Holy Family of Libcom, a work in progress

Submitted by westartfromhere on February 26, 2025

This is an ongoing, open space for anyone to characterise the participants of Libcom, including oneself. Soory if anyone feels left out—Battlescarred,...—but for obvious reason we stopped at twelve. Far be it for us to blaspheme against the First Man of the Libcom Collective, its Iesu Kristos, JK.

westarfromhere — self-righteous, "crackpot", "mystic farmer", 'Khmer ["One who is wholesome"] Situationism: for a society without spectacles.'

fozzie — Haussmann

adri — Marxist-Engelist

steven — red fascist union, "wanker"

darren p — fawn of academic communism

Craftwork — Labourist

Fleur — jackboot

samfanto — absentist (the Absentist does not truly feel that nothing in the universe is good, but rather that neither of the two conventionally offered possibilities for virtue are good, and that there must be some kind of alternative.)

Indo — fetishist of KAPD

Red Marriott — nice fellah

Alf — Assisi

factvalue — account erased by management

factvalue wrote: Serge Forward

When Jews were sent to the gas chambers by the Nazis, this was not on the basis of their religious belief.

On what (real) basis then?

Rest in peace auldbold

adri

1 week 5 days ago

Submitted by adri on February 26, 2025

I was thinking "mystic farmer" for you, but self-righteous crackpot also works.

Craftwork

1 week 5 days ago

Submitted by Craftwork on February 27, 2025

I prefer Khmer Situationism: for a society without spectacles. 👓

Submitted by westartfromhere on February 27, 2025

Craftwork wrote:...for a society without spectacles. 👓

Although most perceptive of you, Crafty, my major concern—having been partially blinded in my right eye (anyone know why one eye should be affected and not the other?) by mobile phone use—are these little blue screens. The two modern conveniences are interconnected, as my blindness resulted from a visit to the optician, who advised against prolonged use of blue light emitting devices, and to keep such devices at a good distance. Both points of his advice I subconsciously contravened on a Saturday morning in bed. My only comfort is the one of my flesh, yourselves, and the words of masiah:

If your right eye should be your downfall, tear it out and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body thrown into sheol.

westartfromhere

1 week 5 days ago

Submitted by westartfromhere on February 27, 2025

Much appreciate your perceptive mystic farmer comment too, adri. What is not appreciated is a tendency, I perceive, for two personages to be combined in one, after the habit of the Christian doctrine that amalgamates three in one. Perhaps you, and the Church, are right, and are merely reconciling self-affirmation and objectification? Yet, shouldn't the holy Trinity, and Duality, be admitted of its female aspect, Menen, Mary and Lizzie, Helene and Jenny? Be made whole.


Submitted by westartfromhere on March 3, 2025

westartfromhere wrote:

Craftwork wrote:...for a society without spectacles. 👓

Although most perceptive of you, Crafty, my major concern—having been partially blinded in my right eye (anyone know why one eye should be affected and not the other?) by mobile phone use—are these little blue screens. The two modern conveniences are interconnected, as my blindness resulted from a visit to the optician, who advised against prolonged use of blue light emitting devices, and to keep such devices at a good distance. Both points of his advice I subconsciously contravened on a Saturday morning in bed. My only comfort is the one of my flesh, yourselves, and the words of masiah:

If your right eye should be your downfall, tear it out and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body thrown into sheol.

Not meaning to dominate you intellectually, but common sense told me, Yes, most people have one dominant eye, meaning their brain primarily relies on the visual input from one eye over the other, similar to how we have a dominant hand (left or right) for most tasks; this is a normal trait and is often referred to as "ocular dominance".

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 3, 2025

syndicalist wrote: Syndicalist - I am who I am.

Surely, the syndicalist is, I am because we are.

Submitted by syndicalist on March 3, 2025

What's the tin? Seemingly an over the pond expression.

Craftwork wrote:

syndicalist wrote: Syndicalist - I am who I am.

Syndicalist: does what is says on the tin.

adri

1 week ago

Submitted by adri on March 3, 2025

*rolls eyes* these Americans... It means 'what you see is what you get'. You better get with the programmmeee syndicalist, or else we're sending you to Coventry.

Submitted by goff on March 4, 2025

syndicalist wrote: What's the tin? Seemingly an over the pond expression.

Craftwork wrote:

syndicalist wrote: Syndicalist - I am who I am.

Syndicalist: does what is says on the tin.

lol, it’s the slogan for fence paint. This thread, and the many many others like it, are my worst fears of what anarcho society would be. It’d do your fucking head in.

westartfromhere

1 week ago

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 4, 2025

An anarchical society mediated through the World Wide Web is merely another appendage to capital: a part of the new digital order. Long will live Order!

Still, the echoes of an ancient communism reverberate through the fibre.

Submitted by syndicalist on March 4, 2025

Coventry used to have a militant workers tradition, if I recall.

Thanks for clueing me in everyone. And indeed, the tin is right

adri wrote: *rolls eyes* these Americans... It means 'what you see is what you get'. You better get with the programmmeee syndicalist, or else we're sending you to Coventry.

syndicalist

6 days 17 hours ago

Submitted by syndicalist on March 5, 2025

Whatever happened to Joseph Kay? They used to post a whole bunch

adri

6 days 16 hours ago

Submitted by adri on March 5, 2025

edit: Removing my reference to Kafka's Trial after realizing that something might have actually happened to him... I had also noticed that he stopped posting on twitter around 2019 and that he wasn't listed on this collective statement. I certainly hope he's doing alright. I thought the Out of the Woods articles (and book) were great stuff.

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 5, 2025

syndicalist wrote: Coventry used to have a militant workers tradition...

Whatever happened to Joseph Kay?

Still has. Tradition is passed on, 'Man's Immortality Lives in His Progeny Memories!'

Perhaps we can raise him from the dead (bourgie circle of friends)?

Submitted by Khawaga on March 5, 2025

syndicalist wrote: Whatever happened to Joseph Kay? They used to post a whole bunch

Forums are dead, so very few of those that used to post here frequently don't anymore (me included, I just lurk these days).

Submitted by syndicalist on March 6, 2025

Khawaga wrote:

syndicalist wrote: Whatever happened to Joseph Kay? They used to post a whole bunch

Forums are dead, so very few of those that used to post here frequently don't anymore (me included, I just lurk these days).

I actually miss the forums.

westartfromhere

5 days 9 hours ago

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 6, 2025

I think we are agreed on the principle that there should be no hierarchical division of labour and that any socially necessary menial tasks should be distributed in an egalitarian manner.

Joseph Kay, libcom.org responds

We do not want you to share our "socially necessary menial tasks", i.e. productive wage labour, "in an egalitarian manner". We are the working class, and it is labour that defines our class, and it is on this basis that we are imposing our dictatorship over you.

Unlike Herr Engels and Mr Kay, we are unprincipled.

adri

4 days 21 hours ago

Submitted by adri on March 6, 2025

Forums are dead, so very few of those that used to post here frequently don't anymore (me included, I just lurk these days).

I'm not sure if Kay's vanishing is just because people don't use the libcom forum as much as they used to. I don't guess it's any of our business really, but he sort of completely disappeared it seems around 2019 (here's his twitter). I guess someone could reach out to one of the Out of the Woods people to see what happened.

Submitted by Khawaga on March 6, 2025

syndicalist wrote:

Khawaga wrote:
syndicalist wrote: Whatever happened to Joseph Kay? They used to post a whole bunch

Forums are dead, so very few of those that used to post here frequently don't anymore (me included, I just lurk these days).

I actually miss the forums.

Me too.

Fozzie

3 days 22 hours ago

Submitted by Fozzie on March 7, 2025

There was some pretty horrible stuff in the old threads if you went back and read them. But at the same time forums on here and other places were a great source of information and an education in the noughties. As well as being places where I picked up a few friends.

Khawaga

4 days ago

Submitted by Khawaga on March 7, 2025

Yes, they were cesspits, but as Fozzie says, a great source of info and education. It's the latter I miss, but still, warts and all.

nastyned

4 days ago

Submitted by nastyned on March 7, 2025

I thought it a big missed opportunity. Loads of great stuff on the site and there were decent people on the forums. But it's still mostly it being a cesspit I remember.

Khawaga

3 days 21 hours ago

Submitted by Khawaga on March 7, 2025

Oh, I know people were turned off libcom due to the nastiness of the forums. They did improve considerably, but IIRC that was right before people migrated their discussions to Facebook.

westartfromhere

3 days 11 hours ago

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 8, 2025

Still remember the first words that I read of yours, Khawaga, directed to the Collective, with reference to a commentor critical of a Joseph Kay blog, "We've got a live one here"— follower of the Way in a pit of hungry lions. More Roman amphitheatre than cesspit.

Leo wrote, 13 years 5 months ago: Of course the way the critics of the official libcom line were treated was no different from any other time. The aggressive tone used reeks of loyalty...

To what and to whom, readers may discern themselves.

These discussion forums certainly set one up for the World Wide Web, this nest of vipers.

goff

3 days 5 hours ago

Submitted by goff on March 8, 2025

I read Bookchin’s Social Anarchism or Lifestyle Anarchism the other day and realised how influential it was on the forums. Exact same snidey way of talking to people who were ‘wrong’.

Probably a good time to revive it, it’s not like there’s competition and social media is on death’s door.

Agent of the I…

3 days 4 hours ago

Submitted by Agent of the I… on March 8, 2025

It seems nobody wants to address the fact that hundreds of old threads are no longer accessible. They don’t show up in any search. It looks like they have been deleted forever.

Submitted by goff on March 8, 2025

Agent of the International wrote: It seems nobody wants to address the fact that hundreds of old threads are no longer accessible. They don’t show up in any search. It looks like they have been deleted forever.

Search engines will show some threads that don’t appear in the internal search. Besides, don’t you want to abolish the past and create the future? Imagine the new permutations of arguments to be had now.

Agent of the I…

3 days 3 hours ago

Submitted by Agent of the I… on March 8, 2025

I have searched by both the internal search and by using google search, and still hundreds, maybe thousands of threads are missing. Also, new discussions can’t recreate all the valuable discussions that took place in those old threads. This forum had incredible posters whose contributions meant a lot to me. Now, I can’t find those posts. New discussions threads nowadays can’t come close due to the lack of posters willing to participate.

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 8, 2025

Agent of the International wrote: It seems nobody wants to address the fact that hundreds of old threads are no longer accessible. They don’t show up in any search. It looks like they have been deleted forever.

Deleted threads; deleted comments; deleted articles; nullified user accounts... It is theft of the producers' own intellectual property, pure and simple.

Also, by removing the ability for users of the site to trace their activity, as was possible on the previous format, only the administrators—the effective owners of the site—retain that function. The function of Private Messaging other users was also removed. It does beg the question, Who do these changes—this new permutation—benefit? Certainly not the common user of the site.

Perhaps these changes have had a positive effect of traffic on the site, but as no traffic reports are any longer forthcoming, who knows?

The worst danger is never the determined opponent, but one’s own compromise.

Craftwork

2 days 19 hours ago

Submitted by Craftwork on March 8, 2025

Who can forget those long forum posts by that one ex-ICCer who alleged the ICC raided his home and took back their mimeograph machines or whatever they were lol?

westartfromhere

2 days 10 hours ago

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 9, 2025

The discussions that spring up first in my memory are of those between the advocates of progress, apologist for the capitalist catastrophe, and those of regression, the primitivists, the ignorant romanticist. Don't recall a third voice, of the realists, in those debates. Here is an example of the inability of the progressive to distinguish between the tool and the machine, and the reason for being of each, usefulness and exchangeability, respectively:

Harrison wrote: but dino, they are not strawman arguments.

i''m sure every libertarian communist wants to live in harmony with the earth and phase out the destructive effects of technology upon man, but we have to recognise that technology is a mere extension of the first human tools (ie. a hammer was one of the first means of production to have been invented), and that technology has many liberating effects upon humans.

If anyone cares to follow this link, undoubtedly they will find an example of the primitivist's ignorance of the actual communalist society that predated the young pup, so-called civilisation, i.e. Asiatic class society.

Submitted by nastyned on March 9, 2025

Craftwork wrote: Who can forget those long forum posts by that one ex-ICCer who alleged the ICC raided his home and took back their mimeograph machines or whatever they were lol?

Mad as a box of frogs the ICC

https://libcom.org/history/open-letter-international-communist-current

I seem to remember they went very quiet when Ingram started posting here.

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 9, 2025

nastyned wrote:

Mad as a box of frogs the ICC

I only know the ICC on this site. Alf never struck me as mad. Never claimed to be the daughter of Henry VIII, or such like. Perhaps you should address your accusations to him?

The "logic of the asylum" (Ingram) is that the lunatics take over. Perhaps Ingram prefers the purveyors of Persian rugs over the anarchy that oftentimes holds sway on the wards?

Agent of the I…

2 days 4 hours ago

Submitted by Agent of the I… on March 9, 2025

The ICC were pretty big on the nonsensical idea of a semi-State.

Submitted by westartfromhere on March 9, 2025

Agent of the International wrote: The ICC were pretty big on the nonsensical idea of a semi-State.

Nonsense, fine, but don't belittle the suffering of the victims of psychiatric oppression with slurs like "barmy", "mad", "crackpot"... Please