Surprisingly I cared when England conceded in injury time.
My attitude has softened over the years, I remember cheering when Northern Ireland scored and stopped watching England for years.
That said they didn't play too badly, still pretty shaky in terms of positioning but no one has been able to fix that.
What gets up the goat of many is the concentration of media attention upon the English national team and its followers.
Rather than focus on the historic Welsh victory and the welcoming friendly relations between the locals and the Welsh fans we get the headlines on Engerland's woes, both on and off the field.
Maybe someone can explain how singing of one particular national anthem sets off a chain reaction of hate, while an even more vocal singing of another national anthem gains the respect of the opposition?
In other words, what is it about the typical (or stereotypical) England football fan that the world detests?
Respective hooligans, French police and English media just need to chill. I'm looking forward to the World Cup in Russia. Not.
Innit. When I watch videos of the violence I always think that the Russian hooligans look like the nuts bouncers of clubs you're not sure you'll get into while the English look like guys on a stag-do not being let in..
Even though this is the first England team in a long time that I find easy-ish to get behind, I have to admit I did let a little smirk onto my face when the Russians scored. Too many Spurs players, imo.. Gibbs would've sorted that cross out.. ;)
In other words, what is it about the typical (or stereotypical) England football fan that the world detests?
Well aside from political historical rivalries, the reputation for violence that the fans have, the fact that they fill up public spaces drunkenly and noisily...
Ithink there is some truth in the argument that England supporters are not being deliberately aggressive when they sit around drinking and singing but I can see why people take it that way. Also the French police tactics are different so English supporters react differently to them.
There was a thing in one of the papers where a russian hooligan (it was the DM I think so there's a good chance it was made up) said that they'd give the England fans a kicking for fun but the real fight would be with the croats et al. because the England fans were too fat, old and drunk. There was a thing a while back where because of their reputation hooligans from other countries would go loking for England fans to build up their reputation, not sure if England fans still have a reputation. There was some fighting at the NI game to, I remember that some Scots used to travel with the English so they could get in on the action.
I don't think he posts here but Fed off Matb knew a fair bit about ultras and casuals.
Isn't this kind of tournament in odd with workers internationalism? I think it is. Club football is more tolerable, but they are too capitalistic and harsh now. Both ruin the beautiful game. The beautiful game has become too physical. I think we should take football serious and criticize the violent, physical and capitalistic aspect of it. Even women football are harsh now. In western culture, now we see many movies showing women military heroes. This is abuse of women, not women liberation. A lot of cultural shit is going on under the name of liberation.
I think there is some truth in the argument that England supporters are not being deliberately aggressive when they sit around drinking and singing but I can see why people take it that way. Also the French police tactics are different so English supporters react differently to them.
But so did the Welsh get drunk and sing their songs with much gusto. Maybe they sing in tune better.
Northern Ireland's first game is tonight. From what i read the Northern Irish fans were attacked by local football ultras, not by any rival Polish fans.
The Scots always get drunk and make a spectacle of themselves in public places and have come up against the same sort of police control as English fans have but rarely get involved in violence. (I'm specifically talking about the Tartan Army and not the travelling club supporters of the likes of Rangers). And the Scots ever since Argentina expect to get beat and have become the best losers in the world, maybe that is the reason.
So many English fans never intend any bother but they are nevertheless viewed as provocative.
How culpable is the media in hyping up the English nationalism even though i am sure the limited coverage from Welsh and NI is just as patriotic but is it needling the other participants as much?
I just have this niggling feeling i am missing something...something beyond the football and the flag-waving.
I don't know if they will meet each other in the later stages but there is a lot of potential political flashpoint...Ukraine V Russia
i'm in dublin this past week and the eng-rus game was on in the pub and there was a quiet but audible murmur of satisfaction when russia scored
e2a: i know it sound sunlikely that anything in a dublin pub could be described as a "quiet but audible murmur" but it's in a relatively boozhwah neighborhood
But so did the Welsh get drunk and sing their songs with much gusto. Maybe they sing in tune better.
...
So many English fans never intend any bother but they are nevertheless viewed as provocative.
How culpable is the media in hyping up the English nationalism even though i am sure the limited coverage from Welsh and NI is just as patriotic but is it needling the other participants as much?
Well I think historically there's not so much reason to react to the Welsh and they probably do sing better. And they probably don't sing songs about the IRA etc
Also there are always loads of England fans so it's easy enough to find a few and knock them about and feel tough, which is a fair chiunk of being a football hooligan isn't it? I've read a bit and for all the mythologising it is basically about the fun of fighting and bragging rights.
The Scots always get drunk and make a spectacle of themselves in public places and have come up against the same sort of police control as English fans have but rarely get involved in violence. (I'm specifically talking about the Tartan Army and not the travelling club supporters of the likes of Rangers). And the Scots ever since Argentina expect to get beat and have become the best losers in the world, maybe that is the reason.
I didn't mean the tartan army, I meant the ones (usually Ranger iirc) who travel with England for the fighting.
A couple of things. I think the french side showed a bit of class in the opening game, but not enough to win a tournament.
I think the 'violence' between the English supporters and French police is a cultural thing. The french police use tear gas as a first choice. Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
I think the England match was good and positive. There was no one in the team who could have reached that ball to stop the russians scoring. All it showed me was how well the team played and closed down the russian national team for most of the match.
I think the 'violence' between the English supporters and French police is a cultural thing. The french police use tear gas as a first choice. Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
This sounds exactly those parody tweets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hayder_alKhoei/status/741659456526815232
The beautiful game has become too physical. I think we should take football serious and criticize the violent, physical and capitalistic aspect of it. Even women football are harsh now. In western culture, now we see many movies showing women military heroes. This is abuse of women, not women liberation. A lot of cultural shit is going on under the name of liberation.
I really think football could be a beautiful game in the future but competition is inherently ugly.
Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
Essentialists bollocks. In any case, it's not like the French run from teargas. Did the summit hopping thing back when and the French were used to it.
Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
What the fuck??? For someone who calls yourself an anarchist, you're a bit free with your national stereotypes.
I couldn't help but laugh at the news of Russian football fans attacking their English rivals... I don't quite comprehend soccer culture (sic) over here and... I was just imagining that these foozballs are Putin's elite hooligan corps or something? What the hell is this ridiculousness? Couldn't help laughing!
And yet I've been proven correct again. The russian hooligans were fast moving, in and out, and very few arrests. The local french lads again in and out and know the streets, very few arrests. The english, trying to stand there ground, throw a few bottles and get arrested.
I thought the Italians were good last night. There wasn't much expectation on them, especially from their national media, and they played so well. That volley was superb.
Noah Fence
Sleeper man, wtf is going on with your recent posts? It ain't good I'm telling ya.
In other words, what is it about the typical (or stereotypical) England football fan that the world detests?
Are they really hated more than any other fans? I don't particularly like football fans of any national team, its too male and associated with jingoism and hooliganism for my liking.
Also it was nice of them to give passing mention of the 'industrial action' going on in Paris, although they basically said people were sick of it and needed the football to take there minds of everything.
This is why I hate events like this, it glorifies whatever nation its held in whilst they are screwing people over.
And yet I've been proven correct again. The russian hooligans were fast moving, in and out, and very few arrests. The local french lads again in and out and know the streets, very few arrests. The english, trying to stand there ground, throw a few bottles and get arrested.
English football hooliganism was never the same after Millwall fans started popping pills.
And yet I've been proven correct again. The russian hooligans were fast moving, in and out, and very few arrests. The local french lads again in and out and know the streets, very few arrests. The english, trying to stand there ground, throw a few bottles and get arrested.
English football hooliganism was never the same after Millwall fans started popping pills.
Same with West Ham. I remember being at Upton Park and watching the thug section all hugging each other. I liked it at the time but now I'm not so sure.
It's all bullshit. In my hoolie days, we had a lot more class than these Ingerland knobheads. Young Serge was in this lot somewhere... and the voiceovers were much posher in them days :D
No, wrong again - you stood to attention and said;
Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
Yet your "we" of this supposed 'plucky island race' didn't "stand strong and hold our ground" but got battered, gassed, nicked & dispersed on the streets and immediately legged it from the Russians on the terraces.
It's all bullshit. In my hoolie days, we had a lot more class than these Ingerland knobheads. Young Serge was in this lot somewhere... and the voiceovers were much posher in them days :D
Surprisingly I cared when
Surprisingly I cared when England conceded in injury time.
My attitude has softened over the years, I remember cheering when Northern Ireland scored and stopped watching England for years.
That said they didn't play too badly, still pretty shaky in terms of positioning but no one has been able to fix that.
(No subject)
factvalue wrote: Ooh, hoity
factvalue
Ooh, hoity toity!
Anyway, paint drying gags are my domain around here. Written permission required you trespassing son of a bitch.
You're right. Luckily with
You're right. Luckily with 'the beautiful game' there's an obvious alternative:
What gets up the goat of many
What gets up the goat of many is the concentration of media attention upon the English national team and its followers.
Rather than focus on the historic Welsh victory and the welcoming friendly relations between the locals and the Welsh fans we get the headlines on Engerland's woes, both on and off the field.
Maybe someone can explain how singing of one particular national anthem sets off a chain reaction of hate, while an even more vocal singing of another national anthem gains the respect of the opposition?
In other words, what is it about the typical (or stereotypical) England football fan that the world detests?
Respective hooligans, French
Respective hooligans, French police and English media just need to chill. I'm looking forward to the World Cup in Russia. Not.
wojtek wrote: Respective
wojtek
Innit. When I watch videos of the violence I always think that the Russian hooligans look like the nuts bouncers of clubs you're not sure you'll get into while the English look like guys on a stag-do not being let in..
Even though this is the first England team in a long time that I find easy-ish to get behind, I have to admit I did let a little smirk onto my face when the Russians scored. Too many Spurs players, imo.. Gibbs would've sorted that cross out.. ;)
(No subject)
ajjohnstone wrote: In other
ajjohnstone
Well aside from political historical rivalries, the reputation for violence that the fans have, the fact that they fill up public spaces drunkenly and noisily...
Ithink there is some truth in the argument that England supporters are not being deliberately aggressive when they sit around drinking and singing but I can see why people take it that way. Also the French police tactics are different so English supporters react differently to them.
There was a thing in one of the papers where a russian hooligan (it was the DM I think so there's a good chance it was made up) said that they'd give the England fans a kicking for fun but the real fight would be with the croats et al. because the England fans were too fat, old and drunk. There was a thing a while back where because of their reputation hooligans from other countries would go loking for England fans to build up their reputation, not sure if England fans still have a reputation. There was some fighting at the NI game to, I remember that some Scots used to travel with the English so they could get in on the action.
I don't think he posts here but Fed off Matb knew a fair bit about ultras and casuals.
Isn't this kind of tournament
Isn't this kind of tournament in odd with workers internationalism? I think it is. Club football is more tolerable, but they are too capitalistic and harsh now. Both ruin the beautiful game. The beautiful game has become too physical. I think we should take football serious and criticize the violent, physical and capitalistic aspect of it. Even women football are harsh now. In western culture, now we see many movies showing women military heroes. This is abuse of women, not women liberation. A lot of cultural shit is going on under the name of liberation.
Quote: I think there is some
But so did the Welsh get drunk and sing their songs with much gusto. Maybe they sing in tune better.
Northern Ireland's first game is tonight. From what i read the Northern Irish fans were attacked by local football ultras, not by any rival Polish fans.
The Scots always get drunk and make a spectacle of themselves in public places and have come up against the same sort of police control as English fans have but rarely get involved in violence. (I'm specifically talking about the Tartan Army and not the travelling club supporters of the likes of Rangers). And the Scots ever since Argentina expect to get beat and have become the best losers in the world, maybe that is the reason.
So many English fans never intend any bother but they are nevertheless viewed as provocative.
How culpable is the media in hyping up the English nationalism even though i am sure the limited coverage from Welsh and NI is just as patriotic but is it needling the other participants as much?
I just have this niggling feeling i am missing something...something beyond the football and the flag-waving.
I don't know if they will meet each other in the later stages but there is a lot of potential political flashpoint...Ukraine V Russia
i'm in dublin this past week
i'm in dublin this past week and the eng-rus game was on in the pub and there was a quiet but audible murmur of satisfaction when russia scored
e2a: i know it sound sunlikely that anything in a dublin pub could be described as a "quiet but audible murmur" but it's in a relatively boozhwah neighborhood
ajjohnstone wrote: But so
ajjohnstone
Well I think historically there's not so much reason to react to the Welsh and they probably do sing better. And they probably don't sing songs about the IRA etc
Also there are always loads of England fans so it's easy enough to find a few and knock them about and feel tough, which is a fair chiunk of being a football hooligan isn't it? I've read a bit and for all the mythologising it is basically about the fun of fighting and bragging rights.
I didn't mean the tartan army, I meant the ones (usually Ranger iirc) who travel with England for the fighting.
A couple of things. I think
A couple of things. I think the french side showed a bit of class in the opening game, but not enough to win a tournament.
I think the 'violence' between the English supporters and French police is a cultural thing. The french police use tear gas as a first choice. Against french people that might work, maybe they will disperse, run away and form to fight another day. Against British people that kind of thing is an insult, and we will stand strong and hold our ground.. As a small island nation we don't have anywhere else to go.
I think the England match was good and positive. There was no one in the team who could have reached that ball to stop the russians scoring. All it showed me was how well the team played and closed down the russian national team for most of the match.
Quote: I think the 'violence'
This sounds exactly those parody tweets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hayder_alKhoei/status/741659456526815232
(No subject)
noslavery: Quote: The
noslavery:
I really think football could be a beautiful game in the future but competition is inherently ugly.
Quote: Against french people
Essentialists bollocks. In any case, it's not like the French run from teargas. Did the summit hopping thing back when and the French were used to it.
Sleeper wrote: Against french
Sleeper
What the fuck??? For someone who calls yourself an anarchist, you're a bit free with your national stereotypes.
Wojtek, the parody tweets are nicely spotted :D
And those proud decent Brits
And those proud decent Brits wouldn't have disgraced us by trying to bunk the train to France either.
Except out of the tournament at an early stage.
Sleeper man, wtf is going on
Sleeper man, wtf is going on with your recent posts? It ain't good I'm telling ya.
I couldn't help but laugh at
I couldn't help but laugh at the news of Russian football fans attacking their English rivals... I don't quite comprehend soccer culture (sic) over here and... I was just imagining that these foozballs are Putin's elite hooligan corps or something? What the hell is this ridiculousness? Couldn't help laughing!
Ed opined: Too many Spurs
Ed opined: Too many Spurs players, imo.
A clear case of left wing anti-semitism.
Alf wins the lolz of the day.
Alf wins the lolz of the day.
Khawaga wrote: Alf wins the
Khawaga
I guess so but Factvalues pics are er, pretty good value too.
Alf wrote: Ed opined: Too
Alf
Got a genuine lol out of me..
(No subject)
And yet I've been proven
And yet I've been proven correct again. The russian hooligans were fast moving, in and out, and very few arrests. The local french lads again in and out and know the streets, very few arrests. The english, trying to stand there ground, throw a few bottles and get arrested.
I thought the Italians were good last night. There wasn't much expectation on them, especially from their national media, and they played so well. That volley was superb.
Noah Fence
So basically you're saying
So basically you're saying English hooligans are idiots? Makes sense.
ajjohnstone wrote: In other
ajjohnstone
Are they really hated more than any other fans? I don't particularly like football fans of any national team, its too male and associated with jingoism and hooliganism for my liking.
Also it was nice of them to
Also it was nice of them to give passing mention of the 'industrial action' going on in Paris, although they basically said people were sick of it and needed the football to take there minds of everything.
This is why I hate events like this, it glorifies whatever nation its held in whilst they are screwing people over.
If that's what you get from
If that's what you get from it, that's what you get from it.
Khawaga
At least it makes more sense
At least it makes more sense than your stiff upper lip nationalist bollocks.
Quote: And yet I've been
English football hooliganism was never the same after Millwall fans started popping pills.
Schmoopie wrote: Quote: And
Schmoopie
Same with West Ham. I remember being at Upton Park and watching the thug section all hugging each other. I liked it at the time but now I'm not so sure.
It's all bullshit. In my
It's all bullshit. In my hoolie days, we had a lot more class than these Ingerland knobheads. Young Serge was in this lot somewhere... and the voiceovers were much posher in them days :D
[youtube]KShbjJ5_xws[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/KShbjJ5_xws
Fortunately, I grew up and became an anarchist.
sleeper wrote: And yet I've
sleeper
No, wrong again - you stood to attention and said;
Yet your "we" of this supposed 'plucky island race' didn't "stand strong and hold our ground" but got battered, gassed, nicked & dispersed on the streets and immediately legged it from the Russians on the terraces.
Serge Forward wrote: It's all
Serge Forward
Hang on, are you saying you're not English? If so, get the fuck off the forums.
Nah mate. Republic of
Nah mate. Republic of Mancunia.
I'll let you off then. Didn't
I'll let you off then.
Didn't notice the vid. Stupid new phone won't display embedded videos. Clicked the link and there it was, the seventies. Luverly.
(No subject)
The end of the next bit of
The end of the next bit of that video is ace. Eeee... I remember it like yesterday...
[youtube]jN9djmp_sjk[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN9djmp_sjk
Then I gave up being a scrote and got into libertarian communism instead.
anarchist Iceland?
anarchist Iceland?
I think we may have written
I think we may have written off the English a little prematurely. Major disturbances have been reported in Lille last night.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ne
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/england-fans-accused-of-mocking-refugee-children-in-france-as-th/
Quote: http://www.telegraph.c
The Daily Telegraph accusing others of mocking refugees. Now that is rich.
As a second generation Welsh
As a second generation Welsh immigrant I'll be supporting Wales for now :-)
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!