Future of the Kurds

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meerov21
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Feb 21 2016 12:40
Future of the Kurds

Kurdish movement relies on the support of Assad and Russia. Kurds operation (together with Assad and Russians) against the opposition near the borders of Turkey can cause a massive Turkish attack.

"Bouthaina Shaaban, a senior advisor to Syrian President Bashar Assad, acknowledged the regime’s support of Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD). Shaaban has described PYD as an “allied force” for the regime and voiced the government’s satisfaction with cooperation with both Russia and PYD. “The YPG Kurdish units, the armed group of PYD, are cooperating with the Syrian army and Russian air forces to clear northern Syria of terrorism.” Bashar Jaafari, the regime envoy to UN have recently said “These Syrian Kurds supported by the American administration are also supported by the Syrian government, just for your kind information”. The Kurdish activist Rashad Mulla said in response to Shaaban’s declarations: ” Mrs. Shaaban hasn’t said anything new. The leaders of PYD said always that they are not willing to declare a Kurdish state inside Syria. They are fighting all rebel factions while coordinating with regime’s army.” “Those forces have no autonomy project, as they are fighting and expanding in areas outside their original territories (The cities and areas Kurds originally live in),” he added". (1)

But there is problem. Russian imperialism is weak. Russian group in Syria has 70 combat aircraft and few thousand soldiers. It has nothing to do against the coalition of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Just Turkey's Army has 500 thousand soldiers, 2 thousand tanks, and a powerful fleet in the Mediterranean, which is stronger than the Russian fleet in this sea, and 270 f-16 in the air. But it is not even the main thing.

Main supply line of this Russian group is Bosphorus strait controlled by Turkey. Turks have a huge strategic advantage. They can close Bosphorus and destroy russian communications. I'm using opinion of an independent Russian military experts: perhaps Russia can not go at war with Turkey today. Russian support may not be sufficient for the Kurds to protect them from Turkish attack If Turks will enter Syria.

But even if we assume Russia protects Kurds from Turkey, it would not protect them from Assad who is the main ally of Russia in the region. Assad does not need Kurdish autonomy. He will destroy it at the first opportunity, just as the Bolsheviks destroyed Makhnovshina and the independence of Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan in 1920-1921. The state belonged to the dictator Assad - Syrian Arab Republic - was built as a rigid centralised system, based on Arab nationalism. There is a little chance that Bashar Assad will use Rojava as a his tool against Turkey, just as his father Hafez Assad used PKK. But this is only a small chance.

But the main thing is the weakness of Russian imperialism....

I agree with Zaher Baher in some issues. Even the libertarian communalism of Murray Bookchin is a huge step forward for the Kurds. They have demonstrated libertarian communalism can be a viable platform for the development in the modern world (although, of course, there is no stateless society in Rojava) . 3 million people live in isolation, without hunger and they defending the region from the large forces of enemies during a few years. This experience based on the practice of local assemblies and cooperatives. It can be developed and used for the anarchist social revolutionary movement.

Unfortunately, I don't see how PKK\PYD\YPG movement can move forward. I see that it goes back to the nationalism and bourgeois politics (Zaher Baher) (2). The optimal thing would be to establish a libertarian-socialist and anarchist movement and to find ways for the development of an international class movement in the region, together with Turkish and Arab workers.

Isolated Kurdish nationalism, with its reliance on weak Russian imperialism can repeat the tragic fate of Armenian nationalism in 1915...

1) http://www.middleeastobserver.org/bouthaina-shaaban-kurdish-ypg-is-part-of-syrian-army

2) https://libcom.org/library/our-attitude-towards-rojava-must-be-critical-solidarity

rooieravotr
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Feb 21 2016 15:22

In general, I tend to agree with meerov21. However, let 's be careful with sources. I checked that middle east observer ting. In "about us" it says: "Middle East Observer is managed by a group of Middle East journalists and analysts, from the head office in Istanbul in Turkey.

The aim is to produce neutral and objective news from the Middle East, and at the same time give a basic background to the events."

And I ask: how can you expect "objective news"f rom a news outlet based in Istanbul, Turkey, under its current regime? If there would be anything in it that seriously annoyed Erdiogan, the thing would be attacked or closed down. And it suits Turkey/ Erdogan very much to paint the PYD as just a branch of the Assad state machine and/ or a Russian state-sponsored outfit

Mind you, I am not saying that the article is untrue. I have seen other articles, from other souces, pointing in the same direction. I am saying that this article, in itself, should not be relied upon. It has a whiff of state propaganda about it.

meerov21
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Feb 21 2016 16:11

In general, I tend to agree with meerov21. However, let 's be careful with sources.

Of course, check the source. Anything can happen.

But the cooperation of the Kurds, Assad and Russia is no longer a secret. In Russia Kurds officially opened a representative office and the official delegation of the Russian government was there. And Russian official said that they support a Kurdish state wich one day there will be.

"Here the representative office of the Syrian Kurdistan. But Kurdistan is a single space. The Kurds are one of the most numerous peoples of the Middle East, deprived of statehood. And, of course, the recognition of the fact that they play a leading role, including in the settlement of the Syrian conflict, will lead sooner or later to the fact that they will have their own state", - said the member of the Council under the RF President on interethnic relations Bogdan Bezpalko.
http://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/86367

Let me remind you that the main ally of Russia in Syria is Bashar Assad. And the latest offensive by Assad against the Syrian opposition is carried out simultaneously with the attack of the Kurds against the same groups. Would Russians open kurd's office in Moscow, if the Kurds did not cooperate with Assad and Russia in Syria?

meerov21
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Feb 21 2016 16:05

ТВЦ is an official Russian TV channel

http://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/86367

Spikymike
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Feb 21 2016 19:31

And which Kurds - in Turkey, in Iraq, in Syria, in Iran? See also this aspect of the conflict:
http://www.naturalgasasia.com/turkey-kurds-in-duel-over-energy-17741

Flint
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Feb 22 2016 04:10

Russian help is probably only in northern Aleppo where it is advantageous to Russia and the SAA if the SDF seals the border with Turkey. We might see air strikes coordinate as far east as Manbij and Jarabulus. East of the Euphrates, SDF benefits from U.S. air strikes. Still, its hard to say.

Also, Russia has stressed that it wants peace talks and realizes there are going to be some changes in Syria. Russia's resources for this conflict are limited and there a possibility that Assad and the PYD could work a deal. Russia has also stressed that it wants the YPG at the table, and for them to be across from Assad (not part of the regime's bargaining position).

So far, Turkey has only been willing to cross into Syria with proxies. They've had plenty of opportunity to do that. They haven't done it. It would be very unpopular domestically. Its hard to say how ambitious Erdogan has gotten or how willing he is to use violence to advance his agenda, but so far... he hasn't been willing to use the Turkish army to directly occupy any part of Syria.

There are rebels that support and joined the YPG through the SDF. There are rebel factions that have always opposed the YPG violently. The alliances haven't particularly changed, the the SDF and the Syrian Democratic Assembly have grown and a lot more Arabs are coming over either as tribal units or as part of the HXP or YPG.

There are some that have only opposed them politically through the KNC (KDPS/ENKS) but still worked with the PYD in Rojava and now form a minority political opposition.

There is actually a danger to what are the more social revolutionary aspects of TEV-DEM from the inclusion of more parties to the right of the PYD as well as armed groups. But including those groups they can work with is part of their balancing act of trying to be the multi-ethnic group they ideologically claim to be--and its also a great practical help. But they have to maintain cohesion, otherwise it would be just a big of a mess as the FSA.

They have other problems along those lines, like not being able to even expropriate the abandoned property of emigrants. On the other hand, the acquire vast amounts of formerly Baathist state owned property that gives them a lot more capital to work with than they've ever had. The Tishrin Dam, for example. Though their biggest success, though one a lot of folks probably don't realize the significance of, has been the take over of the public education system.

They do seem to make a real effort to spread their ideology, and spread it beyond Kurds.

The future is unwritten. Before it happened and while it was happening... most everything the PYD, TEV-DEM and the YPG have done even knowledgeable people thought was impossible. Even lots of folks involved with the movement thought that if things were going to kick off, it would be in Turkey.

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 12:27

Spikymike And which Kurds - in Turkey, in Iraq, in Syria, in Iran?

I am talking of course about PKK\PYD\YPG movement.
They opened an office in Moscow and cooperate with Russia and Assad. These is movement, which is dominant among the Kurds in Syria and Turkey (Rojava and Bakur).

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 13:09

Also, Russia has stressed that it wants peace talks and realizes there are going to be some changes in Syria. Russia's resources for this conflict are limited and there a possibility that Assad and the PYD could work a deal.

Yes, Makhno thought the same about the Bolsheviks and Spanish anarchists thought the same about the local Republic and the Stalinists...

Kurdish movement in Syria is not mahnovŝina. This is not an attempt to create a classless and stateless society. However, in case of victory of Assad I do not give a cent for the life of the Syrian Kurds. Asad need them now in the fight with the opposition, because Assad is weak. But if he will establish control over Syria, he will restore its resources and reorganize the army with the help of Russia and Iran.

Assad regime is a dictatorship based on Arab nationalism. What sort of Kurdish autonomy can be in such state? It's like talking about Jewish autonomy in tsarist Russia.

Theoretically, there is little chance that Assad will use Kurdish autonomy as the instrument for pressure on Turkey like his dad make a deal with PKK. But in 1998 Hafez Assad stopped doing it and expelled Ocalan, and Ocalan is in a Turkish prison.

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 13:06

There is actually a danger to what are the more social revolutionary aspects of TEV-DEM from the inclusion of more parties to the right of the PYD

First of all, PYD is not socio-revolutionary organization. They do not advocate a classless and stateless society. In Rojava there are Ministers and the government, and its Constitution written from the liberal standpoint, the protection of private property and it recognizes Rojava as a part of the Syrian state.
http://civiroglu.net/the-constitution-of-the-rojava-cantons/

In addition, the PYD leader Salih Muslim and other leaders of Rojava spoke out in defense of the ideas of the investments of rich people into the economy of Rojava.

"...Dr Ahmet Yusuf, the economics minister in Afrin Canton, said in his interview with the Huffington Post on December 18, 2015: "We will develop an economy based on agriculture, that is to say production. We will base this mode of production on a foundation by which all the peoples of the region will be included and benefit from it." Dr. Yusuf also told the PKK-linked Kurdish outlet ANF News last December, "We will encourage everyone to work their own lands based on the needs of the community." He continued, “Wealthy investors are welcome to contribute, by putting capital into various citizens' efforts to live off the land”, adding, ”since private enterprise is still part of the economy.”
http://libcom.org/library/our-attitude-towards-rojava-must-be-critical-solidarity

Secondly, there is danger of which you speak. I agree. In Kurdistan there are right-wing parties and the danger can come from them.

However, the risk of one-party system headed PYD can be even stronger. One-party system is Bolshevism and the road to hell. Because then one party takes all the resources under control and establishes a dictatorship in the economic and political system. So, at the moment the presence of other parties is in some way a positive factor. They can criticize the PYD.

So in regard to different parties in Rojava then there are both sides, positive and negative.

I don't want to talk about Rojava in terms of supporters of Gilles Dove ideas.
Probably local Assemblys, cooperatives, self-organization and direct democracy on the ground is the reality of Rojava. And it is very good. All that things can be a platform for the development of social revolution. But I doubt that PKK\PYD\YPG is interested in social revolution... Social revolution is nothing else then the creation of a classless and stateless society.

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mikail firtinaci
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Feb 22 2016 13:34
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Kurdish movement in Syria is not mahnovŝina. This is not an attempt to create a classless and stateless society. However, in case of victory of Assad I do not give a cent for the life of the Syrian Kurds. Asad need them now in the fight with the opposition, because Assad is weak. But if he will establish control over Syria, he will restore its resources and reorganize the army with the help of Russia and Iran.

Well if we look at the history of the relations between Syrian regime and PKK in Syria we see the contrary is the case. Syria supported PKK in its Turkish border regions (where the cantons are established today) and provided it with military bases. Until Ocalan was forced to escape he resided in Damascus. In fact, PKK owes its supremacy in Syria to the Baatist regime since it had a government supported political monopoly in Syria Kurdistan and together with the regime, they liquidated all the other Kurdish opposition parties.

If -and this is a big if since Turkey and its Sunni islamist allies will likely try to attack the regime in Syria - stability would somehow be consolidated there is every reason to assume a possible understanding between PKK and Esad may be reached. Don't forget that PYD is one of the few groups which did not fight with the regime since the beginning of the civil war.

edit: considering the joint operations of Russian-Syrian-PKK/PYD forces on the ground such an agreement concerning the future of Syria might have already been reached. A major source of conflict in the long run, however, might emerge among the Kurds themselves, between Ocalanists and Barzanists in South Kurdistan (Iraq) and West Kurdistan (Syria) and even in Northern Kurdistan (Turkey). And there is nothing ideological in this division. Neither are -obviously- islamists as Sunnis are but they have all the different interests since Barzani is more willing to accept Turkey as an ally and would like to see a weaker PKK. Barzani and AKP have important gas and oil agreements and PKK -at least now- is not gaining from these and strong friends who might like Barzani&Turkey alliance sabotaged; ie; an oil pipeline crossing the Turkish Kurdistan and reaching the Mediterranean sea.

Flint
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Feb 22 2016 16:40
meerov21 wrote:
http://civiroglu.net/the-constitution-of-the-rojava-cantons/
He continued, “Wealthy investors are welcome to contribute, by putting capital into various citizens' efforts to live off the land”, adding, ”since private enterprise is still part of the economy.”

Better descriptions of the political and economic organization currently in Rojava can be found in Pasewan.

Introduction to the Political and Social Structures of Democratic Autonomy in Rojava, Zanyar Omrani, Pasewan, 12/27/2015.

The Experience of Co-operative Societies in Rojava, TEV-DEM Economic Committee, Pasewan, 2/10/2016

It's not communism, despite their expropriation of some capital from the Syrian state. I'd like to see some documentation on what TEV-DEM is providing freely available and what communes are not co-operatives. The co-operatives described operate with market allocation, profit motive, some private investment (restricted beneath worker investment), difference in the amount of shares, etc... though on paper workers have some democratic control over the cooperatives and reap the largest share of profits. Its difficult to know even which cooperatives are paying the most without knowing the salaries (which aren't listed).

Let me describe what I mean. The pay out of profit on shares is either annually or after completing a big job. Looking at just two small cooperatives, the Fuel stations co-operative (100 members - share SYP 15,000/USD $69/150 KG of bread) and the Real estate construction co-operative (124 members - share SYP 730,000/USD $3,358/7,300 KG of bread). I'd speculate the fuel stations are paying out annually, while the construction co-operative is paying out per job. The buy in on the fuel station co-op is small, I'd speculate that their regular salaries make up most of their compensation with the annual profit being small. The construction workers have a high buy in for share, I'd speculate that their regular salary is small but they are getting large profit shares with regularly completing multiple projects a year.

A loaf of bread (1KG) in Hasakah is 100 SP/$0.52 USD.. Its as little as 50-60SP in Idlib or Damascus and as high as 3500SP Deir e-Zor (which is primarily supplied by air because it is besieged by Daesh). Crudely, 1 KG of bread is about 2,400 calories--and people's diets are typically 2K-3K calories daily.

The details of this probably seem unimportant to "full communists or nothing" but I suffer from a trade union consciousness and want co-operatives to be atleast as good as what workers in a unionized shop could achieve through adversarial activity against the bosses. Otherwise, co-operatives for all their workers self-management would be undercutting the efforts of unionized workers in a market.

Anyway, its not communism. Some kind of market socialism with an emphasis on worker-controlled cooperatives. Is it better or worse than other co-operatives? I can't tell. But we have different questions we can ask now.

Richard 1917
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Feb 22 2016 16:57

Not only crazy that the leftist scene (“Marxists” and “anarchists” mixed) supporting ad nauseam the so-called “Revolution in Rojava” are rather embarrassed to see their darlings PKK/PYD and their armed militias YPG/YPJ directly collaborating with the USA and now Russia, and not talking about the military offensives in the region of Aleppo conducted in close cooperation with the Syrian army (you know, that army led by Bashar al-Assad aka “the butcher of Damascus”!). Yes, it hurts to hear that, so some prefer to close their ears and eyes…

But some other take directly and courageously a stand. It's the case of famous Syrian “anarchist” Mazen Kamalmaz who wrote this:

Quote:
No to Turkish imperialist intervention
Long live US and Russian intervention, the friends of the nations and liberty

http://anarkismo.net/article/29105#comment16215

No comment for the moment from Anarkismo network who prefer to censor critical stands about Rojava.

May all capitalist States die: may the Turkish State die with its ferocious repression against populations revolted in the southeast of the country and elsewhere, may the Syrian State die and its massacres, may the States of USA, EU, Russia and Iran die, and may also all “progressive” and leftist States die: Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia as well as the “proto”-States like Rojava and Daesh…

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 22:57
mikail firtinaci wrote:
Quote:
Kurdish movement in Syria is not mahnovŝina. This is not an attempt to create a classless and stateless society. However, in case of victory of Assad I do not give a cent for the life of the Syrian Kurds. Asad need them now in the fight with the opposition, because Assad is weak. But if he will establish control over Syria, he will restore its resources and reorganize the army with the help of Russia and Iran.

Well if we look at the history of the relations between Syrian regime and PKK in Syria we see the contrary is the case. Syria supported PKK in its Turkish border regions (where the cantons are established today) and provided it with military bases. Until Ocalan was forced to escape he resided in Damascus. In fact, PKK owes its supremacy in Syria to the Baatist regime since it had a government supported political monopoly in Syria Kurdistan and together with the regime, they liquidated all the other Kurdish opposition parties.

If -and this is a big if since Turkey and its Sunni islamist allies will likely try to attack the regime in Syria - stability would somehow be consolidated there is every reason to assume a possible understanding between PKK and Esad may be reached. Don't forget that PYD is one of the few groups which did not fight with the regime since the beginning of the civil war.

I know this part of the story. I'm not arguing with the fact that PKK had collaborated with the dictator Hafez Assad, just as PKK\PYD\YPG is now collaborating with his son, the dictator Bashar Assad and Russian and Iranian forces.

But we must remember two things.

Firstly, Ocalan was forced to leave Syria in the late 1990s and his men could not act against Turkey from Syrian territory.

Secondly, and most importantly, the Syrian Kurdistan remained under the control of the Hafez Assad dynasty in that time. No autonomy for the Kurds and since the early 2000s clashes started between Kurds and Assad forces. It's one thing to use partisans against Turkey and quite another thing to give into the hands of these partisans big territory, through which all trade with Turkey is going on... almost the entire North of Syria with a population of 3 million.

PKK\PYD now controls the North of Syria with the help of 30 thousand militia of kurds (YPG) and Assad forces isolated in some areas there in Hasaka and Qamishli. As long as Assad is weak, he is ready to cooperate with Kurds against the opposition. But if he wins the civil war, why would he agree to lose 10% of Syrian territory?

For example, Bolsheviks entered into the agreement with Makhno, and with the Armenian nationalist party Dashnaktsutyun during the civil war. Dashnaks were allies and military partners of Bolsheviks in 1918-1920 and helped Kremlin to conquer the Caucasus and Central Asia. But in 1920-1921 Bolsheviks won civil war and then destroyed the Dashnaks, as the anarchists of Makhno.

Oriental despotism is not compatible with national or any other autonomy.

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 23:23

Flint Anyway, its not communism. Some kind of market socialism with an emphasis on worker-controlled cooperatives.

I largely agree with this. I advocate libertarian socialism or communism, for the production in accordance with the needs of the people, I am opposed to commodity production. But there is one problem.

There is a transition from market production, the production of commodity to the production of things according to the needs of the population. But in order to do that we need a new social structure. It can't be a centralized state. I completely reject the idea of bordigism, Lenin, other persons on the centralized distribution and the dictatorship of the party.

The workers themselves should control the production and infrastructure. It can be done only on the basis of direct democracy, cooperatives\communes and local assemblies, federalism. Such infrastructure partly exists in Rojava. And this is an interesting experience.

Of course, the PKK will not go from this experience towards a libertarian socialism, stateless society, production for human needs.

So I wrote "it can be a viable platform for the development in the modern world (although, of course, there is no stateless society in Rojava) . 3 million people live in isolation, without hunger and they defending the region from the large forces of enemies during a few years. This experience based on the practice of local assemblies and cooperatives. It can be developed and used for the anarchist social revolutionary movement".

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 21:00

Richard 1917 It's the case of famous Syrian “anarchist” Mazen Kamalmaz who wrote this: No to Turkish imperialist intervention
Long live US and Russian intervention, the friends of the nations and liberty

I can't comment on it, I have no words. This is crazy. Let him tell about it to the Vietnamese and Chechens, the Afghans and the Lithuanians, the Czechs and the Hungarians, the people of Iraq and people of Palestine.

meerov21
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Feb 22 2016 23:30

Anyway, its not communism. Some kind of market socialism with an emphasis on worker-controlled cooperatives. Is it better or worse than other co-operatives? I can't tell. But we have different questions we can ask now.

You know, Paris Commune in 1871 was only the Autonomous municipality, with strong local assemblies, which could re-elect the deputies, and with market relations in economy. There were also attempts to create workers cooperatives and their associations in Paris.

The elected heads of the Commune belonged either to the authoritarian factions of conspirators (blanquists), or to the supporters of market socialism and cooperatives (proudhonist\mutualists) or to the bourgeois Republicans - the Jacobins.

Commune was supported not only by workers, but also by the part of the bourgeoisie of Paris.

In the basis of the ideas of the Commune were not only the ideals of socialism, but also French nationalism and patriotism. Although a lot of foreigners fought for Commune, the population of the city accused the French government for betraying the national interests during the war with Prussia and this population supported defensism.

However, Marx and Kropotkin believed that the Paris Commune was a huge step towards the Communist society.

Perhaps the situation in Rojava worse than that time in Paris. However, why the social revolutionaries not to try use it to their advantage?

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mikail firtinaci
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Feb 23 2016 06:40
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For example, Bolsheviks entered into the agreement with Makhno, and with the Armenian nationalist party Dashnaktsutyun during the civil war. Dashnaks were allies and military partners of Bolsheviks in 1918-1920 and helped Kremlin to conquer the Caucasus and Central Asia. But in 1920-1921 Bolsheviks won civil war and then destroyed the Dashnaks, as the anarchists of Makhno.

Oriental despotism is not compatible with national or any other autonomy.

This comparison is totally pointless:

1) the Bolsheviks and anarchists were NOT bourgeois ideologies. They were supported by and fought for workers and poor peasants.
2)They were proxies to no imperialist order. On the contrary, Bolsheviks for their part fought against Japanese, American, German, British and French imperialisms throughout the civil war.
3)And most importantly there was a revolution against the world war in Russia.
4) Workers' Soviets were the constitutive organs that held power in the Soviet union though their power gradually eroded and crushed by the state. The only ally of the soviet regime in these early years were the working class anarchist, syndicalist or left/internationalist social democratic parties around the world.

1)Esad and PKK are proxies of this or that imperialism.
2)There is no proletarian revolution in Syria but an imperialist war which undermined a potential insurrection.
3) PKK and Esad are capitalist forces that reproducing the logic and imposing the order of world capitalism by reestablishing national borders and social/class distinctions.
4) There are no working class institutions, but national cantons in Rojava. PYD regime only recognizes national groups, tribes, bourgeois parties or states as political agents and allies with them without any legitimate excuse and concern for the future of world working class.

baboon
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Feb 23 2016 12:37

The future of the Kurds is to be betrayed and slaughtered just like the time before and the time before that. Of course some elements of the Kurdish bourgeoisie will come out of this imperialist swamp with enhanced positions, power and financial gain. But the vast majority, drugged by a national identity which facilitates its coherence as an imperialist force (with its own agenda - these are not just pawns, but active imperialist elements) will pay the price. Not least its cannon-fodder which is being sacrificed for an ultimately reactionary Kurdish dream.

meerov21
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Feb 23 2016 13:54

1) the Bolsheviks and anarchists were NOT bourgeois ideologies. They were supported by and fought for workers and poor peasants.

The state of the Bolsheviks in the 1918-1921 was not proletarian and not represented the interests of the majority of the working people and pesants of Russia. First of all, because the state cannot be a proletarian and to represent the interests of the class. The state the Bolsheviks were a centralized machine of bureaucracy, who owned factories in urban and rural areas, cruelly exploited the workers and peasants. Unbelievable but true, in 1921, Russian workers suffered from the new version of Serfdom (Russian tsars had abolished it in 1861). The workers received tiny food rations and had no right voluntarily to change jobs. During the strike they were arrested. (Petrograd workers and the "dictatorship of the proletariat". October 1917-1929. The collection of documents http://eknigi.org/istorija/180637-piterskie-rabochie-i-diktatura-proletariata-oktyabr-1917-1929-sbornik-dokumentov.html ) Elections to the Soviets of workers ' deputies were falsified like in Petrograd (RABINOVICH, ALEXANDER - THE BOLSHEVIKS IN POWER http://profilib.com/kniga/129803/aleksandr-rabinovich-bolsheviki-u-vlasti-pervyy-god-sovetskoy-epokhi-v-petrograde.php) or counciles have been terminated like in Tambov or Ijevsk or Samara (in Samara sr-maksimalists dominated in the local counsel) in spring-summer 1918, critics of the Bolsheviks were not able to participate. Soviet power was destroyed and dictatorship of the state bureaucracy in the economy and politics was established the core of which was the leadership of the Bolshevik party headed by Lenin.

It was a brutal system of domination of bureaucracy and exploitation. The state of Lenin led a war of conquest in the Caucasus, Ukraine, Central Asia. During these wars, the state had first worked with the largest Armenian party, Dashnaktsutyun, but after the victory destroyed her. And here is the analogy with the Kurds and Assad.

Bolsheviks for their part fought against Japanese, American, German, British and French imperialisms throughout the civil war.

No. After the signing of the Brest peace, the state of the Bolsheviks became an ally of German imperialism. The Bolsheviks not only made peace with Germany. They signed a commitment to provide Germany with a huge amount of food and other goods.

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bakuninja
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Feb 23 2016 14:55

Interesting stuff on the PYD: http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2016/2/22/democratic-confederalism-or-counter-revolution

The book he wrote together with somebody involved in the Tahrir-ICN blog also seems really important: http://www.plutobooks.com/display.asp?K=9780745336220

Flint
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Feb 23 2016 19:51
bakuninja wrote:
Interesting stuff on the PYD: http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2016/2/22/democratic-confederalism-or-counter-revolution

The book he wrote together with somebody involved in the Tahrir-ICN blog also seems really important: http://www.plutobooks.com/display.asp?K=9780745336220

He also wrote:

Quote:
"Apparently Turkey is using heavy artillery against the PYD in Azaz and Afrin. I do not oppose it. The PYD has been invading Arab-majority areas under heavy Russian bombing. It would be disastrous for civilians in Aleppo and Idlib as well as for the Turkish state if the PYD occupied the entire border."

Robin Yassin-Kassab

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Devrim
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Feb 23 2016 19:55

"Apparently Turkey is using heavy artillery against the PYD in Azaz and Afrin. I do not oppose it. The PYD has been invading Arab-majority areas under heavy Russian bombing. It would be disastrous for civilians in Aleppo and Idlib as well as for the Turkish state if the PYD occupied the entire border."

I don't think that the Turkish state has anything positive to offer.

Devrim

Flint
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Feb 23 2016 20:30
Devrim wrote:

I don't think that the Turkish state has anything positive to offer.

Devrim

For once, we are in agreement.

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Devrim
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Feb 23 2016 21:18
Flint wrote:
Devrim wrote:

I don't think that the Turkish state has anything positive to offer.

Devrim

For once, we are in agreement.

The Turkish state is obviously a blood soaked terrorist state. It's actions I've recent months in Kurdish cities in the southeast of this country are little short of genocidal. I think you ar wrong. I think that there are no working class or socialist sides in this war. I would still sit down, and gave a friendly drink and conversation on this subject with people who hold your sort of views. I wouldn't with people who think that Turkish intervention is positive in any way.

Devrim

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bakuninja
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Feb 24 2016 11:10
Flint wrote:
bakuninja wrote:
Interesting stuff on the PYD: http://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2016/2/22/democratic-confederalism-or-counter-revolution

The book he wrote together with somebody involved in the Tahrir-ICN blog also seems really important: http://www.plutobooks.com/display.asp?K=9780745336220

He also wrote:

Quote:
"Apparently Turkey is using heavy artillery against the PYD in Azaz and Afrin. I do not oppose it. The PYD has been invading Arab-majority areas under heavy Russian bombing. It would be disastrous for civilians in Aleppo and Idlib as well as for the Turkish state if the PYD occupied the entire border."

Robin Yassin-Kassab

That's stupid, but doesn't make his article less interesting?

Flint
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Feb 24 2016 16:03
bakuninja wrote:
That's stupid, but doesn't make his article less interesting?

If someone is going to support army of Turkey shelling Afrin then you might want to take what they have to say about the PYD with a grain of salt. Perhaps look more carefully at their sources and not accept any statement they say as factual without some evidence. Pretty much the only fact linked in the article was the YPG soldiers shooting at that demonstration in Amunde in 2013; something that was well documented in the HRW report "Under Kurdish Rule".

If you follow Yassin-Kassab in regards to the war, he has become either more indifferent or sympathetic to the Salafi jihadists that are intermixed with FSA in Northern Aleppo in contrast to SAA/NDF. His position on "Kurdish Militias" used to be more neutral, but he has become increasingly hostile to the PYD. He seems to have ignored how the PYD has successfully expanded politically to include Arabs and Syriacs through the Syrian Democratic Assembly/Syrian Democratic Forces, and some of that outeach very much involves supporting Arab units and mixed units taking over territory that is ethnically majority Arab. When they were taking it from Daesh, Yassin-Kassab didn't care so much. Now that after years of enduring attacks in Afrin in Sheikh Maqsood by the likes of Nusra, Ahrar ash-Sham and their allies of varying degrees of Salafi Jihadism and Sharia... SDF/Jaysh al-Thuwar/YPG finally succeeded in taking the Menagh airbase and some towns to the east.

Yassin-Kassab seems particularly dependent upon the positions of the Syrian National Council and he, like the SNC, holds up the KNC as the Kurdish alternative to the PYD/TEV-DEM. The KNC is dominated by the KDPS/Barzani. The SNC is largely joked about as some suits in hotel rooms in Turkey.

There are better critiques of the PYD than this piece Yassin-Kassab put out. Many of them have been discussed here on Libcom.

If you want to use Yassin-Kassab, then expect people to point out his support for Turkey shelling Afrin.

What parts of his piece did you find interesting?

meerov21
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Feb 25 2016 01:52

First of all, I would like to say that I agree with Devrim at this point:
"I don't think that the Turkish state has anything positive to offer".

I can say the same about others.

It's true that Russian aircraft have bombed Aleppo. But it is also true that Turkey has shelled Kurdish towns and villages.

Sure I'm not defending neither American nor Russian nor Turkish imperialism. In political terms, all of them bad for social revolution. The same way one Middle East anarchist thinks (I discussed this issue with him). So, the thing written below is limited to the analysis. It is not what we want.

Middle East anarchist:
In fact Rojava has no future under US and Western countries plan neither now nor in future but may be 50% under Russia. I agree that Russia is very weak comparison to Neto or even US alone. but i think Russia uses the right tactic to gain their strategy in very clever and crucial way. Look at Georgia, Ukraine Russia was winner and now it will be Russia the winner again in Syria as in the end Neto , US have to compromise and abandon their plan in dropping Assad... Please note that this is not my wish , i am just saying while they do politics not social revolution... I still must say i agree with you in your point that Kurdish people had no future in Rojava as they have been used again as before in the history.

Me:
As for the possibilities... Well, I see two problems.

First, if Assad take control of the all the territory of Syria he would deal with the Kurds but at the end, he doesn't need them at all because he considered Rojava land is his own. Also Russia's main ally in Syria is Assad and not the Kurds and in such conflict between kurds and Asad Russia will not realy protect kurds.

And second. Yes, Russian imperialism has managed to hold on part of Georgia and part of Ukraine. But now in the context of the economic crisis intensified by sanctions he quickly weakens and loos the might. It is going through an economic storm, it's a disaster. You have no idea how serious the economic recession in Russia and how hopeless. It's not just the sanctions and not only the low oil prices, this is a structural crisis started in 2013.

There is corruption at the level of Africa, massive capital flight, high tax which destroys small and medium businesses, inefficient state-owned industry (from 40 to 60% of the money "kickbacks" - this is like stolen money calledl in Russia) in a country where the government according to the IMF controls 70% of GDP, high inflation and rising unemployment. This is stagflation, and the government lost control over the economy.

And I would add one more thing. USA today refuses direct massive military interventions similar to Iraq and Afghanistan. So Russian imperialism entered the war in Georgia and Ukraine not with Americans but (in general) with weak local States. For example U.S. even refused for 2 years to supply lethal weapons to Ukraine!

It is not a secret that Putin despises Obama and thinks him weak and "not man". So Putin is trying to perform various operations before the change of administration in the United States.

But in Syria for the first time Russia faced another tough and strong imperialism - Turkey. And this changes the situation, because Turkey is very different from Georgia and Ukraine.

And it now poses a threat to the great imperialist war.

meerov21
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Feb 27 2016 14:06

baboon
The future of the Kurds is to be betrayed and slaughtered just like the time before and the time before that.

It can be like this...

rooieravotr
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Feb 28 2016 17:14

https://mkaradjis.wordpress.com/2016/02/28/the-kurdish-pyds-alliance-with-russia-against-free-aleppo-evidence-and-analysis-of-a-disaster/ Some relevant info, I am afraaid.

bastarx
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Feb 29 2016 10:45

FWIW that Karadjis clown has a long history of supporting dubious nationalist movements, for instance he wrote a bunch of articles for the the shitty Australian Leninoid paper Green Left Weekly supporting the KLA back in the late 90s.

rooieravotr
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Feb 29 2016 12:56

Thanks .Yes, I am aware of his politics, Bastardx., although I did not know about his KLA fanhood... He 's some sort of Trotskyist., and he is way too positive about the "Syrian revolution", seeing revolutionary dynamics where others see mostly ( and realistically) jihadist dominance. Yet, he seems rather well-informed, and what he writes about the PYD here seems convincing. At the very least, there is a case to answer.