This relates to the US presidential election result, I know a thread on this already exists, but I've nothing to add to it, and don't want to interrupt the discussion there by asking a few quick questions. I am having some problems following some of whats being said in that thread, can anyone help out?
1. People seem to be saying that it’s wrong and dangerous to blame his election as the result of a stupid and racist working class
2. People also seem to be saying that this isn’t due to worsened working class conditions and a disaffected working class voting against neoliberal economics – like was argued when Brexit won
3. At the same time people seem to be saying that we must acknowledge the growth of racism, xenophobia, and misogyny, that trump was elected for these reasons and that large parts of the working class are racist - but doesn't this contradict point 1?
Is the problem just in the term ‘working class’ and viewing this as a mass of similar people?
Sorry if I am being annoying :(
But it would help to know, because leftist seem to be posting a lot of contradictory views about this on social media
So, while I don't have a lot
So, while I don't have a lot of time to really get into the weeds with your question at the moment, I really do think you should post this in that thread. First because you'll be sure to get a better chance of responses but also because it will help clarify the conversation for others.
But just really quickly, it might be helpful to make the distinction between the sociological use of working class to mean those who work within industries that require physical labor and the marxian understanding of working class as those who sell their labor.
A lot of the election coverage called people 'blue collar' or 'working class' because they work in, say, construction. But the owner of a construction company is not working class if he makes his living by exploiting the labor of others. Whereas a computer programmer might be called a 'professional,' 'middle class,' or 'white collar' but since he is selling his labor, by contrast he is working class.
As far as the dumb, racist aspect-- it's rich for the media/pundits to blame a stupid working class when they've given unfiltered, unedited and wall to wall coverage to Trump, providing his ideas legitimacy by virtue of being contrasted as an equally valid point of view. Additionally, with social media algorithms working as they do most people rarely see information that challenges their worldview. So, it's a trope to blame the dumb, racist working class when they are being barraged by information saying that Trump is airing people's 'legitimate concerns.'
With the sociological usage of working class a given, there is a question about how strong Trump's support really is amongst people we would define as working class. Others have demonstrated that if people were drawn to Trump due to economic concerns, logically, we'd see equal levels of support across ethnic demographic lines. As that is obviously not the case, it's pretty safe to assume that people are drawn to Trump's (or at least not repelled by) racism and misogyny.
libcom's introductory guide to class is a good jumping off point.
http://libcom.org/library/class-class-struggle-introduction-draft
Does that help at all?
Yes it does, thanks!
Yes it does, thanks!
Scallywag #1, makes a good
Scallywag #1, makes a good point, as I’ve found the use of the words ‘working class’ confusing in threads.
Often in the American media/UK coverage, everybody is lumped into the ‘mid-class’. On the World Service the other day during the same discussion the Trump rep was referring to ‘the working class’ and the Clinton rep, talking about the some group of voters, talked about the ‘middle class’. The journalist just let this pass. A Trump rep also referred to Trump as a ‘blue collar worker’ and again no clarification was sought (BBC again).
I suggest that on libcom when people use the term ‘working class’ they add an (m) meaning in the Marxist sense of the word, or (s) meaning in the sociological sense.
Bit late to the party here.
Bit late to the party here.
A few points that I've been flirting with:
I'm no expert but perhaps the white 'blue collar' vote played kingmaker in this election. It 's always dangerous to single out a group and important to remember it's only representative of the voting classes: White blue collar voters who think that voting equals change. The mainstream republican white 'middle classes' came out in their droves for Trump too.
jesuithitsquad I think raises some important points about exposure to popular right wing bullshit and no exposure to anything left of Sanders. However, a huge issue I feel is that the working classes in all it fragmented hues accepts that the marketplace is eternal, universal and omnipresent. Some know that it isn't fair and hang onto what privilege they can get in it (right wing) and others tragically think it can be tamed or transformed (left wing).
I think capitalist left, right and fascist are three heads of the same monster: conquest, dispossession, plunder. The main issue facing the non voting classes is why did the American proleteriat vote for America again? Not Trump.
I think for the white blue collar voter, it was a conscious decision to vote for their white privilege back (the fact that they put faith in a white billionaire bigot to do this is tragic). I think there is a nostalgia amongst some blue collar white workers for the good olde days where they could be the foot soldiers of conquest, offering their devalued labour and violence in exchange for room and board and a few drinks. Globalisation has rendered them surplus to requirements, they know it and until they can dream or imagine beyond the toxic laws of the marketplace will continue to vote in dangerous numbers for opportunistic, bougie f.ckjobs like Cameron, Trump, Farage, Wilders, Le Pen etc,
The challenge for the non voting classes is how do we go up against a propoganda machine that peddles the proles, divided by race, status, fear and privilege, with their own servitude to the point they cannot look past their prison walls.
No Nation, No money. No worries..
Yeah-a huge portion of US
Yeah-a huge portion of US Population are non-voters, something we can't allow to get lost in this conversation.
Speaking of conversations--Again, I highly encourage moving these comments into the larger thread on the election. There are valuable points and questions here that deserve a wider airing which they are more likely to get in that thread.
Being a bit uneducated in
Being a bit uneducated in this dept. how do you move it to the wider thread and can anyone give a one paragraph summary of the 400 + posts on it....lol?
Just copy and paste and use
Just copy and paste and use the quote tags (remember to put the name of the poster after =). I'd do this, but on my tablet which is a pain to use for c&p.
OneManWentToMow wrote: Being
OneManWentToMow
You can skip forward to like post 368. Everything prior is pre election. There's still a lot of interesting stuff before there, and some of the debates going on now were going on then, but here's a link to post-election posts.
http://libcom.org/forums/north-america/2016-us-presidential-election-05032016?page=12#comment-587461