Just a quick rant at the white left’s ignorance and snobbery towards the white underclass/working class. There seems to be this naïve thinking amongst left leaning liberals and radicals that ignorance is the main reason behind the violent upsurge in angry white poor men. If we class shame them a little bit more. If we read them an Owen Jones article before bed time. Then fascism and the far right will be defeated. We can all go back to posting on facebook how much wankerer the Tories are than Jeremy Corbyn.
Whilst the rich owned media has a role to play in this, we need to get real too if we’re going to face up to the violence that white society breeds internally and externally. I hate the word white, I don’t believe in it, but I’ve been claimed by it and like my non-white brothers and sisters I don’t have a choice, that is how I’m seen and treated.
Having lived among angry poor white men for a large part of my life, the idea of politicians and the media alone stirring up this shit, is wel....bullshit. Angry poor white men are consciously choosing fascism / the far right. European capitalism and settler capitalism used to love up the poor white man. He would get the bone as long as he went to war or did the dirty work for his master. Neo-liberalism still love’s up the poor white man at election time, when it fancies a war and when it thinks people should chew on their opium instead of getting the fuck free. However, it doesn’t need the white man anymore, not like it used to anyway.
The poor white man no longer falls under the protectorate of white privilege, he is as disposable as the non-whites. Both parties on the left and right of capitalism are driving the poor white man (they’ve already driven the women there) to the global South. To have your own inner colony is the goal of most capitalist states. The less the people will work for, the better, for the rich. The angry poor white man isn’t as stupid as hipster radicals think he is. He’s trying to get himself the fuck back under that roof of white protection that the middle class white men and women are still under. That same roof that people will risk drowning in the Mediterranean to get under. That roof that shelters the radical anarchist with access to the the safety net of capitalism should they need to jump political ship, when shit gets real. The poor white man is shit scared of poverty, angry, abandoned and isolated, he wants back in from the cold.
The security that white capitalism used to give the poor white man, a trade, a welfare-state, healthcare, education - ray tay tay - is all being rolled back. These are desperate times. For the angry white man that can’t see beyond government and money, his best bet in his eyes, is to bring the old racism back. The one that favours them and treats them as the house servant again, instead of the house slave or field slave.
In their eyes if they can force the elite to go back to the old school racism of fucking everyone and everything over, but giving the poor people that look like them, a slightly better deal than everyone else who’s getting dicked, they’ll take it. Fuck me less hard than them and I’m yours, sir. Fascism pretends it’s revolutionary but it is nothing of the sort, it is rich and poor on crack, it’s just the poor that look like their masters get paid to be the security class. There’s no freedom in fascism, you just get a policeman’s wage for being white and a snitch to the ruling class. You climb one rung on the ladder from poor to the ‘pig’ class.
The angry poor white man is stuck in the no man’s land between poverty, real poverty and white protection. Given the choice fascism v poverty, some of these angry white men, want to be Hitler’s blue eyed, blonde haired boy. If we really want to defeat fascism we have to defeat poverty and we have to do this on the turf where this toxic sludge of white inequality is being spread. Otherwise we’re, doomed to more and more anti-fa marches and facebook class shaming orgies of our brothers and sisters.
If angry poor white men think that their only solution is neo-liberalism or the far right we’re fucked. There are other solutions beyond government and beyond money. In fact in the history of white-land, it was the angry poor white man that used to fight the hardest for these. We should resist fascism with every last drop of breath we have, but we should resist capitalism with the same and we don’t do this by ostracising anyone who isn’t a hipster leftie.
We need solidarity right now and we aren’t going to get that from a middle class white man unfriending a working class white man for being racist. The white community needs to sort its shit out, this is how you become a real ally to the oppressed. It is possibly what Malcom X meant when he told us honky’s to work for change in our own hoods. The middle classes and the upper classes have created the economic conditions for the far right to re-emerge. If the angry poor white man saw the radical move, from under the roof of white privilege and camp out with them in no man’s land as well as the non-whites in cannon fodder land, they might find their politics gain more respect. The hipster radical or liberal is very good at stepping out of their intellectual borders but not so good at stepping out of their social ones.
My experience of angry white poor neighbourhoods is that they never have have been and never will be fascist, they have fascist voices and they’re usually pretty loud and violent but these cats have no respect or say, they’re not reflective of the whole neighbourhood, just nobody is listening to the other voices. Fascism like its brother capitalism is a dead ideology. I remember one guy from Combat 18 doing military drills in arctic camouflage in the middle of the woods, on his own, everyone else kicking a ball around laughing and saying to each other ‘Man'z a dick’ I’ve seen grandfathers who were in the National Front learn to hold their mixed race grandson in their hands. I’ve seen white educated anti-racists move their phone when a black man gets on the bus, I’ve seen uneducated white racist women defend a Yemenese mother from deportation.
We’re not who we think we are.
There are those of us who live under the roof of white privilege, those of us who’ve just been kicked out from under it and those who are mercilessly exploited and killed by it in their thousands. To throw stones at those who’ve just been kicked out for throwing stones at those who have never been allowed in, is to miss the point. Keep your eye on the prize beautiful people, turn around and let’s smash something else instead of each other.
Sorry if this is a bit sweary.
hmmmmm.... Quote: That roof
hmmmmm....
Do you really think this applies to most readers of libcom? I mean, the site is a fucking beacon against the sort of sheltered, activisty shit many of us first experienced as the "anarchist movement". Most regular posters have pretty regular jobs and even those in traditionally more white collar positions are experiencing increased precarity in the workplace and in other aspects of our lives.
So, in America, social democratic provisions definitely have racist elements (what groups are excluded from NLRA provisions, for example) but, on the whole, women and people of color are far more likely to benefit from the limited welfare programs that do exist.
More the point, why ignore the serious fights and struggles - often multi-racial - that led to programs in the first place?
To whatever extent imperialist states decided to buy off the nominally more privileged sections of their working classes, it didn't come out of nowhere. It was a response to class struggle - and class struggle in major urban centers, which often means areas with large minority populations. I live in New York, one of the cities with some of the "best" welfare provisions in the country and whites make up less than 50% of the population.
Again, none of this is to dismiss white racism, but I really don't think reality is nearly as clear cut and conscious as the narrative you've presented above.
Ey up Chilli Sauce No my ire
Ey up Chilli Sauce
No my ire wasn't directed at the Libcom reader. This is why I posted it here, it's more directed at the left in general and the trendy anarchist/radicals that seem to be class shaming rather than accepting that some white working class men have chosen fascism after weighing up their options not cos they're pig ignorant.
As people working to destroy fascism and her brother capitalism, I think fighting the media is secondary to actually fighting the poverty that makes fascism or right wing authoritarianism make sense for those white people that have fallen out of favour with the man. Smashing the social borders that isolate the middle class white from the poor whites I think is where we should be directing our attention, then the elite media's can say what they like if we have some class solidarity up in the place, we're good out here.
Precarious work is still a little bit different to no work though and having the buffer of middle class elders in your life with access to shelter, property and some wealth does make a difference. The fear of abject poverty coupled with the exclusion from a system that white working class people in the UK anyway experience is very frightening.
I felt like I did give a shout out to the class struggle that did fight for gains but appreciate this might not be clear. Yes, it's not as clear cut as I make out, there are also differences between European and European settler states in terms of racist layering, the nature of whiteness is changing, some of the gains were won by class struggle, some by fear of class struggle and some by co-opting or divide and rule. However, the white poor man has under globalisation moved from his masters side to within kicking range of his masters foot.
We need to engage and break down the class divisions that split the middle classes from the white working/lower classes if we're to fight the fash, at the moment I feel too many people are venting at the media and dismissing the poor white mans struggle as ignorant racism rather than seeing the pain and suffering that leads to poor whites choosing fascism.
We have to work out ways beyond capital and beyond social nationalism that improve the lives of all and we have to take these ideas to the streets, else we ain't changing nowt in my mind. It's late tho n I'm prolly not making much sense now....so will stop.
Chilli Sauce wrote: So, in
Chilli Sauce
Chilli, what do you mean by this?
Which part, Fingers? On the
Which part, Fingers?
On the first, certain groups - agricultural workers or domestic workers, for example - are excluded from the protection offered in the National Labor Relations Act. These are also the same industries that are/were traditionally black. This was done explicitly to appease southern Democrats in FDR's New Deal coalition.
For the second, women (single mothers in particular) and people of color are, proportionally, more likely to be poor and, then, more likely to make use of social housing, Medicaid, Head Start, etc.
More generally, I was trying to counter this idea that welfare programs only exist to buy off the white working class men which, given which demographics are most likely to use, defend, push to expand those social programs, I just don't think is true.
Ok, now I understand the
Ok, now I understand the point better. Thanks.
Doesn't the repetition of the
Doesn't the repetition of the classifications, 'white', 'poor' and 'middle class' just serve to reinforce those classifications? As proletarians are we not all Black, impoverished and working class?
Quote: As proletarians are we
So, this is true - a tautology, in fact.
As to whether we're all "Black [and] impoverished", that's just clearly not true. Ignoring the stratification within the working class is precisely what reinforces not only those "classifications" but, more importantly, the oppression of those marginalized groups.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you do realize your statement is only a step away from "All Lives Matter"?
Chilli me olde mucker I did
Chilli me olde mucker I did say the security that the state used to give the poor white man is being rolled back. Welfare was one only part of this, the poor white man got a bit of a better package than the poor white woman and men and women of colour. White male privilege and welfare is a different package to welfare, racism and sexism. This was and is divide and rule by the state. It is this package which is being attacked by neo-liberalism and in my mind the poor white men that are turning to fascism see this as their best method to get the package back.
I've read countless articles from those on the left of capital and radical sources talk about the ignorance of the poor white man (maybe in coded language) and in some cases even asking for authoritarian responses from the state. I've seen very little empathy and understanding of the economic conditions and unique position the poor white man has and no longer holds within capitalism. He didn't just read the Sun and think right 'Britain First' or listen to Fox news and thnk right where do I sign up for the "minutemen".
The poor white man has a long and proud history of standing up to the oppressor and we should be looking at that history as well as being real and recognising the prejudice that was within the labour movement. The role of those white people who still enjoy the protection of white suremacy, that the poor white man doesn't, in my mind isn't too scream abuse at their white brother, but to roll their sleeves up let go of their privilege and try and break down some of these barriers that do divide and conquer the proleteriat.
I agree though Chilli....in terms of discussing whether welfare was something won by class struggle or given by the elite to avoid class war or a bit of both, probably needs better analysis. My main point was the urgent need to compete with the ideaology of fascism rather than naively thinking with a snobbery lens that stupid people are fascist, which a lot of my comrades at least seem to be saying of late, maybe I need to keep better company.
Schmoopie have a gander at this, one of the best articles I've seen on class and colour. Especially the notion of de-classed peoples and how often the white left wants to divide the spoils of white plunder equally amongst people as opposed to stopping white plunder.
https://onkwehonwerising.wordpress.com/2016/05/16/decolonization-is-not-a-metaphor-the-basics-of-a-genuine-anti-colonial-position/
The use of the word white is heavily charged and whiteness is changing, again I don't have time to do that justice but as I tried to say at the beginning (speaking as a member of the white community) it doesn't matter what I think I am in terms of identity, we've been claimed as white and until we can dissolve white supremacy, we're still the honky out here, even if we call out other honky's for being moreracist fookers than us.
Sorry one more point then
Sorry one more point then I'll STFU and grind me shift out for the man....
In terms of fighting fascism, fascism wants to create a special place in a brutal society reserved for the white man. It doesn't want or aspire for the white male to be free, it just wants to create a police class, where the white male is the bouncer.
Libcom/Anarchism/Anti-authoritarianism (w/e we call it) offers full frontal freedom for all, our dream is bigger than fascism's dream, we've got a rate good package and this is what we need to be screaming louder than 'f.ck you, you, illiterate fat, beer bellied, racist chav'.
In'it.
Not sure if this is what 2W
Not sure if this is what 2W is getting at but his post did make me think of this awful poster..
Ouch. Yeah that looks like
Ouch. Yeah that looks like the polite version of:
'f.ck you, you, illiterate fat, beer bellied, racist chav'.
Quote: Ignoring the
I'm not ignoring the 'stratification': I'm telling you and him that it is a figment of your imagination.
Schmoopie
Schmoopie
you saying racism sexism homophobia and differences in wealth don't exist?
Who's him? We're not all
Who's him?
We're not all oppressed equally Schmoopz.
2 W wrote: white working
2 W
They're not weighing up jack shit if they choose to side with fascism. Thomas Mair has been described as well read, trouble is he read all the wrong books.
Which would pose the question
Which would pose the question why aren’t they weighing up jack shit? I would have loved to just read books that flatter my own political views but other people with different views forced me into reading articles, books from their stupid standpoints, I had to earn my politics, through a tumultuous sea of guardian articles, popular pacifism for privileged people, liberal lefty shatttery and right wing football terraces.
Where are the visible dissenting voices from poor white males that see alternatives to authoritarianism and fascism? Why are labour’s rank and file defecting/defecating to UKIP instead of liberatory movements? Why do people see voting for pickled gonads from the cancerous scrotum of right wing Toff-dom as an act of rebellion? Why when the UK white working class have a stronger history of militant fights for social justice than the middle class, is a militant movement for extreme social injustice gaining more traction? Why do they have a free ride towards fascism?
Yes, the media has some role to play in it, the poor white left leaning militant working class male doesn’t get the coverage that the right leaning one does, the left wing working class voices of females aren’t even on the radar unless Russell Brand pays them a visit.
There’s no one answer to this but in my mind a big part of extremist homegrown hatred and intolerance is coming from men in marginalised communities who’ve had their social mobility severely restricted by poverty. The po’ white male has been ostracised from our macho, 'male-provider' driven, society. Not unlike his po’ non-white muslim male brother, he finds himself in a ghetto. One where he knows the rest of the world don’t give two shades. His two fingers response is hatred and intolerance. A large section of the left (particularly the liberals and middle class radicals) respond with ‘chav shaming’ the po' whites. Then blame the Sun newspaper for making them stupid. The very real economic conditions that funnel people towards these politics aren’t being challenged, but the people that are suffering under them are. We rightfully call out the state and society for creating the conditions for militant extremism amongst a small proportion of our marginalised Muslim brothers and sisters, we should do the same for our honky one's We should fight against both forms of violence but also seek to understand the toxic context in which both are being encouraged.
The right wing voices aren’t representative of the white hood, the UK grime scene I think is a good illustration of this, but rather than chav shaming, radicals, that aren’t from the white hood, should maybe look at building solidarity with the white hood voices that are mobilising to get free.
Cos let’s face it chav shaming them ain’t checked their politics and furthers the class divide between us all. The more ideas of insurrection, solidarity, liberation, class struggle, mutual aid, internationalism, anti-colonialism, post-money, abundance we can drop on authroritarians the more we stall them, trip them, knacker em out and split them.
So, I just don't feel like I
So, I just don't feel like I witnessed much of what you've laid out in that post.
I mean, I don't think there's been a major swing toward fascism amongst white working class males - no more than there's been a general rightward trend in the past 30 or 35 years. Although I'd actually argue that we're seeing a slight uptick in class activity since 2008, despite the fact much of it is incomplete, contradictory, and moving down what should be clear dead-ends politically.
As for the rest of the stuff, yeah, the Left is shit. But I haven't witnessed much "chav shaming" within the anarchist movement, nor the white working class being written off as stupid, nor the media being "blamed" for the right-ward drift of many white working class communities.
The analysis I've seen has always been a lot deeper than that and has usually been accompanied - although not always successfully - with actively supporting struggles in those communities, despite the often contradictory ideas of their participants.
2W Holy shit man, I may not
2W
Holy shit man, I may not agree with it all but I fucking LOVE your OP. The language and indignation are both poignant and amusing. Good work comrade.
And I've got to hang my head in shame here coz until a few years ago I was guilty of the very attitude towards white working class that is the target of your venom. After 25 years in the building industry I had a very snooty and judgemental attitude to many of my co-workers. Of course there was much racism, sexism and homophobia, it can't be denied, but I didn't consider the loyalty and other positive traits or their financial position , I myself either having my own small business in that time or being a high paid employee as a niche specialist.
So I guess I was just an arrogant asshole. Oh shit, I may have a much healthier attitude towards class now but on close inspection I find that I'm still an arrogant asshole.
Quote: Who's him? We're not
2 W, you answered your own question. This is a matter for sociology, it is not revolutionist.
Quote: So, I just don't feel
That's good to hear Chilli, maybe you do keep better company than me and I hope that's the case for other readers. Are you in the UK or did you say Amerikkka? My experience has been different. I would say in mixed racial communities and communities of colour (both in UK and Turtle Island) there's been a slight rise in class and race consciousness and stikcing it to the man-ism. My experience of the majority white hoods and poor rural areas has been different. Granted my rants at the rich get more of an ear than they used to just get me an ear bashin, but moving beyond Islamaphobia is very hard. Even those with a social justice lens feel that Sharia law is a heartbeat away and lot's feel abandoned, especially the youth. They feel like they are the victim in all this, no one gives a f.ck about them and fascism will help them regain some power.
Granted I don't roll with a big anarchist posse though, but as someone who inhabits both the middle class and working class worlds I see a complete disconnect and divide between the two communities and maybe not amongst anarchists (although my experience has been 'yes') but amongst the mainstream middle classes they want nowt to do with the working classes. A town hall will be filled to talk (rightfully so) about adopting a Syrian family, then 4/5 people will show up to demonstrate in solidarity with the local working class school who's been forced into special measure's.
NF cheers mate yeah I usually put anger before facts...lol. We're all arrogant assholes, I've been called out on so much shit my whole life and then still come up with more it's in our breeding, but to be fair as a white man I'm trying to undo 500 years of colonialism, it might take a while.
Schmoopz did you read the article I posted? What were your thoughts on de-classed communities? The colonial roots of the proleteriat. The meaning and suspicion of the words 'working class' to non Europeans?
The man puts us into our boxes, we don't have a choice, we're not voluntarily walking into these identity boxes, we've been forced into them, oppression is stratified, people are racialised, illegalised, socio econominc status-ised, gender-ised, sexuality-ised, disable-ised into their corners. For someone who hasn't experienced those corners to say, we're all one come join me here, by my corner right now ... ain't gonna work fella.
Especially when that corner's
Especially when that corner's been the source of so much pain and suffering for so many 'othered' peepz.
Quote: That's good to hear
Both. America at the moment, though.