The BBC is neither state-owned or state-controlled in that sense that the government doesn't pay for it and it doesn't have editorial control over content.
I think forcing people to pay for it through property ownership of a TV is oppressive. And as far as i have understood it that you need BBC before you can watch other programs is oppressive aswell.
I mean if i go down to a marketplace and i wanna buy a snickers bar, im not told to first buy a mars bar.
I phoned the TV licence guys around 8 months ago and informed them that I refuse to pay for a licence. I was told I would be taken to court and if I didn't pay the fine they would send ballifs to my house to collect goods to the value. I said there is a sign on my gate saying that implied rights of access have been removed and that anyone crossing the threshold will be sued for trespass. I've heard nothing since.
Noah - Jesus fucking christ TV is odd in the UK. (?) In the US, TVs grow on vines at our local community garden and the programming is hours of cat videos. Canada too, 'cept they get to watch either moose on the graze or Stan Rogers getting progressively drunker with each verse.
cactus - I don't think there is really a widely accepted or coherent position on this. Given what Noah and I have written above, it really isn't the 'same' everywhere and hasn't the same significance. If a single unifying thread exists it is probably simply support for workers control of state owned / administered media and opposition to it when it takes a particularly active role in repression of movements. Course this goes for other media outfits as well.
Few small points: I find most TV unwatchable. The BBC’s budget is controlled by the government so it bends over backwards to lick the bum of whatever party is in power. Its feigned ‘neutrality’ is to support the status quo, particularly the monarchy. The ‘independents’ are just as bad.
The non-BBC channels are peppered with adverts repeated so often that even the less offensive ones make me want to throw up. For the things I want to watch, I often wait for the DVD to be issued. The license’s fee is only a minor irritant. A plague on all of them and most of their smug presenters.
Well i dont have a TV, i threw it out long time ago. I dont wanna be a part of the TV market as long as its run by criminals. And btw there are enough interesting stuff on the internet so why bother?
I think forcing people to pay for it through property ownership of a TV is oppressive.
So, there're definitely libcom critiques to be made of state media but this, this, barely registers on the scale. In fact, it sounds a lot like right-wing arguments against the BCC or public healthcare systems or any other government service. So, Cactus, as Boozeman said, please don't take this for any sort of coherent libcom position on the matter.
All that said, no matter what attempts they make at neutrality, state media is never neutral. Although neither is the corporate media - so, for me, it's a bit of non-issue. In the UK, I think the BBC generally has better shows, better journalism, and no commercials. So, given the choice, I'll Beeb it.
I think forcing people to pay for it through property ownership of a TV is oppressive.
So, there're definitely libcom critiques to be made of state media but this, this, barely registers on the scale. In fact, it sounds a lot like right-wing arguments against the BCC or public healthcare systems or any other government service.
Doesnt matter if its right wing oppressive or left wing oppressive. Oppressive is oppressive and should be resisted. Any liberty is worth fighting for.
When you buy a computer you are also not forced to pay Microsoft for developing and delivering an operative system or for Microsoft to update their operating system continuously. You really want that kind of reality? Cmon you can do better than that. Or how about you buy a hunting rifle and now suddenly you have to pay an annually fee to Winchester who produce the ammunition. But hey, fuck Remington, Federal, Browning, Hornady, Weatherby, Beretta, Barnes who are also producing ammunition... because fuck... One of them might produce much better ammunition than Winchester but because fuck i have to use Winchester ammunition now because i was already forced to pay for it..
GP, I think you will find that as Microsoft update their systems you will have to pay. Microsoft 10, is/was free for the first run-in period, then it’ll be pay-up if you want the new platform. After all capitalism is about generating profit.
I used to imagine the BBC was superior to commercial TV, maybe it was once. The only thing which I feel is ‘reasonable’ is some radio, Radio 4 and World Service, though over the last few years there has been a deterioration as the cuts bite and some coverage takes on a lazy (cheap) magazine format. For example there is no regular world music program, similar to Charlie Gillette’s old slot.
Gulai, you do realize that you're making the same arguments that are made by apologists for capitalism? I mean the "liberty" of choice, that's the kind of "liberty" capitalism is happy to offer.
A class perspective would be about demanding concessions (whether in the forms or wages, services, housing, or products) that meet our needs. But we don't achieve that by demanding the more choice in the market - which is effectively what you've argued for in that post.
GP, I think you will find that as Microsoft update their systems you will have to pay. (...). After all capitalism is about generating profit.
Yes but dont force it on me with some retarded reason that i own a computer. If i want to upgrade my windows i will do it, if i dont want to upgrade my windows then i will not do it. Its my choice. And in both cases, (market and forced) i will have to pay because nothing is free.
Gulai, you do realize that you're making the same arguments that are made by apologists for capitalism? I mean the "liberty" of choice, that's the kind of "liberty" capitalism is happy to offer.
Yes you can say a lot of bad things about capitalism, but then you can also say some good things. Just because capitalism overall is bad doesnt mean every single bit of capitalism is bad.
that meet our needs. But we don't achieve that by demanding the more choice in the market - which is effectively what you've argued for in that post.
The best way to meet needs is to let people choose for themselves. Do you like it if the next time you are gonna buy a computer then i will command you which computer you shall buy?
Well i dont have a TV, i threw it out long time ago. I dont wanna be a part of the TV market as long as its run by criminals. And btw there are enough interesting stuff on the internet so why bother?
One doesn't just get to wash one's hands of whatever bits and pieces of capitalism one doesn't like and get to promote that activity as having some real meaning outside of a pathetic individualist 'statement' of likes and dislikes within shit capitalism. We are in and of the nightmare!
One doesn't just get to wash one's hands of whatever bits and pieces of capitalism one doesn't like and get to promote that activity as having some real meaning outside of a pathetic individualist 'statement' of likes and dislikes within shit capitalism. We are in and of the nightmare!
Its not about capitalism its about monopoly and criminals which is why i said
Knowledge about monopolies and why they are bad can be obtained here:
http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/monopoly.htm
Yep occasionally I'll watch a few programmes I've saved online but thats about it. The reason why I support the bbc, bt, british gas, national rail etc is because they are still former utilities that can be brought back under our control for now.
Auld-bod
Few small points: I find most TV unwatchable. The BBC’s budget is controlled by the government so it bends over backwards to lick the bum of whatever party is in power. Its feigned ‘neutrality’ is to support the status quo, particularly the monarchy. The ‘independents’ are just as bad.
The non-BBC channels are peppered with adverts repeated so often that even the less offensive ones make me want to throw up. For the things I want to watch, I often wait for the DVD to be issued. The license’s fee is only a minor irritant. A plague on all of them and most of their smug presenters.
Its not about capitalism its about monopoly and criminals which is why i said
This quite sums it up for GP though, doesn't it? It's not about capitalism, so we should probably stop engaging him as if we have shared politics (which doesn't mean stop engaging) and he should stop carrying himself as if he's an anarchist.
Sleeper #21 ‘Yep occasionally I'll watch a few programmes I've saved online but thats about it. The reason why I support the bbc, bt, british gas, national rail etc is because they are still former utilities that can be brought back under our control for now.’
The concept of Nationalization was sold to the working class as ‘our control’, that was a myth, as it was state (capitalist) control. The 1945 myth exemplified in Alex Glasgow’s song:
Ours! Ours! Ours! Ours! Ours! When it’s ours, Jackie boy, When it’s ours
There'll be changes, bonny lad, when it’s ours
When us colliers take control, no more 12 inch seams of coal
No more means test, no more dole
When its ours, all ours
(Y'know, I saw Manny Shinwell looking at Seaham colliery
- You saw Manny Shinwell looking at Seaham colliery? What did he say?
Mine, all mine!)
When it’s ours, Gordie lad, when it’s ours
Man, what glorious times we'll have when its ours
What does the future hold for me?
-You can retire at 23!
-On full pension?
Naturally!
When it’s ours, all ours
(So, I gans on holiday to the South of France, an' I sez to the waiter "Have you got frogs legs? "Mais oui, hinny" he sez. "Right", I sez, "hop off and fetch us some nice pease puddin')
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when its ours
I've got plans, bonny lad, when its ours
By, We'll really live it up, only best champagne we'll sup
While Newcastle win the cup, when its ours all ours
(Ah say, Geordie, did you gan an' see Newcastle play last Saturday?
- Nah, why they didn't come to see me when I was bad)
When its ours, Geordie lad, when its ours
Man, the wife'll be reet glad when its ours
Tell me Jackie, what’s in store? What will she be grateful for?
Why, I'll stop in bed, wi' her
When it’s ours, all ours
(So I sez to the gaffer, can I have the day off, the wife expecting a bairn? Why, certainly, he sez. When’s the baby due?
- I said in Nine months time)
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when it’s ours
We'll be masters, bonny lad, when it’s ours
We may step lightly on the grass, to let Lord Londonderry pass
Then we'll kick him up .. the ...path,
When it’s ours, all ours!
(So, Lord Londonderry had this dream
- Lord Londonderry had a dream?
Aye, he dreamed he was making an important speech in the House of Lords, an' when he woke up - he was)
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when it’s ours
Oh, what holidays we'll have, when it’s ours
California! Sante Fe!
Winter sports, an' St Tropez!
An' to hell with Whitley Bay,
When it’s ours, all ours!
When it’s ours, Geordi lad, when it’s ours
There'll changes bonny lad, when it’s ours
- Are you sure we'll be all right? Is the future really bright?
(Oh, for God's sake, man) We've won this bloody fight
An’ it’s ours, all ours!’
Quote: The BBC is neither
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-BBC-the-state-owned-and-state-controlled-TV-operator-in-the-UK
I think forcing people to pay for it through property ownership of a TV is oppressive. And as far as i have understood it that you need BBC before you can watch other programs is oppressive aswell.
I mean if i go down to a marketplace and i wanna buy a snickers bar, im not told to first buy a mars bar.
Ok, fair point. State owned
Ok, fair point. State owned or administered then.
I phoned the TV licence guys
I phoned the TV licence guys around 8 months ago and informed them that I refuse to pay for a licence. I was told I would be taken to court and if I didn't pay the fine they would send ballifs to my house to collect goods to the value. I said there is a sign on my gate saying that implied rights of access have been removed and that anyone crossing the threshold will be sued for trespass. I've heard nothing since.
Noah - Jesus fucking christ
Noah - Jesus fucking christ TV is odd in the UK. (?) In the US, TVs grow on vines at our local community garden and the programming is hours of cat videos. Canada too, 'cept they get to watch either moose on the graze or Stan Rogers getting progressively drunker with each verse.
cactus - I don't think there is really a widely accepted or coherent position on this. Given what Noah and I have written above, it really isn't the 'same' everywhere and hasn't the same significance. If a single unifying thread exists it is probably simply support for workers control of state owned / administered media and opposition to it when it takes a particularly active role in repression of movements. Course this goes for other media outfits as well.
Few small points: I find most
Few small points: I find most TV unwatchable. The BBC’s budget is controlled by the government so it bends over backwards to lick the bum of whatever party is in power. Its feigned ‘neutrality’ is to support the status quo, particularly the monarchy. The ‘independents’ are just as bad.
The non-BBC channels are peppered with adverts repeated so often that even the less offensive ones make me want to throw up. For the things I want to watch, I often wait for the DVD to be issued. The license’s fee is only a minor irritant. A plague on all of them and most of their smug presenters.
Well i dont have a TV, i
Well i dont have a TV, i threw it out long time ago. I dont wanna be a part of the TV market as long as its run by criminals. And btw there are enough interesting stuff on the internet so why bother?
Quote: I think forcing people
So, there're definitely libcom critiques to be made of state media but this, this, barely registers on the scale. In fact, it sounds a lot like right-wing arguments against the BCC or public healthcare systems or any other government service. So, Cactus, as Boozeman said, please don't take this for any sort of coherent libcom position on the matter.
All that said, no matter what attempts they make at neutrality, state media is never neutral. Although neither is the corporate media - so, for me, it's a bit of non-issue. In the UK, I think the BBC generally has better shows, better journalism, and no commercials. So, given the choice, I'll Beeb it.
Chilli Sauce wrote: Quote: I
Chilli Sauce
Doesnt matter if its right wing oppressive or left wing oppressive. Oppressive is oppressive and should be resisted. Any liberty is worth fighting for.
When you buy a computer you are also not forced to pay Microsoft for developing and delivering an operative system or for Microsoft to update their operating system continuously. You really want that kind of reality? Cmon you can do better than that. Or how about you buy a hunting rifle and now suddenly you have to pay an annually fee to Winchester who produce the ammunition. But hey, fuck Remington, Federal, Browning, Hornady, Weatherby, Beretta, Barnes who are also producing ammunition... because fuck... One of them might produce much better ammunition than Winchester but because fuck i have to use Winchester ammunition now because i was already forced to pay for it..
GP, I think you will find
GP, I think you will find that as Microsoft update their systems you will have to pay. Microsoft 10, is/was free for the first run-in period, then it’ll be pay-up if you want the new platform. After all capitalism is about generating profit.
I used to imagine the BBC was superior to commercial TV, maybe it was once. The only thing which I feel is ‘reasonable’ is some radio, Radio 4 and World Service, though over the last few years there has been a deterioration as the cuts bite and some coverage takes on a lazy (cheap) magazine format. For example there is no regular world music program, similar to Charlie Gillette’s old slot.
Gulai, you do realize that
Gulai, you do realize that you're making the same arguments that are made by apologists for capitalism? I mean the "liberty" of choice, that's the kind of "liberty" capitalism is happy to offer.
A class perspective would be about demanding concessions (whether in the forms or wages, services, housing, or products) that meet our needs. But we don't achieve that by demanding the more choice in the market - which is effectively what you've argued for in that post.
Auld-bod wrote: GP, I think
Auld-bod
Yes but dont force it on me with some retarded reason that i own a computer. If i want to upgrade my windows i will do it, if i dont want to upgrade my windows then i will not do it. Its my choice. And in both cases, (market and forced) i will have to pay because nothing is free.
Chilli Sauce wrote: Gulai,
Chilli Sauce
Yes you can say a lot of bad things about capitalism, but then you can also say some good things. Just because capitalism overall is bad doesnt mean every single bit of capitalism is bad.
The best way to meet needs is to let people choose for themselves. Do you like it if the next time you are gonna buy a computer then i will command you which computer you shall buy?
Yeah,,,,because
Yeah,,,,because this:
...is the same as this:
Where's that damn rolly-eyes emoji when I need it?
Knowledge about monopolies
Knowledge about monopolies and why they are bad can be obtained here:
http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/monopoly.htm
You really just don't make
You really just don't make any effort to try to understand or engage with the arguments put forwatd to you, do you?
I think the concepts of macro
I think the concepts of macro media and micro media are useful. Both have positives and negatives.
Chilli Sauce wrote: You
Chilli Sauce
Neither do you
Gulai Polye wrote: Well i
Gulai Polye
One doesn't just get to wash one's hands of whatever bits and pieces of capitalism one doesn't like and get to promote that activity as having some real meaning outside of a pathetic individualist 'statement' of likes and dislikes within shit capitalism. We are in and of the nightmare!
boozemonarchy wrote: One
boozemonarchy
Its not about capitalism its about monopoly and criminals which is why i said
Yep occasionally I'll watch a
Yep occasionally I'll watch a few programmes I've saved online but thats about it. The reason why I support the bbc, bt, british gas, national rail etc is because they are still former utilities that can be brought back under our control for now.
Auld-bod
Gulai Polye wrote: Its not
Gulai Polye
Which are bits and pieces of capitalism; particularly ugly yes, but not particularly special.
Quote: Its not about
This quite sums it up for GP though, doesn't it? It's not about capitalism, so we should probably stop engaging him as if we have shared politics (which doesn't mean stop engaging) and he should stop carrying himself as if he's an anarchist.
From now on im just not gonna
From now on im just not gonna respond to you any more Chilli Sauce because its pointless
Sleeper #21 ‘Yep occasionally
Sleeper #21
‘Yep occasionally I'll watch a few programmes I've saved online but thats about it. The reason why I support the bbc, bt, british gas, national rail etc is because they are still former utilities that can be brought back under our control for now.’
The concept of Nationalization was sold to the working class as ‘our control’, that was a myth, as it was state (capitalist) control. The 1945 myth exemplified in Alex Glasgow’s song:
Ours! Ours! Ours! Ours! Ours!
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, When it’s ours
There'll be changes, bonny lad, when it’s ours
When us colliers take control, no more 12 inch seams of coal
No more means test, no more dole
When its ours, all ours
(Y'know, I saw Manny Shinwell looking at Seaham colliery
- You saw Manny Shinwell looking at Seaham colliery? What did he say?
Mine, all mine!)
When it’s ours, Gordie lad, when it’s ours
Man, what glorious times we'll have when its ours
What does the future hold for me?
-You can retire at 23!
-On full pension?
Naturally!
When it’s ours, all ours
(So, I gans on holiday to the South of France, an' I sez to the waiter "Have you got frogs legs? "Mais oui, hinny" he sez. "Right", I sez, "hop off and fetch us some nice pease puddin')
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when its ours
I've got plans, bonny lad, when its ours
By, We'll really live it up, only best champagne we'll sup
While Newcastle win the cup, when its ours all ours
(Ah say, Geordie, did you gan an' see Newcastle play last Saturday?
- Nah, why they didn't come to see me when I was bad)
When its ours, Geordie lad, when its ours
Man, the wife'll be reet glad when its ours
Tell me Jackie, what’s in store? What will she be grateful for?
Why, I'll stop in bed, wi' her
When it’s ours, all ours
(So I sez to the gaffer, can I have the day off, the wife expecting a bairn? Why, certainly, he sez. When’s the baby due?
- I said in Nine months time)
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when it’s ours
We'll be masters, bonny lad, when it’s ours
We may step lightly on the grass, to let Lord Londonderry pass
Then we'll kick him up .. the ...path,
When it’s ours, all ours!
(So, Lord Londonderry had this dream
- Lord Londonderry had a dream?
Aye, he dreamed he was making an important speech in the House of Lords, an' when he woke up - he was)
When it’s ours, Jackie boy, when it’s ours
Oh, what holidays we'll have, when it’s ours
California! Sante Fe!
Winter sports, an' St Tropez!
An' to hell with Whitley Bay,
When it’s ours, all ours!
When it’s ours, Geordi lad, when it’s ours
There'll changes bonny lad, when it’s ours
- Are you sure we'll be all right? Is the future really bright?
(Oh, for God's sake, man) We've won this bloody fight
An’ it’s ours, all ours!’
It was unfortunately a bloody lie.