Youth Climate Strike

It's broadly A Good Thing.

My daughter went on the first one last month and will go on this one.

Her school was fairly supportive of the first one, but other schools where we live said that kids would be marked as truanting if they attended.

It sounded pretty fun and I assume for a lot of those who went it would have been their first demo.

Theresa May criticised people for going which lead to chants throughout the day of "fuck Theresa May".

The question is whether this generation will be bought off with platitudes from politicians or will they turn into the next wave of activists who can challenge climate change head on? Probably a bit of both.

ACG article on the last demo:
LINK

While not about the climate strike, wrote this up about school walkouts in the US last year which touches on some of the issue facing the kids trying to do them - which between individual schools can swing between liberal co-option and repression depending on the head: https://libcom.org/blog/cutting-class-communism-school-strikes-april-20th-17022018

There were police horse charges, kettling and arrests on the last day of walkouts which frankly I'd have expected the police to be a bit more hands off with kids in school uniform.

Not sure if there's a thread on here about the entirely awful Extinction Rebellion yet?

On Extinction Rebellion, this seems like a fairly worthwhile attempt at friendly critique: https://freedomnews.org.uk/green-anti-capitalist-front-manifesto-open-letter-to-extinction-rebellion/

Was trying to think of any interesting texts that had come out of the last wave of student walkouts in the US, drawing a blank, but some people formatted a chapter of a Nanni Balestrini novel dealing with a walkout in printable zine format if that's of any use?

R Totale thanks for the link to the Green Anti-Capitalist Front Manifesto.
There seems to be a few ideas in there that are a bit vague such as:

We must push our trade unions to adopt an environmental as well as anti-capitalist stance which argues for a just but rapid transition for workers in extractive industries.

I can't see any reference in the text to anarchism, communism or revolution.

Has anyone any idea which organisations are acually part of this front? (maybe this is for another thread?).

Edit: I cannot understand why any anarchist group would get involved with Extinction Rebellion.

rat, Not sure exactly who is involved in this Green Anti-capitalist Front but there is more on their Twitter Feed including this promoted more upfront anarchist critique of 'Extinction Rebellion' here:
https://theslowburningfuse.wordpress.com/2019/03/12/why-extinction-rebellion-cant-save-the-world/
Edit: that is a text borrowed from elsewhere now posted up on libcom by LAMA.

My daughter's school is not supporting the kids who want to go out on strike this Friday and has offered a discussion on climate change with some of the geography teachers instead.

We've written and said that she is going anyway, but I suspect this will need to gradually decreasing numbers as the novelty wears off and the schools are less understanding.

I don't suppose anyone will be able to get this printed in time for tomorrow, especially as the people who posted it don't seem to have added a print-ready formatted version, but there's this from Canadian comrades: https://north-shore.info/2019/03/14/open-letter-to-climate-strikers/

"Politicians, including some aspiring ones who call themselves ‘activists,’ ask how the growing fear and discontent might be exploited for personal gain. History clearly demonstrates that if we allow these people to lead our movements, they will pull the plug at precisely the moment that we become a real threat to the existing order. Those in power rely on funneling our rage towards dead ends. Let’s get organized, but not behind politicians trying to sell us the latest Hope™.

We don’t know exactly what a ‘better world’ could look like. But like you, we feel that we have to try. We don’t want to just feel like we’re on “the right side of history,” a narcissistic trap. We want to be effective, within an ethical framework that values freedom, autonomy and solidarity. Let’s start taking seriously the idea we might actually have an impact. To that end, we propose a joyful, strategic, and fierce resistance that might include these ingredients:

Transformation, not reform. Capitalism is killing the planet. It is a system based on endless growth, and only serves the rich and powerful. No lifestyle change or government reform is going to touch that. It’s gotta go. Those in power will not simply be persuaded to change their ways and give up the wealth and power they have accumulated through centuries of patriarchy, colonial plunder, and mass exploitation.

The police stand in our way. Maybe you already hold your breath when a cop drives by. If not, remember that even the friendliest cops have to follow orders or get fired. Police are the violent defenders of this rotten system. To even make a dent, many people will have to break a lot of laws, and not just in the “arrest me for the cameras” kind of way.

Let’s build lives worth living. We’re cynical, but we are not hopeless. When we refuse to resign and instead build lives worth living now, we see glimpses of a different future, and start to feel compelled to defend ourselves. We want collective lives rife with empathy, creativity, and openness.

Thank you, again, for showing up. This is the beginning of a long road, or maybe a tightrope. Let’s walk it together, trying to avoid the traps that lay ahead."

I was at the Sydney one today, the turnout was really great. I asked around a bit and it seemed like most of the schoolkids there were given permission to go by their school, with varying levels of official encouragement -- there were a few chartered buses nearby, probably for some of the private schools who had organised large groups of attendees. As for uni students, I know that the University of New South Wales put out a statement saying they're not going to penalise students for being absent today, and University of Sydney went a step further and said they're not even going to penalise staff for being absent.

The official tenor of the event was quite electoral; some of the speeches talked about making sure our politicians act properly and that sort of thing. There was a weird bit where they gave out Bill Shorten (opposition leader, likely next PM)'s office phone number and told people to save it and call it later with a demand that he "be our climate leader" and announce a better climate policy or something. To the credit of the official organisers, they did a good job including speakers from a bunch of different backgrounds/perspectives: there were kids from Western Sydney (working-class, multicultural) who talked about that, indigenous kids, kids from pacific islands countries (Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, etc).

More generally I felt the crowd was more radical than the officials. There was no specific anarchist presence that I saw. Most of the left organisations were represented; the Communist Party of Australia was there with the Maritime Union, Socialist Alliance (orthodox Trots) had their banner, as did Solidarity (Cliffites, SWP sister party), and Socialist Alternative (also Cliffites, led a chant of "oceans rise, so do we/overthrow the bourgeoisie").

Overall I'd say it was a good event and probably served as a good introduction to activism for schoolkids who have never done this sort of thing before. I don't expect anything huge to come out of it but as far as these things go it was definitely worthwhile.

Also, I saw a handful of people carrying Extinction Rebellion signs; they seemed really strange so I decided not to approach. They were promoting some event they have coming up. Do they deliberately try and market themselves to seem like a shady cult? What's with the weird iconography?

Oh, for anyone interested in the Green Anticapitalist Front mentioned above, they have an open meeting coming up in London: https://greenanticapitalist.org/2019/03/13/open-meeting-23rd-march-2019/

That Green Anticapitalist Front meeting seems to be about hanging onto those liberal martyrs of Extinction Rebellion.
Bad idea.

The Green Anti-Capitalist Front is a new movement supported by radical
groups and individuals across London and the UK which aims to support
the surge of actions being carried out by Extinction Rebellion...

I mean, probably worth quoting that bit in full, because it looks a bit different in context:
"The Green Anti-Capitalist Front is a new movement supported by radical groups and individuals across London and the UK which aims to support the surge of actions being carried out by Extinction Rebellion while also offering a radical alternative for those who see the abolition of capitalism as the only real means of avoiding complete ecological catastrophe. We also recognise that many of us would like to be involved in actions which do not include asking to be arrested or collaborating with the police. We are calling for an open assembly where we can decide how we wish to interact with Extinction Rebellion and what alternative actions we can pursue."

Which to me sounds like they have quite a clear critique of ER's liberalism and definitely don't plan on getting involved in their pointless mass arrests, but are trying to present it in a bit more of a "you catch more flies with honey" kind of way? They also say that the point of the meeting is to decide "how we wish to interact with Extinction Rebellion", so if anyone wanted to turn up and argue that ER are such a bunch of dangerous numpties that no-one should touch them with a ten-foot pole, presumably there'd be space to make that argument?

Yes I agree with you there and I should have quoted the full paragraph.
But I am am very pessimistic about the there being any positive aspects of anarchist communists engaging with ER.

Here's a link to a video that was posted on Libcom's Twitter account back in November that clearly shows the moronic attitude of ER.

https://twitter.com/copwatcher/status/10656625404185640

I also agree with the Libcom obsevation that accompanies the video:

If you're even remotely considering taking part in an Extinction Rebellion action you should watch this first, then keep several miles away until they stop doing this fucking... enthusiastically and intentionally getting people arrested
what the fuck.

rat

Here's a link to a video that was posted on Libcom's Twitter account back in November that clearly shows the moronic attitude of ER.

https://twitter.com/copwatcher/status/10656625404185640

I also agree with the Libcom obsevation that accompanies the video:

If you're even remotely considering taking part in an Extinction Rebellion action you should watch this first, then keep several miles away until they stop doing this fucking... enthusiastically and intentionally getting people arrested
what the fuck.

Link's not working, is it the right one?

Sorry about that, I was trying to post a link to the short video clip on Twitter. Here's the longer version entitled 'We can't get arrested quick enough' on the Guardian's website. The clip on Twitter started at about 10:20 of this 13 minute one, so if you havn't got 13 minutes to waste, just start from there.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/nov/22/we-cant-get-arrested-quick-enough-life-inside-extinction-rebellion-video

(This link might work for the Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/libcomorg/status/1066007829444788225)

[edit: are Extinction Rebellion actually some sort of cult, which requires the devote to go through a sacrificial ritual of getting nicked?]

According to the London AF FB page re the Green Anticapitalist Front:
"So, some members have set up this group but we want to expand it as wide as possible. Please help take it off our hands and make it not just an Anarchist Fed group! We've been overwhelmed with emails of support since we launched it - think the time might be right for an anticapitalist front!"

This 22 minute video by Roger Hallam explains the reactionary ideas of Extinction Rebellion:

"This is about getting things into a situation...that you can actually get into the room with the government, and that's what it's about..."

So essentially it seems that he considers all those foot soldiers who get arrested on Extinction Rebellion demos, as very useful cannon fodder in his battle for the XR leadership to be recognised as representatives, mediators who can do business with the state.

Or am I just getting carried away in my bitterness, and he just wants to be able to impose some 'reasonable' demands on whatever government?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSOlRNCO9L8

rat

This 22 minute video by Roger Hallam explains the reactionary ideas of Extinction Rebellion:

"This is about getting things into a situation...that you can actually get into the room with the government, and that's what it's about..."

I'd hesitate to call that reactionary, but "getting to a point where governments see us as a legitimate voice" is non-radical as such.

I'm not sure yet what more thorough analysis people in Extinction Rebellion tend to have in terms of existing society and what societal change is needed. They express the awareness that the problem is bigger than climate change, extending to other ways we are critically undermining ecosystems on a scale that is reaching all sorts of limits. I think such an awareness will necessarily circle back to affect what underlying causes and longer-term solutions people perceive. I think that is the area where the radical, non-radical or even reactionary politics will really come into play (for example, whether people draw Malthusian conclusions - 'there are just too many people' - or instead anti-capitalist ones), not in the types of actions or the desired immediate results.

Even when actions are essentially "petitioning the government" or demanding a seat at the table, it should be pointed out that government is only the place where the lack of political will to do anything is concentrated, not where it originates.
Governments are so inactive in preventing climate change and ecological destruction because they are the expression of capitalist interest in society.

By the way, I think that ("capitalist interest") should be taken to mean: all forms of capitalist interest, including the capitalist interest of people who need to sell their labour-power, or any other interest which is reproduced through the existing social form. The reproduction of capitalism is the base-line for all interests that correspond to it, which means that if you let the capitalist form of your life-interests take precedence over their substance, then preserving capitalism will be the only realistic option, and it will seem that your life as such presupposes the continuity of capital as a social relation. If you can conceive of the two separately, you are not forced by the power of your own brain to side with capitalism, and your life-interests would perhaps tend to be slanted towards preserving the life-world rather than the continuation of the capitalist form.

The Green Anti-capitalist Front seems intent on expanding itself as a broad front organisation for a mixed bag of assumed anti-capitalist campaigning groups with this propaganda demonstration and it's assertion that 'Climate Struggle is Class Struggle' here:
https://freedomnews.org.uk/april-15th-anti-capitalist-demo-call-out/
That assertion still needs to be based on some explanatory analysis as to how the two are, or can be, practically linked - but maybe that will be forthcoming.

As this is the active thread on climate change, I just wanted to drop this article I was reading earlier:

Peter St. Clair - Facing the heat
https://brooklynrail.org/2019/04/field-notes/Facing-The-Heat

St. Clair is critical of the Green New Deal, of the too-moderate left and their too-limited critique of capitalism (i.e. only critical of unregulated capitalism), and arguing for the need for a militant social movement demanding an immediate conversion away from fossil fuels.

that vid is absurd. does that twat really think getting people arrested will convince the public that they are right when he openly is trying to get it to happen and admits to this ON CAMERA.

Ugh. I only managed six minutes. What a liberal toss.

Since I don't think anyone's come up with the definitive helpful critique of XR/related initiatives yet, just to suggest anyone interested in trying to write one might get some inspiration from looking over old debates about climate camp - see for instance "Remember, Remember: Climate Camp" and various other texts from the Shift archives.

There's a cut down version of the vid on twitter https://twitter.com/copwatcher/status/1065662540418564096

that kept the bits about XR's leaders arguing with the police to arrest more protestors. Twitter isn't exactly the best place to look things up I made a copy.

https://archive.org/details/ExtinctionRebellionConspireToGetPeopleArrested

Was on youtube but the Guardian is cracking down on uploads.

In case people haven't seen it, the flyer GAF produced is here: https://greenanticapitalist.org/2019/04/16/april-15th-post-action-report/

https://enoughisenough14.org/2019/04/24/rebellion-extinction-a-capitalist-scam-to-hijack-our-resistance/

An over-simplification of the undeniable political naivity of XR or simply acknowledgement that capitalism will co-opt even its opponents?

"the capitalists will sell us the rope with which we hang them with"

ACG text here: https://www.anarchistcommunism.org/2019/04/25/extinction-rebellion-notes/
Any plans to do this as a leaflet?

IMO the criticisms of XR are all fine until you get to stuff like.....

We don’t know exactly what a ‘better world’ could look like

imagine those thousands of people protesting fossil fuel plants.....(which is basically like climate camp have done and will do again to currently fairly limited long term success)

which is hardly in either case the most convincing argument and comes across pretty weak tbh

I know i may seem facetious but you can moan about XR's demands being liberal/reformist/seat-at-the-tableist (which they of course explicitly are) all you want, but i think you have to have some sort of coherent alternative. I mean i can think of plenty of liberal or liberal left books/pamphlets on what a zero carbon society might look like (eg off the top of my had https://www.cat.org.uk/info-resources/zero-carbon-britain/research-reports/zero-carbon-rethinking-the-future/ ) .And yet the anarchists//radical left have sadly little that is current to offer on this front.

I mean as it stands now XR's strength is a minimal set of demands for people to coalesce around and clear brand, conversely its weakness from our point of view is that it doesn't push out any concrete set of material demands whether transitional (scrap all fossil fuels subsidies) or a full description of a zero carbon society and how it could meet energy demands. Presumably this is because from their for want of a better word radical liberal perspective this might muddle the message and in their view its for the leadership, politicians and citizens assembly etc to sort out not the rest of us. Thus as far as I can see XR simply links to a few other pages when it comes to offering solutions on its site rather than laying out anything in any more detail.

An open letter to Extinction Rebellion, composed by a number of groups:

https://www.redpepper.org.uk/an-open-letter-to-extinction-rebellion/

R Totale

ACG text here: https://www.anarchistcommunism.org/2019/04/25/extinction-rebellion-notes/
Any plans to do this as a leaflet?

We hadn't planned to but your idea is certainly a good 'un. I'll raise it in the org.

The 'Red Pepper' contribution seems to be recommending a long cobbled together list, selected to suite each and every one of it's different reformist campaigning organisation contributors, of what might best be described as 'transitional demands' (in the trotskyist style), some no doubt desirable but as a combination completely incompatible with the continuance of capitalism. The rest of it is just some repetition of 'advice' on tactics similar to that provided by others. 'Red Pepper' magazine is best left on the shelf to gather dust.

ACG flyer downloadable HERE

Spikymike

The 'Red Pepper' contribution seems to be recommending a long cobbled together list, selected to suite each and every one of it's different reformist campaigning organisation contributors, of what might best be described as 'transitional demands' (in the trotskyist style), some no doubt desirable but as a combination completely incompatible with the continuance of capitalism. The rest of it is just some repetition of 'advice' on tactics similar to that provided by others. 'Red Pepper' magazine is best left on the shelf to gather dust.

Yeah, perhaps you're right. I liked the letter better than the indeed very 'transitional' demands. I do value the sense of connecting climate crisis with centuries of extractivism and colonialism (with the omission of slavery). Ecological destruction is not a new thing, and even if climate breakdown takes it to a new qualitative level, seeing the deeper historical connections offers a more strategic view of the current moment. Instead of climate change being a terrible, bad, but inexplicable thing that undeservingly befalls an otherwise "modern and rational" society, and which can be undone by one more technical fix in a long line of technical fixes, it seems to be a much more diabolical problem where capitalist society is faced with the consequences of its past "solutions" that have turned into their opposites.

Maybe my reading was more sympathetic than yours, I think the authors have just chosen to not outright declare capitalism to be the problem but instead to draw some lines in the sand to set conversations going with those involved in the XR events.

So with the Red Pepper statement, this caught me off guard a bit to be honest.

With climate change, if we talk about specific ways to combat it starting from our current position, then it is hard to couch them in ways which are not 'transitional demands' even if we're clear we think it will require social revolution to accomplish them. Whether a particular reform of capitalism is possible or not is a matter of conjecture usually.

An obvious demand, given that 33% of UK emissions are from transport (excluding international transport) and 30% of those are commuting to work or school (i.e. 10% of UK emissions are from commutes), would be a four (or three, or two) day working week - reducing commuter journeys by 1/5th (or 2/5ths or 3/5ths). (see here for stats https://data.gov.uk/dataset/9a1e58e5-d1b6-457d-a414-335ca546d52c/provisional-uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions-national-statistics)

Or much longer holiday allowances so that people can take holidays which involve more travel time (by rail) compared to quick flight short trips.

This might be completely inconceivable under capitalism (although personally I think a four day week could be absorbed by higher productivity in a lot of sectors - i.e. an increase in relative surplus value offsetting a decrease in absolute surplus value and some employers are trying four day weeks already) - but reducing the working day is a long-standing aim of workplace organisation and points towards the abolition of work altogether in communism. In other words it might not be possible under capitalism, but it's pragmatic in the sense that a mass working class movement could either force it as a concession or go beyond it and it would have a concrete effect.

'Democratising the financial sector' on the other hand seems outlandish to me, it's the stuff of sovereign wealth funds or national investment banks. It's quite possible that states could massively subsidise renewable energy and reduce fossil fuel subsidy, but why couch this as a financial sector reform?

I'm not sure how they arrived at that, other than by adding ingredients and boiling it down to a string of words they could agree on.

I came across this much better, more radically argued case about the extractivist and colonial implications of a Green New Deal (with the assumption of continued capitalist growth), from the director of War on Want, an organisation that also signed the Red Pepper open letter to XR:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/green-new-deal-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-corbyn-colonialism-climate-change-a8899876.html

Thought I would just add this 'post-situ' more personal/political reaction to the whole Extinction Rebellion street rebellion experience as a short practical critique of life in the City with some more criticism of it's participants limited understanding of the everyday deterioration of our local natural environment. See here;
www.revoltagainstplenty.com/index.php/recent/278-two-critical-comments-on-extinction-rebellion.html

And there is is this critical comparison between the call for a 'youth climate strike' now extended to others and the different concepts and practice of a 'general strike' and the 'mass strike' from a Left Communist perspective;
https://libcom.org/blog/thumbergs-call-general-strikes-confusions-liberal-protests-170720019

And further to my earlier post #41 maybe something brewing in Manchester with this (semi-authorised?) street occupation and protest - reminded me of 'Reclaim the Streets' but without the class based links.
www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=5212
Edit: So it was a pleasant experience it seems fully authorised by the local Council and the police which coincided with another tolerated big anti-government 'pro-democracy' march - displaying a superficial level of 'unity' that effectively camouflaged the real problems and solutions to our common experience of the growing economic and political crisis.

Just thought I'd mention my experience because I think it sheds light on the functioning of XR. I went along to the protest in Hyde Park. The speeches were a little irritating in term,s of their self congratulatory tone and general liberalism but that was to be expected. The main thing I experienced was during the 'discussion circle' part; I tried to steer the conversation towards capitalism and the need for revolution which some of the group who apparently were from 'Plan C' (doesn't mean they were anything but more radical liberals but...) agreed with 'in principle' but they were happy to go along with the XR provided 'discussion leader' in leaving capitalism out of the groups planned statement to the rest of the protesters. His reason was that 'we are all capitalists' (I suppose because we are privileged westerners blah blah blah).

Anyway I thought this was quite a useful microcosm of what XR are all about; trying to save capitalism from itself rather than actually trying to get to the root of the problem.

Anyone have similar experiences?

Thoughts: is it worth trying to distinguish between XR and the climate strike movement, or are they more or less the same thing in practice?
Also, what about the Sep 20th strike call, does it have much traction where you are? I've had a go at writing up something which touches on the subject which I'll try and post up when I get a chance, but in short, my reading would be: probably won't have any impact at all in non-unionised workplaces, where some union organisation does exist it still probably won't lead to any real workplace strike activity as such but even lunchtime meetups between some sections of unionised workers and a relatively autonomous/self-organised/spontaneous schoolkids movement making demands that go beyond simple economic ones would be an overall positive development in the present situation, I think. Any other thoughts or experiences?

eta: I see the AF are keen: https://freedomnews.org.uk/af-back-the-earth-strike/

A very uncritical supporting statement from the AF not very different to the usual leftist strategy of trying to 'building broad alliances' across labour and civil society.

Freedom also has this reportback from the first few months of the Green Anticapitalist Front: https://freedomnews.org.uk/climate-is-class-war-what-next-for-green-activism/

Also, looking back over the thread, I still think this from March is a decent text: https://north-shore.info/2019/03/14/open-letter-to-climate-strikers/ I might have a go at formatting it into a printable version ahead of the 20th, if I get time - of course, anyone else is welcome to do the same.

EDIT: it's not great, but I got around to putting something together, if anyone feels like using it: http://libcom.org/library/some-suggestions-climate-strikers

Video from Reel News here giving a bit of an overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbrJUAOy2kc
Any thoughts about what's happening in people's local areas, what the possibilities are or aren't, and so on?

A Call For Radical Interventions In The Global Climate Strike - bit generic, but interesting that GAF and the AF's statement are getting noticed elsewhere.

The ICC's leaflet for the Friday protests is here, with a PDF for those who want to distribute it. We don't expect to be popular faced with a protest that is widely supported by serious sections of the ruling class, but we do think it's possible to develop a discussion among those taking part in the protests who are asking real questions about capitalism and its future. https://en.internationalism.org/content/16724/only-international-class-struggle-can-end-capitalisms-drive-towards-destruction#

Are leaflets the right medium for us to use on this occasion?

I have been endeavouring (unsuccessfully) to persuade my Party that giving out leaflets to the eco-protesters will not be too warmly received as they will equate the disposable paper used in the leaflets as another example of waste and deforestation, even if the type of wood from timber used in paper-pulp is relatively quickly renewable. It means unnecessarily alienating and distancing ourselves from what should have been a receptive audience for our ideas.

I have been suggesting increasing the number of re-usable banners and give-away but durable mini-flags with appropriate images and slogans as an alternative. Also the use of outdoor projectors.

Deeper and more lengthy analysis can be linked to for later exploration once the lure of a snappy slogan has hooked interest.

But on suggesting this I now realise that giving belated advice is no advice at all.

Hadn't thought of it that way. I'm also not convinced leaflets are the best medium, less because of paper concerns (I've definitely seen plenty of paper-based outreach materials for and from these movements), and more because of a general concern about "othering"/"third partying".
It feels to me like giving out leaflets often tends to put one in the role of "we're the communists/socialists/anarchists/whatever, and we've come here to tell you eco-protesters, or whatever, what you need to be doing". And sometimes that's unavoidable, sometimes you do just have to go on the march with a banner saying "this march is shit", but my reading of the situation, and I could well be wrong here, is that there's enough space open at the moment that it'd also be possible to inhabit, for instance, the position of "we're fellow eco-protesters/climate rebels, and we think capitalism is the cause of the problem and working with the cops won't solve it", which could potentially be much more productive. Maybe.
And I do appreciate that in the course of an actual demo it's hard to have a conversation much more indepth than just giving a leaflet out, this advice would be more about involvement in the planning meetings and so on beforehand, so ajj's caveat at the end is equally applicable to my post, but on the other hand it's not like this Friday will be the end of the climate movement or anything.
Anyway, I kind of feel that if I was Roger Hallam or whoever, and I wanted to make the argument that "communists are hostile outsider agitators who aren't really part of our movement", stuff like the ICC text above is exactly what I'd want them to be giving out.
[insert Steve Buscemi "fellow kids" meme here]

R Totale: If you're around Millbank tomorrow maybe we can continue this discussion in the actual flesh. You'll see a few comrades brandishing World Revolution and handing out things.

In any case, we can later on exchange in this thread our assessment of what this or similar demonstrations signify, and what communists should be doing at such events.

Ah, I'm not London-based, but good luck!

Thanks. And to you. I wish you some good arguments.

R Totale

Thoughts: is it worth trying to distinguish between XR and the climate strike movement, or are they more or less the same thing in practice?

Hmm I think it's worth making a distinction.

XR are explicitly trying to get thousands of people arrested, push various eco-nationalist views from the leadership, tries to get meetings with the Tories etc.

Climate Strike is not explicitly trying to get thousands of people arrested, but seems a lot more dominated by traditional environmental NGOs and similar.

R Totale

Also, what about the Sep 20th strike call, does it have much traction where you are?

Actual striking all day? I don't think there's anything really? People spending their lunchtimes (possibly extended) at the demos seems more the pace, but this is not always necessarily bad as such just very limited.

Just been down to my local one and saw very few kids 5-15 but probably half of the 500-1000 people there were post-16 or university students. A notable thing was the front of the march was dominated by a handful of Extinction Rebellion activists in their 50s-ish (not actually Hallam or Badbrook but extremely similar demographic) whereas the bulk of the march was a noisy contingent of teenagers plus a few randoms (and the Green Party, local TUC etc. dotted around). Probably about 20-30 of what I would consider actual XR people in total vs. 500+ who were not.

Mike Harman

Hmm I think it's worth making a distinction.

XR are explicitly trying to get thousands of people arrested, push various eco-nationalist views from the leadership, tries to get meetings with the Tories etc.

Climate Strike is not explicitly trying to get thousands of people arrested, but seems a lot more dominated by traditional environmental NGOs and similar.

At this point I would also be interested in trying to establish how far local XR groups do or don't endorse the positions of the central leadership, I appreciate that's not an easy question to answer though. Or at least answering it would involve communication and sharing of experiences among communists on a scale I'm not sure really exists atm.
I'm also not sure what it really means to say the climate strike is more dominated by traditional NGOs - like, they might be more willing to endorse it, but I don't think Greenpeace or whoever really has any kind of actual hegemony over the kids who've been walking out?

Actual striking all day? I don't think there's anything really? People spending their lunchtimes (possibly extended) at the demos seems more the pace, but this is not always necessarily bad as such just very limited.

Yeah, I think this is the one point I seem to find myself coming back to over and over again, that something can be very very limited and still constitute a positive development compared to the status quo. Something I'd be really interested in, but again is probably impossible to quantify, is people going down on their own, which I don't think counts for much, versus groups of workers spending their lunchtimes going down to the protests together, which I think is a bit more worthwhile.
On which note, about 6-7 people went down from my workplace as a kind of loosely organised group, the majority being people I'd not spoken to before (for context, I am fairly new at my current job), along with someone I've chatted to a fair bit but not really much about "political" stuff before, so I feel that getting to know a few more people in my workplace who are up for "doing things" was a good use of my lunchbreak. Best chant I heard was "no borders, no nations/no coal power stations!", hadn't encountered that variation before.

More generally, on productive ways to intervene: if people are really keen to actually do ideological intervention in the movement, have you considered just asking local environmental-type groups if they'd be willing to have you do a talk or lead a discussion? I had a vague memory that Bristol AFed were part of a local XR event, although I can't find much beyond a brief mention here now. But anyway, depending on where people are, there's local XR groups, and student People & Planet groups, and Student Climate Network groups, and Reclaim the Power, and probably more I can't think of now. If anyone really wants to, no reason to not contact your local ones and ask if they'd be willing to have you do a presentation on "the economic roots of climate change - why markets and profit aren't compatible with long-term sustainability", or "how can movements make effective change?" or "policing and environmental movements" or whatever else you think they need telling about. They might say no, but I don't think there's any guarantee that all of them will.

R Totale

I'm also not sure what it really means to say the climate strike is more dominated by traditional NGOs - like, they might be more willing to endorse it, but I don't think Greenpeace or whoever really has any kind of actual hegemony over the kids who've been walking out?

Not the kids who are walking about as such, but the FridaysForFuture website advises kids to get in touch with local NGOs to help them organise the protests. Climate strike events especially as they attract the numbers they have the past couple times, will have stages with PA systems that will have NGO (and Green Party) spokespeople talking on them.

At my more pessimistic I could see schools inviting people in to do workshops and similar - basically a Personal and Social Education day that coincides with the strikes to replace actually... striking. Is this better or worse than schools (and kids) completely ignoring it though I dunno.

There's also the David Simon 'give your staff the afternoon off' approach of company-sponsored afternoons. This happened with some of the anti-ICE / anti-Trump stuff in the US where I think Google campus had an official company event. Now I think that was a response to Google employees talking about joining the event so an afternoon of that instead of sitting at a desk can still be a step forward but it could also be a step into a cul-de-sac where it doesn't go further than this.

R Totale

Student Climate Network groups

So this https://twitter.com/UKSCN1/status/1174669772669239297 was at least normal activist advice if you get arrested, and not telling people to do yoga and run their mouth off to any cop that will listen to them.

This short report of the Salford and Manchester rallies gives us a picture of the extent to which the 'climate strike' was limited there to (mostly authorised) student absence from schools with token representatives from the official trade union and Labour Party and no actual workplace strikes. The Manchester rally I attended was full of lively, loud and enthusiastic young people, factually if not politically well informed , some very young with their parents and I thought maybe teachers/carers. Stalls present were from the two main campaign groups, Friends of the Earth, and the SWP. The Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham was on the platform and after fielding a few questions managed to promote his own agenda getting several rounds of applause from the young people if not from our older wiser hands. No sign of any anarchist or communist groups or leaflets. See here:
www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=5248
There are some good and relevant articles on libcom but mostly too long I thought to make good leaflets for me or others to distribute.

Some ICC comrades and sympathisers went to the London event (and also to Liverpool). We sold our current paper (in small numbers...) but concentrated on giving out our leaflet and a previous issue of World Revolution (383) which has several articles on the ecology question. Young people tended to be more interested in taking stuff than some of the older hands. No one was upset by the wasted paper. We met comrades from the CWO who were giving out Aurora. A few interesting discussions with participants, but it wasn't a very political atmosphere.
Sunny weather , a park by the Thames. Plenty of loud music and amusing placards. So more of a day out than a 'strike', and completely dominated by the various forces of the bourgeoisie. We left towards the end when Corbyn came on.
There is a real indignation here, an awareness among some very young people of something utterly flawed in the way society functions, which makes it all the more sickening that an adroitly set up campaign has so rapidly taken charge of the whole 'discourse' and is defining all the parameters of organisation and action. This cannot be separated from the inter-classist nature of the protests, even if real workers' strike movements can also be entirely derailed and smothered by the bourgeoisie.
In many ways, this 'strike' was completely kettled by the police who discretely surrounded the park and laid out start and end times. Not in an open brutal way like in the student movement of 2010, but in a more smiley and 'considerate' manner

Hmmm, not so smiley reallly I and other ACG members were told we must move from Parliament Square to Millbank or be arrested and it wasn;t "considerate" at all. Also intervened with others when zealous cop was thinking of arresting young woman chalking pavement with slogans, for "criminal damage". He backed off , faced with the number of people shouting at him.
Distributed hundreds of our paper the Jackdaw and well as London anarchist paper Rebel City. Yes, lots of young people took the papers, but also many women of different age groups and ethinic origins. ACG had similar successful distros at Climate Strike events in Glasgow,Leeds, Norwich and Exeter.

Statement of Priama akcia and photo report from Bratislava
https://priamaakcia.sk/Statement-of-Priama-Akcia-Union-Regarding-Climate-Strike.html
https://priamaakcia.sk/Photo-Report-From-the-Climate-Strike-in-Bratislava-20-9-2019-.html

Mike Harman

There's also the David Simon 'give your staff the afternoon off' approach of company-sponsored afternoons. This happened with some of the anti-ICE / anti-Trump stuff in the US where I think Google campus had an official company event. Now I think that was a response to Google employees talking about joining the event so an afternoon of that instead of sitting at a desk can still be a step forward but it could also be a step into a cul-de-sac where it doesn't go further than this.

I think this point is really worth considering. Yeah, it's possible for this stuff to happen in a totally interclassist way if it's just eco-friendly small businesses with a conscience giving their staff the day off, but, if it's an actual demand being raised by workers first - "you say you're a sustainable green employer, now prove it by giving us time off", then I think that's actual worker agency, no? In my workplace, there was a demand raised that management should give a guarantee not to victimise anyone taking time off to participate, which we weren't able to win, but - at the risk of sounding like a transitional demands trot - I think the process of formulating that demand and raising it collectively was a good experience in terms of bringing workers together, exposing the limits of progressive management rhetoric and so on.

So this https://twitter.com/UKSCN1/status/1174669772669239297 was at least normal activist advice if you get arrested, and not telling people to do yoga and run their mouth off to any cop that will listen to them.

I briefly just got the fear in case they turned out to be yet another SWP front group, but having done a quick check I don't think they are.
Spikymike

This short report of the Salford and Manchester rallies gives us a picture of the extent to which the 'climate strike' was limited there to (mostly authorised) student absence from schools with token representatives from the official trade union and Labour Party and no actual workplace strikes.

On this, in the video I'd posted above (which definitely does feature some SWP faces, although I don't think the Salford Unison person is one of them), there's someone talking about how Salford council workers were giving the option of taking unpaid leave to join the protests, although if there were only 100 at the Salford one it sounds like not that many of them took it up. But again, I'm kind of intrigued: how much of a real distinction is there between a legal, officially protected strike and workers taking co-ordinated unpaid leave together?
Also nice to see someone in that article with the "wrong amazon is burning" slogan, which seems like a good snappy summation of an anticapitalist perspective.

Anyway, I think it'd be a bit daft and unrealistic to expect that, starting from where we're at now, there would have been big political strikes that would have necessarily been totally illegal and outside the whole framework of trade union law, I don't think there was ever a realistic chance of that happening. What I'm interested in is whether yesterday's events, and the process of mobilisation led up to them, played any kind of positive role in a process of class recomposition that could make those kinds of strikes more possible. And I suspect the answer to that question will probably be very different depending on different sectors of the workforce - like, I imagine there probably won't have been much/any impact at all in the unorganised private sector workplaces that make up most of the economy, and probably not for anyone working outside of the city centre. But in places where some level of organisation and confidence already exists, and the bosses' rhetoric is green and eco-friendly enough to be hypocritical, I think there might be something going on. Although I appreciate that from the outside it's always hard to see the difference between "important subterranean microcosmic developments" and "nothing happening".

Alf

Sunny weather , a park by the Thames. Plenty of loud music and amusing placards. So more of a day out than a 'strike'.

Would it have been more of a proper strike if the weather was horrible? :P

There is a real indignation here, an awareness among some very young people of something utterly flawed in the way society functions, which makes it all the more sickening that an adroitly set up campaign has so rapidly taken charge of the whole 'discourse' and is defining all the parameters of organisation and action.

This is another point of disagreement - I'm really not convinced that campaign organisers have that much control over the schoolkids' walkouts in any real sense. I think there's a process of self-organisation going on here, where the parameters of organisation and action are being defined in ways that are necessarily as opaque to us as anyone else. But I'm not so sure that they're being set from above.

RT. Not sure what you made of my Salford linked report but 100 people is not 100 Council workers. Apart from the young people, this lunchtime rally was attended mainly by Council and Union officials and not any ''coordinated' use of 'permission' to take unpaid leave!! The Manchester rally I attended was as I described with the SWP making their usual opportunistic use of the event together with the Local Labour Party via Andy Burnham, together with the interpretation of the issue via the reformist campaigns and the influence of the local schools administrations. This is not to detract from the growing interest of the young people in the serious issue of climate change and ecological deterioration which has potential yet to fully materialise.

R Totale

But again, I'm kind of intrigued: how much of a real distinction is there between a legal, officially protected strike and workers taking co-ordinated unpaid leave together?

I don't think there's that much difference - the main distinction would be that it's legally impossible to have an officially protected 'climate strike' in the UK because strikes are only lawful when part of a trade dispute.

This is why when union leaders talk about 'general strikes', apart from being posturing in the first place, the closest they could get to without union funds being sequestered would be co-ordinating the timing of strike action in relation to multiple different trade disputes to coincide on the same day/week.

On police attitudes: any smiley face is obviously not a real smile, and there were inverted commas around considerate. I am sure the mask slipped on a number of occasions, as Battlescarred recounts. But I think the approach of the state as a whole, or certainly a substantial part of it, to these events is the phony smiley one, and the police will have orders to carry out this out - "respect for diversity and equality" is the official police ethic after all - even if many of its officers on the spot are not very good at applying it.
A more global example of this policy is the UN enabling Greta to make an angry speech about the inaction of the world leaders, and praising her courage to the skies.

A more global example of this policy is the UN enabling Greta to make an angry speech about the inaction of the world leaders, and praising her courage to the skies.

Indeed, though I must say, even as a pretty cynical old fuck, I still found a potential glimmer of hope for a more radical approach from the young folk in said speech. Sure, the hope lies with the proles, but maybe with the youth too?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2019/sep/23/greta-thunberg-to-world-leaders-how-dare-you-you-have-stolen-my-dreams-and-my-childhood-video

I kind of hate the fact that they post these huge lumps of audio rather than breaking it up into manageable pieces, but anyway, from about 40-odd minutes to a bit past an hour here, IGD interview in an anarchist involved with XR Atlanta: https://itsgoingdown.org/this-is-america-88-we-only-want-the-world/
Interesting that they seem to voice criticisms of the UK XR group probably very similar to ones many people here might have - from about 1 hour 6 minutes in or so if you just want to listen to that bit.

An audio interview with some Vancouver anarchists about trying to relate to the new climate movements there, with links to a few other materials: https://fromembers.libsyn.com/climate-mobilizations-in-vancouver Could be some interesting stuff going on with the next one falling during the big official UCU strikes.

As another day of Global Climate protests is immanent I thought this extensive report and comment on an earlier expression of that movement in Australia was worth others reading (and of particular interest to me having only last year been in the Wollongong loca area). It's not an explicitly libertarian communist take on the events but works it's way through a number of concepts discussed on libcom from 'climate strikes', 'social strikes', 'disaster communism', 'just transition', 'solidarity adaptation' etc (if a bit too 'Plan C'). It illustrates well I thought the contradictions and problems that we all face in seeking to radically confront capitalism's combined assault on the environment and our economic health and the inevitable limitations of trying to find even partial solutions within largely local and national frameworks. But at least it shows people are trying to get their heads around the complexities in a practical way. Do read past the early event reporting and on to the problems with the local steel industry.
See here:
https://revoltsnow.wordpress.com/2019/10/23/strike-blockade-shut-it-down-reflections-on-the-wollongong-global-climate-strike/

The Manchester City centre 'Climate Strike' demo just now was a much smaller low-key event than last time despite the arrival of a small contingent of UCU strikers. The usual sprinkling of leftist groups fixated on the coming general election and no visible sign of any anarchists.

In London 4 ACGers handed out the London anarchist paper Rebel City in large numbers, with 2 other members of the Rebel City collective. Three other anarchists handed out the DIY newsheet alongside us. No sign of the Green Anticapitalist Front, but to be frank, there hasn't for the last few Climate STrike mobilisations in London.

Battlescarred

In London 4 ACGers handed out the London anarchist paper Rebel City in large numbers, with 2 other members of the Rebel City collective. Three other anarchists handed out the DIY newsheet alongside us. No sign of the Green Anticapitalist Front, but to be frank, there hasn't for the last few Climate STrike mobilisations in London.

I think they’ve been active in Bristol, though I don’t know much about it.

Trots were all over the Climate Strike like a rash, I counted SWP, SP, AWL, Socialist Appeal and Socialist Alternative (a recent split from the SP) . The left communists of the ICC also turned up.

Trots are everywhere in the Climate Strike stuff in Sydney too, most notably Socialist Alternative (unrelated to the UK ones) and Solidarity, which is the SWP's sister party here.

To be honest I'm kind of surprised the UK SWP is still going strong in numbers, I thought their rape cover-up and associated fallout would have decimated their membership. Do they still recruit from unis?

Yep