Why I Am No Longer Vegetarian

Until recently, I was Vegetarian. Then, I had a flare up of Ulcerative Colitis. I started bleeding from the arse and had uncontrollable diarrhea, basically I was shitting blood- alot of blood- and became weak and very ill, to the point where It was obvious that I needed to urgently get to hospital. I came out of hospital after a week but my condition got worse again and I had to go back, and this time spent a much longer time in there.
I was so ill that I became anaemic and needed a blood transfusion, which still in the end was not enough to get rid of the anaemia. The doctors and nurses suggested that, as iron tablets would upset my stomach and my already very fragile condition- that I should eat red meat as it was the best and most immediate source of iron. They especially recommended Pigs Liver (which is very cheap) and Steak (which is not so cheap). Since then I have been eating meat, but do hope one day, after my new, revolutionary treatment- infliximab (which has been amazing and has prevented me from needing a stoma bag) to go back to being vegetarian- but eating meat has greatly improved the quality of my health. Also, I needed to be strong enough to have the brilliant, new infliximab treatment. Now I am strong enough to take iron tablets, but am not in remission yet so am still eating meat and avoiding high fibre foods.

And so...?

Battlescarred wrote: And

[quote=Battlescarred]And so

...this poster has probably been badly advised. There is a shit load of iron in veggies and pulses and they have the advantage of containing loads of fibre too which is vital to the n the digestive system.

Noah Fence

[quote=Noah Fence]Battlescarred

And so

...this poster has probably been badly advised. There is a shit load of iron in veggies and pulses and they have the advantage of containing loads of fibre too which is vital to the n the digestive system.

Lol, not so Noah- I am to avoid fibre at all costs. I needed, and probably still need the haemoglobin from red meat, and fast- that is not found in veggies, many of which contain high levels of fibre, same with pulses. I was very ill and at risk of losing my bowel. Ulcerative Colitis is an immflamatory bowel disease. It wasn't bad advise Noah, it was the only sensible advise. Did you not read my post? I said that iron tablets would have made me worse.

Battlescarred wrote: And

Battlescarred

And so...?

How compassionate. And so... contary to the views of some on here, eating meat can be necessary. I do hope to go back to being veggie but meat has helped me a great deal.

heme iron which is found in

heme iron which is found in meat, and not vegetables is more bio available than none heme iron and helps with the absorption of none heme iron

Heme iron has higher bioavailability than nonheme iron, and other dietary components have less effect on the bioavailability of heme than nonheme iron [3,4]. The bioavailability of iron is approximately 14% to 18% from mixed diets that include substantial amounts of meat, seafood, and vitamin C (ascorbic acid, which enhances the bioavailability of nonheme iron) and 5% to 12% from vegetarian diets [2,4]. In addition to ascorbic acid, meat, poultry, and seafood can enhance nonheme iron absorption, whereas phytate (present in grains and beans) and certain polyphenols in some non-animal foods (such as cereals and legumes) have the opposite effect [4]. Unlike other inhibitors of iron absorption, calcium might reduce the bioavailability of both nonheme and heme iron. However, the effects of enhancers and inhibitors of iron absorption are attenuated by a typical mixed western diet, so they have little effect on most people’s iron status.

from https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/

hope you recover soon potrokin :)

i'm guessing you also have to avoid tea and coffee?

Well, I've never heard of

Well, I've never heard of anyone ever having to eat meat to cure a disease. If I'm wrong hands up but it seems unlikely that there isn't another way. Regardless of that I hope it gets sorted soon and you're not in too much pain/discomfort.

radicalgraffiti wrote: heme

radicalgraffiti

heme iron which is found in meat, and not vegetables is more bio available than none heme iron and helps with the absorption of none heme iron

Heme iron has higher bioavailability than nonheme iron, and other dietary components have less effect on the bioavailability of heme than nonheme iron [3,4]. The bioavailability of iron is approximately 14% to 18% from mixed diets that include substantial amounts of meat, seafood, and vitamin C (ascorbic acid, which enhances the bioavailability of nonheme iron) and 5% to 12% from vegetarian diets [2,4]. In addition to ascorbic acid, meat, poultry, and seafood can enhance nonheme iron absorption, whereas phytate (present in grains and beans) and certain polyphenols in some non-animal foods (such as cereals and legumes) have the opposite effect [4]. Unlike other inhibitors of iron absorption, calcium might reduce the bioavailability of both nonheme and heme iron. However, the effects of enhancers and inhibitors of iron absorption are attenuated by a typical mixed western diet, so they have little effect on most people’s iron status.

from https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/

hope you recover soon potrokin :)

i'm guessing you also have to avoid tea and coffee?

Thankyou. Well they did recommend avoiding coffee for a while and tea does kinda block iron absorbtion to some degree. Vitamin C is good for iron absortion though.

Noah Fence wrote: Well, I've

Noah Fence

Well, I've never heard of anyone ever having to eat meat to cure a disease. If I'm wrong hands up but it seems unlikely that there isn't another way. Regardless of that I hope it gets sorted soon and you're not in too much pain/discomfort.

It's not a cure. There is no cure for Ulcerative Colitis at the moment, just the brilliant treatment, infliximab. I needed haemoglogin, as radicalgraffitti explained and I needed to become stronger. I guess haemoglobin is the cure for anaemia though but I will always be at risk of having another flare up after my treatment. Thankyou for you're concern and wishes of wellness though.

This doesn't address the iron

This doesn't address the iron deficiency but may be of some interest.

https://youtu.be/3mWHBuFPtPA

One piece of info I was given

One piece of info I was given was that Ulcerative Colitis manifests in people who have given up smoking. Apparently, some studies have indicated that nicotine patches may help deal with symptoms of the disease, which is also an auto-immune disease. However it's not known for sure yet wether nicotine patches are a viable treatment, it's very early on.

Some trust in doctors, some

Some trust in doctors, some in psychiatrists; I put my trust in the wisdom of old. If you believe what these doctors and nurses advise you I wish you luck. Having worked in Healthcare for several years and having seen some of the travesties carried out (ECT, unnecessary injections into the spinal chord, dangerous drugs being administered...) on patients I am utterly cynical.

Whatever float your boat - I

Whatever float your boat - I support you :-) Remember your health is very important

FWIW, I heard that anemia

FWIW, I heard that anemia increased significantly after Americans stopped cooking in cast iron skillets. A quick google search seems to suggest there's some truth to this.

Anyway, just waiting for this thread to come to its inevitable conclusion.....

Chilli Sauce wrote: FWIW, I

Chilli Sauce

FWIW, I heard that anemia increased significantly after Americans stopped cooking in cast iron skillets. A quick google search seems to suggest there's some truth to this.

Anyway, just waiting for this thread to come to its inevitable conclusion.....

Aw Chilli, why so cynical? You must be getting old comrade. I reckon you need a banana and Tennents Super smoothie to put you right!

Quote: I heard that anemia

I heard that anemia increased significantly after Americans stopped cooking in cast iron skillets.

Good knowledge and not just for the immediate health benefits. I have an iron skillet and I hope that it will last for many generations to come. Prior to that I have got through countless modern frying pans; and they all buckle over high temperatures.

Schmoopie wrote: Quote: I

Schmoopie

I heard that anemia increased significantly after Americans stopped cooking in cast iron skillets.

Good knowledge and not just for the immediate health benefits. I have an iron skillet and I hope that it will last for many generations to come. Prior to that I have got through countless modern frying pans; and they all buckle over high temperatures.

Schmoopie - you got a pm.

I don't and never have had an iron skillet and am tested once a month for Iron and B12 deficiency. Not once have I ever been low. Just one person though.

yikes! get well

yikes! get well soon.

potrokin

They especially recommended Pigs Liver (which is very cheap) and Steak (which is not so cheap).

pig's liver is cheap, but not ime nearly as tasty as calves' liver. and it is possible to get cheapish cuts of steak, though the cheaper the fattier usually.

/i was raised on red meat and fowl by a farm mum who used to regale me with stories about how she learned to murder turkeys and pigs when she was my age. i was given little iron pills too. i didn't lack for energy.

Potrokin, I am sorry about

Potrokin, I am sorry about your medical emergency. It sounds terrifying. In my opinion you were right to follow the advice of eating animal liver as an emergency measure.

I don't have an opinion on the ethics of meat eating but I do have an interest in nutrition and read up on it quite a lot. Also my roommate/friend/comrade is a (vocal) vegan so I've looked into this aspect of nutrition.

Vegetarianism (approached a certain way) puts one at risk for anemia in ways that veganism does not. Dairy and eggs decrease iron absorption. It's common for vegetarians to load up on cheese, so this puts them at risk. Calcium supplements can have the same iron inhibiting effect, so if you were taking these with meals (rather than between meals) that could contribute as well.

On the other hand, the vitamin C that is plentiful in fruits and veggies and the lysine in legumes (beans, lentils, peas, peanuts, tofu) aid the absorption of iron. Bread, pasta, and other grain products are usually fortified with iron in most Western countries.

Vegans tend to eat more fruits, veg, legumes, and grain products than cheese-centric and egg-centric vegetarians. So, by comparison, they get more iron absorbing benefits and avoid the iron blocking effects of dairy and eggs. Vegetarians who go light on the eggs and dairy will also see similar benefits.

And no matter your diet, watch out for excesses in coffee, tea (black, green, many herbals) as they also inhibit iron absorption. Also watch out for an excess of grapes, red wine, bran, chocolate/cocoa, red and purple rice.

Here are a few decent articles with more info: http://www.nutritionmd.org/health_care_providers/hematology/ironanemia_nutrition.html and http://veganhealth.org/articles/iron and https://vegcharlottenc.com/2014/01/27/vegans-and-anemia-the-myths-the-shocking-truth/

I mention all this not to push you in a particular direction. But I imagine if you had reasons that made you want to be a vegetarian in the past, they may still be important to you. If so, you can use this info to help you return to that choice safely. If the cause no longer matters to you, perhaps there are others here who will benefit from this information.

Be well and take care of yourself and each other.

People often assume that the

People often assume that the anemia is caused by bad diet but by far the most common cause is blood loss, which is why it is why people who menstruate are more prone to it. Ulcerated colitis causes bleeding. (I only know this because one of my twitter mutuals has UC and anemia is a problem for him and there are a lot of things which are generally iron-rich which he cannot eat because they cause flare-ups.)

Potrotkin:

I'm very sorry that you are suffering from this condition, from what I understand it is extremely unpleasant and distressing. I hope that it improves soon and that you can find a way to manage it.

Fleur wrote: People often

Fleur

People often assume that the anemia is caused by bad diet but by far the most common cause is blood loss, which is why it is why people who menstruate are more prone to it. Ulcerated colitis causes bleeding.

Oh, so it was ulcerated colitis (and its bleeding) causing the anemia, rather than the anemia causing the ulcerated colitis?

In that case, the video Noah Fence linked to may be of use? (I didn't watch it but it's on the topic of treating ulcerated colitis with diet, for those who didn't click the link.)

Edit: I don't know why when I read the OP I interpreted it as saying that anemia caused the U.C., but this was never actually stated. My mistake.

seahorse wrote: Potrokin, I

seahorse

Potrokin, I am sorry about your medical emergency. It sounds terrifying. In my opinion you were right to follow the advice of eating animal liver as an emergency measure.

I don't have an opinion on the ethics of meat eating but I do have an interest in nutrition and read up on it quite a lot. Also my roommate/friend/comrade is a (vocal) vegan so I've looked into this aspect of nutrition.

Vegetarianism (approached a certain way) puts one at risk for anemia in ways that veganism does not. Dairy and eggs decrease iron absorption. It's common for vegetarians to load up on cheese, so this puts them at risk. Calcium supplements can have the same iron inhibiting effect, so if you were taking these with meals (rather than between meals) that could contribute as well.

On the other hand, the vitamin C that is plentiful in fruits and veggies and the lysine in legumes (beans, lentils, peas, peanuts, tofu) aid the absorption of iron. Bread, pasta, and other grain products are usually fortified with iron in most Western countries.

Vegans tend to eat more fruits, veg, legumes, and grain products than cheese-centric and egg-centric vegetarians. So, by comparison, they get more iron absorbing benefits and avoid the iron blocking effects of dairy and eggs. Vegetarians who go light on the eggs and dairy will also see similar benefits.

And no matter your diet, watch out for excesses in coffee, tea (black, green, many herbals) as they also inhibit iron absorption. Also watch out for an excess of grapes, red wine, bran, chocolate/cocoa, red and purple rice.

Here are a few decent articles with more info: http://www.nutritionmd.org/health_care_providers/hematology/ironanemia_nutrition.html and http://veganhealth.org/articles/iron and https://vegcharlottenc.com/2014/01/27/vegans-and-anemia-the-myths-the-shocking-truth/

I mention all this not to push you in a particular direction. But I imagine if you had reasons that made you want to be a vegetarian in the past, they may still be important to you. If so, you can use this info to help you return to that choice safely. If the cause no longer matters to you, perhaps there are others here who will benefit from this information.

Be well and take care of yourself and each other.

Thankyou. It's funny you should mention calcium because I need to take these large tablets called Adcal, containing calcium, that you have to chew, as because of my disease I am deficient in it. Yeah, as a veggie I was eating alot of cheese and I like milk too. When I was really bad and under weight, they said I should drink plenty of full fat milk to regain weight though.

Noah Fence wrote: This

Noah Fence

This doesn't address the iron deficiency but may be of some interest.

https://youtu.be/3mWHBuFPtPA

That is interesting , thankyou.

Fleur wrote: People often

Fleur

People often assume that the anemia is caused by bad diet but by far the most common cause is blood loss, which is why it is why people who menstruate are more prone to it. Ulcerated colitis causes bleeding. (I only know this because one of my twitter mutuals has UC and anemia is a problem for him and there are a lot of things which are generally iron-rich which he cannot eat because they cause flare-ups.)

Potrotkin:

I'm very sorry that you are suffering from this condition, from what I understand it is extremely unpleasant and distressing. I hope that it improves soon and that you can find a way to manage it.

Thanks. Yeah, I believe it was the blood loss, I was losing alot of blood which was a real worry. The whole thing was a nightmare and at one point I was worried that I had Crohns disease. Being in hospital was awful and often very boring. The NHS staff were great though to be fair, as were the paramedics who took me to hospital, and my girlfriend was great at looking after me and being there for me so I'm very lucky really. My health has improved a great deal compared to how I was. I just hope I don't have to go through it all again one day, but theres no sense in worrying about that.

I was hospitalized last year

I was hospitalized last year with severe anemia from blood loss and required two units of blood for my transfusion. To get my hemoglobin levels back to within normal limits, I took an iron pill prescribed by my physician as well as liquid plant-based iron supplement (no fiber). I also ate three to five medjool dates every day (medium fiber). Dried fruit, especially raisins, are high in assimilable iron, as are sea vegetables (higher fiber). My acupuncturist of course suggested red meat, but I refused. She also recommended cooking in a cast iron skillet, which I did. Broths made from pulses and legumes also work well, and have almost no fiber. There are always alternatives to eating meat. Mainstream health care providers are lazy and pass that laziness on to their patients. They are also too often worried about liability/malpractice to suggest treatment options that cater to a patient's individual desires and choices. My iron level was stabilized to within the normal range within four months.

My body runs on sugar and

My body runs on sugar and caffeine and a slice of insanity

Quote: Mainstream health care

Mainstream health care providers are lazy and pass that laziness on to their patients.

And I would add that they are bound by the dominant ideology and part of this is the centrality of meat production.

My body runs on sugar and caffeine and a slice of insanity

Presumably this is not a recommendation for others to follow.

Black Badger wrote: I was

Black Badger

I was hospitalized last year with severe anemia from blood loss and required two units of blood for my transfusion. To get my hemoglobin levels back to within normal limits, I took an iron pill prescribed by my physician as well as liquid plant-based iron supplement (no fiber). I also ate three to five medjool dates every day (medium fiber). Dried fruit, especially raisins, are high in assimilable iron, as are sea vegetables (higher fiber). My acupuncturist of course suggested red meat, but I refused. She also recommended cooking in a cast iron skillet, which I did. Broths made from pulses and legumes also work well, and have almost no fiber. There are always alternatives to eating meat. Mainstream health care providers are lazy and pass that laziness on to their patients. They are also too often worried about liability/malpractice to suggest treatment options that cater to a patient's individual desires and choices. My iron level was stabilized to within the normal range within four months.

Good for you. As I already explained, iron tablets would have upset my stomach and made me worse, and I needed the heamoglobin from meat. I'm no expert but I don't you can get haeomoglobin from iron tablets. Lol mainstream eh? Not all of us can afford an acupuncturist y'know and personally I prefer to rely on medical science rather than 'alternative' nonsense.

potrokin wrote: Black Badger

potrokin

Black Badger

I was hospitalized last year with severe anemia from blood loss and required two units of blood for my transfusion. To get my hemoglobin levels back to within normal limits, I took an iron pill prescribed by my physician as well as liquid plant-based iron supplement (no fiber). I also ate three to five medjool dates every day (medium fiber). Dried fruit, especially raisins, are high in assimilable iron, as are sea vegetables (higher fiber). My acupuncturist of course suggested red meat, but I refused. She also recommended cooking in a cast iron skillet, which I did. Broths made from pulses and legumes also work well, and have almost no fiber. There are always alternatives to eating meat. Mainstream health care providers are lazy and pass that laziness on to their patients. They are also too often worried about liability/malpractice to suggest treatment options that cater to a patient's individual desires and choices. My iron level was stabilized to within the normal range within four months.

Good for you. As I already explained, iron tablets would have upset my stomach and made me worse, and I needed the heamoglobin from meat. I'm no expert but I don't think you can get haeomoglobin from iron tablets. Lol mainstream eh? Not all of us can afford an acupuncturist or a physician y'know and personally I prefer to rely on medical science rather than 'alternative' nonsense.

Potrotkin - acupuncture is

Potrotkin - acupuncture is not 'alternative' nonsense. It is a tried and tested approach to health that yealds excellent results. It is widely used within the NHS too if that's you're measure of credibility.
Although I have entrusted my health to the NHS(well mostly!) who have and continue to treat me with an almost unbelievable level of care and compassion, don't forget that much research is funded by uber capitalist pharmaceutical corporations who are hardly to be trusted. Small scale research should not be dismissed because they don't have the backing of big business - that would be a very silly approach to take.

Quote: Potrotkin -

Potrotkin - acupuncture is not 'alternative' nonsense.

Although until recently cynical of acupuncture, a fellow cynic recently gave me his own anecdotal evidence of the efficacy of the acupuncture treatment he received from his GP.

My sister used to use

My sister used to use acupuncture to help with her hay fever. She’d stick a silver needle into the side of her knee, twist it and the symptoms would disappear for months. She no longer needs to do this as there is a one-off jab now, which appears to have sorted the problem.

It’s worth remembering that acupuncture is very widely used in China. There it is ‘mainstream’.

Blackstrap molasses is a good

Blackstrap molasses is a good & cheap source of calcium & iron as well as other minerals; http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5573/2

Noah Fence wrote: Potrotkin -

Noah Fence

Potrotkin - acupuncture is not 'alternative' nonsense. It is a tried and tested approach to health that yealds excellent results. It is widely used within the NHS too if that's you're measure of credibility.
Although I have entrusted my health to the NHS(well mostly!) who have and continue to treat me with an almost unbelievable level of care and compassion, don't forget that much research is funded by uber capitalist pharmaceutical corporations who are hardly to be trusted. Small scale research should not be dismissed because they don't have the backing of big business - that would be a very silly approach to take.

Well ok ,fair enough, but as I have already stated I needed to eat low fibre foods, and still do. Also, Radicalgraffitti already explained about heme iron and the fact that it can be found only in meat.

I really don't think any

I really don't think any 'health' arguments are, or ever have, gotten anywhere in the vegan debate ala libcom. Basically, it has been made clear in past threads that ethnographically, our species of human is quite capable of surviving and thriving on a wide variety of diets, some almost exclusively based on the consumption of raw red meat and some based on veggies and vital supplements. 'Natural diet' arguments then, are fundamentally stupid.

This back and forth about this poor persons medical condition and their doctor's suggestions is quite silly - red meat helped them get back on their feet. Maybe it wasn't neccessary, maybe it was, either way, they fucking got better and it makes no big dif. in the whole vegan argument.

In a past thread, started by ultraviolet I believe, I really pressed for the underpinning of the vegan-partisans argument. Having dispensed with arguments surrounding health and so forth, they revealed that it is largely based on a belief that eating meat is morally / ethically inappropriate for humans due to a near religious prerogative to not kill other animals. Personally, I think such a belief is perfectly fine (it is far from religiously enshrined homophobia and so forth) in so far as the person who holds it understands that it is personal and not broadly applicable. I believe the main source of acrimony on the vegan threads has been a feeling that the vegan-partisans are proselytizing - and I think if they take a good hard look at their posts they would realize such and perhaps understand the subsequent negative reactions.

Booze - you'll hear no

Booze - you'll hear no arguments from me, I'm no longer vegan. I saw a YouTube video that said if you stick a banana in your ass you get the ability to fly. Now I'm in the hospital with 2 broken legs! The problem I have now is that by eating animal products I'll no longer be able to look down on meat eaters as my moral and spiritual inferiors which was of course the main reason for my dietary choice.
So I'm now a breatharian which has done wonders for my bank balance after being on that incredibly expensive vegan diet. I'm not sure what health miracles my new found breatharianism will furnish me with but I can tell you it's very good for weight loss.