Standoff in Nevada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

A 20-year legal dispute between the United States Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and cattle rancher Cliven Bundy in southeastern Nevada over unpaid grazing fees eventually developed into an armed confrontation between protesters and law enforcement. The dispute began in 1993 when Bundy refused to pay bills to the US government for his cattle grazing on federal lands near Bunkerville, Nevada. Bundy was eventually prohibited from grazing his cattle on the land by an order issued in 1998 by the United States District Court for the District of Nevada in United States v. Bundy. After years of repeated violations of multiple court orders, in early April 2014 the BLM began rounding up Bundy's cattle that were trespassing on the land, confronted by protesters and armed supporters of Bundy.

In media interviews, Bundy used the language of the sovereign citizen movement as a rallying call, beckoning support from members of the Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia and the Praetorian Guard.[25] Armed individuals and private militia members from across the United States joined peaceful protesters against the trespass cattle roundup in what has become known punningly as the Battle of Bunkerville.[3][26] BLM enforcement agents were dispatched in response to what was seen as threatening statements by Bundy, such as calling the events a "range war".[27] There was no armed battle and no shots were fired in the incident.

With many roads closed to insure safety during the cattle removal, designated First Amendment areas where protesters could safely congregate or exercise their First Amendment right to peaceably assemble were marked with signs and orange plastic fences adjacent to the road.[28][29] On April 8, 2014, Nevada Governor, Brian Sandoval issued a statement, calling for the removal of the First Amendment restrictions he described as offensive.[30] After stating that peaceful protests had crossed into illegal activity, the federal agencies allowed protesters to go anywhere on the public land as long as they were peaceful.[31]

On April 10, protesters crowded around a BLM convoy.[3] Bundy's sister was pushed to the ground by law enforcement.[32] A protester drove an ATV into a bureau truck driven by a civilian driver.[3] Officers protecting the truck driver had Tasers and police dogs.[3] Officers say a police dog was kicked.[3] The officers then tasered the ATV driver.[3] The protesters angrily confronted the rangers.[3]

On the morning of April 12, a heavily armed crowd rallied under a banner that read "Liberty Freedom For God We Stand".[25] Camouflaged militiamen stood at attention, communicating with earpieces. Most had signs, many of which chided "government thugs".[25] Addressing the protestors, Bundy said "We definitely don't recognize [the BLM director's] jurisdiction or authority, his arresting power or policing power in any way," and "We're about ready to take the country over with force!".[25] After the BLM announced a suspension of the roundup, Bundy suggested blocking a highway.[25] Armed protesters blocked a portion of Interstate 15 for over two hours causing traffic backups for three miles in both directions.[33] Protesters also converged at the mouth of Gold Butte, the preserve where the cattle were corralled, where a tense, hour-long standoff ensued.[25] Militiamen took position on a highway overpass, offering cover as horse-mounted wranglers led protesters to face off against heavily equipped BLM rangers and snipers.[25] After the standoff ended the militia promoted the use of human shields; former Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack, who was with the protesters, said that they were "strategizing to put all the women up at the front. If they're gonna start shooting, it's going to be women that are gonna be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."[34]

bloody hell :/

to be honest I'm kinda

to be honest I'm kinda surprised this hasn't garnered more attention - not here specifically but in general, most of my American friends don't seem to know or care about it.

in some ways it's a case study of the American far-right, with a clear thread running between the militia movement, the "sovereign citizen" style patriotic-conspiracy theorist scene, Tea Party activists, the fringes of the Republican party (including elected officials), and media like Fox News and certain radio hosts, all of whom have to varying degrees lent their backing to Bundy and the protestors (armed and/or unarmed).

comparisons to the 90s (specifically to things like Ruby Ridge and Waco in this case) seem tempting in some ways...

This article from CNN isn't great but does detail some of the more widely covered incidents of violence from the organised far-right, starting with a shooting at a Jewish community centre in Kansas. It also references a 2009 report (pdf) from the Department for Homeland Security.

What to make of all this?

http://www.splcenter.org/blog

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/16/bundy-supporters-reportedly-harass-conservationists-blm-workers-over-nevada-range-war/

Fairly interesting discussion

Fairly interesting discussion of the American far right including Bundy here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/16/was_kansas_shooting_avoidable_white_supremacist

jonthom wrote: What to make

jonthom

What to make of all this?

I think you nailed it here;

jonthom

in some ways it's a case study of the American far-right, with a clear thread running between the militia movement, the "sovereign citizen" style patriotic-conspiracy theorist scene, Tea Party activists, the fringes of the Republican party (including elected officials), and media like Fox News and certain radio hosts,

The far right is posed to be the pawns of the fringe GOP. That fringe GOP is going to experience the same frustrations with the Oath Keepers/Sovereign Citizens that the mainstream GOP experiences with the fringe. Basically, the fringe GOP will need to accommodate Oath Keeper bat-shittedness with their own and not all bat-shittedness mixes together homogeneously.

One thing I'd caution the class-struggle @'s against is taking the rise of this kooky shit as an impediment to building a working-class movement. The IWW operated at its height during a time of emboldened right-wing militia types who were then, the pawns of both the elite with direct economic interest in quashing certain struggles as well as a mainstream right.

http://irehr.org/issue-areas/

http://irehr.org/issue-areas/tea-party-nationalism/tea-party-news-and-analysis/item/553-bundy-standoff

A second lesson from the conflict is the double standard employed by the federal government in enforcing its grazing laws. The treatment of Bundy stands in stark contrast to the human rights violations committed against Carrie and Mary Dann (Mary Dann passed in 2005) by the U.S. government. The Dann sisters, members of the Western Shoshone tribe, grazed cattle on their ancestral lands in what is now central Nevada. In contrast to the Bundy incident, where the federal government had clear jurisdiction over the lands, the Dann sisters exercised reserved rights to use the land under the 1863 Treaty of Ruby Valley – a treaty that ceded no lands to the United States, only granting the U.S. certain access rights to lands. The Indian Claims Commission – created in 1946 to “compensate” tribes for unfairly taken lands (but not return the lands) – decided that U.S. title to Western Shoshone lands had been obtained through gradual encroachment by whites – that is, United State’s title to the land was based on simply taking it!

Also referencing the Dann

Also referencing the Dann sisters. . .

Thomas Pearce

The memory of the proud Dann sisters standing up to demand that the Ruby Valley Treaty of 1863 be upheld. In 1979, the Us government offered the Western Shoshone miniscule amount of money to abandon their claims to the land. 80% of the Western Shoshone people voted against the settlement and the tribe, the nation, demanded the treaty be upheld. It has never been upheld. This situation is extremely troubling. The fact that the land that Cliven Bundy was grazing his cattle on was possibly on disputed Ruby Valley Treaty land that had been stolen from the Western Shoshone is more than ironic.

Wiki has a very good entry

Wiki has a very good entry for it which by coincidence i had just been reading before visiting here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

Ooops i see someone already

Ooops i see someone already linked to wiki...

http://www.politicalresearch.

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/04/17/frazier-glenn-miller-the-ongoing-trend-of-former-military-neo-nazi-murders/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/23/back-at-the-bundy-ranch-more-militiamen-gather-things-get-crazier/

Cliven Bundy is a massive

Cliven Bundy is a massive pro-slavery racist shocker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-racist_n_5204821.html

http://www.splcenter.org/blog

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/24/mainstream-supporters-scatter-after-cliven-bundy-muses-on-the-negro-in-the-new-york-times/

fleurnoire-et-rouge

Cliven Bundy is a massive pro-slavery racist shocker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-racist_n_5204821.html

Its funny how in his eyes government subsidy caused black people to live worse then slaves, and yet he's so desperate for a form of government subsidy via access to state grazing lands. Does this mean he'd do better as a slave picking cotton?

fleurnoire-et-rouge

Cliven Bundy is a massive pro-slavery racist shocker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-racist_n_5204821.html

At the bottom of the story, there is gallery of pictures. The first one has a collection of placards. One of those placards has a quote from an old Woody Guthrie song, "This Land is Your Land".

Woodie (who was a Wobbly) would be rolling in his grave.

A bit of satire that

A bit of satire that highlights the issues the fringe GOP is already experiencing with the militia-right.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/04/republicans-blast-nevada-rancher-for-failing-to-use-commonly-accepted-racial-code-words.html

Ablokeimet

fleurnoire-et-rouge

Cliven Bundy is a massive pro-slavery racist shocker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/cliven-bundy-racist_n_5204821.html

At the bottom of the story, there is gallery of pictures. The first one has a collection of placards. One of those placards has a quote from an old Woody Guthrie song, "This Land is Your Land".

Woodie (who was a Wobbly) would be rolling in his grave.

You know who else tried to use that as a campaign song? George W. effin' Bush.

But I agree, it's painful. The apparently unconscious co-optation of a socialist anthem. I mean, Jesus, just listen to the lyrics!

They probably both remember

They probably both remember the kids' satire:

This land is my land
This land ain't your land
If you don't get off
I'll blow your head off...

Just a quick myth to bust,

Just a quick myth to bust, Woody was never a member of the IWW, but rather was on the fringe of the CPUSA.

Bundy denies that he is

Bundy denies that he is racists.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bundy-ranch-uncensored

A self-trained lawyer tells me the same. He adds that Bar-certified lawyers, like the ones who prosecuted Bundy, have sworn loyalty to the British government, whose statutes encourage sex with clients. “That’s what they do with all their clients.”

Entdinglichung

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bundy-ranch-uncensored

A self-trained lawyer tells me the same. He adds that Bar-certified lawyers, like the ones who prosecuted Bundy, have sworn loyalty to the British government, whose statutes encourage sex with clients. “That’s what they do with all their clients.”

Hmmm looks like Bundy's attracted some Larouchians to add to the mix.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bundy-ranch-uncensored

Bundy

The crowd, fresh off their victory at the Battle of Bunkerville, gives Bundy a standing ovation. But he doesn’t seem pleased. He reproaches the crowd for failing to follow the word of God – to the letter – which he says is being delivered through him. They failed, for example, to follow his instructions to tear down the toll booths at Lake Mead and disarm the Park Service.

"The message I gave to you all was a revelation that I received. And yet not one of you can seem to even quote it.”

Um, seems like Bundy is getting kind of cult-y?

Bundy is a figure somewhere

Bundy is a figure somewhere at the (right-wing) fringes of official Mormonism, according to Daily Kos, he is a big fan of Cleon Skousen

Send in the drones...

ocelot wrote: Send in the

ocelot

Send in the drones...

http://www.splcenter.org/blog

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/04/30/back-at-the-bundy-ranch-its-oath-keepers-vs-militiamen-as-wild-rumors-fly/

As you can see in the video below, the angry militiamen – led by a Montana “Patriot” named Ryan Payne, who has been acting as the spokesman for the militiamen at the ranch – held an impromptu gathering at the camp to discuss the situation. They openly talk about shooting Rhodes and other Oath Keepers leaders – because in their view, the Oath Keepers’ actions constituted “desertion” and “cowardice” – and describe how “the whole thing is falling apart over there.” At the end, they vote unanimously to oust the Oath Keepers, or at least its leadership, from the Bundy Ranch camp.

from that spl

from that spl piece

Alias also tried to explain the incoming-drone rumor:
.
Yes, it is true: Oath Keepers received a bizarre bit of leaked info which could not be verified but which also could not be ignored. Our contact is connected with the Department of Defense – or ‘was’. The info we received stated that Eric Holder of the Department of Justice had okayed a drone strike on the Bundy ranch near Bunkerville, Nevada, within a 48 hour period over the weekend of April 26/27, 2014.
.
That, fortunately, turned out to be ‘dis-info’ – a false rumor. And though it came from a trusted source, Oath Keepers could neither prove nor disprove it.
.
In the ensuing panic at the camp, “Oath Keepers advised people there to consider evacuation,” Alias said. He referred to the angry reaction of the militiamen as “backwash”.

LOL. Remember kids - you heard it here first.

meanwhile in Montana:

meanwhile in Montana: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/05/01/montanas-natural-man-defies-courts-sets-up-another-rural-patriot-showdown/

“Do not tell me to shut up! I am the living, natural man, and my voice will be heard!”

has the Outlaw moved to the States?

Quote: has the Outlaw moved

has the Outlaw moved to the States?

Nope. I heard he was railing against SolFed for refusing to join in common cause with the Living Man though.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/horsford-tells-sheriff-sandoval-move-militia-out-bunkerville

Horsford said another man called Bundy a “welfare rancher” who’s living off taxpayer subsidies while getting rich by running cattle on public land.

Entdinglichung

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/horsford-tells-sheriff-sandoval-move-militia-out-bunkerville

Horsford said another man called Bundy a “welfare rancher” who’s living off taxpayer subsidies while getting rich by running cattle on public land.

Horsford, D-Nev., said he spent the morning attending a mayor’s pancake breakfast in Mesquite, which is part of his 4th Congressional District. He said he was approached by residents, including a fifth-grader, who asked him, “What are you going to do to get the militia out?” of the area.

He said the girl also asked him why Bundy refused to pay his grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management, which attempted to round up his cattle before halting the operation April 12 to avoid violence.

“She said, ‘He should just do what everybody else does and pay his share,’” Horsford said, telling the story to the Clark County Democratic Party convention at the Tropicana.

That's batshit. These endless soap operas and good cop bad cop routines between the two parties are so unbearable. They fulfill the totality of what supposed to be politics in american media and life.

Chilli Sauce

At the bottom of the story, there is gallery of pictures. The first one has a collection of placards. One of those placards has a quote from an old Woody Guthrie song, "This Land is Your Land".

Woodie (who was a Wobbly) would be rolling in his grave.

You know who else tried to use that as a campaign song? George W. effin' Bush.

But I agree, it's painful. The apparently unconscious co-optation of a socialist anthem. I mean, Jesus, just listen to the lyrics!

[/quote]

I think American nationalism and militarism are entirely reconcilable with Woodies Popular Front Stalinism (and I say this as a big Guthrie fan). He avidly wrote songs and performed for the army during the world war after all. Not sure but I think when I was in 4th grade in American school in the late 90's the school gave me a binder with excerpted This Land lyrics written alongside the American national anthem on the inside cover.

There's pretty decent movie by anarchyist director Oshima called Sing a Song of Sex where This Land is Your Land is awesomely lampooned at poignant moment.

American populism is a

American populism is a strange animal

Entdinglichung

American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

teh wrote: Entdinglichung

teh

Entdinglichung

American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

But it's also a society with it's own distinct history, which I think Europeans tend to discount too easily. The knee-jerk eurocentric view is to view Americans as basically failed Europeans who don't "get it" - i.e. viewing American political difference as just "weirdness" without a (materialist) historical development of its own.

There are elements of American populism that go back to Jeffersonian and Jacksonian "anti-bourgeois" political traditions of agrarian civic democracy based on a petit bourgeois "all land to the peasants" yeoman farmer civic democracy that was explicitly hostile to banks, finance, industrial development, cities and an urban wage-slave proletariat. Of course the other side of that coin is a racist settler ideology of territorial expansion (manifest destiny) and accommodation with, if not outright enthusiasm for, slavery. But that settler/extension developmental model of politics held sway over the bourgeois/intensification model in the US from its foundation to at least the Civil War - when the opposing industrial/financial bourgeoisie finally gained the upper hand. But gaining the upper hand does not necessarily mean entirely wiping out the opposition or its lingering ideas.

Of course nowadays the epigones of the losing tendency are reduced to a "golden age"-nostalgic rump and the original latent anti-capitalist elements are now completely submerged and substituted by hysterical and apocalyptic conspiranoid lunacy, but to some degree that's inevitable considering how obsolete that tendency is in terms of forming a viable programme for US capital's development.

a good book on this

a good book on this contradictory topic is Agrarian Socialism in America: Marx, Jefferson, and Jesus in the Oklahoma Countryside, 1904-1920 by Jim Bissett

teh wrote: Entdinglichung

teh

Entdinglichung

American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

cresspot wrote: teh

cresspot

teh

Entdinglichung

American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

I think hip hop has the same Mom'N'Pop businessmen "get the man off our back" populist ethos that punk and Bundy have. From the "underground" musicians and the entrepreneur ideal to White House darlings like Jay-z who when asked why he had the face of the former President of the National Bank of Cuba Guevara on his shirt said that like the former hes "a revolutionary" because he became a 'millionaire in a racist society.' So petty bourgeois aspiration basically. Most hip hop artists don't become business owners but that's the goal-'alternative' or 'major'- by people originally marginalized in the economy (though yuppies like Kanye West hitch the ride).

I guess Bundy supporters are

I guess Bundy supporters are going to go tear-up some archaeological sites with their ATV's in a show of force and defiance of the fed gov'mint.

teh wrote: cresspot

teh

cresspot

teh

Entdinglichung

American populism is a strange animal

That's all they got. America is a very closed society.

No we got hip hop

I think hip hop has the same Mom'N'Pop businessmen "get the man off our back" populist ethos that punk and Bundy have. From the "underground" musicians and the entrepreneur ideal to White House darlings like Jay-z who when asked why he had the face of the former President of the National Bank of Cuba Guevara on his shirt said that like the former hes "a revolutionary" because he became a 'millionaire in a racist society.' So petty bourgeois aspiration basically. Most hip hop artists don't become business owners but that's the goal-'alternative' or 'major'- by people originally marginalized in the economy (though yuppies like Kanye West hitch the ride).

Yeah black culture is so fucked up.

OliverTwister wrote: black

OliverTwister

black culture is so fucked up.

What now?

I was just agreeing with

I was just agreeing with Teh's critique of Hip Hop's petty bourgeois ethos

Preemptive dont derail pls

Soapy wrote: Preemptive dont

Soapy

Preemptive dont derail pls

oh so i cant respond to this. sheesh

Just start a new

Just start a new topic/thread.

(No subject)

[youtube]ABx4KdxJnzw[/youtube]

Breaking: Vegas Mass-Shooters

Breaking: Vegas Mass-Shooters Were Bundy Ranch Tea Party TERRORISTS! (Video)

“This is the start of a revolution,” the shooters yelled as they opened fire on Las Vegas Metro police officers Alyn Beck and Igor Soldo inside a Las Vegas Cici’s Pizza–and it appears the revolution of which the couple spoke is the exact one that has been promised by the ‘nonviolent patriots’ at the Bundy Ranch.
Cliven Bundy’s supporters are currently being investigated for bomb threats, making menacing statements toward government officials, and pointing weapons at and threatening police. Now, it seems, the government’s failure to do something about these violent, unstable terrorists has reached the next step: actual murder.
The shooters reportedly draped the familiar symbol of the Tea Party and other extremist right-wing groups–the bright yellow “Don’t Tread on Me” Gadsden flag–over their victims’ bodies. Among the couple’s belongings, police found swastika symbols. Neighbors have explained that the couple may have been methamphetamine users, and regularly spoke of conspiracy theories–and their plans to kill police officers.
One neighbor said the man claimed that he and his partner-in-crime had been kicked off of Bundy Ranch. “The man told Monroe he had been kicked off Cliven Bundy’s ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas while people from throughout the U.S. gathered there in protest of a Bureau of Land Management roundup of Bundy’s cattle,” neighbor Jessica Anderson said.

edit: The Chilling Anti-Government, Cliven Bundy-Loving Facebook Posts of the Alleged Las Vegas Shooters

(apologies for the liberal links, not found much of more substance thus far.)

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/carbon-county-utah-resolution-blm

A Utah county passed a resolution this month asserting that the authority of federal agents, specifically those of the Bureau of Land Management, to enforce state or local laws -- even on federal land -- would not be recognized within its borders.

The Carbon County Commission approved the resolution unanimously on June 4.

"Any such attempted exercise of law enforcement powers by an official of a land management agency IS NOT RECOGNIZED by Carbon County," the resolution stated (caps in original), "and shall be deemed AN IMMINENT THREAT TO THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE CITIZENS OF CARBON COUNTY."

In prefacing its case, the commission concluded "that Carbon County does not recognize any attempt by a federal official to try to enforce state or local criminal or civil laws on any lands in Carbon County, including any BLM or Forest Service lands."

The resolution also demanded that any federal agent intending to take a law enforcement action "shall first declare his presence and intended action to the Sheriff of Carbon County."

http://www.splcenter.org/blog

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/08/05/nevada-rancher-says-confrontation-with-feds-is-a-spiritual-experience/

“If the standoff with the Bundys was wrong, would the Lord have been with us?’’ Bundy told the gathering, according to The Spectrum. “Could those people that stood without fear and went through that spiritual experience … have done that without the Lord being there? No they couldn’t.”

four years later:

four years later: https://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-militia-leader-blasts-trump-migrant-rhetoric-1235095

An anti-government militia leader who has led armed standoffs against the government lashed out at President Donald Trump for his rhetoric about immigrants.

"He has basically called them all criminals and said they’re not coming in here. It seems that there’s been this group stereotype," Ammon Bundy said in a 17-minute video published on Facebook. "But what about those who have come here for reasons of need?... What about the fathers, the mothers, the children, who have come here and are willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually by criminals?

"It’s all fear-based, and frankly it’s based upon selfishness—‘I’m going to lose something by them coming in,'" he said of anti-immigrant statements. "I think that’s incorrect. But also to base your arguments or your motives or your actions upon fear is a very dangerous thing to do."

He said his sentiments were motivated by the duty of citizens in the U.S., which he called a "Christian nation."

"I have been frankly surprised, disappointed and even at times disgusted [by] the amount of people who profess to be Christians but will not truly adhere to what Christ said," he said.