ministeri è un segnale politico”. E conferma la presenza in piazza di ultras del calcio e “reduci” degli anni Settanta
“Certo ci sono stati episodi deliranti, come bruciare le macchine, cosa che finisce solo per spaventare il corteo, o spaccare la statua della Madonna. Sono cazzate pazzesche. Ma attaccare le banche o gli uffici dei ministeri, che piaccia o meno, è un’indicazione, un segnale politico”. Gianluca, redattore di Infoaut, portale di politica e controinformazione di diversi collettivi dell’area autonoma, spiega la violenza esplosa alla grande manifestazione degli Indignati a Roma, terminata in ore di scontri in piazza San Giovanni, e con l’annullamento di tutti gli interventi finali.

Lui era lì, nel cosiddetto “blocco nero”, quello dei manifestanti coperti da caschi e cappucci che sono diventati protagonisti delle violenze. “Non raccontiamoci la storiella di due o trecento ‘black bloc’, magari fascisti o infiltrati della polizia”, continua Gianluca. “Tra il Colosseo e piazza San Giovanni, alla testa del corteo si è venuta a formare una componente di migliaia di giovani che non si riconoscevano negli organizzatori della manifestazione”. Addirittura cinque-diecimila, secondo il redattore di Infoaut, testata che in un editoriale definisce i fatti di Roma un episodio di “resistenza”.

Qui sta il cuore della frattura tra pacifici e violenti, con i secondi che di fatto hanno monopolizzato le cronache della protesta tra incendi e sassaiole. “La costruzione del 15 ottobre in Italia è stata nettamente al di sotto di quello che doveva essere. Gli organizzatori sono cadaveri: gruppi, sindacati e partitini che non esprimono niente nelle città, nelle scuole… Secondo loro, il corteo doveva finire con dei comizi elettorali, un modo secondo noi stupido di coronare una giornata di lotta. E la manifestazione sarebbe passata lontano dai veri luoghi della responsabilità”. Vale a dire i palazzi del potere, ritenuti colpevoli della crisi e del “furto” del futuro per le giovani generazioni.

Così, ragiona ancora Gianluca, molti hanno deciso di “uscire” dal programma preconfezionato. “Si possono anche deprecare le violenze di due o trecento persone, ma quando migliaia di giovani resistono per ore alla polizia è un fatto politico, come è accaduto anche nella manifestazione studentesca del 14 dicembre, sempre a Roma. Invece di aspettare i comizi, si sono presi la piazza. Questi giovani sanno che il loro futuro non esiste e non sono più riassumibili e compatibili in partiti, sindacati, associazioni. Se il percorso ufficiale della manifestazione avesse toccato i palazzi del potere, forse le cose sarebbero andate diversamente”.

Le azioni dei “neri” hanno provocato rabbia e reazioni molto decise da parte dei manifestanti che, nella stragrande maggioranza, puntavano a una giornata pacifica. E che invece si sono visti “scippare” i contenuti della protesta dalla risonanza mediatica degli scontri. Ma Gianluca la vede diversamente: “I contenuti politici ormai si conoscono: la crisi economica, il governo che sta in piedi a stento. Non si capisce perché la rivolta vada bene solo in Egitto”.

Alla fine, chi erano i violenti di piazza San Giovanni? “Al di là dei gruppi storici, c’è ormai uno strato sociale che si esprime in questo modo. Certo che Nichi Vendola dice che non si riconosce in quella piazza, ma neppure quella piazza lo voterà mai, perché sa che da lui arriveranno le solite ricettine”. Gianluca conferma che a manifestare a Roma c’erano anche gruppi ultras del calcio: “Ho visto ragazzi con lo striscione contro la ‘tessera del tifoso’, ma va capito che gli ultras sono un fenomeno sociale di massa. Rappresentano una forma di conflitto che per me sta al di sotto, ma dopo la normalizzazione del ministro Maroni tornano in strada e trovano un ambiente affine. Non sono alieni, sono anche loro proletari, stanno anche loro nelle scuole, nei luoghi di lavoro”. Così come, in mezzo a tanti ragazzi, si sono dati da fare contestatori più attempati, “quaranta-cinquantenni provenienti da altre battaglie”.

A questo punto, conclude, la definizione di “black bloc” diventa stretta. Il termine lo inventò la polizia tedesca negli anni Ottanta per definire gli Autonomen, che nei cortei facevano più o meno le stesse cose viste a Roma il 15 ottobre e si vestivano tutti di nero anche per rendere più difficile il riconoscimento nei filmati della polizia. In seguito, è stato utilizzato per definire la tattica di piccoli gruppi più o meno coordinati che si infiltravano nei cortei e ne uscivano per colpire gli obiettivi simbolo del capitalismo. Per Gianluca, i protagonisti degli scontri di Roma sono invece “una minoranza, ma di massa”.

Basically the main ideas in the interview (as far as my crappy italian is concerned) are: That the burning of the cop's lorry and the humilliation af a mother mary sculpture were bullshit but that attacking banks and ministries was a meaningful political action. That we shouldn't believe the lies that the black block were some hundred hooligans or undercovered police but around a thousand genuine autonomen and some football hooligans that he salutes as fellow working class members.That the demos, according to the organisers wishes, should have ended with the elections,something the autonomos considered a moronic way of crowning a day of fight. That they didn't feel represented by the organisers (parties, ngo's, unions) who he describes as corpses. That the main reason to start the fight came from the fact that the organisers consciouslly designed the itinerary in order to avoid political buildings (seats and headquarters), this had not happen perhaps violence wouldn't had broken. That this youth has no future and therefore cannot feel represented by the ones that can only offer the same recipes. And finally he alludes to the fact that the black block definition is pathetically narrow, an invention of the german police to name a fighting minoroty when in rome it was a fighting mass.

The interview is posted too

The interview is posted too in Indymedia Roma

http://roma.indymedia.org/

According to Público in La Repubblica there is an interview with another autonomo that states that this day was prepared in Athens learning from the greek comrades...but i smell a rat there.

http://www.repubblica.it/politica/2011/10/17/news/black_bloc_piani-23345453/index.html?ref=HRER3-1

Quote: R.R. Berkman

R.R. Berkman wrote:from my point of view as an anarchist-communist who happens to be a Jew, I perceive a metric shit-tonne of crypto/overt anti-Semitism from a lot of the folks.

well yes, i haven't been involved with or even been able to pass by Occupy Newcastle this weekend, but have just seen some photos and what stands out is an anti-semitic "peace" flag hanging in pride of place. Earlier photos show it being carried by one woman (probably a lone conspiracy type) but the fact that it has presumably gone unchallenged and people are happy to have their banners next to it is absolutely shit.

wow i passed through there at

wow i passed through there at the weekend and i didn't see that banner and to be honest i couldn't see what the problem was at first glance at the photo you posted...but it is a star of david with a swastika inside it isn't it? i am blind as a bat without my glasses mind... :oops:

oh my days. that flag is

oh my days. that flag is abhorrent. If it is still up can someone can tear it up please? The 'non-violent'* ideology probably allowed for the person to 'express' there anger in a peaceful way....

*read totally passive to the point of toothless

I think that's also the old

I think that's also the old logo of that crazy UFO cult, the Raëlians(they've removed the swastika now).

So, either they're tolerating UFO cultist twats or they're tolerating anti-Semitic twats...fucking shit.

Report from Portugal

Not sure if this is the right

Not sure if this is the right thread to post in, but I was at an anti-cuts meeting today and I heard - for the first time ever - somebody, alongside propping the occupy protests, talking about the federal reserve (this is in England btw... :roll: ) and saying that we don't really live in a free market capitalist system, we live under 'financial capitalism'...

I'm slightly worried that these protests might add to the influence and numbers of people promoting this kind of perspective, along with the Zeitgeist-type perspective. Or at least it's bringing them out of the shadows and into actual organising and doing stuff, for better or worse. I think a massive load of people, a significant proportion of young people, are really into Zeitgeist-type stuff, and conspiracy theories about Rothschild's etc. That's just based on the people who went to my school and what they're into now though, so isn't based on any actual proper evidence.

Is there any article written from a libcom perspective criticising this kind of perspective (obviously it's not a homogeneous set of ideas but still), in a really friendly way? I think it would be really really worthwhile, and if written really well and spread through social media, etc. could be properly influential. I would try and write one but I don't know enough about their ideas. If I miraculously have a load of free time at some point then I'll look into it more properly.

mons, where in the uK are

mons, where in the uK are you? because I went to london yesterday (I live in london) and some idiot make a distinction between corporate/crony capitalism (what ever the fuck that is) which we all apparently disagree with, and a sort of 'good' capitalism that we should all fight for. I nearly teared my eyes out. the worst part is? She did not face major opposition!

Arbeiten, 'crony capitalism/

Arbeiten, 'crony capitalism/ corporate socialism' is if I'm not mistaken the narrative used by (radical) social democrats, e.g. Neil Clark, George Galloway, Dan Hind in this country or Michael Moore and Amy Goodman in the US, who desire a Keynesian economic stimulus, nationalisation/ co-operativisation of industry, full unemployment, etc. It's reformist and will in all probability lead to a 'vote Democrat/ Labour' stance come election time. It's the 'end corporate greed' and 'Wall Street hijacked our government' slogans. I'm sure CRUD will tell you more ;)

OK as usual, my dry (perhaps

OK as usual, my dry (perhaps shite) sarcasm has not translated well over the internet. I know what these people mean when they say corporate/crony (what ever) capitalism. My point is capitalism is capitalism, in any of its formulations, its exploitative dogshite.

oops sorry, I probs need

oops sorry, I probs need sleep

mons wrote: I'm slightly

mons

I'm slightly worried that these protests might add to the influence and numbers of people promoting this kind of perspective, along with the Zeitgeist-type perspective. Or at least it's bringing them out of the shadows and into actual organising and doing stuff, for better or worse. I think a massive load of people, a significant proportion of young people, are really into Zeitgeist-type stuff, and conspiracy theories about Rothschild's etc. That's just based on the people who went to my school and what they're into now though, so isn't based on any actual proper evidence.

The Zeitgeist types seem to be having a coming out party as echoed elsewhere maybe in this thread. It seems to be really intertwined with right wing crypto anti-semite conservative Rothschild conspiracy stuff, and the kids seem to lap it up. Also does anyone know where they get their funding from? They seem to be throwing quite a lot of money around. Would be interested in any leaflet/critiques from an Anarcho perspective.

From the Guardian: Occupy

[youtube]dwmTy6SpHQg[/youtube]

From the Guardian:

Occupy movement: from local action to a global howl of protest

Occupy protests around the world: full list visualised

Mouzone wrote: mons

Mouzone

mons

I'm slightly worried that these protests might add to the influence and numbers of people promoting this kind of perspective, along with the Zeitgeist-type perspective. Or at least it's bringing them out of the shadows and into actual organising and doing stuff, for better or worse. I think a massive load of people, a significant proportion of young people, are really into Zeitgeist-type stuff, and conspiracy theories about Rothschild's etc. That's just based on the people who went to my school and what they're into now though, so isn't based on any actual proper evidence.

The Zeitgeist types seem to be having a coming out party as echoed elsewhere maybe in this thread. It seems to be really intertwined with right wing crypto anti-semite conservative Rothschild conspiracy stuff, and the kids seem to lap it up. Also does anyone know where they get their funding from? They seem to be throwing quite a lot of money around. Would be interested in any leaflet/critiques from an Anarcho perspective.

Couple of years back I wrote a critique of the Zeitgeist and the Zeitgeist Adendum in Hungarian perhaps I will translate it, just to add it to the common. But to sum it up, I would say this is a very dangerous path to choose. First of all, at the heart of all big global conspiracy theories is the assumption is a kind of belief of a universal Evil character. Now, while I don't sympathize with any bourgeois asshole, but they are certainly not evil characters, even if they are bankers. Personal interest only contributes to a social system, that was established on the basis of personal interest, no matter how you make your living, labour or profit.

In the recent times, internet gave a rise of the conspiracy theories big time. While we, communists are sticking to our materialist perspective, which always will involve evidence based arguments, conspiracy theories are "sexy" because they don't pull hundreds of references, proving, deep understanding of the world, only a superficial glimpse to our reality. The partially sad fact is, that while we are right in our method to understand the world through this historical materialism, it is able to hardly challenge such a narrow minded explanations, why the world is shit.

It seems harmless, or even understandable sometimes: the bailout of banks has drawn public attention, and people start to blame the banks. Zeitgeist movement with its "big discovery" of the money multiplier effect could get easily involved with the banker-focused movements. No wonder then, how we ended up with this shit pile at all. But to be honest, I have no clue how to deal with this surge of newage crap. At some point, it's the same as religions: you can't just argue against the existence of god, or the world-conspirator jews, who're living off the fraction reserve system. The very premises of such an ideology is that they are so perfectly disguised, and you're brainwashed not to see them. It's very discomforting to see this happening.

It is discomforting, but I

It is discomforting, but I don't think it's a particularly novel phenonemon. If you look back at the close-grained social history of things like the French revolution or what have you, there's a hell of a lot of conspiracy theory going around at the time.

I think the problem (conspiralunacy) is more fundamental and one that we have to understand and confront as promoters of a left perspective. While I don't accept Lakoff's concept of cognitive frames entirely uncritically, the terms can be useful.

People understand the world through stories and the basic convention of stories is to personalise or embody problems and principles into characters. So most people's starting position, as a frame, is to see the existence of evil as an indication of wickedness or "bad people". The left perspective is that social problems are predominantely caused by systemic problems. Our difficulty - and the conspiraloon's opportunity - is that the "systemic problem" frame is much more difficult (at least initially) to sell than the "wicked people" frame. But sell it we must.

One of the more effective ways of challenging frames is to make them explicit and lay them out for inspection. In this case we need to convince people that Grimm's fairy tales may have been an effective way of scaring kids to stay out of the woods in times gone by, but that they are not going to help us overcome the problems of a system that works according to a logic of money rather than human need.

I remember seeing a documentary on Toni Negri a few years back and he came out with a line something like "Evil does not exist. There's no evil, there's only us" - which given Negri's somewhat Luciferan past, may not be as reassuring as it might otherwise be ;) , but I think the point is sound. Of course it's hard not to see the likes of Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein as evil hollywood-style villains, but if we are serious about capitalism as a social system being the problem, not the individuals who happen to currently be filling the roles of the top capitalists, then we do have to push that line to a degree.

ocelot: I read your post with

ocelot: I read your post with interest. I think your example of how people understand the world is quite useful to challenge this strain of conspiracy theorist perspective. Though it seems quite a task: basically it's idealism vs materialism once more and the old methods clearly didn't do the job.

I think it worth to look in to. It's not just about the zeitgeist, illuminati and such: the understanding of how the world works is essential task for building a revolutionary movement. Effective arguments against the lines of "banks and corruption" would be great weapon against the reformist propaganda.

I think the attendance in

I think the attendance in London was - and continues to be - really low, and this, IMO, indicates some of the limits of this movement. It's predominantly young and internet-savvy hippy liberals whose only unifying ideology is a fundamentalist pacifism. Other than that, I think we should remember that 10x as many people came to G20, 250x more to M26 and more even went to UK Uncut's pro-NHS demo the week before. It's largely clueless, abstract beyond belief and utterly, utterly non-threatening.

Moreover, as the wintry winds and chills set in, as well as the working week, it seems to demonstrate a certain amount of activist ghettoisation in its obstinant, immovable, pseudo-authoritarian 'tactics' and pseudo-discussions. If folks decided to 'occupy' their local parks, or flat blocks, or Job Centres, etc, then I'd be excited.

I mean, I can see a thin sliver of potential in events here (eg if they get battered by the cops and/or abandon their incredibly dogmatic insistence on a strategy that i'm sure even they know will fail), but for the moment at least, I'm applying the Morrissey Law here ("it says nothing to me about myyyy liiife" ;) ).

I think that the issue is

I think that the issue is wider than conspiracy theories involving the Illuminanti, Jews, Rothschilds, etc. These are just an extreme end of a right wing idea that is perfectly compatible with leftism and it is one that is being pushed to the hilt by all elements of the ruling class and their media - they may even believe it, that's not the point. The idea is that the economic crisis is the fault of untamed capitalism, the traders, the speculators, the banks/bankers, the financial side of capitalism - these, or a combination of them, is a source of all ills.

The solution is therefore simple: regulation (or "real" regulation), put a stop to speculation and banking excesses, manage capital in a more equitable manner for the good of all. This is nothing but an ideological smokescreen peddled by the right and the left and its message is to promote the ideas of reform, democracy and the perpetuity of capitalism - and all such related illusions. To this end, the whole of the bourgeoisie's media points their fingers at the "exesses" of capitalism and the irresponsibility of its financial sector.

What is particularly strong about this mystification is that it is based on an element of obvious truth and a real revulsion within the exploited masses against the greed and cynicism of the political and economic apparatus. But the economic crisis of capitalism is much deeper than its symptoms here and there.

It is a system that has attempted to maintain its profits by the extension of debt since the 1970s and all the time needing more and more of the drug in order to maintain its profits. Capitalism has always been a savage system of exploitation with its representatives, whether bankers or industrialists, ready to sacrifice as many workers as necessary on the alter of profits. The amount of debt forwarded to the system in the last forty years (and still growing) can only lead to "irresponsibility" and speculation. For example, in 2008, financial transactions amounted to $2.200,000 billion against a world Gross National Product of $55, 000 billion (http://www.jacquesbgelinas.com/index_files/Page3236/htm), ie, forty times more than real (and this is overestimated) world trade.

The economic crisis is much more profound than financial elements which are only the symptoms of a far deeper and deadly malaise. The left certainly has no answer; look at the "bolivarian socialism" of Chavez (whose largest trading partner is the Great Satan itself) which is attacking the working class and going down the capitalist pan along with everyone else.

Rosa Noir wrote: Quote: R.R.

Rosa Noir

R.R. Berkman wrote:from my point of view as an anarchist-communist who happens to be a Jew, I perceive a metric shit-tonne of crypto/overt anti-Semitism from a lot of the folks.

well yes, i haven't been involved with or even been able to pass by Occupy Newcastle this weekend, but have just seen some photos and what stands out is an anti-semitic "peace" flag hanging in pride of place. Earlier photos show it being carried by one woman (probably a lone conspiracy type) but the fact that it has presumably gone unchallenged and people are happy to have their banners next to it is absolutely shit.

That flag is the symbol of some ufo-religion bullshit that is so fucking bonkers it's not funny but scary and creepy and I want no part of that kind of movement. and people think anarchist flags put 'normal' people off!!!!!

At the age of 27, Claude Vorilhon (now known as “Rael”) was living his passion as a race-car driver and journalist. That was to change on December 13, 1973, when, on his way to work, he had the UFO encounter that transformed his life forever. From that day forward, he has toured the world recounting his astonishing experience in media interviews and conferences.
Listen to Rael as he describes in detail what he lived that day.

Sidney Huffman wrote: Rosa

Sidney Huffman

Rosa Noir

R.R. Berkman wrote:from my point of view as an anarchist-communist who happens to be a Jew, I perceive a metric shit-tonne of crypto/overt anti-Semitism from a lot of the folks.

well yes, i haven't been involved with or even been able to pass by Occupy Newcastle this weekend, but have just seen some photos and what stands out is an anti-semitic "peace" flag hanging in pride of place. Earlier photos show it being carried by one woman (probably a lone conspiracy type) but the fact that it has presumably gone unchallenged and people are happy to have their banners next to it is absolutely shit.

That flag is the symbol of some ufo-religion bullshit that is so fucking bonkers it's not funny but scary and creepy and I want no part of that kind of movement. and people think anarchist flags put 'normal' people off!!!!!

The Raëlians also advocate a crazy system that reminds me of the technocrat weirdos that are the Zeitgeist Movement:

The organizers tolerate all this shit but they threaten to give people's details out if they don't toe their ultra-pacifist line. :x

EGADS wrote: the technocrat

EGADS

the technocrat weirdos

I wonder what "socialist" forum online has given them a huge platform to spread their silly ideas?

Hey all, Yes the swazi-star

Hey all,
Yes the swazi-star of david is the Raelians. They have a new updated model which is less mind boggling batshit mental but the true believes still hold to the older one. I live in Brisbane which is pretty much their strong-hold in Australia (maybe Byron Bay too) and in my local suburb there is a sculpture of a space ship they helped pay-for.
Occupy Brisbane has also had a fair share of Zeitgeist/Chemtrails/anti-vaccines/end the Fed/Ron Paul/Law of Attraction wackyness. But things really went off the charts when THIS HAPPENED!
There are some positives - a Free University of (Occupied) Brisbane has been started to create space for more serious discussion and that is getting some good attention.
Also there are a lot of interesting people who just drop by and want a chat.
cheers
Dave

grumpy cat wrote: Hey

grumpy cat

Hey all,
Yes the swazi-star of david is the Raelians. They have a new updated model which is less mind boggling batshit mental but the true believes still hold to the older one. I live in Brisbane which is pretty much their strong-hold in Australia (maybe Byron Bay too) and in my local suburb there is a sculpture of a space ship they helped pay-for.
Occupy Brisbane has also had a fair share of Zeitgeist/Chemtrails/anti-vaccines/end the Fed/Ron Paul/Law of Attraction wackyness. But things really went off the charts when THIS HAPPENED!
There are some positives - a Free University of (Occupied) Brisbane has been started to create space for more serious discussion and that is getting some good attention.
Also there are a lot of interesting people who just drop by and want a chat.
cheers
Dave

"People are not sleeping in Africa"

This is my favorite

[youtube]sIpJJGiP26A[/youtube]

I think in the end though, the most dangerous (ideologically) will be the liberals.

baboon wrote: I think that

baboon

I think that the issue is wider than conspiracy theories involving the Illuminanti, Jews, Rothschilds, etc. These are just an extreme end of a right wing idea that is perfectly compatible with leftism and it is one that is being pushed to the hilt by all elements of the ruling class and their media - they may even believe it, that's not the point. The idea is that the economic crisis is the fault of untamed capitalism, the traders, the speculators, the banks/bankers, the financial side of capitalism - these, or a combination of them, is a source of all ills.

The solution is therefore simple: regulation (or "real" regulation), put a stop to speculation and banking excesses, manage capital in a more equitable manner for the good of all. This is nothing but an ideological smokescreen peddled by the right and the left and its message is to promote the ideas of reform, democracy and the perpetuity of capitalism - and all such related illusions. To this end, the whole of the bourgeoisie's media points their fingers at the "exesses" of capitalism and the irresponsibility of its financial sector.

What is particularly strong about this mystification is that it is based on an element of obvious truth and a real revulsion within the exploited masses against the greed and cynicism of the political and economic apparatus. But the economic crisis of capitalism is much deeper than its symptoms here and there.

It is a system that has attempted to maintain its profits by the extension of debt since the 1970s and all the time needing more and more of the drug in order to maintain its profits. Capitalism has always been a savage system of exploitation with its representatives, whether bankers or industrialists, ready to sacrifice as many workers as necessary on the alter of profits. The amount of debt forwarded to the system in the last forty years (and still growing) can only lead to "irresponsibility" and speculation. For example, in 2008, financial transactions amounted to $2.200,000 billion against a world Gross National Product of $55, 000 billion (http://www.jacquesbgelinas.com/index_files/Page3236/htm), ie, forty times more than real (and this is overestimated) world trade.

The economic crisis is much more profound than financial elements which are only the symptoms of a far deeper and deadly malaise. The left certainly has no answer; look at the "bolivarian socialism" of Chavez (whose largest trading partner is the Great Satan itself) which is attacking the working class and going down the capitalist pan along with everyone else.

That's the best summary of the thing...However, crazy or not it's what there is....we should carry on (with discussion and enlightment.)

How many of these

[youtube]Oq-CYRKt5mU[/youtube]

How many of these economically illiterate people are trying to keep "the left" from "co-opting" the "movement"? I even heard some of them were defending racists/fascists as part of the "99%".

Definition of PESSIMISM
1
: an inclination to emphasize adverse aspects, conditions, and possibilities or to expect the worst possible outcome
2
a : the doctrine that reality is essentially evil b : the doctrine that evil overbalances happiness in life
— pes·si·mist \-mist\ noun

OccupyLSX have posted a link

OccupyLSX have posted a link to Google Moderator from their twitter page.

Quite interesting, I didn't know about Google Moderator - a useful tool?

Some fairly reformist proposals being put forward - but also the opportunity to directly engage with the people making them and people voting on them.

CRUD wrote: EGADS

CRUD

EGADS

the technocrat weirdos

I wonder what "socialist" forum online has given them a huge platform to spread their silly ideas?

To be honest, RevLeft would still be a pile of shit even without any technocrat mods, considering how it's infested with die-hard trots and tankies. Heck, one of the first threads I read there was one about whether "Stalin was right" and half the twats were justifying what he did. :x

grumpy cat wrote: Hey

grumpy cat

Hey all,
Yes the swazi-star of david is the Raelians. They have a new updated model which is less mind boggling batshit mental but the true believes still hold to the older one. I live in Brisbane which is pretty much their strong-hold in Australia (maybe Byron Bay too) and in my local suburb there is a sculpture of a space ship they helped pay-for.
Occupy Brisbane has also had a fair share of Zeitgeist/Chemtrails/anti-vaccines/end the Fed/Ron Paul/Law of Attraction wackyness. But things really went off the charts when THIS HAPPENED!

This....sounds....terrible....

Arbeiten wrote: grumpy cat

Arbeiten

grumpy cat

Hey all,
Yes the swazi-star of david is the Raelians. They have a new updated model which is less mind boggling batshit mental but the true believes still hold to the older one. I live in Brisbane which is pretty much their strong-hold in Australia (maybe Byron Bay too) and in my local suburb there is a sculpture of a space ship they helped pay-for.
Occupy Brisbane has also had a fair share of Zeitgeist/Chemtrails/anti-vaccines/end the Fed/Ron Paul/Law of Attraction wackyness. But things really went off the charts when THIS HAPPENED!

This....sounds....terrible....

Conspiracy theorists...I think I actually hate them more than I hate fash or tankies(which is a lot!). They're as bad as the frigging primmies. :wall:

Also, this:
DC Hat Guy

The vibes are so good here that I havent smoked drugs for three days

:lol:

yeah the conspiracy theorists

yeah the conspiracy theorists are going to ruin everything! Prims and Fash are conspiracy theorists man. Prims think the whole of humanity and 'civilization' is a conspiracy, while fash have a race conspiracy. I don't know what a tankie is. Sounds like something you would call an alcoholic...

Arbeiten wrote: yeah the

Arbeiten

yeah the conspiracy theorists are going to ruin everything! Prims and Fash are conspiracy theorists man. Prims think the whole of humanity and 'civilization' is a conspiracy, while fash have a race conspiracy. I don't know what a tankie is. Sounds like something you would call an alcoholic...

I know that fash are a different type of conspiracy theorist(mostly the "Jewish finance, political correctness stifling everything, letting the immigrants take over, Islamisation" etc), but at least you don't see the BNP prattling on about chemtrails/vaccines/"poisoned food"/etc.

Though, a good deal of conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones, LaRouche, UK Column et al do have a nationalistic character...

And "tankie" is slang for a Stalinist.

@Arbeiten; tankies are

@Arbeiten; tankies are hardline stalinists, who approve of the tanks being sent into Hungary in '56 and stuff. We used to bump into a couple of them in Jarrow in the old days. They were known as...err...'The Jarra Tankies'.

aaaah Stalinists, gotcha .

aaaah Stalinists, gotcha ;). Didn't realize they existed outside of RevLeft...

As for conspiracy theorists and fash. Yeah totally, just look at the stupid flag ^^^^

DC Hat Guy wrote: The

DC Hat Guy

The vibes are so good here that I havent smoked drugs for three days

That guy is actually beyond parody.

The lameness and high profile wankery of this Occupy movement is great propoganda for authoritarian Stalinist types...

Yeah that article and the DC

Yeah that article and the DC Hat Guy is pretty ridiculous, but that's where a lot of people are and it's worth engaging with. Also, the vibes being so good that he hasn't felt like drugs for a few days (when presumably normally he has stuff all the time) is genuinely good!

This is from a local Leninist

This is from a local Leninist blog, some brief reports on 3 out of the 4 current occupations in New Zealand. It seems fairly accurate to me, unfortunately.

Occupy Wellington

Don Franks writes:

A friend of mine went on the Saturday, the first day of the event and told me later that the majority were young hippies, smoking dope and drumming.

Two of us looked in on the Sunday morning. At the top of the bridge there was just a row of placards and no people, but they were there round the corner.

One the small grassy space beside the top of the bridge was a ring of five or six pup tents with an inner circle of twenty young hippies on mats, deep in discussion. For a former hippie like me it was like being suddenly transported back to 1971. The only difference between today and our old Jerusalem commune was what they were passing round. We used to circulate a number, or else an ordinary tobacco cigarette. These folks were passing a small blue plastic baseball bat which served them as a talking stick.

They were quite uninterested in our appearance and we stood a bit awkwardly for a minute waiting to be called onto their marae. Then a slightly older guy got up and came over to greet us. We had a bit of a yarn with him standing apart from the circle.

When asked he said they’d had no trouble with the police, who’d left them alone to chalk their slogans on the walls and play their guitar. We commented that there was no one there that we recognised from the left and asked if they were hooked up to any organisation, he said they were unaffiliated to anything. ( I felt there must have been some common association, because they were all very much the same in terms of age, appearance and general demeanour.)

When we asked where this thing was going he proudly said they were hoping to get the mayor down to meet them, as if this was the high point of their project. I said mate, the mayor and the council are totally committed to capitalism, she’s part of the problem.

He’s like, ah but we’re hoping to win her over. Knowing the mayor would be capable of eating them all for breakfast before she was properly awake I got a bit shitty and tried, with spectacular lack of success, to convince the guy that the mayor is one of the enemy. He was not to be moved and said them and the mayor both agree on light rail. His manner, I have to say, was that of a kindly vicar patiently explaining something to a rather stupid child. I was uncomfortably reminded of my own past know it all hippie mindset.

Not long after that we shook hands and agreed to disagree about the revolutionary potential of the mayor. We wished them well and headed back home.

On reflection the gathering had an overall religious feel to it. They were certainly heavily fixated on something and it wasn’t anti-capitalist militancy of any variety that I’ve ever come across.

I’d been feeling a bit guilty about going, the day before, to the Kapimana Country and Western club instead of the first day’s protest. Well, perhaps Occupy Wellington may develop in a bit more progressive direction, but it’s hard for me to see how. If the guy I debated with is typical they are nice enough folks but not very open to any concrete anticapitalist concepts.

Occupy Christchurch.

Phil Ferguson

Saturday 15th October

I was at the Christchurch Occupy site very briefly for a while before and after 1pm Saturday. I’d say there were maybe a hundred people there. Mostly faces I didn’t know, which was good; but, again, a rather student/bohemian-looking group. There was an open mic and I heard about half a dozen people speak; mainly they wished for a better world with equality and caring and sharing and so on.

Everyone got a polite clap, even a besuited young guy who said it was wrong to attack corporate

greed because corporate greed could be good for society and we were all greedy anyway and that the problem was something to do with the political system. Longtime local anarcho-feminist Jo spoke about the October 15 arrests and how they fitted a longtime pattern of suppression in this country…

One of the speakers was also a student from Linwood College, one of the lowest-decile high schools here and one that was hard hit by the quakes. He and a few others had started up a Political Society at school and he said they had 16 members.

Thursday 20th October

There are now about four bigger tents and about ten pup tents. They are in one small corner of Hagley Park and could be girl scouts / boy guides / woodfolk / whoever. I only saw about a dozen people, but I guess there must be 20-30 of them…

When I looked at the wee encampment what struck me was the dichotomy between the reality (a few tents and alternatively-looking folk) and the grandiose title “Occupy Christchurch”. The authorities don’t feel at all threatened by it – there were no cops in sight. (Although given the levels of paranoia in some parts of the state apparatus, as revealed by the Urewera case, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t an undercover spook somewhere there).

I mean there might be various criticisms that could be made of the Occupy Wall Street people, but they are actually occupying Wall St (or trying to) as far as I know. Everyone can understand the point of that protest, regardless of what disagreements there might be about it. But “Occupy a wee corner of Hagley Park” – I mean, what’s the point?

With the earthquakes and the CBD still being closed, the capital properties of the local bourgeoisie are rather spread out and there isn’t really an obvious target here that equates to Wall Street – but a corner of South Hagley Park still seems pretty naff! It seems to be not really about promoting any effective form of struggle; rather about doing something that makes the protesters feel good.

I got politically active when I was 14 and I can kind of imagine that I might’ve got a bit excited about living in a tent in Hagley Park for a few days back then…but no-one is pointing out that this is not occupying Christchurch or posing any political questions, but is just a few people camping out.

Dunedin

This report is compiled from a number of emails I received about the events which I’ve paraphrased plus my own reflections from my brief visit on Monday.

Colin Clarke

The beginning of the ‘Occupy Dunedin’ protest was marked by a eulogy to the recently deceased capitalist Alan Hubbard who the IRD were attempting to prosecute for a variety of dubious offences. The speaker saw him as a bulwark against the bankers and someone who had helped out his local area. In many ways, this speech summed up the political confusion of the occupation. On the Saturday, many different political groups had an input, from the international Socialist Orgnisation who some see as trying to dominate proceedings, to others who were only there to attempt some electioneering.

The occupation is taking place right in the centre of the city, the Octagon, in a small space that is now almost completely covered by tents. The prime location of the site is such that it is hard for anyone to ignore and indeed, the Mayor, Dave Cull, and the CEO of the Council, Paul Orders visited together. Cull’s offer for people from the occupation to address a council meeting caused quite a bit of discussion between those who were in favour of the idea and those who saw it as in opposition to the politics of the protest. In the end, a delegation attended the council meeting on Wednesday evening.

Occupy Dunedin at the council.

When I visited on Monday afternoon, there were small groups sat around talking but I was struck by the fact that no-one came up to me to tell about the occupation or ask to me what I thought about it. This didn’t seem very inviting, especially for a protest that is supposed to be involving the majority of people against the 1%. Luckily, I met a few people who I knew and was able to talk about the occupation with them.

While the political ideas of those occupying are very diverse and full of contradictions, the fact that even for a short space of time, there is a prominent space for people to discuss politics could be a positive point. However, it’s important to not go overboard about the potential of this essentially small gathering of activists. At the moment, it is basically a talking shop but it would be good if the energy and idealism of those involved could lay a solid basis for organising in Dunedin in the future.

Capetown - video from

Capetown - video from zeitgeist

[youtube]HlEUQw-37H4[/youtube]

Wolfram Siener, who is

Wolfram Siener, who is according to the media the best-known public figure of the Occupy movement in Germany is a fan of Zeitgeist-crap and of the "theories" of Bruce Lipton

EGADS wrote: CRUD

EGADS

CRUD

EGADS

the technocrat weirdos

I wonder what "socialist" forum online has given them a huge platform to spread their silly ideas?

To be honest, RevLeft would still be a pile of shit even without any technocrat mods, considering how it's infested with die-hard trots and tankies. Heck, one of the first threads I read there was one about whether "Stalin was right" and half the twats were justifying what he did. :x

I think the Stalinists on that site are trolls but still, it's supposedly the no 1 socialist site online and a great deal of the mods are the Technocracy/Zeitgeist kids who know fuck all of socialism. The dumb asses that run that site aren't doing any of us any favors by allowing that shit to fly. That's what it is, shit. It's not as bad as any free market capitalist or fascist theory but only serves to confuse people as to how to get rid of capitalism (some of the early Technocrats do in fact look like some sort of fascists and they do in fact seek to put a minority in control of the means of production so at the least they're advocating the continuation of hierarchical society). They have some points any socialist would agree with but the the core message is counterrevolutionary even if well meaning.

In the end everyone (average person on the street) is just going to be confused with all these various "solutions" floating around. In comes the same old same old to save the day.....vote Obama in 2012.

Police in Melbourne have

Police in Melbourne have started breaking up the occupation but are meeting some kind of opposition. There are internet/twitter rumours about construction workers and wharfies joining to defend the occupation ( not an impossibility in Melbourne) but I can't find any genuine confirmations beyond photos of a few occupiers in CFMEU (construction union) hoodies.
cheers
Dave

Asher wrote: This is from a

Asher

This is from a local Leninist blog, some brief reports on 3 out of the 4 current occupations in New Zealand. It seems fairly accurate to me, unfortunately.

Occupy Wellington

Don Franks writes:

A friend of mine went on the Saturday, the first day of the event and told me later that the majority were young hippies, smoking dope and drumming.

Two of us looked in on the Sunday morning. At the top of the bridge there was just a row of placards and no people, but they were there round the corner.

One the small grassy space beside the top of the bridge was a ring of five or six pup tents with an inner circle of twenty young hippies on mats, deep in discussion. For a former hippie like me it was like being suddenly transported back to 1971. The only difference between today and our old Jerusalem commune was what they were passing round. We used to circulate a number, or else an ordinary tobacco cigarette. These folks were passing a small blue plastic baseball bat which served them as a talking stick.

They were quite uninterested in our appearance and we stood a bit awkwardly for a minute waiting to be called onto their marae. Then a slightly older guy got up and came over to greet us. We had a bit of a yarn with him standing apart from the circle.

When asked he said they’d had no trouble with the police, who’d left them alone to chalk their slogans on the walls and play their guitar. We commented that there was no one there that we recognised from the left and asked if they were hooked up to any organisation, he said they were unaffiliated to anything. ( I felt there must have been some common association, because they were all very much the same in terms of age, appearance and general demeanour.)

When we asked where this thing was going he proudly said they were hoping to get the mayor down to meet them, as if this was the high point of their project. I said mate, the mayor and the council are totally committed to capitalism, she’s part of the problem.

He’s like, ah but we’re hoping to win her over. Knowing the mayor would be capable of eating them all for breakfast before she was properly awake I got a bit shitty and tried, with spectacular lack of success, to convince the guy that the mayor is one of the enemy. He was not to be moved and said them and the mayor both agree on light rail. His manner, I have to say, was that of a kindly vicar patiently explaining something to a rather stupid child. I was uncomfortably reminded of my own past know it all hippie mindset.

Not long after that we shook hands and agreed to disagree about the revolutionary potential of the mayor. We wished them well and headed back home.

On reflection the gathering had an overall religious feel to it. They were certainly heavily fixated on something and it wasn’t anti-capitalist militancy of any variety that I’ve ever come across.

I’d been feeling a bit guilty about going, the day before, to the Kapimana Country and Western club instead of the first day’s protest. Well, perhaps Occupy Wellington may develop in a bit more progressive direction, but it’s hard for me to see how. If the guy I debated with is typical they are nice enough folks but not very open to any concrete anticapitalist concepts.

Occupy Christchurch.

Phil Ferguson

Saturday 15th October

I was at the Christchurch Occupy site very briefly for a while before and after 1pm Saturday. I’d say there were maybe a hundred people there. Mostly faces I didn’t know, which was good; but, again, a rather student/bohemian-looking group. There was an open mic and I heard about half a dozen people speak; mainly they wished for a better world with equality and caring and sharing and so on.

Everyone got a polite clap, even a besuited young guy who said it was wrong to attack corporate

greed because corporate greed could be good for society and we were all greedy anyway and that the problem was something to do with the political system. Longtime local anarcho-feminist Jo spoke about the October 15 arrests and how they fitted a longtime pattern of suppression in this country…

One of the speakers was also a student from Linwood College, one of the lowest-decile high schools here and one that was hard hit by the quakes. He and a few others had started up a Political Society at school and he said they had 16 members.

Thursday 20th October

There are now about four bigger tents and about ten pup tents. They are in one small corner of Hagley Park and could be girl scouts / boy guides / woodfolk / whoever. I only saw about a dozen people, but I guess there must be 20-30 of them…

When I looked at the wee encampment what struck me was the dichotomy between the reality (a few tents and alternatively-looking folk) and the grandiose title “Occupy Christchurch”. The authorities don’t feel at all threatened by it – there were no cops in sight. (Although given the levels of paranoia in some parts of the state apparatus, as revealed by the Urewera case, I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t an undercover spook somewhere there).

I mean there might be various criticisms that could be made of the Occupy Wall Street people, but they are actually occupying Wall St (or trying to) as far as I know. Everyone can understand the point of that protest, regardless of what disagreements there might be about it. But “Occupy a wee corner of Hagley Park” – I mean, what’s the point?

With the earthquakes and the CBD still being closed, the capital properties of the local bourgeoisie are rather spread out and there isn’t really an obvious target here that equates to Wall Street – but a corner of South Hagley Park still seems pretty naff! It seems to be not really about promoting any effective form of struggle; rather about doing something that makes the protesters feel good.

I got politically active when I was 14 and I can kind of imagine that I might’ve got a bit excited about living in a tent in Hagley Park for a few days back then…but no-one is pointing out that this is not occupying Christchurch or posing any political questions, but is just a few people camping out.

Dunedin

This report is compiled from a number of emails I received about the events which I’ve paraphrased plus my own reflections from my brief visit on Monday.

Colin Clarke

The beginning of the ‘Occupy Dunedin’ protest was marked by a eulogy to the recently deceased capitalist Alan Hubbard who the IRD were attempting to prosecute for a variety of dubious offences. The speaker saw him as a bulwark against the bankers and someone who had helped out his local area. In many ways, this speech summed up the political confusion of the occupation. On the Saturday, many different political groups had an input, from the international Socialist Orgnisation who some see as trying to dominate proceedings, to others who were only there to attempt some electioneering.

The occupation is taking place right in the centre of the city, the Octagon, in a small space that is now almost completely covered by tents. The prime location of the site is such that it is hard for anyone to ignore and indeed, the Mayor, Dave Cull, and the CEO of the Council, Paul Orders visited together. Cull’s offer for people from the occupation to address a council meeting caused quite a bit of discussion between those who were in favour of the idea and those who saw it as in opposition to the politics of the protest. In the end, a delegation attended the council meeting on Wednesday evening.

Occupy Dunedin at the council.

When I visited on Monday afternoon, there were small groups sat around talking but I was struck by the fact that no-one came up to me to tell about the occupation or ask to me what I thought about it. This didn’t seem very inviting, especially for a protest that is supposed to be involving the majority of people against the 1%. Luckily, I met a few people who I knew and was able to talk about the occupation with them.

While the political ideas of those occupying are very diverse and full of contradictions, the fact that even for a short space of time, there is a prominent space for people to discuss politics could be a positive point. However, it’s important to not go overboard about the potential of this essentially small gathering of activists. At the moment, it is basically a talking shop but it would be good if the energy and idealism of those involved could lay a solid basis for organising in Dunedin in the future.

For the record, I think calling redline a leninist blog is a bit over dramatic. Sure, most of the contributors have done done time in various Leninis/Maoist groups but the actual content is far more interesting than that label would suggest. The blog is about trying to analyse the world as it is now, rather than resurrecting shibboleths from the past.

As it is, I write for the blog and do a lot of the site admin but I AM NOT NOW, NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A LENINIST OR TROTSKYIST. I edited and compiled the reports on New Zealand and tried to make it as objective as possible. I'm currently writing (slowly) a longer article on the 'occupy' movement.
Redline can be found here: http://rdln.wordpress.com/

Check this out from the

Check this out from the Christchurch (new Zealand) Occupy GA minutes:

"Labour Day march: no political party may have their flags or any of their advertising on our peaceful march; nor at all, anywhere near our camp site, including unions, AT ALL! :) CARRIED."
http://occupychristchurch.org/general-assembly/

No union flags on a Labour Day march? Go figure

What Labour Day? When? It

What Labour Day? When? It actually sounds pretty cool to me, but then I see all parties and trade unions as part of the system, thus part of the problem, and to be firmly opposed. Surely the parties and unions can have their own separate Labour Day march.

Occupy Sydney was smashed up

Occupy Sydney was smashed up by the cops, they woke everyone at 5.30am and told them they had 5 minutes to leave and stormed in for some agro. About 40 arrests apparently and plenty of bruises.

waslax - New Zealand's Labour

waslax - New Zealand's Labour Day (a public holiday here) is tomorrow, Oct 24th. Apparently Occupy Chch's minutes were wrong though, and the decision they reached was only about political parties, not unions.

Fnord

Has this exemplary resolution

Has this exemplary resolution from Occupy Oakland already been posted somewhere else on the forums?

Solidarity Statement for all striking workers and students

October 20, 2011
This statement was passed by the Occupy Oakland General Assembly last night. Please pass along this information to any and all unions, workers, students, and whoever else might be interested.
1. From this point forward, we offer our support for all strikes taking place in the Bay Area and specifically within Oakland.
2. We commit to offer practical and creative support to those who walk out from union or non-union work places, with or without union leadership.
3.This statement also applies to student strikes.
By issuing this statement, we wish to send a message to everyone in this city, that if you are fighting back, then we got your back. Talk to your co-workers and fellow students. Every grievance against this system is worthy of a collective response.

We encourage everyone, ourselves included, to no longer let our discontent boil beneath the surface. We believe the time to act is now.

By the way, they're facing eviction today, and the ILWU has apparently pledged solidarity.

Ian Bone: 'Occupy London - I

[youtube]apBb4jaxFrw[/youtube]

Ian Bone: 'Occupy London - I was wrong'

Occupy Oakland violently

Occupy Oakland violently evicted:

Photos: http://jpdobrin.com/blog/2011/10/photography-of-police-dismantling-occupy-oakland

Perhaps they crossed the line

Perhaps they crossed the line with the support call for strikes. :lol:

Pigs Raid Occupy

Pigs Raid Occupy Oakland

Here's what a comrade, who's been monitoring this since 4:30 a.m., wrote:

4:30AM mass bust of Occupy Oakland's two sites. Several hundred police, including units from cities as far as Vacaville and Fremont, equipped with riot gear, armored vehicles, helicopters, moved in violently, using rubber bullets, tear gas,... Downtown Oakland is an armed camp. This is a city whose "progressive" mayor Jean Quan marched with a demonstration supporting Occupy Oakland!

It's 9:30 a.m. right now and the pigs are still attacking and arresting protestors. Most streets around Oscar Grant Plaza are still closed by police barricades and crowds are still milling about downtown.

It's no mystery why the Panthers started calling them pigs in Oakland.

Another account:

Indybay.org

Occupy Oakland activists call for solidarity after police violence
by Jesse S
Tuesday Oct 25th, 2011 8:00 AM

"The camp looks like a tornado went through it. Everything is destroyed, and it is currently occupied by hundreds of police."

IndyBay spoke with Tim, an organizer with Occupy Oakland, at 7:45am on Tuesday, just a few hours after numerous police agencies raided the encampment, using rubber bullets, tear gas and flash-bang grenades against activists, before arresting dozens of them.

This is what he said:

"Around 2am word spread that riot police were massing in around the area where Occupy Oakland has been for more than two weeks. Hundreds of people gathered and began to make non-violent barricades at all the entrances to the plaza.

At about 4:30am, riot police appeared on all corners of the encampment. There were roughly 500 to 700 riot police in total.

The entire plaza was completely barricaded on all sides, with palates, trash cans, chairs, a gigantic christmas wreath, police barricades from a neighboring street.

Occupiers began chanting 'go home' as they always do when police show up at Occupy Oakland, but it quickly became clear that there was an overwhelming number of police from at least four different jurisdictions.

As people continued to chant and fell back within the barricade, off of the street, the police announced that we would be arrested within the encampment. They said [they'd use force to disperse demonstrators within] five minutes, and within a minute they fired the first rounds of flash-bang grenades and rubber bullets, and then tear gas into the camp, hitting and injuring multiple people.

At this point much of the crowd began to flee through an area the police had opened up to flush the crowd out. All those who remained were arrested.
We know of roughly 70 arrests and multiple injuries, none of them extremely serious, but many for sure.

At this time people are still standing up to the police line.

We're asking for public condemnations of police repression of the occupy movement in Oakland and we're also saying that people should re-converge at 14th and Madison at the public library for an emergency demonstration at 4pm today (Tuesday)."

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/10/25/18694892.php

Solidarity with Occupy Oakland!

I'm sure locals have better

I'm sure locals have better information coming soon.

Tonight police brutally attacked overwhelmingly peaceful demonstrators in Oakland.

There is a timeline on Indybay: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/10/08/18692795.php

A video from the rally before police assault: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=237706929617056

Here's what the pigs did to the demonstrators:
[youtube]bytMNoKNeRA[/youtube]
[youtube]Jw2AWGZflac[/youtube]
http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/433190207.jpg

From local news: http://www.ktvu.com/video/29587140/index.html
and http://www.ktvu.com/video/29587714/index.html
Eyewitness description of the same thing
[youtube]ilUDHtxkfbo[/youtube]

EDIT: The youtube comments are 50% "fuck the police" and 50% proudly american idiocy.

I do think the massive

I do think the massive emphasis on the banks (which is compatible with Ron Paul, 'fraction reserve banking' and etc.) is potentially very problematic - although probably it's worst in the US where that kind of theory is more day-to-day (and probably about as popular as radical liberalism is in the UK or not that far off).

As promised earlier, here's

As promised earlier, here's my artile on OWS.
http://rdln.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/occupy-wall-street-an-analysis/

(No subject)

[youtube]cMUgPTCgwcQ[/youtube]

'Tonight I shall sleep in my

'Tonight I shall sleep in my bed in protest of the appalling suffering that capitalism, and particularly an extremely nasty group of finance capitalists, inflict on a global level on a day to day basis. I shall do so in solidarity with workers struggles, anti-austerity campaigns, and occupy movements throughout the world.'

I am jesting slightly but I actually have a serious question to ask which is: what is the qualitative difference between the above statement and the fundamental position underlying the occupy movement? The differences I can see are that my protest takes place in my bed, whereas say the London occupation takes place at St. Pauls. Two different locations, yes, but the occupy movement is supposed to be global and to thereby maintain solidarity between different locations. A further difference is the number of people involved - self evidently, a quantitative rather than qualitative one. Any help regarding the problem of the actual (if they exist) qualitative distinctions would be much appreciated.

The Occupied Times of London

pdf version

-----

#Occupy Worldwide on the Global Voices site

jonglier wrote: 'Tonight I

jonglier

'Tonight I shall sleep in my bed in protest of the appalling suffering that capitalism, and particularly an extremely nasty group of finance capitalists, inflict on a global level on a day to day basis. I shall do so in solidarity with workers struggles, anti-austerity campaigns, and occupy movements throughout the world.'

I am jesting slightly but I actually have a serious question to ask which is: what is the qualitative difference between the above statement and the fundamental position underlying the occupy movement? The differences I can see are that my protest takes place in my bed, whereas say the London occupation takes place at St. Pauls. Two different locations, yes, but the occupy movement is supposed to be global and to thereby maintain solidarity between different locations. A further difference is the number of people involved - self evidently, a quantitative rather than qualitative one. Any help regarding the problem of the actual (if they exist) qualitative distinctions would be much appreciated.

Dialogue; as opposed to opining waste into the echo chamber.

The Oakland Occupation calls

The Oakland Occupation calls for a general strike on november 2.

Below is the proposal passed by the Occupy Oakland General Assembly on Wednesday October 26, 2011 in reclaimed Oscar Grant Plaza. 1607 people voted. 1484 voted in favor of the resolution, 77 abstained and 46 voted against it, passing the proposal at 96.9%. The General Assembly operates on a modified consensus process that passes proposals with 90% in favor and with abstaining votes removed from the final count.

PROPOSAL:

We as fellow occupiers of Oscar Grant Plaza propose that on Wednesday November 2, 2011, we liberate Oakland and shut down the 1%.

We propose a city wide general strike and we propose we invite all students to walk out of school. Instead of workers going to work and students going to school, the people will converge on downtown Oakland to shut down the city.

All banks and corporations should close down for the day or we will march on them.

While we are calling for a general strike, we are also calling for much more. People who organize out of their neighborhoods, schools, community organizations, affinity groups, workplaces and families are encouraged to self organize in a way that allows them to participate in shutting down the city in whatever manner they are comfortable with and capable of.

The whole world is watching Oakland. Let’s show them what is possible.

The Strike Coordinating Council will begin meeting everyday at 5pm in Oscar Grant Plaza before the daily General Assembly at 7pm. All strike participants are invited. Stay tuned for much more information and see you next Wednesday.

http://www.occupyoakland.org/2011/10/general-strike-mass-day-of-action/

The Los Angeles Police Dept.

The Los Angeles Police Dept. stood down from a planned raid on Occupy L. A. this morning. It seems that the police violence in Oakland caused Mayor Villaraigosa to re-consider the attack for now.

Thanks to OWS, far more

Thanks to OWS, far more people around the U.S. understand what occupation means as a tactic. This will make a big difference for other struggles -- less explanation is needed regarding the formal aspect and we can get right down to the nitty gritty. And now that everyone's watching Oakland, the same thing could happen for (general) strikes. After all most young proletarians in North America haven't had much direct experience after a generation of relative class peace. Everything in Oakland seems much more auspicious for some kind of general strike than anything else I can remember (except that basement spokescouncil meeting before the Miami FTAA that called for a global general strike, oh wait jk). The agitation in Wisconsin this spring for a strike was important, but still just agitation. An actual mass assembly in Oakland just made this call.

So I'd propose that it makes sense for everyone, even in distant parts, to throw what they have into solidarity or at least spreading the word. Bets have been paying off much better than they usually do. Why not go, relatively speaking, all in?

Hmm. Call me skeptical, but

Hmm. Call me skeptical, but until I see official union participation, I don't think this will go anywhere towards what we think of the term. Possibly a bigger demo than usual, but other than that, I don't know. I mean to go from a relatively tame protest of 1,500 to a general strike in a week seems like a massive, impossible jump.

Juan Conatz wrote: ...to go

Juan Conatz

...to go from a relatively tame protest of 1,500 to a general strike in a week seems like a massive, impossible jump.

At this point anything can happen.

I was in Honolulu, Hawai'i for the general strike of November 1969. The decision to strike by the ILWU in solidarity with local state government workers and the University of Hawai'i was arrived at the day before the strike. It was a one day strike but it happened and showed the power of the general strike.

I started a new thread on the

I started a new thread on the Oakland situation: http://libcom.org/forums/north-america/occupy-oakland-general-strike-call-28102011

Juan Conatz wrote: Hmm. Call

Juan Conatz

Hmm. Call me skeptical, but until I see official union participation, I don't think this will go anywhere towards what we think of the term. Possibly a bigger demo than usual, but other than that, I don't know. I mean to go from a relatively tame protest of 1,500 to a general strike in a week seems like a massive, impossible jump.

I totally agree. Every time I see on facebook/twitter etc, someone advertise this strike, I ask them if there are any unions involved. I never get a reply. I mean, I call for a general strike at least once a day. But it never happens...

I went to occupy LSX last night for a bit. There was a half an hour meditation session. About 200 people sitting on the steps in silence....I wasn't keen.....

Arbeiten wrote: Every time I

Arbeiten

Every time I see on facebook/twitter etc, someone advertise this strike, I ask them if there are any unions involved. I never get a reply.

I was at the Occupy Oakland General Assembly last night and during the strike preparation break-out, I joined the labor group (others were community outreach and education, which in turn broke into 3 groups: K-12, community college, and university). Lots of piecards talking a lot, but saying nothing. But others in the break-out made clear that this is a first attempt at a general strike, which I personally find a little premature, but it was a very powerful popular sentiment and most were clear that we were planting the seed of an idea that might take a while to bear fruit. Next weeks action is only the opening salvo.

Part of this sentiment for militancy goes back to the March 4th education movement in the Bay Area where Trotskyite groups tried to highjack the movement, preaching that "people weren't ready," by steering it into harmless teach-ins and rallies -- culminating with a rally in San Francisco at 5:00 p.m., intentionally planned to be after work and including every pro-Democratic Party piecard giving their boilerplate speeches.

On March 4, 2010, the actions that refuted this were in Oakland, where from the start of the day at least 3 high schools had total walk-outs and over 3,000 students and teachers converged on (what we now call) Oscar Grant Plaza. Another contingents of students from Berkeley High, Berkeley City College, UC Berkeley and others, marched 4.5 miles to Oscar Grant Plaza and participated in a noon demo of 6,000. It was before the mayoral election, and the high point was when the MC of the demo kicked mayoral candidate (& current mayor) Jean Quan off the stage, saying that no politicians or bureaucrats could speak.

In the labor break-out, when it was my turn to speak, I made clear that in the U.S. only 11.9% of the working class are in unions. So for a general strike to succeed, it will take the involvement of the unorganized 88.1%. This fixation on the unions will be its undoing. I pointed out that the unorganized troqueros (short-haul truckers) at the Port of Oakland had an 8-day wildcat in 2004 and have had other skirmishes with the cops during other spontaneous strike actions since then. 16,500 troqueros shut down the Los Angeles/Long Beach Port complexes on May Day 2006 by a factor of 90%, creating a backlog of imports from Asia that took months to clear up.

Those troqueros are clearly the most militant proletarian sector in California, having a track record of militant direct action for nearly a decade. During the labor break-out, I also made the point that all our literature needs to be translated to Spanish, and since the port of Oakland is about 12 blocks away we should do outreach there. A representative of ILWU Local 10, who are the longshore workers at the port, spoke but it was mostly the usual canned speech about "we're with you," with no mention of any possible concrete actions.

I also mentioned that Oakland Chinatown begins just 4 blocks from Oscar Grant Plaza and that there are still many garment sweatshops and other cottage industry factories nearby, so we should also get literature translated into Chinese and reach out to our fellow workers there.

I tried to make the point that this needs to go beyond the narrow definition of labor (usually connoting unions), and become a class movement.

http://www.socialistworker.co

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=26529

Armed police raid tents full of Kurds at St Pauls.

Hi y'all. This is one of my

Hi y'all.

This is one of my first posts here and what I've written is incomplete as there is way more that could be said. It's just some reflections from my observation of Occupy in Christchurch, NZ. I haven't been down to it but have been watching via facebook and information from friends involved.

Reflections on the Occupy Movement.

There is much to like about the current Occupy movement, with its energy and enthusiasm in wanting to see a better world and the willingness to do something to work towards this.

There is also however some questions which are worth exploring in the approach this movement has taken and how it sees this better world coming about.

Much has been written already by Anarchists, Libertarian Communist and Marxists globally as critiques of the Occupy movement so it is not the intention to completely repeat this here. The intention is to look at several of the assumptions made by this movement and briefly explore the approach taken.

Some assumptions:

The General assembly ‘G.A.’ is a new approach to decision making.

The G.A. is direct democracy in action and is a way of making decisions collectively. It is most encouraging to see the Occupy movement learn and experiment with this form of decision making, obviously if we desire a world without rulers then learning to govern ourselves requires this. It is important to remember however that G.A’s have a rich history not only within the working class struggles of Spain, Greece and other parts of Europe but also in the Americas and is in fact common place in struggles in South America. It could be worthwhile for the Occupy movement to look at this history. It may then be noticed that G.A.s have commonly been used in struggle whether workplace or community as a means of all those participating to be involved in the direction of the struggle. It is in these struggles, with all the antagonisms and tensions that direct democracy is at its sharpest.

http://libcom.org/library/anarcho-syndicalism-puerto-real-shipyard-resistance-community-control

http://libcom.org/library/exarchia-square-neighbourhood-assemblies

Occupying a park is the same as other occupations:

Occupying a public space like the corner of a park is different to occupying a workplace or office. Generally the purpose of occupying is to take control of that space, to confront and kick out the boss, thereby workers taking control of their workplace.

Occupations have also been traditionally used by indigenous peoples as a way of holding onto and defending their land, culture and communities from colonisation or to reclaim this land, culture and communities from the injustices of land confiscations and attempted genocide.
It is also commonly used by landless peasants as a way of claiming and holding onto a place to exist.

What these all have in common is that they directly confront power.

The Occupy movement are generally occupying space as a way of spotlighting or highlighting everything from greed to inequality. They do this by camping out in public space and it requires media attention and community participation and involvement to work. A kind of ‘look at us’ spectacle meant to draw attention to many issues.

The problem with this approach is that it seems to be based on the idea that working people need to go to the occupations to engage with those there, when it makes more sense to engage with working class people in everyday life i.e. the workplace, university campus, home and community. This requires the occupiers to leave their occupations and actively engage with everyday people where they are, agitating and organising within the realms of everyday life.

What can also occur is that through these occupiers living and sharing a particular space they build a comradery which in itself is great however can become quite inward focused and potentially alienating to those on the outside. The Occupation itself can also become the most important thing, an end in itself, with many resources and energy needed for it to continue to exist. Is this the best use of people’s time and energy, holding onto a physical piece of public space or would that time and energy be better spent directly confronting capitalist power relations in everyday life?

Activism is usually an approach where a minority believe they are acting for the betterment of all, an attitude best summed up in a sign displayed at Occupy wall St which stated “we will act for you until you wake up”. This has traditionally been the approach of activists, whether environmental or otherwise. A minority group of people with legitimate concerns acting separate to and sometimes in opposition to the working class. It also is more a form of lobby than a direct action tactic that directly confronts power.

http://libcom.org/library/give-up-activism

http://zinelibrary.info/anarchist-reader-effective-organizing

The occupy movements desire for a better world based on mutual aid, co-operation and non-hierarchical direct democracy, is certainly to be supported. However it may also be worth encouraging occupiers to use the networks, connections and momentum gained from these occupations. Keep connected and when they go back to everyday life having been empowered, agitate and organise, taking the struggle to places where the potential for revolutionary change can occur by confronting capitalism.

Get involved and support workers strikes, University occupations and community struggles and don’t just sit in the park and expect these struggles to come to the Occupations, get amongst it. Make this a mass movement based on working class solidarity and struggle.

Jano Charbel: photos from

Jano Charbel: photos from Occupy London

EDL attacked occupy newcastle

EDL attacked occupy newcastle last night. More here: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/10/487677.html?c=on

Sidney Huffman wrote: wow i

Sidney Huffman

wow i passed through there at the weekend and i didn't see that banner and to be honest i couldn't see what the problem was at first glance at the photo you posted...but it is a star of david with a swastika inside it isn't it? i am blind as a bat without my glasses mind... :oops:

Hello there dearies first of it is the symbol of Infinity and it is my flag, and yes I am Raelian as well I believe in peace, love and prosperity. The symbol of inifnity is the combination of the swastika inside of the star of david and it is a blue print of life , the universe and everything, and the research of Nassim Haramein correlates to it. The swastika exists in many ancient cultures of Hinduism, Buddhism and Vedic. It can be used to provide ideas that would spark ideas of free energy and anti gravity technology.
Why the fuck should fascism get the credit for such an ancient symbol when it was linked to prosperity, peace and good fortune or luck ?

I come from Sunderland and come up on occasion,as well as tried to get my free energy generator to work to provide lighting for the camp, since it is one of my experiments for my art exhibition, but failed, but even though its the thought that counts... only a narrow minded twat would see it in a negative perspective... since i painted it on a rainbow flag it is obvious to be of peacefull motove with diversity in mind... since fascisim dislikes diversity... yes i got anoyed at people proclaiming and associating it with zionism and nazism and ww2 -_- , anyways....
Much love and Huggles and Namste

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/28/occupy-london-city-st-pauls?CMP=twt_gu

Occupy LSX's demands are largely for the 'democratisation' of the City of London.

anyone know how the Oakland

anyone know how the Oakland 'general strike' is going?

Word from the livestream and

Word from the livestream and twitter is that the ILWU has honored the strike call and shut down the Port of Oakland.

EDIT: "#occupyoakland ILWU vet Jack Heyman: port shutdown "could go for 24 hours or more."

The swastika is ancient your

The swastika is ancient your right. But that has no baring on a swastika in the star of david. That is just a disgrace, unless you can point me to an ancient Buddhist Jewish sect, in which case I might reconsider.

Hieronymous thanks for your reply, sorry I didn't see it sooner! I meant the question in the most comradely fashion because i genuinely had no idea who else was involved in the general strike call out and could not find answers anyway.

Caiman del Barrio

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/28/occupy-london-city-st-pauls?CMP=twt_gu

Occupy LSX's demands are largely for the 'democratisation' of the City of London.

:wall: every time I go to LSX I want to cry

no doubt that swastika / star

no doubt that swastika / star of david flag attracts a certain amount of attention wherever it goes....which i suspect is the point.

According to a tweeting

According to a tweeting guardian journalist http://twitter.com/#!/AdamGabbatt there is no strike at the Port of Oakland today. There was a safety related walk out yesterday however.

RedEd wrote: According to a

RedEd

According to a tweeting guardian journalist http://twitter.com/#!/AdamGabbatt there is no strike at the Port of Oakland today. There was a safety related walk out yesterday however.

Someone on revleft called RED DAVE says otherwise...

"The Port of Oakland is shut down. Workers, cvil servants, students and teachers are gathering hours before the planned march there."

link to revleft thread

The following came to me by

The following came to me by email. I posted this on the Occupy Oakland thread, but I'll post it here too:

Jack Heyman, a long-time activist in Local 10, told The Internationalist in a phone report:

“This morning, the membership of ILWU Local 10, in the union’s best tradition of supporting solidarity actions, refused to take jobs posted in the hiring hall. One of the young brothers took the mike [at the Local 10 union hall] appealing to longshore workers, men and women, to refuse to take jobs in solidarity with Occupy Oakland. The response was overwhelming. Out of 300 or so jobs on offer, perhaps a third were dispatched. But most of the skilled jobs had no takers, so those ships stood idle. This effectively shut down the port this morning. Even now, with port officials scrambling to find workers, the port is barely limping along. The Port of Oakland and the ILWU International issued statements saying the port is working, but as of an hour ago there were only four cranes working out of around 30, less than 15 percent. And there is a huge line of trucks with containers, at least two or three miles long, stretching from the port into the city of Oakland, just waiting to be unloaded.”

Paul Mason - #OWS: The brand

Paul Mason - #OWS: The brand leaders cannot afford to ignore

Schwarz, that is great news.

Schwarz, that is great news. It seems like it'd be great if port workers had their own assemblies to decide about collective action in this case. Hopefully people will build for that. Because otherwise there's no basis to combat scabbing, for example. (you can't reasonably physically stop people working untill an assembly of workers has decided to strike)

Arbeiten wrote: The swastika

Arbeiten

The swastika is ancient your right. But that has no baring on a swastika in the star of david. That is just a disgrace, unless you can point me to an ancient Buddhist Jewish sect, in which case I might reconsider.

Hieronymous thanks for your reply, sorry I didn't see it sooner! I meant the question in the most comradely fashion because i genuinely had no idea who else was involved in the general strike call out and could not find answers anyway.

Caiman del Barrio

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/28/occupy-london-city-st-pauls?CMP=twt_gu

Occupy LSX's demands are largely for the 'democratisation' of the City of London.

:wall: every time I go to LSX I want to cry

Um in ancient India/Hindu / Vedic the swastika is within a star of david , i dont know why people make it such a big deal :/

zwitterelf wrote: i dont

zwitterelf

i dont know why people make it such a big deal :/

Because in the UK today people assosiate the star of david with judaism and the swasitica with Nazism, and putting them together looks really fucked up to almost everyone. The most common conclusion that people in the UK today will draw other than just being really confused is that you want to assosiate the current state of Israel with the Nazi controlled state of Germany in order to score political points against Israel's policies to move palestians off their land. Now I know that is nothing to do with what you mean, but that is how people will understand it. And that's the thing about symbols, you don't get to make up what they mean. They exist in a complicated matrix of pre-existing cultural signifiers and so on. Just wacking a swastika inside and star of david and saying this means what I want it to mean won't fly. That's not how symbols work. Regardless of your intentions, people are going to be upset, scared and alienated by it, because they don't know your intentions, but do know the common cultural meanings of those two symbols.

Mystical idiot is an idiot.

Quote: and saying this means

and saying this means what I want it to mean won't fly.

@RedEd; hmm, maybe not the best choice of metaphor when attempting to communicate with a raelian :lol:

This person has posted on the Occupy Newcastle FB page that flying saucers were hovering about protecting the camp, although they were presumably on their fucking tea-break when the occupiers were attacked by the fascists early last Sunday morning.

zwitterelf wrote: Um in

zwitterelf

Um in ancient India/Hindu / Vedic the swastika is within a star of david , i dont know why people make it such a big deal :/

I'm pretty sure you do, and I'd even go as far as to suggest that that's why you insist on using it. Petty attention-seeking IMO... :roll:

My thoughts on the distance

My thoughts on the distance of #Occupy from the dynamics of our real lives:

Pierce Penniless - To my

Pierce Penniless - To my friends: on #OccupyLSX

Occupied Times #2 (pdf)

Edit: links posted for information - tbh I'm not sure of my views on participation in the occupy camps here.

I'll just leave this

I'll just leave this here

You can see the full pic @ http://london.indymedia.org/system/photo/2011/11/06/9030/12_thin_line_but_no_violence.jpg
I can count 25?

Quote: Mystical idiot is an

Mystical idiot is an idiot.

Thinks you should stop picking on the hippies.

A question for the raelian, You believe in intelligent design, but that design is carried out by aliens rather than God. Who designed the aliens?

Occupy Sydney

Occupy Sydney Update

Apologies if this is TL;DR, I've put cliff notes at the bottom if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing.

Having recently felt guilty of standing at the sidelines, attending a few GA's but not really engaging, I and a comrade decided to go to the next GA and put forward different anarchist perspectives.

Myself and a comrade went along to Hyde Park thinking there was a GA was on tonight, but people had made the way to a council meeting at Town Hall, where a Greens councillor had put forward a motion about providing a space for tents and to investigate police brutality.

Surprisingly this wasn't passed.

But apparently Clover Moore (Mayor of Sydney) offered a "forum" where people can discuss issues of inequality etc.

There was then a meeting to discuss these events, items and there seemed to center a prodigious amount of time and attention on the press releases and media responding to the prior meeting.

A lot of people put forward a number of reformist liberal perspectives e.g. emailing and writing to councillors, a prominent figure in the movement mentioned that he didn't think it was good for the "movement" for people to shout and confront councillors because we want to attract left wing types as well as conservatives and there seemed to be fairly wide agreement with this. :-(

It seems that one of the biggest obstacle to overcome is the self regulating police inside everyones heads.

I tried to put forward a different viewpoint focusing on direct action and attempted to explain that in my humble opinion begging politicians was fruitless exercise as their interests lie in power and wealth and they would simply support the interests they represent. I went on to explain that they were never going to allow a space to allow anti-capitalist discussion. I elucidated that we should look to Occupy Oakland for inspiration and envision direct action and gave occupying Town Hall as an aspiration that we should ponder. At this point, I was somewhat shouted down by gentleman in a Zeitgeist t-shirt (this chap I think http://www.occupysydney.org.au/about/about-columnist-ziggy/) and friend who suggested I was being an "extremist". To which a squatter comrade who I bumped into there supported me. But most looked at me like I was from neptune.

The whole process was socially awkward and neve racking and I felt like people thought I was a complete tool, it was like climbing Everest in a pair of rollerskates. So if you are going to put forward anarcho/radical ideas have some people standing with you who are ready to support you as it's a fucking excruciating experience.

Finally there was approximately 15 - 25 people there (mainly from Marxist-Leninist "socialist" parties) tonight and I the mood of a few non trot people spoke to, was one of frustration with the endless meetings and having no space in the streets to discuss their own concerns and struggles. I believe there is a real danger of the movement falling flat and people becoming disinterested and withdrawing if there isn't a return of the movement back on the streets. Soon.

Cliffs:
--------
* Councillors act in the interest of Capital and begging them for space ended IMHO nothing but a whole lot of time and energy wasted.

* There is a real lack of radical perspectives and politics being put forward and discussed and it's fucking hard work explaining them.

* In Sydney we desperately need a space soon or people are simply going to get bored of the meetings with no end and disengage.

Mouzone wrote: I feel

Mouzone

I feel similar regarding the occupy Sydney movement that has sprung up here, it seems to be a mix of Alex Jones conspiracy types and Zeitgeist people.

For example a demand that kept popping up in the FB groups that were set up was to "stop the Government putting fluoride in water"...

quite aside from conspiratorial notions, do you think it's a good idea to put fluoride in water? it appears to me to be a form of mass compulsory medication. i would think if people wish to supplement their fluoride intake, they could choose to do this of their own accord.

Caiman del Barrio wrote: My

Caiman del Barrio

My thoughts on the distance of #Occupy from the dynamics of our real lives:

this was interesting, and in a roundabout way pretty much summed up my thoughts on the whole thing.

Caiman Monique's Story:

Caiman

Monique's Story: Facing Foreclosure

Yeah that's here in

Yeah that's here in Minneapolis, on the Northside, which is the hood, and a place OccupyMN has had little to do with or little success in reaching out to. There's been some anti-eviction work here in the past, mostly pushed by Freedom Road Socialist Organization, some of who are involved in what's left of the occupation (it's starting to get down to 28 F at night, which is -2 C). I'm not sure what their role in this is though, as the FBI raids on their organization severely disrupted them is my impression.

From Anarkismo Occupy - the

From Anarkismo

Occupy - the assembly process is the revolution

from PDX indymedia

6:02AM:
Police have ordered protesters to leave the streets and move into Chapman Square.

5:47AM:
Trimet is putting up closure signs as 4th and Madison bus stop.

5:31AM:
Spotlights are turned off now

5:09AM:
Police motorcycles blocking 4th and Madison have left, protesters still thick in intersection at 3rd and Madison. A barricade remains at 3rd and Main, but no police there.

5:07AM:
The cops are still holding position on SW 3rd & Madison and so are the people.

5:07AM:
Police say the parks will not be open at 5am

4:50AM:
Protesters cheering, lining up at 3rd and Madison in front of police, who are now lined up two deep.

4:49AM:
Protester on bullhorn asks everyone to stay til 5:30. "what's one more hour--we seek change indefinitely."

4:41AM:
LOTS of riot cops coming. Pepperspray being handed out to riot cops.

4:40AM:
Getting reports that media have been asked to move away protesters.

Veterans join Occupy Protest

Veterans join Occupy Protest (London)

http://www.oregonlive.com/por

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/occupy_portland_police_raze_ca.html

Was at St Pauls yesterday and

Was at St Pauls yesterday and saw this poster:

Not sure who's idea it was to use this but is street violence official Libcom policy?

I'd be really pissed off if one of those cars was mine. Not that this sort of thing will go down well with the Occupiers anyway.

Errr. so if it comes to that,

Errr. so if it comes to that, you would not be happy to use cars as barricades? Just asking, because at the end of the day, cars are the most common element of any urban scenery, and nothing much to build barricades from.

wojtek

Caiman

Monique's Story: Facing Foreclosure

Yeah I wrote the blog a couple of days before seeing this. I then tweeted it at #occupylsx...PRECISELY the sorta thing I'm advocating. Well done Minneapolis folks!

alb wrote: Was at St Pauls

alb

Was at St Pauls yesterday and saw this poster:

Not sure who's idea it was to use this but is street violence official Libcom policy?

I'd be really pissed off if one of those cars was mine. Not that this sort of thing will go down well with the Occupiers anyway.

It's a pic of Paris1968 i believe

Sounds like the cops are

Sounds like the cops are mobilizing to evict Occupy Oakland right now.

Also, did anyone post this up already?
http://antistatestl.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/the-good-the-bad-and-the-wingnutty-occupystl-one-month-on/

Glad to read that Occupy St. Louis is holding it down with strike support. But, in tracking down the link, also saw that the occupation was evicted Friday. Fuck.

alb wrote: I'd be really

alb

I'd be really pissed off if one of those cars was mine. Not that this sort of thing will go down well with the Occupiers anyway.

Yeah, i think that is how the bourgeoisie will feel when we start expropriating the expropriators....

soc wrote: Errr. so if it

soc

Errr. so if it comes to that, you would not be happy to use cars as barricades? Just asking, because at the end of the day, cars are the most common element of any urban scenery, and nothing much to build barricades from.

What you want to build barricades for -- to fight the police or overthrow the state? In either case you're not going to win.

I can't see that such macho posturing is any use to the working class. What the Occupiers have done is much more useful -- creating a space where issues of concern to the working class can be freely debated in a non-confrontational atmosphere. The intervention of Black blobbers would only ruin this. See this.

"to fight the police or

"to fight the police or overthrow the state?"

Then what else do you suppose anarchist are fighting for? Oh, wait a minute... is it not what you are fighting for?

Cut the crap! The occupy movement produced nothing more nire what we had before, discussion place is all over the world, but action? Now that what is missing. The fucking endless chattering about world peace and bankers greed seem like doesn't get any further. So what exactly so special about the Occupy#?

But you know what, I won't ruin your precious OLSX. I checked them out couple of times, and I have no wish to interfere with your meditation sessions. Go on, and raise the spirit of Gandhi...

[edit] Strong feelings aside, I would like to point out, that I don't oppose creating discussion spaces. My problem is when someone taking up such movements as end in themselves and readily dismiss any further action as counterproductive while it could be the result of what people learned during their discussion.

soc wrote: Cut the crap! The

soc

Cut the crap! The occupy movement produced nothing more nire what we had before, discussion place is all over the world, but action? Now that what is missing. The fucking endless chattering about world peace and bankers greed seem like doesn't get any further. So what exactly so special about the Occupy#?

Right on the money.

What occupy does, right now, is tightening the grip of their own enslavement by demanding conditions of their life be softer. Appeals to the government to please, PLEASE put the banks in their place, and oh, while you're at it, higher wages pretty please? Just a thought. I mean, apparently life is good and if only the banks would cut the crap we'd all live in peace, and who would ever say no to more money? I think the Inuit need fridges too, FRIDGES PLEASE?

The problem though is that they are not challenging the problems at the root and by trying to be reformist by proxy, aka let the state handle it after a bit of appeal, they are saying a big, fat YES to their general conditions of life.

So what if you now earn $5.5 per hour instead of $4.80 or banks are dropping the casino stuff? You still have to drag your rotting carcass to work every goddamn fucking day just to get by. Get up, kiss your boss's ass, come home, watch TV, go to bed. Rinse and repeat for all your life.

Just that the new, "softer" conditions appease your sense of rebellion. They dull the knife of true change.

The positive thing about the occupy movement is that it seems to be relatively open to new ideas, but sadly from all directions, including the far right conspiracy stuff. In my limited experience, communists are dismissed as lunatics, as people going against "common sense".

Railyon wrote: soc

Railyon

soc

Cut the crap! The occupy movement produced nothing more nire what we had before, discussion place is all over the world, but action? Now that what is missing. The fucking endless chattering about world peace and bankers greed seem like doesn't get any further. So what exactly so special about the Occupy#?

Right on the money.

What occupy does, right now, is tightening the grip of their own enslavement by demanding conditions of their life be softer. Appeals to the government to please, PLEASE put the banks in their place, and oh, while you're at it, higher wages pretty please? Just a thought. I mean, apparently life is good and if only the banks would cut the crap we'd all live in peace, and who would ever say no to more money? I think the Inuit need fridges too, FRIDGES PLEASE?

The problem though is that they are not challenging the problems at the root and by trying to be reformist by proxy, aka let the state handle it after a bit of appeal, they are saying a big, fat YES to their general conditions of life.

So what if you now earn $5.5 per hour instead of $4.80 or banks are dropping the casino stuff? You still have to drag your rotting carcass to work every goddamn fucking day just to get by. Get up, kiss your boss's ass, come home, watch TV, go to bed. Rinse and repeat for all your life.

Just that the new, "softer" conditions appease your sense of rebellion. They dull the knife of true change.

The positive thing about the occupy movement is that it seems to be relatively open to new ideas, but sadly from all directions, including the far right conspiracy stuff. In my limited experience, communists are dismissed as lunatics, as people going against "common sense".

The occupy movement in America is unlike anything that has existed for decades, I don't think discounting it because it isn't anarchist enough for you is fair. It really is a beautiful moment I believe, nothing in the history of American social movements post 1960s can compare with its size and popular appeal.

Of course, anarchists are constantly demonized, and every occupation even has their own "peace police", which I'm as ready as anybody to say is absolutely absurd. That being said I can't help but think that a lot of these problems we have brought on ourselves. There are people running around in hoodies and masks smashing windows and calling themselves anarchists. As long as this black bloc business in the U.S. continues nobody will take anarchism seriously.

I think its worth pointing

I think its worth pointing out (because there seems to be some confusion) nobody is advocating a black bloc. The picture is not of a black bloc. Neither soc, nor Railyon have said anything about a BB!

I agree with you Soapy, occupy is one of the most interesting large scale events to happen in the US in a long time.

That said, it doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical. To my knowledge (all I really know is Oakland and Wall Street camp and even then, to be fair, I wouldn't say I am knowledgeable hehe), Oakland* is actually showing signs of opening up a new space for class struggle, while WS has become little more than spectacle....

*Of course, BB showed up here, but from what I have read, they largely found it counter productive....

deleted DP

deleted DP

Soapy wrote: The occupy

Soapy

The occupy movement in America is unlike anything that has existed for decades, I don't think discounting it because it isn't anarchist enough for you is fair.

Fair enough. Guess I was just... riled up a bit.

Still, I think the anti-reformist points are valid. Not necessarily mine, but a lot of people have said something about that. One can only hope the movement grows out of that.

Soapy

That being said I can't help but think that a lot of these problems we have brought on ourselves. There are people running around in hoodies and masks smashing windows and calling themselves anarchists.

I'm inclined to agree with you there but I don't like the implication that people who smash windows are not "anarchists proper". I personally see nothing wrong with "fucking shit up", pardon the choice of words, but I can understand how that is problematic in relation to our "public image".

Maybe we should arrange more teach-ins at the occupy camps. But I guess from the sound of it a lot of people have already tried that...

Edit:

Also, I think Guy Debord would have a field day with this lol. Occupy is a spectacle of refusal, not a refusal of spectacle. Or not, maybe I should read his stuff again.

Railyon wrote: Soapy

Railyon

Soapy

That being said I can't help but think that a lot of these problems we have brought on ourselves. There are people running around in hoodies and masks smashing windows and calling themselves anarchists.

I'm inclined to agree with you there but I don't like the implication that people who smash windows are not "anarchists proper". I personally see nothing wrong with "fucking shit up", pardon the choice of words, but I can understand how that is problematic in relation to our "public image".

Maybe we should arrange more teach-ins at the occupy camps. But I guess from the sound of it a lot of people have already tried that...

Edit:

Also, I think Guy Debord would have a field day with this lol. Occupy is a spectacle of refusal, not a refusal of spectacle. Or not, maybe I should read his stuff again.

I think that what could be really useful is the formation of some sort of anarchist network that would allow us to plan creative actions without having to go through the liberals at the general assemblies. Maybe this could include a focus on organizing workers, creative direct actions and occupations, etc.

alb wrote: I'd be really

alb

I'd be really pissed off if one of those cars was mine. Not that this sort of thing will go down well with the Occupiers anyway.

Well, it seems they've already started to rewrite history that is within living memory and occurring only a few months ago. So just tell them Paris 68 was non violent peaceful resistance and they'll be happy to ignore the facts and imagery.

Jim Clarke wrote: Soapy

Tommy Ascaso

Soapy

I think that what could be really useful is the formation of some sort of anarchist network that would allow us to plan creative actions without having to go through the liberals at the general assemblies. Maybe this could include a focus on organizing workers, creative direct actions and occupations, etc.

Don't several already exist?

I'd say they don't. As far as the anarchists in DC (which is where I live) are concerned there is no such thing. We've never heard of one. There was NEFAC but I haven't heard anything from them in a while.

Occupy Oakland: Pre-dawn raid

Occupy Oakland: Pre-dawn raid clears Frank Ogawa Plaza

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15725819

I heard Oakland retook the

I heard Oakland retook the plaza today again, though.

Happening now! Police have

Happening now! Police have surrounded Liberty Square and have ordered all occupiers to disperse http://www.livestream.com/occupynyc

Reports of two dead on

Reports of two dead on twitter, no idea if there is any truth to this. But it seems unlikely as no press reports.

^ I haven't heard that

^
I haven't heard that anywhere, so I doubt it

Hmm please dont assume me

Hmm please dont assume me wkithout even to get to truely understand me or know me -_- well I have done a video on tube which explains the symbol quite graphically ((^_^)) The Symbol Of Infinity, an artistic expression

Thank you, ((^_^)) everyone

Thank you, ((^_^)) everyone is entitled to believe what they wish to believe. I would rather be a hippie than a banker or soldier to be honest... Yes Intelligent design where life had been developed on this planet in the model of system development life cycle as used in computer systems as an example, by extra terrestrials. Aliens is rather a derogatory political correctness term and discriminatory for star people/ETs/EBEs/Elohim.. Darwinism standing alone is retarded.

I dont like what is happening

I dont like what is happening at the moment at Wallstreet with the cops violently enforcing evictions, which is physical assault.

wojtek

Caiman

Monique's Story: Facing Foreclosure

http://caimandelbarrio.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/time-to-re-occupy-our-own-lives/#comment-18 ;)

Some people have decided to

Some people have decided to 'occupy' the Guardian's comment section* :(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/15/occupy-london-occupies-cif

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/15/occupy-london-statement-corporations-big-business

For people who apparently dislike corporations, they don't seem to have grasped the idea of the corporate media.

*read act as unwitting pawns so the Guardian can be all pseudo-radical and increase its revenue.

@alb Most of what can be said

@alb

Most of what can be said about the subject has been covered by others already, but I just want to point out that there is no "macho posturing" behind using cars as barricades. Just common sense.

No one is advocating, or waiting the moment to go car burning , it wouldn't make sense, unless in the right context. Just like during the may revolt it wouldn't had made sense to go "creating a space where issues of concern to the working class can be freely debated in a non-confrontational atmosphere".

The barricades that protected the Sorbonne were useful at the time, and making the police back away from the neighborhood after a few days of street fighting was crucial for the establishment of the GA there, and the inspiration for some groups of workers to take action immediately.

At the time I'm sure many watching those actions saw nothing more than fights the police, but those in the streets took their chances, and happened to be right.

These two comments from

These two comments from Occupy Wall Street occupiers after the police raid seem rather sensible:

The Occupy Wall street movement said: "You can't evict an idea whose time has come. Politicians may remove us from public spaces -- our spaces -- but we are engaged in a battle over ideas." (Evening Standard, 15 November)

Justin Stone-Diaz, 38, from Brooklyn, said that a physical campsite was no longer needed. "the revolutionary thing about the movement was the political meetings, involving a neighbourhood-level government."(Times, of London, 16 November)

After all, it was a consciousness-raising exercise that couldn't/can't go on for ever, not the beginning of the overthrow of the state.

The battle over ideas continues.

alb wrote: ... it was a

alb

... it was a consciousness-raising exercise that couldn't/can't go on for ever, ....

Why the "was", as if it's finished? It isn't anywhere close to being finished. It is still in its very early stages, and it won't end until it has achieved far more than it has achieved so far.

Massive turnout at Occupy

Massive turnout at Occupy Wall Street N17 (NYPD estimate 30,000)

follow this livestream:
http://www.ustream.tv/theother99

and the general twitter stuff
http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23OWS

Also just seen an anarcho-syndicalist flag go past the livestream camera :)

Massive crowd in high spirits, wonder if direct action will go down.

NYPD have got LRADs (long range acoustic device) and excessive forces, also banned news helicopters from the airspace above the march. There are also rumours that twitter has banned the OWS hashtag from it's top trending tags.

Plenty of trade unonists out.

Also apparently Anne Hathaway has joined the march :confused:

also an NGO called unitedNY

also an NGO called unitedNY (unitedNY.org) are impromptu stewarding and attempting to do the NYPD's work for them.

I'm hearing 30,000 are on the

I'm hearing 30,000 are on the Brooklyn Bridge right now

a former police chief was

a former police chief was arrested in conjuntion with OWS
http://www.observer.com/2011/11/former-philadelphia-police-captain-ray-lewis-arrested-ows/

pretty funny photo

Heavy handed response from

Heavy handed response from police
[youtube]jKRQodSK7dU[/youtube]

The unions were pushing part

The unions were pushing part of N17 as a type of 'action for a job program' day. There was a 'bridge' theme and bridges were occupied in numerous cities. NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, Milwaukee are the ones I know of.

At least 11 arrested in Minneapolis,not sure about elsewhere.

Juan Conatz wrote: The unions

Juan Conatz

The unions were pushing part of N17 as a type of 'action for a job program' day. There was a 'bridge' theme and bridges were occupied in numerous cities. NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, Seattle, Milwaukee are the ones I know of.

At least 11 arrested in Minneapolis,not sure about elsewhere.

At the bridge in DC the police were blocking the protesters from occupying. While people were deciding what to do people from the non profit called "ourdc" linked arms in front of the police and settled the matter for us, they were helping the police to prevent anyone from getting onto the bridge! Fucking liberals.

Interesting development in

Interesting development in London

Occupy London ‘repossesses’ multi-million pound bank offices

Guardian - Occupy London takes over empty UBS bank – live

EDIT

Squat website

EDIT

Occupy London press conference

Anatta wrote: Interesting

Anatta

Interesting development in London

Occupy London ‘repossesses’ multi-million pound bank offices

Guardian - Occupy London takes over empty UBS bank – live

EDIT

Squat website

EDIT

Occupy London press conference

This is AMAZING

Ramona wrote: Anatta

Ramona

Anatta

Interesting development in London

Occupy London ‘repossesses’ multi-million pound bank offices

This is AMAZING

Alessio Rastani? REALLY?

Nice. A building is much

Nice. A building is much better then in front of a church me thinks.

Caiman del Barrio

Alessio Rastani? REALLY?

Obviously not, but the general idea is an improvement on the other occupies.

Caiman del Barrio

Ramona

Anatta

Interesting development in London

Occupy London ‘repossesses’ multi-million pound bank offices

This is AMAZING

Alessio Rastani? REALLY?

Yeah that's a bit dubious. Fair play to Josie Long though!

Agree with the comment that occupying buildings is far more radical than sitting in a tent.

Occupying a building has

Occupying a building has already been attempted in the US, first, in Oakland, CA on Nov. 2, and more recently in Chapel Hill, NC. In both cases, the occupation didn't last long before being forcefully evicted by the cops.

I think there is info on both of these instances on this very thread.

a report from St Louis:

a report from St Louis: http://libcom.org/news/st-louis-mo-usa-n17-march-against-austerity-%E2%80%93-joyful-unruly-crowd-takes-building-report-one

waslax wrote: Occupying a

waslax

Occupying a building has already been attempted in the US, first, in Oakland, CA on Nov. 2, and more recently in Chapel Hill, NC. In both cases, the occupation didn't last long before being forcefully evicted by the cops.

I think there is info on both of these instances on this very thread.

Yeah I meant in the UK.

Seems to me that the whole

Seems to me that the whole Occupy thing is throwing up so many questions is has to be good in the end because it will help to clarify positions. I've attended asembleas in Granada and been on marches and came away thinking it was a gigantic headfuck because so little was actually said and because it was so defensive. The marches were noisy and people had their little slogans but they ended up just drifting away without any rally or final point to them. The first one was almost farcical because Granada CF had just been promoted to the Primera in La Liga and when the march arrived at the town hall the plaza was full of Granada fans so there was this kind of 'ahhh ...' moment. But what has been happening in Madrid and Catalunya is much more significant (the anti-eviction mobilisations and now the occupation of vacant buildings reminiscent of casas del pueblo, for instance). And obviously Oakland is a really significant development given the relative dumbshit nature of US politics vis a vis an imperially-subjugated people. I'm hoping that the Ron Paul/End the Fed/Alex Jones/militia/gold&silver fuckwits make merry hell at the two-party ball because that will have an agitational effect, while organisation amongst workers like in Oakland and Wisconsin will give some scope to the spread of revolutionary ideas. If the Occupy movement is significant it is because it is unprecedented in revealing the cracks in the US imperialist edifice and therefore throwing up a challenge to libcoms to understand how the capitalist system is tottering and how we can organise on that basis.

And I just gotta salute the raelian guy for contributing to this discussion in such a profound and thought-provoking way. Right on, brother, may your forelock touch your divining rod.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/m

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/CLGF-msnbc.pdf

Quote: I have every right to

I have every right to be there as much as you do... as we are the 99%...

Sure you do. Just a word... the 99% includes probably 99% of the idiots, too. Maybe a little less. Maybe not. But certainly anyone who uses an avatar made up of a swastika and a star of David has to count himself/herself as being one of those idiots. I know I sure count him/her when counting idiots.

Mostly 2nd and 3rd hand, but

Mostly 2nd and 3rd hand, but here ya go anyway:

They occupied a 2nd house in Minneapolis. I'm unclear on whether it was foreclosed and empty, foreclosed and owned by the bank but had the former owner still living there or about to be foreclosed on and has the owner living there. The police showed up and something like a 100 people links arms around the house to keep police from getting in. 2 people were arrested. The cops left. There's a meeting going on now about what to do next. Folks are unsure whether the police are coming back or not. I was about to head there, but a Wob said not to and that he would update me in a bit.

Also, I believe in Seattle they just occupied a foreclosed house.

Inevitably, the Democrats,

Inevitably, the Democrats, through some of the unions are now going to try and use the energy of the occupy movement into tangible electoral gains
-Here’s what attempted co-option of OWS looks like

But now SEIU’s effort to convert and degrade the Occupy movement into what SEIU’s national leadership is — a loyal arm of the DNC and the Obama White House — has become even more overt... A coalition of labor and progressive groups is about to unveil its answer to that question. Get ready for “Occupy Congress.”

The coalition — which includes unions like SEIU and CWA and groups like the Center for Community Change — is currently working on a plan to bus thousands of protesters from across the country to Washington, where they will congregate around the Capitol from December 5-9, SEIU president Mary Kay Henry tells me in an interview.

This is the previously mentioned occupied house in Seattle

Finally, some of this is

Finally, some of this is coming to light. I was actually expecting Anonymous or one of those groups to accomplish this.

-The cop group coordinating the Occupy crackdowns

But a little-known but influential private membership based organization has placed itself at the center of advising and coordinating the crackdown on the encampments. The Police Executive Research Forum, an international non-governmental organization with ties to law enforcement and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, has been coordinating conference calls with major metropolitan mayors and police chiefs to advise them on policing matters and discuss response to the Occupy movement. The group has distributed a recently published guide on policing political events.

Speaking to Democracy Now! On November 17, PERF Executive Director Chuck Wexler acknowledged PERF's coordination of a series of conference-call strategy sessions with big-city police chiefs. These calls were distinct from the widely reported national conference calls of major metropolitan mayors.

The coordination of political crackdowns on the Occupy movement has been conducted behind closed doors, with city officials and PERF refusing to say how many cities participated in the conference calls and the exact nature of the discussions. Reports of at least a dozen cities and some indication of as many as 40 accepting PERF advice and/or strategic documents include San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Portland, Oakland, Atlanta, and Washington DC.

The San Francisco Police Department and Mayor Ed Lee's office did not returned the Guardian's request for comment about the PERF calls by press time. However, Oakland interim Police Chief Howard Jordan was quoted by the Associated Press confirming Oakland and San Francisco police involvement in the strategy sessions.

PERF coordinated a November 10 conference call with city police chiefs across the country – and many of these cities undertook crackdowns shortly afterward.

"We know that there were influential conference calls of private groups that include police chiefs who played key roles in repressing the anti-globalization movement, in order to stage rolling attacks on occupations across the country,” said Baruca Peller, an organizer for Occupy Oakland. “In less than a week an unprecedented number of protesters have been brutalized and arrested, and in many cities such as Oakland these evictions were pushed for by the local one-percent.”

It seems the UC Davis kids

It seems the UC Davis kids getting pepper sprayed is turning into a big deal. It's been tearing through online (both the video and various pictures). TIME has an article on it. I believe CNN covered it just moments ago. It's trending on Minneapolis Twitter when OccupyMN hasn't since the first few days.

The picture

Also, earlier today, thousands of students did a sit-in outside the Chancellor office and I believe she wouldn't leave. When she did everyone was creepy silent. Shit is eerie, lol

[youtube]CZ0t9ez_EGI[/youtube]

The video of her walking to

The video of her walking to her car reminds me of the last scene of The Birds!!

Comrades in DC occupied the

Comrades in DC occupied the abandoned Franklin School building yesterday. When the school was shut down years ago it was turned into a homeless shelter, this shelter was then closed by the city days before hypothermia season. The city promised the shelter's residents that they would be put in public housing, but of course Mayor Fenty reneged on this promise.

Unfortunately a massive police operation occurred yesterday and successfully evicted the occupiers, but I think the occupydc encampment is starting to shed off "the police are the 99%" nonsense, and might be going in some more productive directions.

I was in Zuccotti when it was

I was in Zuccotti when it was raided. The police roughed me up a bit and I spent about a day and a half in jail. Good times. I'm pretty sure I'm never going to see any of the property I had with me ever again.

The second foreclosed house

The second foreclosed house in Minneapolis had the pigs kick in the door and push everyone out. I imagine the more property these Occupys take over, the more fierce police response. OccupyMN just doesn't have the numbers to defend property for long.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/11/police_officer.php

There is a video that shows the pepper spraying, which BoingBoing described as similar to spraying pesticide. VIllageVoice rightly pointed out that that much pesticide would kill your yard.

There is an amazing part of the video though, where the everyone starts chanting "we will give you a moment of peace to leave". I swear you can see the fear in the eyes of the police when they are backing away.

Anyways, I'm really hopeful that Monday will see a student strike in response. People are really pissed about this - and this is one of the UC's "non-political" campuses...

Occupy movement has been

Occupy movement has been moving in a highly fruitful direction in NZ lately.

In the Hutt Valley, which is a relatively working class area on the outskirts of Wellington, people have set up 'Occupy Pomare' on the spot where they have been evicted from their State housing.

Housing New Zealand began the demolition of 88 state homes last month, saying the current housing stock did not meet the needs of the community.

Yesterday on Farmer Crescent, about 20 protesters erected tents surrounded by headstones and crosses representing ''lost houses''.

Headstones were emblazoned with RIP and the number of years the house had been lived in by a local family - for many, several decades.

The Occupy Pomare group want the government to build more state houses instead of selling the land to private developers, saying it is already difficult for low-income families to get affordable housing.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5999490/Housing-NZ-demolitions-cause-heartache

Occupy Wellington have also begun supporting CMP meat workers in Marton who have been locked out for a month after refusing to accept a contract which includes such attacks as a 20-30% pay cut. OW will be putting out a press release soonish however there is more info on the lockout here. Several contingents of OW participants have been up to the picket line now.

I was at the picket this morning and also made it up to Marton to meet with these workers last week and can attest to the fact that they are seriously staunch and prepared to continue to fight it out. Pretty impressive really considering how long they've been locked out for now. The company has asked for a mediation on Wednesday so we will see how that goes, however until then anyone with a few extra bucks should throw so money into the account mentioned in the article I linked to.

Edit: Oh yeah, interestingly, the boss of Anzco (the company that owns CMP Rangatikei) has been awarded the Wellingtonian businessman of the year award. Have a geeze at the scumbag here.

http://www.talk2action.org/st

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/11/20/201457/18/Front_Page/Occupying_Hate_in_Springfield_Massachusetts

Occupy Springfield (MA) morphed into "Occupy Hate" on Friday in a protest outside of the evangelical coffee house ministry of anti-gay activist Scott Lively.

OliverTwister wrote: There

OliverTwister

There is an amazing part of the video though, where the everyone starts chanting "we will give you a moment of peace to leave". I swear you can see the fear in the eyes of the police when they are backing away.

tears in my eyes watching that, amazing.

Does anyone know more about

Does anyone know more about this?

https://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/11/14-1

I guess some anarchists occupied a vacant car dealership and got arrested by a bunch of cops with M16 assault rifles.

me wrote: Anyways, I'm really

me

Anyways, I'm really hopeful that Monday will see a student strike in response. People are really pissed about this - and this is one of the UC's "non-political" campuses...

I was really hoping that the General Assembly yesterday would push for a student strike at UC Davis. Sometimes radicals dream so small.

UCD General Assembly

As decided upon by the General Assembly of the University of California, Davis with 99% approval, we call for a system-wide university strike for Monday November, 28th. We do so in response to the tactics of privatization and austerity pursued by the ruling bodies of our universities (UC Regents, Board of Trustees, and local administration), as well as the armed suppression of dissent unleashed upon students over the last sever...al years: http://reclaimuc.blogspot.com/2011/11/uc-davis-strike-call.html

As the students, faculty, and workers who compose the University of California, we declare this day of action against the administrative elite and in solidarity with the struggles for economic and political justice from California to Cairo. They hurt us and we strike! We call on students, faculty, and workers to join us as we resist austerity, fight against the police state, and reclaim the University of California!

No more business as usual! Goals and activities include:

Shutting down the UC Board of Regents meeting across all four campuses!

Teach-Ins and Workshops--topics to be announced

Assemblies to build solidarity among university workers (academic and non-academic) and students

I was wondering, when I read

I was wondering, when I read the news that the General Assembly had passed a motion for a systemwide strike with 99% in favor, just how representative this was. The GAs I've seen at Davis have ranged from somewhere between several dozen to several hundred, probably 400 at the upper end.

Then I found this picture:
If you want more of a close up, there's also this:

This is at a university without any established Left organizations, nor are there any in the town around it.1

By the way, the quad where they held the GA is the same one where the students were pepper-sprayed.

1From a reflection on a 2009 occupation that went further than at other UC Campuses:http://reclamationsjournal.org/issue01_monsieur_hulot.html
We were able to carry out such an unexpected and amazing common activity precisely because we are in the “cow-town” of Davis, because we do not have the established student Left of Berkeley, LA, or Santa Cruz. We do not have the “responsible” Left who would attempt to organize us in advance towards responsibly ineffective activities, and we do not have the more rhetorically radical Left who would also attempt to choose our activities—and the meanings of those activities—for us in advance.

@

@ #217

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/11/13/1641362/activists-take-over-vacant-franklin.html

CHAPEL HILL -- A police tactical team of more than 25 police officers arrested eight demonstrators Sunday afternoon and charged them with breaking and entering for occupying a vacant car dealership on Franklin Street.

[...]

In a statement Sunday night, police said they had been monitoring the building since Saturday night when they learned attendees of an anarchist book fair held this weekend were aligning themselves with Occupy Chapel Hill and that about 70 people had entered the former car dealership.

"Officers also learned that strategies used by anarchists in other communities included barricading themselves in buildings, placing traps in buildings, and otherwise destroying property," said the statement released by Sgt. Josh Mecimore. "The group in the ... building used large banners to obscure the windows to the business and strategically placed members on the roof as look-outs."

Police waited until the crowd had reached "a manageable size" before moving in Sunday, the statement said.

A crowd of between 50 and 75 people gathered across the street, watching and taking pictures as the bus carrying the protesters pulled away. They jeered police officers, chanting, "Shame! Shame! Shame!" When someone noticed the Wells Fargo advertisement on the side of the bus, they began chanting "Who do they serve? Wells

The group, who identified themselves as "anti-capitalist occupiers" moved into the former University Chrysler and Yates Motor Co. building at 419 W. Franklin St. on Saturday night, the police statement said.

The brick and cinderblock building with large windows fronting the sidewalk is owned by out-of-town businessman Joe Riddle and has stood empty for many years. One demonstrator said they were acting in the tradition of working-class squatters' movements around the world that some say inspired the Occupy Wall Street movement and its offshoots across the United States.

The group printed a flier that proposed a possible new use for the space that would include a free clinic, kitchen, child care, library and dormitories, among other uses. The flier acknowledged they were breaking the law by entering the building.

"Make no mistake: this occupation is illegal," it said, "as are most of the other occupations taking place around the U.S., as were many of the other acts of defiance that won the little freedom and equality we appreciate today."

As for coming with rifles to evict an occupation, I don't know what they were thinking.

OliverTwister wrote: Then I

OliverTwister

Then I found this picture:
If you want more of a close up, there's also this:

Holy shit! That's amazing!

It has to be the largest political crowd at UC Davis ever.

A totally reasonable and

A totally reasonable and proportionate response by our fellow workers in uniform.

tastybrain wrote: A totally

tastybrain

A totally reasonable and proportionate response by our fellow workers in uniform.

I see no one's ever told you what a hard job it is.

If you didn't already know,

If you didn't already know, that picture of the cop spraying the UC Davis students has now become an internet meme. I quite hilarious one at that.
http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

Also, check out the reviews for this Pepper Spray! LULZ
http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-56895-Stream-Pepper/dp/B0058EOAUE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Juan Conatz wrote: If you

Juan Conatz

If you didn't already know, that picture of the cop spraying the UC Davis students has now become an internet meme. I quite hilarious one at that.
http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

Also, check out the reviews for this Pepper Spray! LULZ
http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-56895-Stream-Pepper/dp/B0058EOAUE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Hahah thanks so much for posting these links

Radio Unnamable is still on

Radio Unnamable is still on the air, and had both ex-Yippies! and ex-Family-UAW/MF members on talking about Occupy!

http://wbai.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=353&Itemid=142

http://archive.wbai.org/

"Family" as in the Manson

"Family" as in the Manson "family"? :eek:

tastybrain wrote: "Family" as

tastybrain

"Family" as in the Manson "family"? :eek:

No, The Family was the official name of the Up Against the Wall Motherf**kers (UAW/MF), aka The Motherf**kers.

TODAY 3PM Sol Fed workshop on

TODAY 3PM Sol Fed workshop on organiser training @ Tent City, OCCUPY LSX, St Pauls, London

http://westcoastportshutdown.

http://westcoastportshutdown.org/

Looks like another port blockade is in the works, this time (assuming it actually happens) extending all up and down the West Coast to include Seattle, L.A., Tacoma, and a few other cities I believe. If this actually gets off the ground it could be extremely interesting. Damn I wish I was on the West Coast!

Very interesting statement by

Very interesting statement by Occupy Seattle concerning the 12th. A clear statement that the Occupation sees itself as part of the workers' movement and the wider aims of the Occupation. The linking of the protest about increasing repression is also important. There are illusions in the unions but generally this is one of the most proletarian statements I have seen from the Occupation movement.

Per ernie's post, another

Per ernie's post, another interesting and promising statement:

We, the students of UC Davis, condemn the brutal police assault and pepper spraying of fellow students, who were peacefully protesting on November 18.

This attack is part of a nationwide—in fact global—crackdown on demonstrations against social inequality and the domination of politics by the rich. While the American government invokes “democratic rights” to justify wars abroad, it responds to social protests at home with riot police, tear gas and rubber bullets.

While Chancellor Linda Katehi is directly responsible for the police raid, she was enforcing a nationwide campaign orchestrated by the entire political establishment. Throughout the country, Democratic and Republican politicians—including the Brown and Obama administrations—are dismantling public education, cutting social services, and undermining all our basic social and democratic rights. Some of the most brutal attacks on Occupy demonstrations have been carried out by Democratic Party mayors.

The way forward is clear: No support should be given to either of the two parties! The dictates of the banks and corporations can be countered only through the independent social and political struggle of the entire working class.

We call upon students and working people all over the world to support our struggle against budget cuts. Our fight is your fight! Right now, students and workers in Greece, England and Egypt are engaged in a common struggle.

The global protests that began in 2011 must be expanded to a mass movement of students and workers to defend our rights and finally put an end to the domination by the corporations and super-rich over political and economic life.

I saw it on wsws, but can't find it on the Occupy UC Davis page. Then again, that page hasn't been updated since Monday's strike.

Juan Conatz wrote: If you

Juan Conatz

If you didn't already know, that picture of the cop spraying the UC Davis students has now become an internet meme. I quite hilarious one at that.
http://peppersprayingcop.tumblr.com/

Also, check out the reviews for this Pepper Spray! LULZ
http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Technology-56895-Stream-Pepper/dp/B0058EOAUE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Ha ha, brilliant. This is my favourite

Comment moved to new thread

Comment moved to new thread here:

http://libcom.org/forums/news/update-california-occupy-movement-02122011

Recently I've been getting

Recently I've been getting more involved with OccupyDC stuff and I have unearthed some unsettling news. It seems that the SEIU is in many ways playing a larger role in OccupyDC than I feel comfortable with. The action committee, whose meetings are being held often in secret, is apparently made up mostly of paid SEIU organizers and liberals. One of the latest actions they organized was an action where occupydc members picked "1% pen pals", writing letters to bankers and politicians asking them why they supported the policies that they do. SEIU paid organizers have been planning most of the latest actions by occupydc including the large ones coming up this Tuesday and Wednesday.

On Tuesday and Wednesday large scale civil disobedience is to take place around K Street, the area of the city where most of the lobbying firms are headquartered as well as the offices of members of congress. The SEIU has contacted the police and told them which buildings will be occupied and who will be trying to get arrested where.

This comes on top of a recent action during an attempted occupation of the Key bridge during which members of the non-profit organization "OurDC" (which I've been told is in fact a branch of the SEIU) linked arms together to help the police block access to the bridge and ordered protesters to move onto the sidewalks.

Today I went to our school's occupy meeting and low and behold who should be there but at least one paid organizer from the SEIU. This SEIU shit needs to stop. How soon will it be before the action committee organizes canvassing for Obama outings?

You must occupy the

You must occupy the occupation

Neither indignados nor

Neither indignados nor rebels, but fighting proletarians!

The disaster of the capitalist mode of production is taking on clearer and clearer contours: the catastrophe is maturing. Indifferent to the scornful little smiles we meet with at the mere mention of the word, we communists have always taken a “catastrophic” view: in other words we know that catastrophe is the inevitable end to a mode of production such as the capitalist one, which unceasingly exalts the forces of production, subordinating them at the same time to the law of profit and forcing them into the straightjacket of bourgeois social forms. Catastrophe means therefore that, shaken violently by a systemic crisis of overproduction of goods and capital, the entire scaffolding supporting bourgeois society is yielding everywhere. No government in any country can remedy the catastrophe looming, except by intensifying day by day the exploitation of the proletariat by cutting salaries, pensions, welfare and by increasing “productivity” – i.e. further aggravating their living and working conditions. Competition will become acute, the crises will become increasingly intense and frequent, the rush on raw materials will become relentless, geo-strategic positioning will become vital for the survival of one national capital or the other, nationalism will explode in all its forms: this is the prospect. The only way out, which finally, when objective conditions impose it, will be taken by national and international capitals, will be the preparation of a new world war.

Meanwhile, the economic crisis is eating away at privileged positions, convictions, sinecures and guarantees. Not only is the proletariat being hit by the crisis, subjected as it is to a crossfire of precariousness, lay-offs and hopeless dependence on the redundancy fund, the impossibility of finding work or of getting by on miserly pensions. The crisis is also hitting the enormous, shapeless mass of the petit bourgeoisie (the white-collar workers, the working-class aristocracy, the faithful servants of the State, tertiary services of all types, origins, tendencies and natures) that swelled up like an enormous canker in the decades following the end of the second world massacre, in the glorious (!?) years of the economic boom.

These are the people who in the last years and months and all around the world have started to see before them not a luminous future as they had always deluded themselves, but the awful spectre of an increasingly precarious and increasingly unstable economic and social position – the spectre of lost privileges and a downwards slither into the pits of society, the spectre of proletarianization! They have thus been recycling worn-out slogans, “inventing” scenarios older than capitalism, whining prostrate at the feet of the State in the obtuse conviction that there salvation will be forthcoming – anything to avoid recognizing that the enemy is capitalism as a mode of production and that the war will therefore have to be a far cry from “indignant” clowning around: it has to be a class war that opposes class to class. They have filled whole pages of newspapers and blogs with themselves, invoking (in capitalism!) pacifism, democracy, common goods, rights, and then a whole lot of State, legality, morality, autonomy, nation and so on with all the rest: fair trade, sustainability, ethical banks, kilometre zero, control over finance, redistribution of wealth, basic income guarantee, self-managed free spaces, etc. etc. – all the hot air possible and imaginable of “thought” so weak as to be exhausted, catatonic and corpselike, the eternal illusion that it is possible to set out on a path of gradual improvement or that the “blame for everything” might be one government or the other, one politician or the other.

From Plaza del Sol in Madrid to Zuccotti Park in New York passing through Piazza S. Giovanni in Roma, the “indignados” – a ragged army of “subjects”, the multi-coloured regurgitation of frayed half-classes genetically unable to give birth to any ideology that isn’t a bad copy of the pre- or proto-bourgeois variety, the unsuccessful clone of Proudhon’s “philosophy of poverty” – have deluded themselves that they have something to say and that they can say it by making themselves seen and heard.

This minestrone does, however, contain other ingredients, as well as the petit-bourgeois scared by the prospect of proletarianization. In it, of necessity, float the young (and not so young), now truly proletarianized and devoid of hope, who, thanks to all the mongrel theories of the “new professions”, the pathetic recycling of of the seventies’ “theory of needs”, had lived for a time under the illusion of being able to form a class aside, with a separate identity, under the banner of precariousness seen as an alternative to rigid bourgeois hierarchies (“freelance” work, “distance” work, marginality as “freedom from work”). The crisis is sweeping away these phantoms which have for a time been concealing the real skeleton: and thus the neo-proletarianized fill the streets with their anger, upsetting the bleating and well-meaning pacifist projects of the “indignados”, overturning the tables around which the “indignados” beg for the State (cops included), “aware” politicians, “well-meaning people” (priests included) to take their seats and – all joining in merrily together – elaborate a project for … going ahead: in other words, keeping the zombie on its feet and instilling new life into it.

These recent proletarianized youth have been joined by areas of real proletarians, abandoned to their own resources for some time by the trade unions and smaller corporative unions, who are feeling the direct heat not of the “threat” of a crisis but its actual devastating blows: workers from factories and little workshops, laid off and unemployed, living off redundancy funds or under special administration, with or without a contract, the huge army of immigrant proletarians in the prisons of logistics and “forced labour” in fields and on building sites.

These are the tomato- and fruit-pickers who rebelled in Rosario and Nardò in Italy. And who, in the “indignados” demonstrations, end up by clashing with the forces of law and order. It happened in Rome on 15th October and it happened in Oakland in the United States, where the shapeless magma of “Occupy” has started to englobe and express components that cannot be reduced to simple petit-bourgeois indignation. And we are certainly not talking here about the Black Block or their like, an invention by the media and by the press releases from the political divisions of police stations throughout the world, or the manifestation of an individualist rebellion as an end in itself, devoid of any political prospective, and coinciding in the end with the “objectives” (?) of the indignant little lambs protesting against the banks, speculators and international finance – who knows, perhaps even a bit “demo-pluto-judaic”: and here the ground in common with the so-called “social right” is hardly so far removed (and we shall have to return to this). We are talking about proletarian layers, heterogeneous of course, and of course affected by different and contradictory tensions, but who are starting to react, in a confused, chaotic and episodic manner to the massacre they have been led to. And they are making themselves heard and will continue to make themselves heard more and more.

It is these layers that we communists address. Let us leave the “indignados” to their neurotic and desperate elbowing. The petit bourgeoisie is pre-destined: it can delude itself for decades that it has reached heaven on earth but its destiny is that of ruin. At this point, they will have to decide for themselves: either with the proletariat or with the bourgeoisie. Let us leave them to their fate then, and not concern ourselves too much with them, their gurus and their tired fashions. Our class has nothing in common with them. Our class is of a different nature and has a different role to play. It has a different prospective: that of revolutionizing this mode of production, of overthrowing the State which provides armed defence of it, of instituting its own class dictatorship, as a transition, a bridge towards a classless society, towards socialism. It follows a different practice that must emerge once again from the confused rebelling, inevitable in the early days of confusion: the class war, completely independent of parties and bourgeois or petit-bourgeois unions. And for this reason it has – it must have once again – a different and organized political reference point: the revolutionary Party.

Being indignant is not enough: indeed it offers a prospect of defeat. Starting to fight again, returning blow for blow, organizing in order to defend living and working conditions and – under the guidance of us communists – preparing finally for the decisive attack: this is urgent and must not be abandoned.

International Communist Party

("Il programma comunista", n°6, novembre-dicembre 2011)

Sorry for my ignorance Soupy

Sorry for my ignorance Soupy but who is SEIU? they sound like a shower of assholes

Transnational Movement

Transnational Movement “Encachimbados” Brings Occupy Protests to El Salvador

Arbeiten wrote: Sorry for my

Arbeiten

Sorry for my ignorance Soupy but who is SEIU? they sound like a shower of assholes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Employees_International_Union

Occupy dcers erected the

Occupy dcers erected the skeleton of a structure overnight but cops came en masse to the park today to demolish the structure.

I was arrested along with many others trying to defend the structure. My handcuffs were so tight I lost quite a bit of circulation to my left hand for over an hour. My left hand is still bruised and I am concerned about possible nerve damage.

Soapy wrote: Occupy dcers

Soapy

Occupy dcers erected the skeleton of a structure overnight but cops came en masse to the park today to demolish the structure.

I was arrested along with many others trying to defend the structure. My handcuffs were so tight I lost quite a bit of circulation to my left hand for over an hour. My left hand is still bruised and I am concerned about possible nerve damage.

Crazy. I hope your hand gets better. Are you being charged with anything?

Soapy wrote: Occupy dcers

Soapy

Occupy dcers erected the skeleton of a structure overnight but cops came en masse to the park today to demolish the structure.

I was arrested along with many others trying to defend the structure. My handcuffs were so tight I lost quite a bit of circulation to my left hand for over an hour. My left hand is still bruised and I am concerned about possible nerve damage.

Sorry about the hand.

If it doesn't get better you can always take advantage of the litigious nature of US society and sue the shit out of them. A comrade I know got tens of thousands from the NYPD just recently. The pigs didn't realize camera phones exist and got recorded batoning my friend in the back while he was handcuffed up against a police car during a miniriot a few years back.

It's like the commie lottery: two broken ribs = 50k!

Quote: Sorry about the hand.

Sorry about the hand.

If it doesn't get better you can always take advantage of the litigious nature of US society and sue the shit out of them. A comrade I know got tens of thousands from the NYPD just recently. The pigs didn't realize camera phones exist and got recorded batoning my friend in the back while he was handcuffed up against a police car during a miniriot a few years back.

It's like the commie lottery: two broken ribs = 50k!

There's a crimethinc poster about this actually haha. http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/recentfeatures/prizes.php.

My charge was "crossing a police line". I'm a little concerned about my hand seeing as I do study performance on the piano and trombone. I'm really hoping this weakness I feel in my left hand goes away.

Soapy wrote: Recently I've

Soapy

Recently I've been getting more involved with OccupyDC stuff and I have unearthed some unsettling news. It seems that the SEIU is in many ways playing a larger role in OccupyDC than I feel comfortable with. [...]

Talking to coms in Miami a couple of weeks ago. They say the same thing is happening with Occupy Miami. Basically the SEIU have moved in, recruited anyone who has experience in any sort of direct action as full-timers and set them the project of pushing as much DA as the Occupy movement will take. More gung-ho than the issurectos apparently. Quite bizarre...

Soapy

Today I went to our school's occupy meeting and low and behold who should be there but at least one paid organizer from the SEIU. This SEIU shit needs to stop. How soon will it be before the action committee organizes canvassing for Obama outings?

About 3 - 4 months? Possibly earlier in the new year. Wild guess.

Soapy wrote: I'm a little

Soapy

I'm a little concerned about my hand seeing as I do study performance on the piano and trombone. I'm really hoping this weakness I feel in my left hand goes away.

It will. I've seen hands wrenched so hard with handcuffs that they were turning blue. Eventually the numbness -- or pain -- faded and everything got better. Never heard of anyone getting a permanent injury. Just be patient.

Screenshot of the two most

Screenshot of the two most popular stories on the Washington Post website today:

Brilliant juxtaposition, isn't it?

And you were one of the defenders Soapy? Great, but sorry to hear about the hand. Hope it heals fully, but if not hopefully you can take the Park Police to the cleaners!

Hieronymous wrote: It will.

Hieronymous

It will. I've seen hands wrenched so hard with handcuffs that they were turning blue. Eventually the numbness -- or pain -- faded and everything got better. Never heard of anyone getting a permanent injury. Just be patient.

Surely enough my hand feels much better now.

Tomorrow the SEIU (*vomits a little*) is organizing this "shut down K Street" action to target lobbying groups. Marches will leave from McPherson all day to go to various lobbying groups. Students for Justice in Palestine groups have been planning to form a march to target the hq of AIPAC, however the SEIU front group "our dc" has been pressuring us to call off our march because it will be too "alienating" to Jewish students. We are saying f the SEIU and their liberal privileged bullshit, SJPs will march against AIPAC tomorrow like it or not.

double post

The SEIU really surpassed

The SEIU really surpassed themselves in being liberal assholes today. During the joint occupydc/SEIU "shut down K street" action, SEIU protest marshals attempted to keep protesters from taking the streets. Aside from saying things like "let them get arrested" and claiming that anyone who took the streets was a police infiltrator, SEIU marshals used very real physical violence to try and remove the protesters from the streets.

When OccupyDc attempted to shut down intersections on K street the SEIU refused to join leaving many people to be arrested by the police. One SEIU marshal took it upon himself to begin removing barricades that had been erected in the streets. This man was so confrontational and absolutely livid that the police actually had to intervene and tell the man to leave the area.

All of this aside we did actually shut down K street for quite a bit. What is so impressive is comparing the movement now to what it was like a month ago. One month ago people were very hesitant to march in the streets with most marches sticking to the sidewalks. Now it is taken for granted that when a march begins the streets are ours. It really is beautiful to see.

Fucking SEIU peace police, we

Fucking SEIU peace police, we had those scum out on N17 too.

Soapy

What is so impressive is comparing the movement now to what it was like a month ago. One month ago people were very hesitant to march in the streets with most marches sticking to the sidewalks. Now it is taken for granted that when a march begins the streets are ours. It really is beautiful to see.

I noticed the same tendency recently and, yes, it is beautiful.

Occupy San Francisco was

Occupy San Francisco was raided around 2:00 a.m. today and completely cleared -- with around 70 arrests. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the last fairly large (at least a couple hundred people) encampment that had existed continuously since the end of September.

The pigs rolled out horse and riot cops to protect the site all day.

Hieronymous wrote: Occupy San

Hieronymous

Occupy San Francisco was raided around 2:00 a.m. today and completely cleared -- with around 70 arrests. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the last fairly large (at least a couple hundred people) encampment that had existed continuously since the end of September.

The pigs rolled out horse and riot cops to protect the site all day.

Sad to hear. What are the next steps planned for occupysf, if any?

What have occupations been doing after eviction? I heard that in NY the occupations have become more localized, and things are happening on a smaller scale, does anyone know about this?

Hieronymous wrote: Occupy San

Hieronymous

Occupy San Francisco was raided around 2:00 a.m. today and completely cleared -- with around 70 arrests. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the last fairly large (at least a couple hundred people) encampment that had existed continuously since the end of September.

The pigs rolled out horse and riot cops to protect the site all day.

I believe Occupy Boston is still going and was going at the end of September.

On Occupy London: Quote: Yes.

On Occupy London:

Yes. I was engaged in a debate with some members of the media team some weeks ago. One of them referred me to the following source:

http://piratepad.net/0gNVU4SPj2

They mentioned that the above document highlighted an ongoing document with the Guardian. Moreover, the Guardian was actually providing advice to OLSX as to how it might get its message across to a wide audience. In fact the movement appears to have used the Guardian in order to confirm the appearance of certain speakers at the camp. In other words, the good old Gruniad is acting as a type of go-between as well as accruing extra revenue from the articles contributed by OLSX. I asked several members of the media team whether the issue of CiF contribution had been put before the GA and they replied that it was not. Rather, as the first article above proves, decisions about media partnerships are taken by those operating as media correspondents for the movement; these correspondents appear to be acting alone - a clear problem which emerges from a movement which stresses consensus and unsupervised division of labour over voting and demand building.

Also, I have it on good authority that Naomi Colvin, one of the contributors to the Guardian CiF section was positively effusive about attending an editorial luncheon with the Guardian. Good CV padding for her, not so good for those who wish to distance themselves from the corporate system as a whole.

Voices from the Occupation - Is the Occupy Movement Naive? ...

and

Following meeting with FSA, Occupy London’s Economics Working Group publishes first statement calling for banks and financial institutions to be accountable to society, a clampdown on tax avoidance and the need for independent and effective regulation

Occupy London to host open discussion series entitled ‘Occupy London and the City engage’, organised by Occupy London’s Economics Working Group. First event tomorrow with John Wilkes, Director of Anglo-Suisse Capital, and Polly Toynbee, Guardian

Occupy London meets FSA and engages with the City; First statement of Economics Working Group

:wall: :oops:

Been watching the livestream

Been watching the livestream from the Oakland port shutdown, seems like it's gotten off to a good start:

http://www.ustream.tv/occupyoakland

Riot cops are gearing up in

Riot cops are gearing up in Oakland, looks like they are going to try and break the picket line.

Labor journo Mike Elk says on

Labor journo Mike Elk says on Twitter: "Port blockage is a classic Bolshevik action go into a workplace make workers take risks w/o them consenting" and "Ive intereviewed score of labor leaders & activists up & down west coast - very little support for #d12 port shutdown among rank & file"

Sounds like the Cal Winslow line.

Sounds like a big police

Sounds like a big police mobilization in Long Beach, and arrests are targeting folks with cameras.

Also

Also this:
https://twitter.com/#!/susie_c/status/146254175691485184/photo/1/large

[Couldn't figure out how to post the image here.]

knotwho wrote: Also

knotwho

Also this:
https://twitter.com/#!/susie_c/status/146254175691485184/photo/1/large

[Couldn't figure out how to post the image here.]

Right click image, copy image location, paste between img tags. Quote my post to see what it looks like:

(that's the steps for Firefox anyway)

knotwho wrote: Labor journo

knotwho

Labor journo Mike Elk says on Twitter: "Port blockage is a classic Bolshevik action go into a workplace make workers take risks w/o them consenting" and "Ive intereviewed score of labor leaders & activists up & down west coast - very little support for #d12 port shutdown among rank & file"

Sounds like the Cal Winslow line.

Most of the noise in the media has been about the disruption of work and claims that the blockades are opposed by truckers, longshoremen, etc. Does anyone know to what degree they are in support/opposition?

My impression is that the locals and individuals within the ILWU are in support while the leadership is opposed for legal/political reasons. I don't know about the truckers though.

On workers support, this just

On workers support, this just came out:

An Open Letter from America’s Port Truck Drivers on Occupy the Ports

Today’s demonstrations will impact us. While we cannot officially speak for every worker who shares our occupation, we can use this opportunity to reveal what it’s like to walk a day in our shoes for the 110,000 of us in America whose job it is to be a port truck driver. It may be tempting for media to ask questions about whether we support a shutdown, but there are no easy answers. Instead, we ask you, are you willing to listen and learn why a one-word response is impossible?

A liveblog from the port of

A liveblog from the port of Portland. Lot's of pictures.
http://www.portlandoccupier.org/2011/12/12/liveblog-d12/

It sounds like San Diego and Long Beach were initially successful but got broken up by riot police?

Schwarz wrote: On workers

Schwarz

On workers support, this just came out:

Also this:

If ILWU members don’t honor the community picket lines, it will cause an irreparable breach with the community. If the ILWU can’t support the community, why should the community support the ILWU in 2014 contract negotiations or when the new grain agreement is up next year? Who knows what the employer has up their sleeve when they demanded only a one-year contract.

http://www.westcoastportshutdown.org/content/interview-ilwu-members-about-d12

Here in NM, the unOccupy folks are going to occupy a WalMart distribution center. Some folks (including someone who used to drive trucks in and out of there) were talking about parking 4x4s at the entrance. Other people don't want to do that.

The open letter was extremely

The open letter was extremely informative. I thought truckers might not have it well but damn. Everywhere you go somebody has shockingly fucked up stories about their jobs. And I mean everywhere.

knotwho

http://www.westcoastportshutdown.org/content/interview-ilwu-members-about-d12

Here in NM, the unOccupy folks are going to occupy a WalMart distribution center. Some folks (including someone who used to drive trucks in and out of there) were talking about parking 4x4s at the entrance. Other people don't want to do that.

I like that idea. Closing down Wal-mart will have a huge effect, in my old town that was where everyone went. People even had tailgate party's in the damn parking lot. Hope they don't just disrupt it but try and educate people who come up there.

There's mixed responses

There's mixed responses coming out of ILWU it seems.

Maritime unions oppose Occupy Seattle 'port shutdown'

"Support is one thing, organization from outside groups attempting to co-opt our struggle in order to advance a broader agenda is quite another and one that is destructive to our democratic process," wrote Robert McEllrath, the president of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU).

Locally, King County Labor Council Executive Secretary David Freiboth said ILWU Local 19 asked the labor council not to participate at the Port of Seattle.

"We're not supporting the shutdown, and we're not participating in it," he said.

The reports coming out of the

The reports coming out of the mainstream media seem pretty subdued.

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — Hundreds of Wall Street protesters blocked gates at some of the West Coast's busiest ports on Monday, causing the partial shutdown of several in a day of demonstrations they hope will cut into the profits of the corporations that run the docks.
The closures affected some of the terminals at the ports in Oakland, Calif., Portland, Ore., and Longview, Wash., though it was not immediately clear how much the shutdowns would affect operations and what the economic loss would be.

However, on twitter I got several responses, including from Boots Riley in occupy oakland:

in oakland, no1is loading or unloading trucks or ships. In portland, there is no work at all. So its a false claim by the port

So I'm not really sure what the situation is. It seems to me like the media response has been similar to the General Strike - things were incredibly ambiguous until late night Nov. 2nd, when they announced that the port had been closed.

ILWU spotted at Seattle #D12

ILWU spotted at Seattle #D12 rally.

Some ILWU rank and file

Some ILWU rank and file brought the blockades pizza in Portland today, and it seems like the response to outreach at the hiring hall prior to the day was largely positive... according to rumor the longshoremen were largely "debating to join the picket or just not cross it" rather than to cross or not, but I can't really substantiate that. ILWU union leadership is opposed strongly and has been making no bones about it in the media. The reaction of truckers seemed mixed. Lots of supportive honks by drivers passing by the blockade headed to other (non-port) destinations, but also some quite angry truckers trying to get through. There were plenty of angry discussions about weather the truckers should be let through since they lose their pay and still have to pay for gas etc if they are blocked...we'll see how the evening goes.

I think this article is spot on,but feel like it might bring some disagreement around these parts : http://www.bayofrage.com/from-the-bay/blockading-the-port-is-only-the-first-of-many-last-resorts/

Japan action in solidarity

Japan action in solidarity with Occupy the Ports!

(figured out how to post images. thx)

This is a pretty damn good

This is a pretty damn good account from an independent journalist who was arrested in New York City on 12/12 at the solidarity with the port shutdown action:

My 37 hours with the NYPD

Especially his conclusion, considering the fairly liberal (definitely not anarchist) website at which it was posted:

One final thought after these illuminating 37 hours. The story of Occupy Wall Street is impossible to tell removed from the story of the prison industrial complex. What makes OWS necessary is a story of a failing educational system. It’s a story of privatized prisons. It’s a story of predatory lenders, lack of affordable housing, and a complete absence of jobs in the most marginalized communities, who are often black or brown. It’s a story of a so-called drug war meant to imprison black and brown youth as a means of generating profits for the 1 percent. The NYPD have shown they will arrest accredited and unaccredited journalists alike. Official credentials don’t work as a protection.

That said, journalists – like activists – shouldn’t be afraid of going to jail. If and when we do get arrested it is not an inconvenience, or something that we shouldn’t be subjected to. It’s a chance to refocus our outrage, a chance to tell the most important stories, a chance to bear witness to the horrors of our criminal justice system. I don’t think the NYPD will ever offer me official credentials, but I won’t be asking them for any. Our right to observe and document police misconduct is not contingent on the approval of the authorities. And if the police think that intimidation is going to stop this movement, they should know better by now.

Over here in New Zealand,

Over here in New Zealand, Occupy Wellington has split in two. Basically the vast majority have left the campsite permanently due to a range of issues including abusive/harrassing/threatening behaviours from a number of fulltime campers, terrible weather (including gale force winds that broke several tents) and some other stuff.

The majority is now looking for a building to use as a base for further political action. The main thing that they are involved in at the moment is supporting ~100 workers who have been locked out for 7 weeks now from their jobs as meatworkers at a plant a couple of hours north of Wellington - going up to support the picket lines, fundraising etc.

Here's the open letter from the majority:

Occupy Wellington Looks to the Future: “It’s not just about the tents”
Dear Friends,

Thank you so much for the enormous support you’ve shown since Occupy Wellington began on October 15th.

After two months of camping in Civic Square, we’re extremely excited to announce Occupy Wellington’s vision for the next phase of the movement.

The Civic Square camp has provided an incredibly successful vehicle to open public discussion about economic inequality. But the global Occupy movement is about much more than a collection of tents. The next phase is about moving forward to more effectively engage with the enormous support shown in the wider community from a more sustainable indoor base.

The camp was never intended to be permanent. Because so many supporters of Occupy Wellington have jobs and other commitments, we’re focusing on activities that allow the participation of people who are not able to physically camp.

Although Occupy Wellington is no longer based in Civic Square, clearly some individuals may continue to exercise their right to remain there.

Recognising the limitations of a temporary camp has led to in-depth discussion about the best way of moving forward. Similar discussions are taking place in Occupy sites all over the world. Occupy supporters in New Zealand are participating in international web-based conferences, to collaboratively develop a collective global vision for the future of the Occupy movement, dubbed “Occupy 2.0”.

This means some big changes locally, in the transition to the next phase.

Plans are underway to start a ‘Bank of Ideas’ in central Wellington, modeled on the Occupy London initiative of the same name. The Bank of Ideas will promote the non-monetary trade of ideas to help solve pressing economic, social and environmental problems, and encourage transformative change towards a system that works for all.

The Bank of Ideas will provide a space for the collaboration of like-minded individuals and groups in Wellington working on different facets of the same basic problem, including environmental groups, unions and other workers’ rights groups, activist networks, community groups, academics, professionals, students and faith-based groups.

The space will be used to continue the ‘Free University’ community-based education initiative, community workshops and events, and to host public General Assemblies.

As we transition into this next phase, we will need a great deal of support. It has become increasingly apparent that Wellington contains a huge number of people who support the global Occupy movement but have not seen a clear way of contributing locally.

Our vision for the next phase is to restructure the movement to enable the participation of all individuals and organisations that share a basic desire for a more equitable and sustainable future.

We want all of these groups and individuals to benefit from being linked in to a global movement simultaneously taking place in 3,000 cities, utilizing the media appeal and public awareness and excitement associated with the Occupy movement to further their diverse campaigns for positive change.

The first thing we need to secure is a suitable indoor space – we’re exploring some promising options, but we need as much help as we can get. If you have any ideas for possible spaces, or contacts for other people who might have relevant information, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.

The minority left at the campsite are pretty much all utter fuckwits or fuckwit enablers, and I (and others) are recommending that noone has anything to do with them from now on.

Asher wrote: including

Asher

including abusive/harrassing/threatening behaviours from a number of fulltime campers,

That's interesting. Where I live this has been somewhat of a problem as well. The fulltime campers have seen themselves as the "real" occupier and therefore more deserving of respect and having more say than people who could only drop by from time to time. This has changed somewhat after the camp was evicted and GAs now taking place indoors (not squats, but a TU building).

http://www.finimondo.org/node

http://www.finimondo.org/node/585

We Are the 1%

We’ve seen you. We’ve heard you. Now you are everywhere. We know who you are. You are the 99% who protest against against the excesses of capitalism and the abuses of the State. You are the 99% who demand electoral reforms, social alternatives, economic aid, political measures. You are the 99% distressed at losing your future, at no longer being able to live as you have up to now: a job, a wage, a loan for your house, a pension. Live and let live, as a minimum. A career, as a maximum. This is what you ask. You don’t want to pay for the “crisis,” you want everything to return to what it was. Let no one turn off the screens that have day after day drained your life of meaning and emotion, condemning it to the sadness of survival. And you ask all this of the governments and the banks. Because democracy is: rulers who are not interested in power but in the common good, bankers that are not interested in profit but in the happiness of the population. Like in fairy tales, like in films.
Waiting for a happy ending that is slow to arrive, you don’t tolerate anyone not sharing your delusional resignation. From Madrid to Athens, from Rome to Portland, you are quick to stop, denounce and beat those of the enraged who don’t see the guarantees of freedom in the institutions, but rather the cause of misery and oppression. You appreciate revenge only in cinema fiction, the mask removed you prefer submission. Facing a society as hateful as it is rotten you fight in favor of a civil, measured, educated protest. A protest that always remains at your height: on its knees.
Now we know who that 1% is that you hate so much. With your lines, with your service orders, with your snitching, you have made everyone understand who you real enemy is. It certainly isn’t the ruling class, to whom you address yourselves with respect. It is us. Us, who have no state to defend or improve. Us, who have no market to protect or exploit. Us, who don’t want to exercise or submit to any authority. Us, for whom life is not reducible to a time card to punch or checking account to protect. Us, for whom the crisis is not born with recent stock market speculations, or with the incapacity of those who sit in parliament today, but with living in this social order itself in all its aspects. Us, for whom all days are precarious in this world we did not want, in which we never recognize ourselves, and which smothers us.
We don’t want to have anything to do with your 99%. With your demand for a moderate capitalism and an upright state. With your political pace that reduces power and privilege to the dimensions of a credit card. With your urban camping as nostalgic boyscouts. With your identification of an opponent, the origin of “injustice,” more and more vague, immaterial and far out of our reach. With your arms mor and more inviting in the face of politicians, industrialists and guardians of order, and more and more vigorous against rebels. With your actions that get weaker and weaker and have become only a tepid interval in the status quo. No, we don’t want your reforms, your collaborationism, your alienated labor, your leftist demands heated over so many times as to be nauseating.
We know what the real causes of the suffering we endure: the sect of power, the cult of money, but also the obedience that they demand and obtain. These causes are perpetuated in the daily lives of human beings by the actions, gestures, relationships that interweave within a society in which we feel that we are strangers everywhere. And these causes – that have to be refused, deserted, demolished – have found shelter in your movement. We have never felt at home in 99% of our modern life, spent lining up to beg for crumbs, and yet you insist on defending 99% of the problem. We will take our possibilities elsewhere. Through the hopes, dreams and actions that have earned your comdemnation. You, you still continue you passage through the ocean of universal indignation. You raise your sails passing the ropes to bureaucrats and police. You share space and air with the scum who have made life on this planet so unlivable. You head straight towards a new tomorrow with the hold still full of yesterday’s shit. We won’t climb onto your ship, in case we would never get off of it. We will stay on our rafts which you so despise, because they are so small and light.
But watch out. A vessel that travels with our enemies on board is an opportunity to fine to miss. Do you laugh? Do you have no fear of us because we don’t have the strength board you? You’ve misunderstood us. We don’t want your gold, we don’t at all want to conquer you, We want to make you sink with all your death cargo. To succeed at this, there is no need for a majestic fleet, one fire-ship is enough. Small and light.

Khawaga wrote: Asher

Khawaga

Asher

including abusive/harrassing/threatening behaviours from a number of fulltime campers,

That's interesting. Where I live this has been somewhat of a problem as well. The fulltime campers have seen themselves as the "real" occupier and therefore more deserving of respect and having more say than people who could only drop by from time to time. This has changed somewhat after the camp was evicted and GAs now taking place indoors (not squats, but a TU building).

There were definitely elements of that, but some are just abusive arseholes regardless - one of the main people in the faction that is still camping is a prominent member of the 'Father's Rights' group in New Zealand, and his ex-wife and child have a protection order out against him (meaning that he isn't allowed near them), which are generally only granted after violence/abuse AFAIK.

Probably worth resurrecting

Probably worth resurrecting this thread.

There's a bunch of stuff going on in Oakland, hopefully folks from there will post.

Here in Minneapolis, they took over a building for a day before retreating

Recently, Malcolm Harris got

Recently, Malcolm Harris got his Twitter subpoened...
http://mashable.com/2012/02/01/occupy-protestors-twitter-subpoenaed/

Occupy Buffalo got evicted
http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Occupy-Buffalo-removed-from-Niagara-Square-2971783.php

Some anarchists took over an

Some anarchists took over an abadoned CVS building in Carrboro before gettin ejected it seems
http://carrborocommune.wordpress.com/

Some thoughts... Obviously

Some thoughts...

Obviously 'Occupy' represents a broad cross-section of views. These few thoughts are not meant to belittle the movement as a whole, just a few elements and trends within it. I have never been to an Occupy protest. All my knowledge of the protests is based on accounts from friends and mainstream media sources. I think the fact that there is a new, growing and visible opposition to austerity [?] (especially one that has established itself outside the domain of established political parties and institutions) is encouraging, and I would certainly be there if I could be, but there's no movement that's beyond criticism:

1. A Growing Obsession With Demands - The New York Times quotes one occupier; ‘We absolutely need demands… power concedes nothing without a demand.’ The Occupy Seattle website has a number of policy polls for demands ranging from, ‘universal education’ to ‘end corporate personhood.’ Astonishingly, many of the NYC protesters see fit to work towards a set of ultimatums for the politicians in Washington to consider. With unparalleled political naivety, some think it best for their representatives in Congress to take final responsibility for ‘fixing’ capitalism. It seems many protesters cannot shake their attachment to existing power structures.

2. The American Dream and ‘Nice’ Capitalism:- Picture it now: The mind-numbing, six-hour general assembly of earnest campers wrangling over the pros and cons of nationalising the Federal Reserve. Searching for a consensus to draw a plan for a nice new capitalism with a human face, one regulated more effectively by the state. Underlying much (not all) of the Occupy Movement is a strange sort of American Dream narrative and the idealised notion of a pure, moral and non-parastitic capitalism. The idea that a once-fair and equitable meritocracy has been corrupted by a tiny few who’ve taken things too far. Still wedded to the basic tenets of capitalism and representative liberal democracy, many of the Occupy protesters aren’t demanding anything that’s particularly radical. ‘NOT AGAINST CAPITALISM, JUST AGAINST GREED!’ – as if the whole set-up didn’t thrive on an avaricious drive to make a profit at any cost, masked by useful euphemisms like ‘ambition’ and ‘entrepreneurial spirit’. In a Huffington Post article entitled, 'The Occupy Movement: Not Anti-Capitalist but Anti-Fundamentalist' Richard Stacy writes, 'There is not a problem with capitalism, per se, and very few protesters are claiming as such. The problem is the variant of capitalism we have been pursuing for most of the last 30 years.' Oh yes. How can we forget those rosy days of Wilson and Callaghan, when the Labour Party actually meant the party of labour and actually represented the interests of the working masses (or is that the 99%)? Do people actually have such a misplaced fetish for the era of big government? Do they think back to those days as if the liberal West was the land of milk, honey and stable class relations?

This liberal-welfarist-social-democratic sycophancy is based on a total misreading of capitalism's historical evolution. At the risk of talking some Marxist, economic-determinist dialectical bilge, the Keynesian post-war consensus was a political-economic model that suited one particular stage of capitalist development. New conditions (not least a long period of stagnation and the beginning of the process of globalisation) gave rise to the neo-liberal, monetarist model, which let unregulated capital move across borders freely and expanded credit to stimulate a stifled demand. All these systems are just different variations on the same putrid and debased theme, just stages in the evolution of a morally bankrupt system that has an unfortunate self-adjusting mechanism which has guaranteed its survival through countless crises thus far.

3. A Shit Slogan - We Are The 99%. All our grievances and frustrations watered down into a vacuous, simplistic, twitter-friendly slogan. Just as vapid as ‘Yes We Can’ or ‘Keep Hope Alive’. Is this an attempt to quantify the class struggle? A handy little formula to explain inequality and income disparities? Unfortunately, our problems have surpassed, ‘the 1% versus everybody else’. Power is more entrenched, authority is more diffuse and domination permeates every level of society.

During France's Red Terror, Marat drew up an exact list of around 36,000 names (?), claiming that all the problems of the French people could be solved virtually overnight if the 36,000 were guillotined. This fairly ridiculous claim at least would have made more sense in his era of autocratic leviathans and the absolute omnipotency of Church and State. At least then there was a definite, discernable line of authority heading steeply down a feudal pyramid, but I'm not so sure that this is the case now (or even if it was then). It's not so black and white between the powerful and powerless; the monolithic institution/elite vs. the rest of the world. Power is a far more complex, all-pervasive, self-replicating force that manages to worm its way into all our relationships and practical endeavors - our job is to grasp this and minimise its hold over us. If I'm wrong then fuck it, lets just hang the 1% and be done with it, and enjoy the rest of our lives without these parasites.

4. What are they Occupying? Looks to me like they’re sleeping in a park or on a bit of concrete outside a church. A protest can either be a media-spectacle that ‘raises awareness’, or it can actually pose a real threat to the State if it challenges it directly. Are these occupations about establishing ‘Temporary Autonomous Zones’ or ‘Spaces of Hope’, self-governing and independent of traditional power structures and the State, that could potentially lead to a situation of ‘dual power’ that negates the State’s hegemony, or begins to construct ‘the new in the shell of the old’? Or are they oppositional attempts to disrupt (or just question) the status quo without establishing a positive alternative? Either would be fine, but I'm not sure that Occupy is doing either, or if they are, their attempts seem a little watered-down. In fairness, Occupy Oakland has made the most progress towards actually turning the occupation into a real Event, and this is partly due to the wildly disproportionate repression the (initially) peaceful encampment received from the police.

The practical/organisational forms of the occupy movement (radically democratic, horizontally-structured) seem to be more radical than the content (reformist 'demands', social-democratic leanings). The non-hierarchical, organic structure is laudable, with general assemblies as the sole decision-making bodies, but to be effective, the occupations need to become more than just political campsites.

Apologies for not being completely overjoyed at the prospect of new generation of activists demanding (in the main) a return to some sort of pre-cuts-pre-monetarist-pre-Thatcher-pre-Reaganite-pre-deregulation-capitalism, and imagining a kind of socially responsible, welfarist free market to replace the rapacious capitalism of late. Perhaps I’m jealous not being in the place where it’s all apparently ‘happening’, but my sympathy is stretched with a movement that has consistently tried to appeal to both ‘left and right, liberal and conservative’. Forget your politics, YOU ARE THE 99%!!!!!!!!!!11!! #OWS

K.P.B.S.F.S

http://kpbsfs.wordpress.com

jonnyboss wrote: 1. A

jonnyboss

1. A Growing Obsession With Demands - The New York Times quotes one occupier; ‘We absolutely need demands… power concedes nothing without a demand.’ The Occupy Seattle website has a number of policy polls for demands ranging from, ‘universal education’ to ‘end corporate personhood.’ Astonishingly, many of the NYC protesters see fit to work towards a set of ultimatums for the politicians in Washington to consider. With unparalleled political naivety, some think it best for their representatives in Congress to take final responsibility for ‘fixing’ capitalism. It seems many protesters cannot shake their attachment to existing power structures.

I am sympathetic to the idea of having no demands and simply overturning capitalism with no transitional program or anything like that. However, I don't really see all demands as bad in and of themselves. Seems to me some of the most radical and intense manifestations of class struggle in history (at least what I'm familiar with) have had demands. The movement for an 8 hour day in America, for instance (initially scorned by anarchists), lead to massive strikes and confrontations with capital. What is crucial is that people rely on direct action, rather than representation or bureaucracy, to achieve their demands.

If a mass, direct action-oriented movement for, say, universal healthcare, a higher minimum wage, or a less Draconian immigration regime arose, I would support it fully. Indeed, I would probably feel closer to them than some of the naval-gazing, nihilistic, subcultural types who demand the movement put forth no demands! (Not that everyone who is against having demands is this type of person, but I think many are.)

http://www.truthdig.com/repor

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_cancer_of_occupy_20120206/

Classic strawman from a classic liberal.

occupy norwich got a letter

occupy norwich got a letter from the council last week urging them to take down their camp by last friday. i think they've been cooperating and negotiating with the council and have agreed to close by the 11th. i've not been down there since it started but there appears to be no sign of resistance on their facebook group, instead they are discussing whether consumers who buy products of exploited workers are exploiting the workers... *groan*...

Quote: I am sympathetic to

I am sympathetic to the idea of having no demands and simply overturning capitalism with no transitional program or anything like that. However, I don't really see all demands as bad in and of themselves. Seems to me some of the most radical and intense manifestations of class struggle in history (at least what I'm familiar with) have had demands. The movement for an 8 hour day in America, for instance (initially scorned by anarchists), lead to massive strikes and confrontations with capital. What is crucial is that people rely on direct action, rather than representation or bureaucracy, to achieve their demands.

If a mass, direct action-oriented movement for, say, universal healthcare, a higher minimum wage, or a less Draconian immigration regime arose, I would support it fully. Indeed, I would probably feel closer to them than some of the naval-gazing, nihilistic, subcultural types who demand the movement put forth no demands! (Not that everyone who is against having demands is this type of person, but I think many are.

True, true. And there's been plenty of occupations with demands where they've been met almost immediately. (Insert story of a university occupation demanding scholarships for Palestinian students, where senior management caved in 24 hours.) Not quite the 8 hour rest, 8 hour leisure, 8 hour work struggle, I know, but a fine example of a successful struggle with demands that were hard won. Of course, nowadays, the watchword has moved from the 8 hour day, to the 'abolition of alienated labour'. It's not a quarrel with demands per se, but I doubt a load of people camping outside a Cathedral is going to make Goldman Sachs have a change of heart.

Havaan

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_cancer_of_occupy_20120206/

Classic strawman from a classic liberal.

Yeah that's making the rounds quick on Facebook. Hilarious article. Kinda bizarre actually.

Here's a response from a (sometime?/former?) libcom poster: http://cuntrastamu.com/2012/02/07/to-be-fair-he-is-a-journalist-a-short-response-to-chris-hedges-on-black-bloq/

Does anyone maybe have good

Does anyone maybe have good text about Occupy Oakland? I'm writing someting for some mainstream papers, so I'd like to read as much as I can...

From Occupy

From Occupy Minneapolis

From Occupy Homes MN: An Important Update on Bobby Hull's Fight Against Foreclosure
February 17th was supposed to be the last day homeowner and Marine Bobby Hull's would live in his childhood home. Thanks to hundreds of phone calls, emails, marches and civil disobedience as part of a campaign waged by Occupy Homes MN, the bank has called Bobby and have stated their intent to negotiate a modification of his loan that would keep he and his family in their home! Instead, of moving out on this day, we'll pitch a tent and a stage in front of Bobby's home where friends, neighbors and hundreds of supporters will celebrate that the bank has called Bobby to attempt to negotiate, and the eviction has been halted for now.

This is amazing news, but the fight is not over until they sign on to a final agreement so we need all of your support now more than ever to pressure the bank to ensure Bobby gets to stay in his home.

More from Chris Hedges (bleh): http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/occupy_draws_strength_from_the_powerless_20120213/

Occupy Wall Street took back

Occupy Wall Street took back Liberty Plaza on St. Patrick's Day. 73 people arrested.
http://youtu.be/6tIJwUp9A5I

At the Occupy the Midwest conference in St. Louis, police battered people around, too.
https://antistatestl.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/a-personal-account-of-the-eviction-of-occupy-the-midwest/

Juan Conatz wrote: Occupy

Juan Conatz

Occupy Wall Street took back Liberty Plaza on St. Patrick's Day. 73 people arrested.
http://youtu.be/6tIJwUp9A5I

I made the tail end of this.

I'm sort of ambivalent about the tactic of trying to take Zucotti back. On the one hand, it was genuinely nice to re-encounter that sense of place that the park offered. Just to have several hundred people milling around and talking political shit again was a nice reminder of some of the brighter moments seen last fall.

On the other hand, the area is (and was) so highly policed that it seems incredible that that same space can be 'taken back' on a semi-permanent basis. As a mere symbol of 'militancy' to be recaptured it could use up energy that could better be applied towards organizing efforts around the city. After the cops read the riot act dozens of folks chose to get arrested by linking arms and sitting in the middle of the park. This type of civil disobedience isn't really my cup of tea and seems to bog folks down in prison support shit for a long time for very little material or political benefit.

Maybe marginally more effective was the snake march that left the park soon thereafter. Marchers kept taking the street heading uptown, snarling up traffic on Broadway and Canal. The reaction of weekend revelers and local workers was either completely positive or one of complete surprise at the spectacle. We even got a few drunken St. Patty's day revelers to join in the fun! :D

One very interesting and welcome development on Saturday was the attitude towards the cops. Whereas in the fall any anti-police sentiment was met with a pacifist, 'they-are-99%-too' reaction, hatred for the cops seemed pretty universal the other day. Lots of screaming at them and calling them pigs to their faces and all.

Perhaps people have learned lessons from the evictions and violent suppression of the last few months? Or it could be that the 300 or 400 people that showed up and remained that night were of the more militant sector of occupy. There is a lot more coming up this spring so I guess time will tell.

Hi! I was considering moving

Hi!

I was considering moving to NYC at least temporarily to participate in OWS. Occupying full-time seemed a lot more feasible last fall when there was a camp that provided meals. Do you know if there is a safe place for occupiers to sleep now and is any free food provided?

Thanks!

Quote: Occupy Wall Street

Occupy Wall Street protesters chained open emergency exit gates in eight subway stations Wednesday morning, allowing riders to enter for free, sources said.

Fliers posted in the subway stations also called for “general strike” on May 1.

“No housework. No shopping. No banking. No school. No work,” one flier declared, using the symbols of the numbered lines to make a list...

Occupy Wall Street gives straphangers free ride on NYC subway

A clever action in

A clever action in Minneapolis

Meanwhile, in San Francisco

Occupy activists take over S.F. buildings as 'commune'
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2012%2F04%2F01%2FBAP11NTE3K.DTL

Quote: March 25,

March 25, 2012
Reportback: The 99%Spring Training for Trainers and the Plot to Coopt #Occupy

http://tech.nycga.net/2012/03/25/reportback-the-99spring-training-for-trainers-and-the-plot-to-coopt-occupy/

Those "FOR SQUAT" signs are

Those "FOR SQUAT" signs are really clever. Anyone know how to get hold of the graphic (not that it should be difficult to make). Lots of abandoned and boarded up stores and houses where I am from (and we want to push occupy to actually occupy something... this could be a small push).

http://www.counterpunch.org/2

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/04/05/counter-insurgency-as-insurgency/

'Reoccupy Minneapolis'

'Reoccupy Minneapolis' started today. I didn't make it down, but from others this is what I heard.

They tried to occupy two different parks, which I'm assuming was a result of the consensus process. "I want Park A. No! we want Park B! Yo dudes, chill, let's do both Park A and Park B." I'm not sure how many people were involved in both altogether so I won't speculate on numbers. Huge police presence, which is a big difference from the Fall. I imagine the West Coast has scared the police all over the country and they do not want the occupations to restart again. Already, we have learned for May 1 all days off for police have been cancelled. So basically every cop in the city will be on-duty.

There are rules for staying over night on both parks...basically you can't camp there, which Occupy Minneapolis was going to attempt to do. At some point they did a march to gather everyone from one park to the other and police with horses pushed them back and aggressively arrested 9-15 people. Folks I was with just head down to the county to do jail solidarity/vigil stuff.

AsIthink I've mentioned

AsIthink I've mentioned before, most of what Occupy Minneapolis does is foreclosure defense work. So they basically occupy people's homes that are in the foreclosure process in an attempt to force the bank to renegotiate the loan so the people can keep their home.

They've done a few so far, got a couple wins on their belt.

Today, the police raided the home they're occupying now. This is the third raid in a week and a half I believe. The other two, the police were pretty much forced back when people rushed to the scene and confronted them. Today though, they 'secured' the home. 1 person, a solid comrade, btw, managed to lockdown to a barrel filled with concrete and delayed the process for almost 2 hours. He was arrested and held on $80,000 bail!!!

I'm hearing that they just lowered it to $50.00 and he'll be out shortly though. I imagine there was some conflict in the city government about that bail amount and the impeding bad press. There's a press conference tomorrow from Occupy Homes MN.

The crowd that showed up and tried to prevent the eviction then marched down to one of the police precincts until they were ordered to disperse. Not absolutely sure, but that might be the first dispersal order Occupy has had to deal with here in a while.

The City of Minneapolis put out this weird statement after the eviction.

City secures foreclosed home, tells Freddie Mac to take responsibility for its property

Minneapolis Police today secured a foreclosed home at 4044 Cedar Ave. S. by boarding it up. At the direction of Mayor Rybak, Minneapolis City Attorney Susan Segal reached out to Freddie Mac to say that the City is not in the foreclosure business. “The City plays a limited role to protect public safety. The property is the responsibility of its owner,” said Segal. In this case, the City has fulfilled its legal obligation to secure the property.

Some pix from today.

Dear fellow neighbors,

My name is Sasha, and I live on the 4000 block of Cedar Ave, where Occupy Homes MN protesters have been trying to prevent the eviction of the Cruz family from their home. I, like many of you, have concerns about this situation.

Mayor Rybak, the city attorney, and the chief of Minneapolis police have all declared that the city is not in the business of providing free private security for banking institutions. Their actions, however, speak louder than their words: there have been a total of five raids on the Cruz house in the last two weeks. Last Friday, I awoke to the sound of chainsaws and jackhammers as sheriff’s deputies hacked away at the concrete barriers that protesters had erected.

This same noisy scene was repeated on Tuesday afternoon. My neighbor was arrested because she walked outside of her house holding an Occupy Homes MN sign. The following evening, the entire block was shut down and there were at least 40 police officers present. One of these officers shoved me and threatened me with arrest for simply watching the goings on from my front yard.

Weeks before these raids occurred, two "occupiers," Dan and Chris, knocked on my door to introduce themselves. They met with me and talked about what to expect at the Cruz house. They invited all of us on the block to their meetings to share our thoughts and voice our concerns. In contrast, the city never asked the neighbors what we wanted, nor did they invite me to offer advice or feedback on events in my neighborhood. Instead, they provided free private security for banking institutions.

As a local resident and not as a member of any group or organization, I am requesting that the city cease providing this type of security. What would happen if they did? The occupiers would be inside, quiet as mice - just like they were for four weeks before the police marched in. Freddie Mac would then have incentive to work with the Cruz family on modifying their loan. The occupiers would call it a day and go to sleep in their own homes. With the Cruz family back home, we'd have our stable community once more.

I urge the city of Minneapolis to serve the interests of its citizens - and not those of giant banking institutions. A first step would be considering the impact of the foreclosure crisis on our communities. This is what the occupiers have done, albeit in a somewhat spectacular fashion. By working with and advocating for homeowners facing foreclosure, they’ve done more to protect and serve their neighbors than any of our elected officials.

This happened last week:
14 arrested during foreclosure protest in Mpls