Egyptian uprising - updates and discussion

Suez workers in several factories r on strike, calling for the overthrowal of Mubarak.

This sounds quite positive. Also on revleft, someone posted something like this:

REVOLUTION: [SocialJusticeNV] URGENT MESSAGE FROM EGYPT

This is why it is the *organized working-class* which must lead any
revolution against the bourgeoisie and their order: because it is the
*workers* who truly control the functioning of the electricity and
water and telecom services, etc. Without their say-so, NOTHING would
run in a modern city or society. Unorganized uprising, OTOH, is to be
expected -- in the beginning -- after decades of class treason at the
top of the working-class; but *it can only go so far* in its
'objectives' without in some way being *organized* -- i.e. having a
plan and a goal for seizing control of society from the various
grasping and bloody-minded 'national' capitalist oligarchies.

The working-class of Misr (Egypt) nust seize control of the
infrastructure of the cities and of the country. And by force of arms,
if necessary. By ANY means necessary.

All Power to the Workers' and Farmers' Councils and Communes.

-- grok.

Does anyone have any info on the situation in Mahalla?

Tantawi is now Minister of Defence and Military Production. Live on Egyptian TV. Source: "This might trigger some heat."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Hussein_Tantawi

So no chance of a split amongst the military rank and file then?

According to tabula gazza, no:

"At some stage the military is going to stop acting as a mediating force and will try to take direct control. I have no illusions that they are acting as anything but a vessel for this sort of "stability" that the global North desires. In Egypt we are no longer in the age of military coups, it is not a question of who has the most influence within the military and what they can get away with, it is a matter of the interests of external forces are and these external forces are looking for the right partner within the current Egyptian regime. What does this mean on the ground? There will be harsh clashes between demonstrators against the military who will quickly switch sides."

Where is the info about strikes in Suez coming from?
edit: found it already, its in the 3arabawy Twitter chain just mentioned

Egyptians form makeshift militias to stop looters

In answer to leo's question on Mahallah, I found this (BBC, at 1032 ):

"We're getting reports of preparations for a large demonstration in Mahalla al Kubra, an industrial city north of Egypt. The city is home to many textile and gas factories. There was rioting last night near some of the factories, and reports of army reinforcements arriving at one of the main textile factories.

Guardian reporting that as El Baradei spoke there were "a notable number (who) chanted anti-ElBaradei slogans, asking 'how can you steal our revolution now?'

Samotnaf

I know the Muslim Brotherhood have been hardly present during this movement, and most people are saying that this is because they don't know what to do. But maybe they're also playing a more long-term strategy; if the liberal democrats round ElBaradei get into power and dampen down the movement (concentrating on political reforms rather than social reforms related to survival) they could recuperate the very likely resurgence of social contestation into Islamic fundamentalist perspectives. Sure this is jumping the gun and is pretty much off the top of my head as my knowledge of Egypt is very very limited, but maybe it's worth considering, no?

Worth considering, yes. Likely, no. It is more probable that a Baradei led government will open up for the MB to legally take part in the political process either in a national unity government or simply part of the liberal democratic process. The MB doesn't want social unrest. They're also the party for the petit-bourgeoisie, for national unity, against divisions in the (Egyptian) Ummah and so on. The last 20 years or so they have been focusing on providing social welfare/charity (zakat) to build a constituency rather than agitating against the government's economic policies.

The MB's reaction to these protests were the same as their reactions to the original Mahallah uprising; late grudging support when they realize they have to.

here is another analysis:

https://intheabsenceoftruth.noblogs.org/post/2011/01/30/two-revolts-tunisia-and-egypt-201011/

In Egypt, too, it is not about the president; had it been about the president, all this had never happened. One could see (if one could see) a steady build-up of radical opposition activity over the last years; even including fully blown workers insurrections; and none of the so called opposition organizations, not the jaded character masques of the lefts (left-behinds form Arab revolutionary history themselves, too, around the infamous Kifaya coalition), and not the way more powerful Ikhwan al muslimun (the main organisation of Islamism) has been in any position to speak for these movements. To the contrary, their attempts to mobilize for demonstrations, even to call a general strike on the anniversaries of the uprising at Mahala al kubra had met no measurable response.

...

Reports confirmed on BBC 8 o'clock GMT of protests spreading in Mahalla.
Egyptian workers get their monthly pay tomorrow - or should do, that will be interesting.

From similar reports there seems to a concensus from the protesters that the state has released organised forces of intimidation as well as dangerous criminals, some with machine-guns. One young woman called it "terror". The degree of self-organisation is also great, not least because it is conscious of provocations and, what was called, "thugs" attacking and looting. One resident on neighbourhood watch the BBC quoted, said that his was a middle-class area bordering on an upper class area with the ghetto behind. He said that they weren't afraid of the ghetto but of the thugs. He said he respected the know-how of the ghetto and he and his group were working with them on joint patrols with mutually identifying symbols. Along with and from this self-organisation has clearly arisen the question of arms.

baboon

"thugs"

These thugs are hired by the police and secret services. They are the provocation and have always been used for that. Back in the day when I went to protests in Cario there was always a large presence of ordinary cops and the baltagiya (i.e. thugs) that were lined up in neat formations next to the actual police. The baltagiya were often used to break up protests rather than tear gas and water cannons.

union initiative

People

agreed to hold a press conference at 3:30pm this afternoon in Tahrir Square next to Omar Effendi Company store in downtown Cairo to announce the organization of the new Federation of Egyptian Trade Unions and to announce the formation of committees in all factories and enterprises to protect, defend them and to set a date for a general strike.

from the NYT:

The Egyptian uprising, which emerged as a disparate and spontaneous grass-roots movement, began to coalesce Sunday, as the largest opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood, threw its support behind a leading secular opposition figure, Mohamed ElBaradei, to negotiate on behalf of the forces seeking the fall of President Hosni Mubarak.

and, following kind of on what khawaga said,

Many have darkly suggested that the government was behind the collapse of authority as a way to justify a crackdown or discredit protesters’ calls for change.

“We’re worried about the chaos, sure,” said Selma al-Tarzi, a 33-year-old film director who had her joined friends in Liberation Square. “But everyone is aware the chaos is generated by the government. The revolution is not generating the chaos.”

Still, driven by reports of looting, prison breaks and rumors that swirled across Cairo, fed by Egyptian television’s unrelenting coverage of lawlessness, it was clear that many feared the menace could grow worse, and might even undermine the protesters’ demands.

(bold mine)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/world/middleeast/31-egypt.html?_r=1&hp

http://twitter.com/monasosh/status/31766566227939328

I don't know why did we have police in the 1st place.We seem to be taking good care of each other,organizing traffic,cleaning streets

It strikes me that - assuming people's suspicions about the government creating chaos through looting and 'lawlessness' are correct - we're looking at a kind of 'strategy of tension', conducted in a dispersed, 'low-level', but well-reported way.

Going back to the 'strategy of tension' as it has been understood in its 'classic' form - as a state response to the wave of social contestation in Italy in 1969, elaborated over the years - there are differences. So, we have the bomb in the Piazza Fontana, blamed by the state/media on anarchists, which kills many - a spectacular act which effectively stops a social movement in its tracks (as well as leading to the police murder of 'suspect', anarchist railworker, Giuseppe Pinelli). This conspicuous outrage helped discipline a movement 'from the top down' as 'spectacle' (an outrage subsequently proven to have been carried out by a fascist, but as an agent of the state, I believe).

I think Debord's definitions of the concentrated and diffuse spectacle, and their ultimate coalescence into integrated spectacle, may be useful tools to interpret such practices, although this thread isn't the right place to elaborate fully what is more than a hunch on my part (nor an extended definition of these terms - yet - I'm knackered... In short, the concentrated spectacle was characteristic of Stalinist state capitalism, while the diffuse was characteristic of 'Western democracies'). Debord saw Italy as a laboratory of new forms of repression, prefiguring the integrated spectacle he identified in his Comments. The possibly state-sanctioned 'lawlessness' which seems to dog the social movement in Egypt - information potentially transmitted to every home and portable communication device by state media - I think may be a 'bottom-up' (as opposed to 'top-down' Piazza Fontana-style spectacular) strategy of tension. It's all the more pernicious for the fact that it shades into 'genuine' manifestations of social contestation in the forms of the proletarian looting of supermarkets (played out at the level of everyday survival and refusal of commodity relations), as well as the retributive ransacking of the mansions of Mubarak's relatives. It niggles at everyone on the streets/Tahrir Square at an individualised level, in a way that a Piazza Fontana-style act wouldn't.

Just some thoughts...

NBC's man in cairo characterizes this as an unemployed and working class rebellion, led neither by students nor religious. those here familiar with the american mass media will know what a jolt it is to hear the working class credited with assertive, even positive, action.

however he also harped on the themes of looting and increasing "vigilantism" to stop it.

While it seems that many Egyptians feel that the looting and terror is coming from government forces, and while we must be mindful of the 'strategy of tension' tactic that has been used by the state in the past, we should be careful not to overextend this analysis. After all, at least some of the looting is surely being done by non-government agents.

I don't think this should be surprising given the material conditions of the working class in Egypt. While the appropriation of commodities and the burning of shops is not nearly as powerful or exciting as, say, militant workers councils, this form of proletarian self-activity can be just as clear an expression of class antagonisms.

While looting, street actions and prison breaks all have consequences for Egyptian unity and the international support for the uprising amongst the bourgeois press and Western governments, I think it's shallow to chalk it all up to the actions of agent provocateurs.

Check this report by the New York Times:

New York Times

Driven by reports of looting, prison breaks and rumors that swirled across Cairo, fed by Egyptian television’s unrelenting coverage of lawlessness, it was clear that many feared the menace could grow worse, and might even undermine the protesters’ demands.

“I wish we could be like the United States with our own democracy, but we can’t,” said Sarah Elyashy, a 33-year-old woman in the neighborhood of Heliopolis, where men armed with broomsticks and kitchen knives took to the streets to defend their homes against the threat of looters. “We have to have a ruler with an iron hand.

Now, I don't know a thing about the social geography of Cairo, but this Heliopolis district is the home of Mubarak and seems to be quite wealthy district. This woman is clearly on the side of the dictatorship and these militia are being formed to defend their property in the absence of those who normally defend it - the police.

Are the people they fear are coming for their homes undercover agents or angry proletarians? It is too soon and we are too far away to judge.

Schwarz

Now, I don't know a thing about the social geography of Cairo, but this Heliopolis district is the home of Mubarak and seems to be quite wealthy district.

Heliopolis (Misr Gedida) is a mix of wealthy, middle class and poor people. While the presidential palace is at the outskirts of this area there are plenty of pockets of your typical urban poor. As far as I can tell the formation of militias to defend property/homes/museums etc. has happened all over Cairo in both poor and rich areas, though more in the latter. I've yet to find many accounts of what is happening in the "slums" (ashwayaat) or in working class only areas such as Imbaba.

In any case, I am sure that a lot of very wealthy Egyptians are pissing their pants.

Schwarz said:

While it seems that many Egyptians feel that the looting and terror is coming from government forces, and while we must be mindful of the 'strategy of tension' tactic that has been used by the state in the past, we should be careful not to overextend this analysis. After all, at least some of the looting is surely being done by non-government agents.

I don't think this should be surprising given the material conditions of the working class in Egypt. While the appropriation of commodities and the burning of shops is not nearly as powerful or exciting as, say, militant workers councils, this form of proletarian self-activity can be just as clear an expression of class antagonisms.

While looting, street actions and prison breaks all have consequences for Egyptian unity and the international support for the uprising amongst the bourgeois press and Western governments, I think it's shallow to chalk it all up to the actions of agent provocateurs.

Are the people they fear are coming for their homes undercover agents or angry proletarians? It is too soon and we are too far away to judge.

I agree with this analysis.

While looting, street actions and prison breaks all have consequences for Egyptian unity and the international support for the uprising amongst the bourgeois press and Western governments, I think it's shallow to chalk it all up to the actions of agent provocateurs.

Any speculation on my part in my previous post (and from this distance, it is just speculation - 'too far away to judge') about perceptions and motives of 'looted'/'looters' isn't based on handwringing about the disruption of national unity and pandering to the bourgeois press and Western governments, though you're quite right to flag this up as concerns of middle class nationalists wanting liberal democracy (reading between the lines of your post). I'm certainly not 'chalking it all up to the actions of agent provocateurs' - there must be a very strong element of proletarian reappropriation, which I support, an element which is easily diverted into the discourse of 'law and order' as a bogeyman. Nevertheless, to speculate on the extent of state involvement is valid, even if rumour is all we've got to go on.

what do people think--

at times like this i am slightly inclined to believe that there is some vague kernel of truth in the fukuyama thesis. The reason I say this is simply that Tianamen square is not an option for Egypt at the moment, and this must be a good thing. Hilary Clinton says that there must be an ordered transition to democracy. However wavering the Americans may have been, it appears likely that they cannot afford to have their man in egypt, mubarek, sustaining himself through an atrocity. I read John Simpson from the bbc arguing this: that the us administration will have told mubarek "in no uncertain terms" that tianamen square is "not an option". In this sense, I am relieved that, in spite of the many problems remaining, certain brutalisms seem to be becoming less and less permissible.

what are your thoughts?

I'm told that BBC radio yesterday reported some demonstrators on the Manchester student demo wearing t-shirts with the slogan "walk like an Egyptian".

https://intheabsenceoftruth.noblogs.org/post/2011/01/31/two-revolts-egypt-part-ii/

a new comment:

In much the same way, another form of sel-organization sprang into existence: workers factories commitees, at least in the industrial strongholds, where workers unites to defend (we could translate that as: occupy) their workplace, and to organize a general strike. From these circles the attempt to form independent labor unions started, too.

These developements are significant in that there existed, at this stage, no more state control over parts of the life of society. People were given the opportunity, and the obligation, to organize themselves.

It seems that if there is a criterion defining social revolution in contrast to mere political revolution, that is this criterion. What we are facing, in Egypt, today, is a full blown social revolution.

Judging from how the Iranian revolution went wrong, back in 1979, you can already deduce that there is a danger, deeply entrenched in the twofold structure of this new and spontaneuos self-organization. The two branches, if you will, might tend to go different ways, because they represent totally different needs, and experience a total different dynamic; and this could be used to eventually undo them.

Khawaga

Schwarz

Now, I don't know a thing about the social geography of Cairo, but this Heliopolis district is the home of Mubarak and seems to be quite wealthy district.

Heliopolis (Misr Gedida) is a mix of wealthy, middle class and poor people. While the presidential palace is at the outskirts of this area there are plenty of pockets of your typical urban poor. As far as I can tell the formation of militias to defend property/homes/museums etc. has happened all over Cairo in both poor and rich areas, though more in the latter. I've yet to find many accounts of what is happening in the "slums" (ashwayaat) or in working class only areas such as Imbaba.

In any case, I am sure that a lot of very wealthy Egyptians are pissing their pants.

Thanks for the word on Heliopolis, my info was just based on a wikipedia search! :p

Wellclose Square

Any speculation on my part in my previous post (and from this distance, it is just speculation - 'too far away to judge') about perceptions and motives of 'looted'/'looters' isn't based on handwringing about the disruption of national unity and pandering to the bourgeois press and Western governments, though you're quite right to flag this up as concerns of middle class nationalists wanting liberal democracy (reading between the lines of your post). I'm certainly not 'chalking it all up to the actions of agent provocateurs' - there must be a very strong element of proletarian reappropriation, which I support, an element which is easily diverted into the discourse of 'law and order' as a bogeyman. Nevertheless, to speculate on the extent of state involvement is valid, even if rumour is all we've got to go on.

Yeah you caught the subtext of my post. Sorry I wasn't more clear on that, I wasn't casting aspersions on you or your analysis. I agree that it is valid to speculate on what is proletarian self-activity and what is provocation.

The Western bourgeois press is indeed in a tizzy about the appropriations and 'law and order'.

Here is a piece in the NY Times about Egypt and markets.

NY Times

On Wall Street, [the Egyptian revolt] is what is known as an exogenous event — a sudden political or economic jolt that cannot be predicted or modeled but sends shockwaves rippling through global markets.

Of course it is exogenous for Wall Street and their economists, for all their theories and algorithms they don't recognize that class struggle is endogenous to capitalism.

I hope the rich are pissing their pants in Egypt, Syria, New York, London and beyond.

Oh shit, then there is this from the New York Times:
Elite Areas Attacked in Class War.

As the government of Egypt shakes from a broad-based uprising, long-simmering resentments have burst into open class warfare.

Strong words from a paper that barely acknowledges the existence of class.

“These big guys are stealing all the money,” said Mohamed Ibraham, a 24-year-old textile worker standing at his second job as a fruit peddler in a hard-pressed neighborhood called Dar-al-Salam. “If they were giving us our rights, why would we protest? People are desperate.”

He had little sympathy for those frightened by the specter of looting. He complained that he could barely afford his rent and said the police routinely humiliated him by shaking him down for money, overturning his cart or stealing his fruit. “And then we hear about how these big guys all have these new boats and the 100,000 pound villas. They are building housing, but not for us — for those people up high.”

Good eye, Mohamed, good eye!

Came here to post that exact article@

Schwarz

Oh shit, then there is this from the New York Times:
Elite Areas Attacked in Class War.

As the government of Egypt shakes from a broad-based uprising, long-simmering resentments have burst into open class warfare.

Strong words from a paper that barely acknowledges the existence of class.

“These big guys are stealing all the money,” said Mohamed Ibraham, a 24-year-old textile worker standing at his second job as a fruit peddler in a hard-pressed neighborhood called Dar-al-Salam. “If they were giving us our rights, why would we protest? People are desperate.”

He had little sympathy for those frightened by the specter of looting. He complained that he could barely afford his rent and said the police routinely humiliated him by shaking him down for money, overturning his cart or stealing his fruit. “And then we hear about how these big guys all have these new boats and the 100,000 pound villas. They are building housing, but not for us — for those people up high.”

Good eye, Mohamed, good eye!

So it is looking like there's a very strong proletarian content to this... that's good.

Twitter

I walked back from Tahrir to Nasr City yesterday, saw popular committees. Many shabab with swords said they'll kill cops if they show up.

Thousands of leaflets were distributed by leftist activists in Tahrir and elsewhere yesterday calling for a general strike.

Twitter

The workers at El-Ta3awon Printing House and Ghazl Meit Ghamr (textile) have kicked out their CEOs, and are now self managing the factories.

Twitter

The workers at El-Ta3awon Printing House and Ghazl Meit Ghamr (textile) have kicked out their CEOs, and are now self managing the factories.

So much for there being 'no class composition' to this uprising... If true things could get interesting.

Anyone have any info on this new federation of trade unions? Political stance, aims, etc?

Auto

Twitter

The workers at El-Ta3awon Printing House and Ghazl Meit Ghamr (textile) have kicked out their CEOs, and are now self managing the factories.

So much for there being 'no class composition' to this uprising... If true things could get interesting.

Anyone have any info on this new federation of trade unions? Political stance, aims, etc?

http://www.unionbook.org/profiles/blogs/egypt-new-trade-union

Today, representatives of the of the Egyptian labor movement, made up of the independent Egyptian trade unions of workers in real estate tax collection, the retirees, the technical health professionals and representatives of the important industrial areas in Egypt: Helwan, Mahalla al-Kubra, the tenth of Ramadan city, Sadat City and workers from the various industrial and economic sectors such as: garment & textiles, metals industry, pharmaceuticals, chemical industry, government employees, iron and steel, automotive, etc… And they agreed to hold a press conference at 3:30pm this afternoon in Tahrir Square next to Omar Effendi Company store in downtown Cairo to announce the organization of the new Federation of Egyptian Trade Unions and to announce the formation of committees in all factories and enterprises to protect, defend them and to set a date for a general strike. And to emphasize that the labor movement is in the heart and soul of the Egyptian Peoples’ revolution and its emphasis on the support for the six requirements as demanded by the Egyptian People's Revolution. To emphasize the economic and democratic demands voiced by the independent labor movement through thousands of strikes, sit-ins and protests by Egyptian workers in the past years.

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/cairo/?p=121

pictures of grafitti with translations

3arabawy

The Popular committees in Alexandria r arresting police officers whenever they spot them.

أكثر من ربع مليون متظاهر يحتشدون حاليا في ميدان التحرير وسط القاهرة

over a quarter of a milion people are gathering now in the Liberation Tahreer square in the middle of Cairo

Reporter on the ground for Al Jazeera is confirming stories of self-managed factories and cops being arrested by Popular Committees in Alexandria. Any welcoming of police officers has been restricted to "upper class areas of Cairo".

Al Jazeera reporting occupations and Popular assemblies arresting police officers on sight.

Caiman del Barrio

Reporter on the ground for Al Jazeera is confirming stories of self-managed factories and cops being arrested by Popular Committees in Alexandria. Any welcoming of police officers has been restricted to "upper class areas of Cairo".

Matt_efc

Al Jazeera reporting occupations and Popular assemblies arresting police officers on sight.

Wow... it seems to me that the longer Mubarak puts off leaving office, the more these 'alternate arrangements' become entrenched. I mean self-managing factories? Popular assemblies arresting police? That's sounding pretty revolutionary to me...

• To our Arab brothers and sisters, if you want to support our intifada, overthrow your dictators. We need a regional intifada. about 3 hours ago via web
• What I want? Fuck liberal democracy where u vote rich bastards into the parliament every 5 years. WE WANT DIRECT DEMOCRACY! about 3 hours ago via web
• Left wing activists in the provinces are agitating for a general strike. about 3 hours ago via web
• The Mahalla workers have been taking part in the protests. Industrial actions are coming very soon. about 3 hours ago via web
• There r similar moves reported in other factories. I'm still trying to confirm. about 3 hours ago via web
• The workers at El-Ta3awon Printing House and Ghazl Meit Ghamr (textile) have kicked out their CEOs, and are now self managing the factories. about 3 hours ago via web http://twitter.com/3arabawy

Egypt unrest tag now on libcom:
http://libcom.org/tags/egypt-unrest

if anyone has any good articles, coverage or whatever please post up to the library and enter the tag "Egypt unrest"

40 min ago hossam tweets:

More than 50,000 protesters are now in the streets of Mahalla, says @mar3e.

Around 200,000 are now demonstrating in Mahalla, says @mar3e. The curfew is meaningless! Long live the Revolution...

What are the chances of a Tiananmen Square-type massacre now that more obvious forms of workers self-organisation seem to be developing? Obama might (as a political trap for his former ally) give the go-ahead to Mubarak to start machine-gunning etc., then publicly denounce him (stab him in the back) and get a significant section of the army to support ElBaradei and bourgeois democracy against "the violence of both sides"? It would require some strange method of convincing Mubarak to do this, but he might fall for it... Am I talking nonsense here - I mean is this a viable possibility?

Yesterday Sarkozy said something like "We support the Tunisian and Egyptian people in what is a crucial moment in time...[studied pause] Crucial - not just for the Tunisians and Egyptians but for the world [his emphases]. We should oppose violence wherever it comes from". This was on the midday news. By the evening this had been censored to : "We support the Tunisian and Egyptian people in what is a crucial moment in time.We should oppose violence wherever it comes from".(and I mean censored, because it was made to seem like the speech ran together, without having been cut up). Which means the ruling class considers it crucial - and that the decisions they make now will have crucial effects for the world. If the scenario in the first paragraph is being considered, I'd guess that it's going to be seen as a way of firstly punishing the most subversive proletarian aspects of this movement, and secondly, a way of rallying the "people" round ElBaradei to "oppose violence wherever it comes from" and a way of making a clear distinction between the old Mubarak (who could be put on trial for crimes against humanity) and the new democracy; plus a massacre would be a warning to other social movements - it could well put off social movements in Jordan, Algeria, the Yemen and other parts of the world as well. I don't know - maybe I'm seeing too much in all this, but clearly the world's rulers are rattled, and as we know their Machiavellianism knows no bounds.

Any ideas?

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/the-torture-career-of-egypts-new-vice-president-omar-suleiman-and-the-rendition-to-torture-program/

Anyone have any info on this new federation of trade unions? Political stance, aims, etc?

Entdichligung posted a lot of the relevant info, but I just wanted to add that the independent unions were one of the tangible results of the wave of strikes that Egypt has witnessed since 2004. Since they're newly formed they've not yet been recuperated by either state or capital.

re Tienamen option question. I think it unlikely. Not because the army command couldn't find elite or shock troops willing to commit large scale massacre, but because they may fear the consequences of reactions by the enlisted sections of the army.

From the perspective of both the local ruling elite and the US and Israel and their EU allies, losing the integrity of the chain of command in the army, at the moment when every other structure of power looks shaky at best, would be the most disastrous outcome. Even to risk it, is probably a risk too far for all the state players at this moment.

My guess is that this is why they have been reduced to psychological warfare such as the hysterical TV coverage of lawlessness (that they have clearly done a lot to create, even if not all looting or destruction can be reduced to that) and the pointless F16 flypasts.

Hossam el-Hamalawy is doing a live Q&A on the Washington Post at 5pm GMT.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2011/01/31/DI2011013102323.html

Khawaga

I am sure that a lot of very wealthy Egyptians are pissing their pants.

purely an impression: on local NYC television, there have every night been interviews with local egyptians and egyptian-americans (all of them copts*). some have been identified on screen as 'dr.', some look to me to be prosperous. all of them have focussed on the violence and the looting, none of them have mentioned political aspects.

* not sure if there is a socio-economic element to this, it may be because they're willing to give access to their photogenic churches for interview purposes

regarding the Tianenmen option, it seems unlikely, but of course events are moving rapidly and who knows. I suspect that the army is waiting for Mubarek to leave as well. In some ways there does appear to be conflict between the Interior ministers and the Army-The army let the police get routed by demonstrators in some cases, and elAdly has just been removed now as well. The army is still the most dominant institution and very respected by the average Egyptian-though that may break down depending on how they respond of course. In addition they must have been waiting for ailing Mubarek to pass soon, and his succession plans- passing it on to his son are now an impossibility, and were never well-recieved by the army who must have had other plans in mind anyway.

capitalist media weigh in:

"One more thing," Burnett remarked. "If this spreads, the United States could take a huge hit because democracy in a place like Saudi Arabia, you've talked about who might come in power, what that means for oil prices. They're going to go stratospheric."

"There's no doubt about it,' MSNBC host Joe Scarborough said. "No doubt about it!"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/cnbc-anchor-implies-support-dictators-cheap-oil/

Samotnaf - I'm assuming that the Tiananmen Square option is out of the question with half the world following events on TV. Could western politicians really afford to support or tolerate it?

But I was suggesting that it would be presented solely as Mubarak's massacre, against the wishes of the US etc., even if they'd encouraged Mubarak behind the scenes (though maybe I wasn't clear). Read my post again (i've added a couple of things in square brackets, plus put some bits in bold which I hope makes what I'm saying clearer):

What are the chances of a Tiananmen Square-type massacre now that more obvious forms of workers self-organisation seem to be developing? Obama might [secretly] (as a political trap for his former ally [ie Mubarak]) give the go-ahead to Mubarak to start machine-gunning etc., then publicly denounce him (stab him in the back) and get a significant section of the army to support ElBaradei and bourgeois democracy against "the violence of both sides"? It would require some strange method of convincing Mubarak to do this, but he might fall for it.....[it would be used ] as a way of firstly punishing the most subversive proletarian aspects of this movement, and secondly, a way of rallying the "people" round ElBaradei to "oppose violence wherever it comes from" and a way of making a clear distinction between the old Mubarak (who could be put on trial for crimes against humanity) and the new democracy; plus a massacre would be a warning to other social movements - it could well put off social movements in Jordan, Algeria, the Yemen and other parts of the world as well. I don't know - maybe I'm seeing too much in all this, but clearly the world's rulers are rattled, and as we know their Machiavellianism knows no bounds.

Could anyone tell me the situation in Maadi district Cairo.Thanks.

Washington Post Q&A with Hossam el-Hamalawy/Arabawy. Some interesting questions and answers.

Boston, Mass.: How long before Mubarak steps down?

If he does, do you worry about a power vacuum?

Do you see ElBaradei as property interim leader until free and fair elections can be held?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: I see him stepping down pretty soon or else he will be taken into custody of the protestors and will be put on trial.

I do not worry about power vacuum because the people are already taking initiatives on the ground to fill any security or political vacuums as we saw in the case of the popular committee that are running security now in the Egyptian neighborhoods, following the evacuation of the police.

Regarding ElBaradei, I do not want to see him as an interim leader because he will diffuse the revolution, not take it forward.

_______________________

Sheffield, U.K.: Which are the opposition parties capable of replacing Mubarak and will they respect the call for elections?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: I don't see any of the current opposition groups capable of providing an alternative at the moment. And what I hope for is that we end up with direct democracy, not liberal democracy. Direct democracy is based on collective decision-making from below based on the committees that are springing up now in the neighborhoods and hopefully soon in the factories. Liberal democracy is voting for rich fat cats once every five years.

_______________________

Bluffton, Ohio: As a university student interested in social justice and social change, what can American students alike do to help during this situation?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: They can protest in the front of the Egyptian embassies and consulates and pressure their own government into cutting the aid they give to the Mubarak

Durham, N.C.: How much truth is there to rumors that police are behind the looting?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: These rumors are largely through many of those criminal thugs who work closely with the police who use them against political dissidents previously in elections and in protests.

_______________________

Coon Rapids, MN: Do you think the new government will be a secular one?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: At the moment it is very hard to say what the outcome of the uprising will be since it's not over yet. However, the Islamic forces are not running the show. Personally I'm hoping for a secular system.

_______________________

New York, NY: I am a Coptic Christian and would like to know if Coptic youth are taking part in the protests? And if you have spoken to any of them what are their hopes for Coptic rights if the regime leaves? Please give us some information. Thank you.

Hossam el-Hamalawy: Despite the call by the Coptic church in Egypt not to take part in the protests because the church is closely affiliated to the Mubarak regime but many of the Coptic youth are taking part in the uprising and the Muslim protesters largely welcome that and in demonstrations there are always slogans chanted by the demonstrators calling for unity between Copts and Muslims against the regime and denouncing sectarianism.

_______________________

London: What does "diffusing the revolution" mean for you? What is the aim of this revolution if not an interim leader and then a properly and freely elected new government?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: The revolution for me is about radical redistribution of wealth and a government that will represent the will of the Egyptian people when it comes to civil liberties in addition to a pro-resistance stand vis a vis the U.S. hegemony on the region and Israel. ElBaradei is not the man for that.

_______________________

Toronto, Canada: We see the size of the street protests but what types of organizations are springing up to organize these? For instance neighbourhood committees, factory committees, political parties. Or is it still primarily "spontaneous" and localized organizations?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: In many cases the protests are spontaneous but slowly there are grassroots organizations that are mushrooming to manage the protests, including the neighborhood committees, the few independent trade unions we have and hopefully soon factory committees.

_______________________

London: Do you see this as a popular, mass led, revolution? What chance do the Muslim Brotherhood have of hijacking it?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: It is a popular mass revolution indeed. However, history is full of previous cases where groups have hijacked the uprisings. Up until now the Brotherhood have not presented themselves as an alternative to Mubarak. But who knows about tomorrow?

_______________________

Washington, DC: If Mubarak steps down, is there a fear that a radical regime will take his place instead of a democratic one? How likely is that to happen?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: If you are taling radical, like in radical redistribution of wealth and active support for the spread of regional dissent against both the local Arab dictators and the western backers, then we welcome the radicalism. But if it was radicalism in the direction of religious fanatacism we definitely do not want that and I see no signs on the ground that religious fanatics are taking over.

_______________________

Barcelona, Catalonia: Was Tunisia a 'Berlin Wall moment' for the Arab world? Do you think it's likely that many other dictatorships in the region will fall in 2011?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: The real Berlin moment was the outbreak of the Palestinian interfabe (sp?) in 2000 that started a chain reaction all throughout the Arab world providing inspiration for street dissent. Having said that, the Tunisian revolution is indeed a catalyst in a process that has been brewing for ten years now.

_______________________

Austin, TX: We're only hearing about what is happening in Cairo, and to a lesser extent some other big cities. What's going on in rural Egypt?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: In rural Egypt ... if you mean the provinces which are not necessarily rural these protests continue on a daily basis and sometimes they are even more militant than the ones in Cairo.

_______________________

Newfoundland, Canada: What do you think Mubarak's strategy is, or are he and his Ministers just living in a bubble detached from reality?

It is very odd that the government would continually impose curfews and then do nothing to enforce them -it just emboldens people.

Hossam el-Hamalawy: I think Mubarak is confused and desperate so he is trying every trick in the book. But it's not working because the street pressure continues and escalates. Mubarak hoped for the end of the protests when he sent in the army expecting that people will be scared by the sight of the tanks and fighter jets. But it backfired.

_______________________

Bielefeld, Germany: Which country in the Middle East will be next? Do you think many more countries will experience such events like in Egypt?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: I think many countries in our region are about to embrace their own intefada. I think Yemen, Jordan and Algeria might be next.

_______________________

New York, New York: What incentive does Mubarak have to resign? What if he just decides to ignore the protests? Do you think the protesters can continue their momentum? Egypt is a country of over 80 million people - do you feel the protests are representative?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: No dictator has an incentive to leave and they only leave when they are forced to and I feel the tipping point to be coming very soon. And yes, the demonstrations are very much representative of the Egyptian people because you find men and women, Copts and Muslims, veiled and unveiled women, children and old men and women, so you have all the strats of Egyptian people.

_______________________

New York: Thus far, it appears that a very small percentage of Egyptians are demonstrating. Why is that? What percentage of Egyptians do you think the demonstrators represent?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: I think this is a mistaken idea and it's enough to tune in the TV stations to watch the hundreds of thousands basically in every province to understand that this has become a mass uprising.

_______________________

Sheffield, UK: Why do you think the West has been so hesitant and incremental in transitioning their support from Mubarak to the Egyptian people?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: Western governments like all other governments care about their own interests and do not put much value on what choices they make on who to ally themselves with except for their personal gains. That's why the Obama administration made foolish statements like those made by Joe Biden refusing to label Mubarak as a dictator simply because Mubarak is a friend of the U.S. government and Israel.

_______________________

Boston, MA: From your narrative it appears that you are supporting a socialist restructuring of Egyptian economic life in the post-Mubarak era, but there are also many in Egypt who would support something more akin to the European liberal social-democratic model. Are you qualified to give an accurate representation of what approach most protesters are agreeing upon?

Hossam el-Hamalawy: No one claims that there is an agreement yet among protesters about the post-Mubarak regime and I was very much clear in my previous answers that I was expressing my personal hopes towards what Egypt should look like. However, at the end of the day the majority of the Egyptian people will decide which direction to go.

Hossam el-Hamalawy

Tomorrow we meet 9am in Tahrir Square. We will march on Mubarak's presidential palace in Heliopolis. Down with the dictator.

Al Jazeera

The Egyptian army has said it would not use force against citizens staging protests to force President Hosni Mubarak to step down

In a statement on Monday it said "freedom of expression" was guaranteed to all citizens using peaceful means.

It was the first such explicit confirmation by the army that it would not fire at demonstrators who have taken to the streets of Egypt and comes a day before before Tuesday's "march of millions" to mark the seventh day of the protests as anti-government sentiment reaches fever pitch.

Our producer in Egypt reports on the latest developments

"The presence of the army in the streets is for your sake and to ensure your safety and wellbeing. The armed forces will not resort to use of force against our great people," the army statement said.

"Your armed forces, who are aware of the legitimacy of your demands and are keen to assume their responsibility in protecting the nation and the citizens, affirms that freedom of expression through peaceful means is guaranteed to everybody."

It urged people not to resort to acts of sabotage that violate security and destroy public and private property. It warned that it would not allow outlaws to loot, attack and "terrorise citizens".

Protesters have called for a massive demonstration and a rolling general strike on Tuesday.

The so-called April 6 Movement said it plans to have more than one million people on the streets of the capital Cairo.

The call came as Mubarak swore in a new cabinet in an attempt to defuse ongoing demonstrations across the country.

But opposition groups say personnel changes will not placate them and have said they will continue until the president steps down.

"The whole regime must come down," Hassan, a construction worker and protester told the Reuters news agency.

"We do not want anyone from Mubarak's retinue in the new government, which the people will choose. We want a civil government run by the people themselves."

Army presence

Our producer in Egypt reports on the latest developments in Tahrir Square

Up to 250,000 people are continuing to demonstrate in Cairo's Tahrir square after hundreds remained camped out overnight, defying a curfew that has been extended by the army.

There is a heavy army presence around the area, with tanks positioned near the square and officers checking identity papers.

One of Al Jazeera's correspondents said military attempts to block access to the square on Monday by closing roads was not working as more people were arriving in a steady stream.

"Protesters say they'll stay in this square for as long as Mubarak stays in power," she said.

Protesters seem unfazed by Mubarak's pledge to institute economic and political reforms. Our correspondent said people feel that such pledges "are too little, too late".

Al Jazeera reporters in Cairo also said police had been seen returning to the streets, directing traffic, after being absent since Friday.

"We are waiting for the minister of interior to announce in what form they are going to come back onto the streets and why they disappeared after Friday prayers, on the 'second day of rage'," one correspondent said.

"The absence of police has given looters a free rein, forcing ordinary citizens to set up neighbourhood patrols. Many people are wondering where the police disappeared to.

"There are two schools of thought as far as the police are concerned: One is that many of them decided to join the protesters.

"The other is that the regime was saying to the people, 'You want to protest. We'll pull back the police and you feel what anarchy feels like'," our correspondent said.

After deadly clashes in which around 125 people were killed in Cairo and other cities, protesters complained that police were using excessive force.

But an Al Jazeera correspondent said some locals greeted police as "long-lost friends" on Monday.

"It's almost as if the population of Cairo is suffering from selective amnesia ... We saw one small boy carrying a tray a of tea to a group of policemen. Another man got out of his car, kissed and hugged the policemen."

Panic and chaos

Meanwhile, many people are reported to be panic buying in Cairo amid the unrest.

"I walked into a supermarket and saw complete mayhem," an Al Jazeera correspondent said.

"People are stocking up on supplies as much as they can. There are very few rations available in the stores. They are running out of basic supplies, like eggs, cheese and meat. Deliveries have not been coming for days."

Chaos has also been reported at Cairo's international airport, where thousands of foreigners are attempting to be evacuated by their home countries.

As the protests continue, security is said to be deteriorating and reports have emerged of several prisons across the country being attacked and of fresh protests being staged in cities like Alexandria and Suez.

Thirty-four leaders from the Muslim Brotherhood were freed from the Wadi Natroun jail after guards abandoned their posts.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/20111311965695371.html

from the guardian live blog:

6.30pm GMT: Much of the action is taking place today outside of Cairo – as it has done through the protests in Egypt. Reuters reports on the protests nationwide:

• Alexandria: Thousands of protesters gathered in the square outside the main train station chanting "Come on, go away, show some shame". Witnesses said they had brought blankets and food, intending to stay the night and take part in the million-strong march which activists have called for Tuesday.

• Mahalla El-Kubra: 2,000 people demonstrate in the Nile Delta textile town chanting "Wakey wakey, Mubarak, today's your last day". Some 3,000 protest in Tanta 3,000, and 1,000 in Kafr el-Zayat, also in the delta region.

• Hamoul: A demonstration by several hundred people in the town in Kafr el-Sheikh province, north of Cairo, was dispersed by "outlaws" armed with sticks and swords, witnesses said. Seven protesters were injured. In Kafr el-Sheikh town 3,000 protested.

• Fayoum: 20,000 people took part in a silent demonstration in Sawaqi square in the city south of Cairo.

---
so the numbers hossam is showing in mahalla, from @mar3e, are quite different from the numbers the guardian is listing. I wonder which one is more accurate, and I wonder how you say 'wakey' in arabic.

edit: EA liveblog claim 100k marched in mahalla, linked to this tweet:
100,000 Protesting in Mahalla. With a population of 500,000, thats one in every five.

Report: Egypt request crowd dispersion equipment from Israel

The Al Jazeera network reported Monday that Egypt appealed to Israel to send crowd dispersal equipment, including tear gas. Al Jazeera reported that two Israeli airplanes carrying the equipment landed in Cairo. (Elior Levy)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4021742,00.html

What are the chances of a Tiananmen Square-type massacre now that more obvious forms of workers self-organisation seem to be developing? Obama might (as a political trap for his former ally) give the go-ahead to Mubarak to start machine-gunning etc., then publicly denounce him (stab him in the back) and get a significant section of the army to support ElBaradei and bourgeois democracy against "the violence of both sides"? It would require some strange method of convincing Mubarak to do this, but he might fall for it... Am I talking nonsense here - I mean is this a viable possibility?

I would be pretty shocked if this happened. Even if Mubarak wanted to do this and had the okay from Western power, I don't know if he would have the power to do this. The police seem to still lack any real power within Egyptian cities, and the army seems to be charting a sort of middle course between the protestors and the presidency. We've already seen them let the police be routed by protestors and they've stated that they will not use force against protestors, though that isn't any real guarantee of course.

As the army might be the most powerful power source outside of the presidency, is it possible that generals maybe jockeying for position to lead Egypt if Mubarak falls while also not trying to alienate him in case he doesn't?

ISP Noor has been shut down,

Guardian live blog:

The speculation was that Noor had been allowed to remain in operation because it supplied data links to Egypt's stock exchange and other critical parts of the national infrastructure, including airports. Quite what happens now is a mystery.

A visit to the stock exchange's website, www.egyptse.com, turns up a "server not found" message. The stock exchange is closed tomorrow, because of the protests, so the government may have decided to take the risk and shut down the last ISP.

---

EA live blog:

Ivan Watson of CNN reports that the Egyptian Ministry of Information has told them all cell phone service will be shut down just ahead of tomorrow's expected 'Million Man March'.

A few things on the Tiananmen scenario. I consider it highly unlikely, and - if tried - it would probably fail. A comparison shows crucial differences.

First, in China 1989, there were two Tiananmen moments, not one. There was the first military operation against the demonstrations which were then millions strong, 19 May. Army apparently had orders not to shoot, tanks got drowned in te the crowds, within a few days, military withdrew from the center of town. Then: stand-off, dwindling demonstrations, while behind the scene there was receding talk of reform and compromise - while a new, decisive attack was prepared.

In the beginning of June, demonstrations started growing again - and in the meantime, workers' resistance was beginning to cristallize. The Deng Xia Ping leadership decided that the moment had come, and went for the attack. They succeeded - barely.

Now, the differences with Egypt today are quite strong. At the moment, the movement in Egypt is on the rise. There has not been a weakening, as in China when the final attack came: the movement had been continuing for six, seven weeks before 3-4 June. Another thing: the Chinese leaders had to replace the units they sent into Beijing in May. They sent newly-prepared units, apparently from inner-China-regions, soldiers who barely had contact with the urban protest movements, sometimes even speaking another language. They COULD do such a thing, because in China in 1989, the overwhelming majority was rural, not urban. This use of other, rural-based troops without urban connection, wil be much harder in Egypt at the moment. There simply is not that endless rural hinterland that the Chinese leaders coould militarily mobilize against the urban students and workers. There is not much of a fall-back-option in a military sense (unless the American and/ or Israeli army lends a helping hand with ho hundreds of thousands of soldiers...)

Another difference. The mass movements in Egypt are much more spontaneously, less formally-organised than the often quite regimented demonstrations in China. There is also not the conciously non-violent attitude that, catastrophically in the end, disfigured the Chinese student movement: Egyptians have made it quite clear that they will fight, and fight hard.They defeated the police. That is why Mubarak sent the army. But sending them to impress people is not the same as using them to crush them. And the people do not seem that impressed (though there are big and dangerous illusions in the army). They will fight the army, and I doubt very much if the army will hold together. Mutiny seems much more likely, after all the contacts between demonstrators and soldiers.

Yet another difference. Workers' involvement seems to be much stronger in Egypt now. Embryonic self-organisation idem dito. The million on the street will feel the support for an openly called general strike. Using military force in this specific situation seems like the best way to intensify the revolution even further. If Mubarak is madman enough to try this road, I think either his generals nor his Pentagon sponsors will wil block that road - in their own interest.

The big danger, in the short run, is not the army. The big danger is the political spectacle unfolding, qwith transitions to democracy and stuff like that. They want to tame the revolution, because they see that frontally crushing it is impossible - for the moment. However, what I have said only holds for a mass movement still growing. After a longer impasse, ther balance might change, again with China as a useful comparison - and warning.

What is the response of people to this piece on a"social war" type blog?

It seems like the class content of such committees is perhaps more ambiguous that this makes it seem. I don't know what the extent of a "middle class" (in the sense of those who are workers yet have some property) is in Egypt, but it seems like there are certainly proles who would be interested in protecting their personal property etc. from particularly opportunistic looters or state thugs and simply organizing life in a crisis situation, as well as the wealthy protecting their private property from proles? Hard to make out from my distance...perhaps there are similar forms with obviously different content, a fact that the media is willing to exploit to justify a law and order line and create the appearance of divisions between workers and lumpen?

As the army might be the most powerful power source outside of the presidency, is it possible that generals maybe jockeying for position to lead Egypt if Mubarak falls while also not trying to alienate him in case he doesn't?

This sounds far more likely than my Tienanmen Square suggestion, though I still wouldn't rule it out, even if it's based on Mubarak being "mad enough to do that", whilst secretly manipulated by the US. Perhaps one can speculate too much (at least I can) and often pointlessly.
I imagine the " jockeying for position to lead Egypt " would only be doing that as a temporary measure, an interim govt. between Mubarak and bourgeois democracy, no? Certainly not as another definitive dictatorial govt.

Army closed main roads between Cairo and Alexandria to prevent protesters from reaching mass protests today. Train services also closed.

Excellent posts Red Marriot and #246 and Khwagwa #261. Is this the same guy being quoted in both?

yes it's the same guy, the first is his twitter feed ( http://twitter.com/3arabawy ) the second is a live q and a with the washington post

um, it's a bit like watching two old men critiquing a movie they've never seen... but here's glenn beck and bill o'reilly, explaining to all of us what this is really about

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-oreilly-is-unconvinced-by-glenn-becks-comparisons-of-egyptian-revolt-to-wwi/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/01/egypt-tunisia-revolt

Slavoj zizek and his two cents

10.34am: Estimates on the numbers so far vary from between Recent 200,000 and 500,000 people. Not a million yet but still large.

ea live blog says announcements are being made saying more than a million, says al jazeeras pan across tahrir confirm now there are more people than at any other point. also:

1052 GMT: Army around the Presidential Palace is checking each car at roadblocks, with "only 5 or 6" passing through in last hour. A correspondent says "this is creating havoc".

The correspondent adds that tension is rising between the military and the public. There is "no way" that a march from Tahrir will get anywhere near the Palace.

Though this immediate situation is very unlikely to lead to WWIII, the fact that Beck is making this comparison could mean there are significant sections of the US bourgeoisie who want to ideologically/psychologically prepare the US spectators for major moves to war in the event of a more global threat to their class power (one of the reasons for WWI was the class war: the Great Unrest in the UK, the movements in other countries). I feel that we could be approaching what Sarkozy said was "a crucial moment in time... Crucial - not just for the Tunisians and Egyptians but for the world" [his emphases]. Of course, there are several other aspects of how crucial this might be, but if Manchester students are beginning to "walk like an Egyptian" (Red Marriott saw a report where some students there on Saturday had T-shirts with "walk like an Egyptian" on them) and the contagion spreads both within and beyond North Africa, then WWIII, or something not quite so worldwide as that, is an option for the ruling class that they're definitely considering. They see it as "solving" a lot of problems for them (population surplus to requirements, etc.). But maybe this thread is not the place to be discussing this.

scottydont

What is the response of people to this piece on a"social war" type blog?

It seems like the class content of such committees is perhaps more ambiguous that this makes it seem. I don't know what the extent of a "middle class" (in the sense of those who are workers yet have some property) is in Egypt, but it seems like there are certainly proles who would be interested in protecting their personal property etc. from particularly opportunistic looters or state thugs and simply organizing life in a crisis situation, as well as the wealthy protecting their private property from proles? Hard to make out from my distance...perhaps there are similar forms with obviously different content, a fact that the media is willing to exploit to justify a law and order line and create the appearance of divisions between workers and lumpen?

well, don't think his example is typical. the more typical examples would perharps pertain to more middle or lower class protecting their streets, or neighborhoods.

it will be an interesting question, though, how it is gonna play out; after what i know from the iranian revolution, these neighborhood comittees can be used by islamists.

Back in 1978/79, the neighborhood comitees, the komiteha, came at some point under the influence of the Islamist clerics and their following; because they had a large and devoted and organized following in those quarters, and one which was wreckless and organized and not willing to play by the rules of revolutionary democracy, but went out to crush their opponents. Their armed wing was later embedded in what would become the Pasdaran organization, in much the same way as Feliks Dzershinsky created the Cheka from what remaind of the military comitees of the local soviets, after having purgend them of all non-bolsheviks and turned them in to a mere instrument.

https://intheabsenceoftruth.noblogs.org/post/2011/01/31/two-revolts-egypt-part-ii/

Samotnaf

...if Manchester students are beginning to "walk like an Egyptian" (Red Marriott saw a report where some students there on Saturday had T-shirts with "walk like an Egyptian" on them)

I heard many people chanting things like 'from london to cairo regimes must fall' or something, other things as well, but then again after watching the demonstrations in egypt, what happened in london felt a bit depressing. And those same people were also chanting 'pay your tax' when walking past certain stores...

I dunno, in the states people lose sleep at night thinking about the Islamic Bogeyman, and it does seem like the mainstream media is 'washing' people to believe this is basically a repeat of iran, whipping themselves into a frenzy might make them look a bit ridiculous if their pundits are wrong (and they do seem clueless)

On the forces of repression opening fire on the masses: I think that the Americans have already told the Egyptian army that it's out of the question. The sight of US Abraham tanks rolling over protesters or US heavy calibre weaponary being used to shoot them down is not something that the US bourgeoisie is stupid enough to allow at the moment. There was already enough trouble over "made in USA" tear gas cannisters. I agree with the analysis of rooleravotr above on this question.

I also think that it's an error to see the Egyptian army as a homogenous entity. ITV news on Sunday night reported that some conscipt elements had been taken out of the main square and special forces in tanks moved in. They are both army units and they both have different interests.

There's been very little on the all-pervasive Mukhabarat secret police; no mention of them specifically. Isn't their boss Omar Suleiman, the man who's been at the head of the of the Egyptian state for some time and now the new de facto leader, their boss?

BBC news reported last night that the Israelis had given permission for elements of the Egyptian army to cross the demilitarized Sinai and secure the Gaza crossing. Not so ironic really that the Israelis and Egyptians are coming to help Hamas out.

Guardian stream

11.37am: Judging by continuing live footage from the protest it looks as if at least 1 million people are taking part. The scale looks every bit as big as that London 2003 demonstration against the Iraq war, when at least 1 million people took part.

Critical mass?

We started a week ago with 15 - 20,000 in Cairo, on Friday we got to what looked to be in the 100,000s, but in a country this size and a capital city in the region of 17M pop. in the greater urban area, it was clear that you need to look to break the million mark.

cairo is heavily populated for sure, but remember the population changes drastically by day and night, as many do not live in cairo proper. And many people could find it difficult to make it to tahrir. I've heard of transport not working and people being forced to walk.

Mark.

Sites to follow for today

EA liveblog

Guardian live updates

Al Jazeera liveblog

Al Jazeera live stream

http://twitter.com/abdu

http://twitter.com/3arabawy

also for French readers

le Parisien: EN DIRECT

(they have reporters on the ground)

NouvelObs: [HEURE PAR HEURE] Les manifestations en Egypte

(not sure if they've got bodies on the ground but they're aggregating sources neither the Guardian or Al Jazeera are covering)

Other news sources like le Figaro seem to be mainly rehashing what's available via Guardian or Al Jaz. Obviously the French language press and media links to Egypt are less than to Tunisia for historical reasons of colonial legacy, language, etc.

from NouvelObs, an economic detail:

12.25 - Copenhagen The Danish oil and shipping group AP Moeller/Maersk holds a temporary cessation of its activities in Egypt because of political unrest there affecting its operations, but he said he had no intention of leaving the country.

Moeller/Maersk is the backbone of the container-shipping logistical structure of globalised trade.

From the Guardian liveblog, this (Brian Whitaker talking):

However, about half the ships using the canal normally call at Egyptian ports to pick up supplies etc. There are some problems in the ports because of strikes and IT difficulties.

Journalist to AJ: the entire city of Mahalla El Kubra is out on the streets, no less than 250,000. Including members of the ruling party

hamas and the PA both shut down solidarity demos, maybe the starting point for national unity? ...

http://www.anarkismo.net/article/18645

I want to talk in more detail about the local committees formed by the masses, which are one of the most interesting manifestations of its revolutionary action. In the face of the looting started mostly by the ex-secret police, people formed these committees as really democratic institutions, a real competition to the power of the ruling elite and its authoritarian institutions... in Egypt now there are two governments; the local committees and the Mubarak government that is hidden behind the tanks and the rifles of its soldiers. This is happening in a region that is used to dictatorships and authoritarianism… that is the great thing about revolutions, that they transform the world so fast. That doesn't mean that the struggle has been won; on the contrary, this means that the real struggle has just started.

from an interview with a syrian anarchist. he doesn't seem to be frightened at all by the prospect of a "really democratic" government of the porperty owners.

how much of all that, exactly, is plainly wishful thinking?

SAMIR RIFAE HAS RESIGNED!! hahahahaha

look I just got a re tweet on my facebook news feed so a bit unsure myself but I found this link

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/01/c_13716520.htm

squaler

SAMIR RIFAE HAS RESIGNED!! hahahahaha

look I just got a re tweet on my facebook news feed so a bit unsure myself but I found this link

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-02/01/c_13716520.htm

Not resigned, sacked by the king.

From the Guardian Liveblog:

12.45pm: Jordan's King Abdullah has dismissed his government and appointed a new prime minister, according to the Associated Press news agency.

We'll have more details soon.

ah ok, yeah like I said just got a retweet and found that link saying he had resigned, nothing about being sacked by the king, guess we'll find out more shortly

abdu tweets:
King Abdullah of Jordan appoints new PM Marouf Al Bakhit to replace Samir Al Rifai. He appointed . It's all about timing #Egypt

palestinian friend comments on this news:
The opposition had "advised" the king to sack the government. He must have "listened" to them, since they insisted they want reform and not "regime change". Al Bakhit is not a new face in the regime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marouf_...al-Bakhit

1.08pm: Protesters are now starting to march in Alexandria, Human Rights Watch Reports.

There is no clear route for the march, so a bit of confusion. The local lawyers association and some judges have joined under a banner stating 'The Law Asssociation says Down, Down with Mubarak.'

The Guardian's Harriet Sherwood, who is also in Alexandria, tweets:

No one is running this, apart from the people themselves

a few articles i came across today doing my asia round-up about working class involvement in events:

Egyptian Workers Hold Key to Uprising, New Union Association Issues Call for General Strike

Egypt at the tipping point?

Egypt: Founding declaration of new independent trade union federation

these were all through the labourstart feed which might be worth checking...

Al Jazeera, le Parisien and various other sources are putting the numbers at 2 M in Cairo and 1M in Alexandria. That's without counting the large demonstrations in all the other towns.

edit: from NouvelObs

16:10 - @jan25live The German news agency DPA estimates that total 8 million demonstrators marched across Egypt.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Hamas-stops-pro-Egypt-rally-in-Gaza/Article1-657266.aspx

Hamas police prevented a handful of people in Gaza from demonstrating in solidarity with the Egyptian protesters demanding President Hosni Mubarak's ouster, a Gaza activist said Tuesday. The West Bank's Palestinian Authority also squelched a pro-Egypt protest this week _ showing the rival
governments' fears that the massive anti-government protests in nearby Egypt could inspire Palestinians unhappy with their own leadership to rise up against it.

Gaza activist Asma al-Ghoul said she and a small group of demonstrators had gathered Tuesday in central Gaza City when police came to stop them. She says police detained and roughed up some demonstrators.

"Everyone should enjoy the right of freedom expression," she said, adding that female police harassed her for not covering her hair and accused her of being a bad Muslim.

New York-based Human Rights watch called on Hamas to "stop arbitrarily interfering with peaceful demonstrations about Egypt or anything else."

Hamas police had no comment.

Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza, has issued no official comments on the Egyptian protests but officials have said privately that change in Egypt could benefit Hamas by easing the Egyptian-Israeli blockade imposed on the impoverished coastal territory.

The Western-backed Palestinian Authority in the West Bank put down a similar protest this week _ reflecting fears of unrest among its own population.

Witnesses said more than 100 police prevented protesters from reaching the Egyptian diplomatic mission in the West Bank on Sunday. Police, outnumbering the protesters 3-to-1, shoved some protesters and threatened to hit them with clubs and arrest them. Police also prevented journalists from photographing or filming, warning they would confiscate their cameras.

The Palestinian Authority did not respond to requests for comment. While small, the protest _ like the much larger demonstrations in Egypt _ was organized over Facebook and other social networking tools.

"We called for this demonstration through the Internet, to come express solidarity with the Egyptian people and their struggle for democracy and human rights," said protester Ramzi Hazboun, 25. The Palestinian Authority considers Mubarak an ally and has not commented on the Egyptian protests. It has been at odds with Hamas since the Islamist group seized control of Gaza in 2007.

from Guardian

3.57pm: The Guardian's security correspondent, Richard Norton-Taylor, has attempted to answer the question "Why do revolutions such as Tunisia's come by surprise?" and writes that there are lessons for the security services to learn – namely to diversify their sources. He writes:

Secret intelligence services, naturally enough, want to emphasise secret intelligence – a product which only they, in their special and privileged role, can offer. As a result, they have seriously underestimated what can be gleaned from "open sources". It was a fault brutally identified in the Franks report into the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands in 1982. More accurate and timely information could be gleaned about the Argentinian junta's intentions from local newspapers than from British secret agents in Latin America, it said. Britain's diplomats and spooks who, in common with all western intelligence agencies, also spectacularly failed to foresee the fall of the Berlin wall, must in future pay much more attention to "open sources", what they can hear on the Arab street, and what they can read, notably on the internet

Add in the fall of the Shah and a host of other occasions where the Western intelligence agencies have completely failed to pick up on the approach of major ruptures. You'd have to say that at this stage probably the marketing departments of Google and Facebook have a better idea of the state of play in non-Western countries than the intelligence agencies.

edit: Woah, spooky coincidence

17:00 - Wael @ SultanAlQassemi Ghonim, marketing manager for Google Middle East and North Africa, has been missing for five days, said his brother on the television channel Al-Arabiya.

(NouvelObs)

meanwhile, back on the ranch...

Reuters: HSBC sees Egyptian stocks as cheap, moves overweight

LONDON Feb 1 (Reuters) - Investment bank HSBC said on Tuesday that recent developments in Egypt had been "constructive" enough for it to view Egyptian stocks as attractively priced and to move them to overweight.

Overweight means that investors should hold more of the stocks than they normally would.

"The market looks extremely cheap and quite likely small improvements in newsflow stand to create disproportionate traction," strategist John Lomax wrote in a note.

HSBC lifted its recommended positioning on Egyptian stocks to neutral from underweight on Friday.

God knows what the HSBC lot are on, but I wouldn't mind a wrap of it.

A somewhat less starry-eyed assessment on the economic front.

UPDATE 1-Cargo disruptions choke Egypt ports - source
Tue Feb 1, 2011 4:14pm GMT

* Egypt says no shipment delays on contracted wheat orders

* Military increasing presence along Sumed pipeline

By Jonathan Saul

LONDON, Feb 1 (Reuters) - Cargo operations at Egypt's Alexandria and Damietta ports have come to a virtual standstill as widespread unrest keeps key staff from work and throws the economy into turmoil, shipping sources said on Tuesday.

Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians demonstrated in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez in an uprising against an increasingly isolated President Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt, the world's biggest wheat importer, told Reuters on Tuesday there were no shipment delays on contracted wheat orders.

But shipping sources said the Mediterranean terminals, which especially handle bulk and container shipments including grains, had been affected by the daily curfew across the country.

"It (Alexandria port) is not closed but there is no work. Customs officials are not there. There is nobody to operate the cranes," said Dan Delany, an Alexandria-based agent for the Lloyd's of London insurance market. "You could say the country has effectively shut down."

South Korea's Hanjin Shipping said on Tuesday it was re-routing some of its container vessels due to the unrest in Egypt which had hampered drydock operations at several ports.

Sources said this week the protests were disrupting the country's grains imports with some shipments from the United States being delayed due to problems related to letters of credit.

Egypt's banks will remain shut for a third day on Wednesday and the central bank said it is still assessing whether they will close again on Thursday.

"Alexandria port is still open but no one is working for the moment," an Egyptian shipping source said. "Their cargo operations are not working properly because of labour problems."

Sources identified similar problems at Damietta port with ship container operations being disrupted at Port Said as well.

A French trader said a ship he had chartered to export an agricultural cargo to Egypt was circling close to the port of Damietta because he was afraid of not being paid by the private Egyptian buyer.

"We're afraid of not being paid, we'd rather have the boat go round and round. And everyone else is doing the same thing. We don't want the ship to dock without being sure we'll be paid," he said.

Danish shipping and oil group A.P. Moller-Maersk said on Monday it has suspended its terminal operations at Port Said.

PIPELINE

Movement of traffic through the Suez Canal was unaffected, the Canal Authority said on Tuesday.

Shipping sources said the Egyptian military had increased deployments at the canal and other strategically important sites such as the Sumed oil pipeline which links the Red Sea to the Mediterranean.

"So long as the army remains unified and protesters do not target this infrastructure they are likely to remain safe," said John Drake, a senior risk consultant with security firm AKE Ltd.

"It would take a major deterioration in the security environment for opportunists to target such strategic and well defended interests."

At least 140 people have been killed in eight days of turmoil with protesters demanding an end to Mubarak's 30-year rule.

Freight players said tanker traffic through the Suez Canal was estimated to make up around only 15 percent of all transits.

"We believe that any disruptions to the Sumed pipeline will have greater consequences for tanker shipping than a closure of the canal," said Sverre Svenning, director of research at broker Fearnleys. (Additional reporting by Valerie Parent in Paris)

(Editing by Keiron Henderson)

Baboon

I also think that it's an error to see the Egyptian army as a homogenous entity. ITV news on Sunday night reported that some conscipt elements had been taken out of the main square and special forces in tanks moved in. They are both army units and they both have different interests.

Yeah, it would be an error to view the Egyptian army as a homogeneous entity. Various general are undoubtedly jockeying for influence with both Hosni Mubarak and other potentials such as El Baradei and Suleiman. And it makes perfect sense that the conscript elements were taken out; far too easy to fraternize with a bunch of poor peasants and workers rather than professional special forces. Not a good development at all. I guess we will see which way the chips fall if/when today's protest gets close to the presidential compound.

There's been very little on the all-pervasive Mukhabarat secret police; no mention of them specifically. Isn't their boss Omar Suleiman, the man who's been at the head of the of the Egyptian state for some time and now the new de facto leader, their boss?

Yeah, Suleiman is the mukhabarat boss. Some speculate that he's been the de facto leader of Egypt for some time considering that Mubarak is basically a walking corpse. It is surprising that very little has been written about the mukhabarat, the only thing I can think of is the looting.

More on the economic front. There's a finance issue that's been kicked down the road for a couple of days at the moment.

Reuters: Egypt cbank to redeem T-bills, transfer to banks

CAIRO Feb 1 (Reuters) - Egypt's central bank said it would redeem 4 billion Egyptian pounds ($683 million) in Treasury bills that matured on Tuesday and transfer the funds to banks when they reopen.

Egyptian banks have been closed for three days because of nationwide protests, and the central bank cancelled a Treasury bill auction that had been scheduled for Jan. 30. Banks will remain closed on Wednesday as well.

The central bank will pay interest of 8.25 percent for the period between maturity and the time the funds can be transferred to banks, Deputy Governor Hisham Ramez said by telephone.

Some 1 billion pounds in 91-day bills with an average yield of 9.292 percent and 3 billion pounds in 182-day bills with an average yield of 10.369 percent matured on Tuesday.

Investors are required to pay 20 percent income tax on Treasury bills and bonds but not on bank deposits, which makes the 8.25 percent yield attractive, a Cairo-based bond trader said.

"It should calm down investors. It indicates tha the financial system is not fully collapsed in Egypt and that the central bank is willing to meet its obligations in a timely manner," the trader said. ($1=5.857 EGYPTIAN POUND) (Reporting by Patrick Werr; Editing by Susan Fenton)

Still got to actually come up with the readies whenever they can get the banks back open, though...

Guardian

5.13pm: A giant TV screen has reportedly just been put up in Tahrir Square. No prizes for what it is showing....al-Jazeera. The revolution will be televised.

Debord! Thou should'st be living at this hour...

Let's see. What shall we do? Shall we march on the presidential palace or sit here and watch "the revolution" on TV?

*sigh*

More on the Army and the power intricacies.

‘ The Egyptian theatre now has four key players — Lt Gen Sami Annan, Chief of Staff of the Egyptian Army, Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, Defence Minister, Air Marshal Ahmed Shafiq, Minister for Civil Aviation [and now Prime Minister], and Lt Gen Omar Suleiman, the intelligence chief. Of the four, Lt Gen Annan commands 468,000 troops, Field Marshal Tantawi oversees 60,000 Republican Guards while Lt Gen Suleiman is rumoured to be ailing. ‘

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=3652&Cat=13

Khawaga

Washington Post Q&A with Hossam el-Hamalawy/Arabawy. Some interesting questions and answers.

Snip…

could somebody please post this up to the library? That would be really great but I don't have time right now!

Steven

could somebody please post this up to the library? That would be really great but I don't have time right now!

Done!

http://libcom.org/library/crisis-egypt-qa-hossam-el-hamalawy

Khawaga

More on the Army and the power intricacies.

‘ The Egyptian theatre now has four key players — Lt Gen Sami Annan, Chief of Staff of the Egyptian Army, Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, Defence Minister, Air Marshal Ahmed Shafiq, Minister for Civil Aviation [and now Prime Minister], and Lt Gen Omar Suleiman, the intelligence chief. Of the four, Lt Gen Annan commands 468,000 troops, Field Marshal Tantawi oversees 60,000 Republican Guards while Lt Gen Suleiman is rumoured to be ailing. ‘

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=3652&Cat=13

There's a handy military command tree graphic from Issandr El Amrani here from his post on his Arabist blog about the top personnel of the old guard - The who's who of the has-beens - which includes a chart of National Democratic Party people as well, for checking names that pop up in the next few weeks.

I want to talk in more detail about the local committees formed by the masses, which are one of the most interesting manifestations of its revolutionary action. In the face of the looting started mostly by the ex-secret police, people formed these committees as really democratic institutions, a real competition to the power of the ruling elite and its authoritarian institutions... in Egypt now there are two governments; the local committees and the Mubarak government that is hidden behind the tanks and the rifles of its soldiers. This is happening in a region that is used to dictatorships and authoritarianism… that is the great thing about revolutions, that they transform the world so fast. That doesn't mean that the struggle has been won; on the contrary, this means that the real struggle has just started.

from an interview with a syrian anarchist. he doesn't seem to be frightened at all by the prospect of a "really democratic" government of the porperty owners.

how much of all that, exactly, is plainly wishful thinking?

The key are the comittees, what are they? who are their members? which differences are among them and are they mainly interclassist? Could they launch a constituent assembly able to supersede mubarak's government? If it's not like that already and if they are to last that's not possible with mubarak in the shades...The whole stuff reminds me of the piece that felix morrow, yeah the american trot, wrote about the spanish revolution, quite leninist anno, however both powers cannot coexist for long.

Valeriano Orobón Fernández

The key are the comittees, what are they? who are their members? which differences are among them and are they mainly interclassist? Could they launch a constituent assembly able to supersede mubarak's government? If it's not like that already and if they are to last that's not possible with mubarak in the shades...The whole stuff reminds me of the piece that felix morrow, yeah the american trot, wrote about the spanish revolution, quite leninist anno, however both powers cannot coexist for long.

well they are the key as long as the military does not, based on a newly found "politically solution", come forth and kindly ask them to step down, as has happened in tunisia... don't know if the would comply though...

well there seem to be different tendencies and different classes among them... their being based on neighborhoods, they sure will be interclassist to a degree... but which elements within them will gain prominence? that is not to be determined, because it will change over time and for a lot of reasons... there seem to be outright gated-community-like neighborhood vigilantes, too, as these gusy suggest: http://signalfire.org/?p=7018

can you try and find the text you mentioned? sounds interesting.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has said that he will not stand for re-election in September, as protests against his rule grow.

Speaking on state TV, Mr Mubarak promised constitutional reform, but said he wanted to stay until the end of his current presidential term.

The announcement came as tens of thousands rallied in central Cairo urging him to step down immediately.

The demonstration was the biggest since protests began last week.

The BBC's Jim Muir, among the protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square, says the crowd erupted in jubilation after hearing the president's speech.

Egyptians are patient, he says, and may be prepared to wait for a few more months for his departure.

Mr Mubarak said he would devote his remaining time in power to ensuring a peaceful transition of power to his successor.

But he criticised the protests, saying what began as a civilised phenomenon turned into a violent event controlled by political cowards.

He said he had offered to meet all parties but there were political powers that had refused dialogue.

Leaders of the protests had called on Mr Mubarak to step down by Friday, when demonstrators were planning to march on the presidential palace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12340923

Juan Conatz

The BBC's Jim Muir, among the protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square, says the crowd erupted in jubilation after hearing the president's speech.

What the fuck is he talking about? They were throwing shoes at the screen. They are now chanting 'get out, get out'.

Every other reporter says there was a huge outpouring of hostility during and after the speech.

heard when he said he would die on egyptian soil people were chanting 'revolution until death'

watching AJ now army tank is driving at demonstrators in alexandira, guns firing in the air

Al Jazeera reports that some counter-revolutionary groups are already agitating in Alexandria against the protesters. It certainly seems foolish to think that Mubarak and his cronies will step down peacefully.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54309

article by mohammad omer about the bedouin in the sinai

As mentioned in previous news reports, Obama's message via Wisner, was Mubarak can stay till September. Dream on...

NYT: Mubarak Says He Won’t Run for President Again

Mr. Mubarak’s announcement came after President Obama urged him not to run, effectively withdrawing America’s support for its closest Arab ally, according to American diplomats in Cairo and Washington.

The message was delivered by Frank G. Wisner, a seasoned envoy with deep ties to Egypt, the American diplomats said. Mr. Wisner’s message, they said, was not a blunt demand for Mr. Mubarak to step aside now, but rather firm counsel that he should make way for a reform process that would culminate in free and fair elections in September to elect a new Egyptian leader.

Apparently the great blandishizer himself is currently making a statement. More soon.

jesse blue

Valeriano Orobón Fernández

The key are the comittees, what are they? who are their members? which differences are among them and are they mainly interclassist? Could they launch a constituent assembly able to supersede mubarak's government? If it's not like that already and if they are to last that's not possible with mubarak in the shades...The whole stuff reminds me of the piece that felix morrow, yeah the american trot, wrote about the spanish revolution, quite leninist anno, however both powers cannot coexist for long.

well they are the key as long as the military does not, based on a newly found "politically solution", come forth and kindly ask them to step down, as has happened in tunisia... don't know if the would comply though...

well there seem to be different tendencies and different classes among them... their being based on neighborhoods, they sure will be interclassist to a degree... but which elements within them will gain prominence? that is not to be determined, because it will change over time and for a lot of reasons... there seem to be outright gated-community-like neighborhood vigilantes, too, as these gusy suggest: http://signalfire.org/?p=7018

can you try and find the text you mentioned? sounds interesting.

Here, http://www.marxists.org/archive/morrow-felix/1938/revolution-spain/index.htm

be careful with morrow anyway...however i suscribe his two powers theory; destruction or submission.

The latest piece from the ever-informative Bob Fisk

Secular and devout. Rich and poor. They marched together with one goal

[...]
There were several elements about this unprecedented political event that stood out. First was the secularism of the whole affair. Women in chadors and niqabs and scarves walked happily beside girls with long hair flowing over their shoulders, students next to imams and men with beards that would have made Bin Laden jealous. The poor in torn sandals and the rich in business suits, squeezed into this shouting mass, an amalgam of the real Egypt hitherto divided by class and regime-encouraged envy. They had done the impossible – or so they thought – and, in a way, they had already won their social revolution.

And then there was the absence of the "Islamism" that haunts the darkest corners of the West, encouraged – as usual – by America and Israel. As my mobile phone vibrated again and again, it was the same old story. Every radio anchor, every announcer, every newsroom wanted to know if the Muslim Brotherhood was behind this epic demonstration. Would the Brotherhood take over Egypt? I told the truth. It was rubbish. Why, they might get only 20 per cent at an election, 145,000 members out of a population of 80 million.

A crowd of English-speaking Egyptians crowded round me during one of the imperishable interviews and collapsed in laughter so loud that I had to bring the broadcast to an end. It made no difference, of course, when I explained on air that Israel's kindly and human Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman – who once said that "Mubarak can go to hell" – might at last get his way, politically at least. The people were overwhelmed, giddy at the speed of events.

So was I. There I was, back on the intersection behind the Egyptian Museum where only five days ago – it feels like five months – I choked on tear gas as Mubarak's police thugs, the baltigi, the drug addict ex-prisoner cops, were slipped through the lines of state security policemen to beat, bludgeon and smash the heads and faces of the unarmed demonstrators, who eventually threw them all out of Tahrir Square and made it the Egyptian uprising. Back then, we heard no Western support for these brave men and women. Nor did we hear it yesterday.

Amazingly, there was little evidence of hostility towards America although, given the verbal antics of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton these past eight days, there might have well been. One almost felt sorry for Obama. Had he rallied to the kind of democracy he preached here in Cairo six months after his investiture, had he called for the departure of this third-rate dictator a few days ago, the crowds would have been carrying US as well as Egyptian flags, and Washington would have done the impossible: it would have transformed the now familiar hatred of America (Afghanistan, Iraq, the "war on terror", etc) into the more benign relationship which the US enjoyed in the balmy 1920s and 1930s and, indeed, despite its support for the creation of Israel, into the warmth that existed between Arab and American into the 1960s.

But no. All this was squandered in just seven days of weakness and cowardice in Washington – a gutlessness so at odds with the courage of the millions of Egyptians who tried to do what we in the West always demanded of them: to turn their dust-bowl dictatorships into democracies. They supported democracy. We supported "stability", "moderation", "restraint", "firm" leadership (Saddam Hussein-lite) soft "reform" and obedient Muslims.

This failure of moral leadership in the West – under the false fear of "Islamisation" – may prove to be one of the greatest tragedies of the modern Middle East. Egypt is not anti-Western. It is not even particularly anti-Israeli, though this could change. But one of the blights of history will now involve a US president who held out his hand to the Islamic world and then clenched his fist when it fought a dictatorship and demanded democracy.
[...]
And what were the Americans doing? Rumour: US diplomats were on their way to Egypt to negotiate between a future President Suleiman and opposition groups. Rumour: extra Marines were being drafted into Egypt to defend the US embassy from attack. Fact: Obama finally told Mubarak to go. Fact: a further evacuation of US families from the Marriott Hotel in Cairo, escorted by Egyptian troops and cops, heading for the airport, fleeing from a people who could so easily be their friends.

attempts at recuperation look strong today!

-internet is back on
-pro mubarak forces are on the street, appear aggressive
-stories of people 'switching sides' that they have gotten enough from mubarak now... gamal has no chance and that is a "victory"....

well what happens today should be telling. Amr Moussa yesterday suggested it would be enough if mubarak said he wouldn't stand. I think that works well for both him and baradei, gives them a chance to 'prove themselves' to an egyptian populace who don't know them well. If this stops here, I wonder what will happen to the brothers/bedouin escaped from prison?

from G liveblog

11.30am: The families of those arrested in the protests are demanding answers about their loved ones at an army headquarters in Alexandria where they are being detained, writes Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director for Human Rights Watch.

About 150 angry relatives are gathered outside the army HQ in Alexandria, desperate for information about their missing relatives. The army has not produced any lists of those they have detained, and have not allowed anyone into the base to visit the detainees. We tried to gain access, but were refused. One old woman told me she had been there since Saturday, looking for her son, and had no news. The relatives are very concerned about the treatment the detainees are receiving.

As we were there, a group of female relatives of the detained started a protest, shouting 'We want our children, give us back our children!'

The situation is very tense. The army has used the HQ as a detention centre for all of the suspected looters and other troublemakers handed over to them by the neighbourhood security committees since Friday. This is an unfamiliar role for the army, and they are clearly at a loss as to what to do. Many of the detainees are probably innocent, just caught in the wrong neighborhood without identification.

The army is in a difficult position, as it has no evidence of wrongdoing by most of the detainees and no judicial system to process or release them. But they are the only functioning security institution.

At the very least, the army should publish a complete list of the detainees and allow lawyers to visit them and ensure they are properly treated. And they should release the innocent as soon as possible.

Fuck, looks like there's a strong attempt to try and break the spirit of the protesters.

I hope they can resist it, but it seems like revolutionary potential is growing weaker. The army now also seems to be taking the government line: 'go back to your homes, you've been listened to'.

Shit.

I think we should take the media reports today with a grain of salt. I reckon pro mubarak sentiments among egyptians will be over-reported, if not out of straight bias, then out of the fact that it is a more unique news story (at the moment) than demonstrations are still continuing. It looks to me as if attempts at recuperation are heavy handed, and we may yet see a backlash. Even if people are quiet until friday (in terms of demonstrations, internet should be a livewire), this could make the revolution lose momentum, or it could be a bit of respite for worn out demonstraters. Time will tell, I still hold out hope.

AJ: police are back, they are behind pro mubarak demonstrators clashing with pro revolutionaries, tear gas have gone off and army has no tear gas, AJ Arabic reports police IDs among pro mubarak demonstrators

This is insane. Obviously police involvement here. From what I can tell at the moment the Anti government lot seem to have held them off for a bit, but this is just going to run all day.

someone mentioned the mounted cops had whips

3arabawy:

SabbyDhalu Let's stop calling them pro Mubarak supporters. Call them plain clothes police. They're armed + organised #Egypt #Jan25

NDP thugs try to storm @shorouk_news office in Mohandessin RT

rallaf On Aljazeera, a man is showing police ID of one of the thugs who charged the peaceful protesters! #jan25 #Egypt

RT @justimage: Anti Mubarak captured horses from pro Mubarak, kids and others riding them around tahrir. #jan25 #egypt

G liveblog:

1.24pm:Mubarak supporter came in on camels and horses, according to AP.

Several thousand supporters of President Hosni Mubarak, including some riding horses and camels and wielding whips, attacked anti-government protesters today as Egypt's upheaval took a dangerous new turn.

In chaotic scenes, the two sides pelted each other with stones, and protesters dragged attackers off their horses.

The turmoil was the first significant violence between supporters of the two camps in more than a week of anti-government protests. It erupted after Mubarak went on national television the night before and rejected demands he step down immediately and said he would serve out the remaining seven months of his term.

In the early afternoon around 3,000 Mubarak supporters break through a human chain of anti-government protesters trying to defend thousands gathered in Tahrir.

Chaos erupted as they tore down banners denouncing the president. Fistfights broke out as they advanced across the massive square in the heart of the capital. The anti-government protesters grabbed Mubarak posters from the hands of the supporters and ripped them.

The two sides began hurling stones and bottles and sticks at each other, chasing each other as the protesters' human chains moved back to try to shield the larger mass of demonstrators at the plaza's centre.

At one point, a small contingent of pro-Mubarak forces on horseback and camels rushed into the anti-Mubarak crowds, swinging whips and sticks to beat people. Protesters retaliated, dragging some from their mounts, throwing them to the ground and beating their faces bloody.

Protesters were seen running with their shirts or faces bloodied, some men and women in the crowd were weeping. A scent of tear gas wafted over the area, but it was not clear who had fired it.

The army troops who have been guarding the square had been keeping the two sides apart earlier in the day, but when the clashes erupted they did not intervene. Most took shelter behind or inside the armored vehicles and tanks stationed at the entrances to Tahrir.

My, and most people's I presume, fears of violent counterrevolution have sadly been confirmed today. At this stage, if the army steps in on the side of the government, the revolt will probably be crushed. It is very disturbing to watch these armed thugs charge into the crowd of protesters (CNN is airing some grainy but pretty suggestive footage atm).

I don't know what the fuck the army is up to. First they let the Mubarak 'supporters' into the square without taking weapons off them. Now they are apparently trying to seperate the two sides.

Seems like the journalists have finally come to the correct conclusion - the protestors are actually police.

Has there been any development in the direction of a general strike?

I honestly think the Army might have been caught slightly on the hop. It wouldnt suprise me as there does seem to be genuine sympathy from some quarters of the Army. Trying to play them off, rather than directly commanding them.

But I've never seen anything like this, so its just idle speculation really at this point

One thing I am thinking: the undercover police (as one tweet suggested, we shouldn't really call them pro-mubarak demonstrators. another I saw referred to them as 'anti-revolutionaries' which I suppose is apt and vague enough to include any mubarak supporters not on the state payroll) are being quite heavy handed, in my opinion too soon. This should work against recuperation. People should be legitimitely outraged at what's happening, if not exactly surprised. It is disgusting to see and read this and I worry for my friends there now, and I know I am writing this from the safety of london, but:

If they had not been so heavy handed, if their recuperation efforts work, and mubarak is allowed to stay til september (something I think the opposition parties want but will not (besides amr moussa) say, as they have to show themselves to be tough in front of the protesters, but surely want more time to build their repressed political movements) I reckon we would see a much greater massacre than we are seeing now, only it wouldn't be on al jazeera.

huge rocks and chairs being thrown down from tops of buildings

rock tossers from rooftops apparently were throwing at anti govt people, friend who saw it says, at the same time the thugs started tossing mollies down below, maybe coordinated...

AJ says people were running for their lives, rocks were huge you can imagine

anti mubarak demonstrator inside square next to large rocks falling sounds quite scared, says tens of injured, can't get ambulances, no medical care, tanks at both entrances but can't do anything without hitting both

everytime the pro mubarak people try to break in the square we push them out but at the cost of many wounded on our side each time

men at front lines trying to protect us, women in the middle chanting we're peaceful...

she's crying

not the same interview but sounds about the same time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqoRzSkmX88

http://ow.ly/i/7LHa
picture of the mounted charge earlier on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGeVjAJ0MWE
and video of the same
-----
I'll try to combine posts more so as not to spam the thread, just got this in my FB news feed:

@Dima_Khatib: New York Times reporter @NickKristof confirms he saw buses arrive onto Tahrir Square full of people armed, described as very menacing
----
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/02/obama-to-mubarak-license-to-murder.html

also from the angry arab:
class conflict in Egypt: the upper class shows its ugly head
""The poor people think that if Mubarak leaves they will be rich," said Farag, the jeweler. "Will the price of meat drop from $3 [a pound] to 30 cents if he goes?" "These people take four wives and have 15 or 20 kids and then wonder why they are poor," said Hani Farouk, 33, who lives in the wealthy suburb of Maadi."
-----
army special forces in tahrir:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elhamalawy/5404489225/

It looks to me like Mubarak is finished. Now, a military junta under the intelligence boss Suileman is running Egypt. There's a misconception above that the army is a solid, homogeneous unit that either backs the demonstrators or confronts them - that is a simplistic picture, it is not. There are many conscript elements liable to side with the masses and there is a very strong element that is not only supporting the state but is the state. Special and secret forces are everywhere and they will have the backing of the US and the British (the current head of MI6 is the recent British ambassador to Egypt - he will know Suileman and his cronies very well. The latter is also well connected to the CIA). According to The Guardian today, Suileman doesn't "just pull the strings but the ropes as well".

I may be wrong, but to me yesterday Tahrir Square looked like a kettle; massive and sophisticated yes, but a kettle nevertheless with pressure relief valves, exits and entrances dotted around some definitely controlled by the army (and we know that there are at least some special forces surrounded the Square - and these have probably been reinforced).

Another brief point: leftism has generally seen the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza at the "cutting edge" of the class struggle in the Arab world. Such a view has been blown to pieces by these revolts which has shown the Palestinians as extremely weak and under the control of Fatah and Hamas. This has further exposed the position of leftism (by that I mean the SWP, etc.) as supporters of imperialist division. Though no doubt they are jumping on the "revolutionary bandwagon" now.

EA live blog:

1545 GMT: Reports of a petrol bomb thrown at the National Museum, where the front-line battle has been waged. An ambulance is trying to make its way to Tahrir Square.

1540 GMT: P.J. Crowley of the State Department has posted on Twitter, "We reiterate our call for all sides in #Egypt to show restraint and avoid violence."

That has brought the short, sharp response from a Middle East analyst: "ALL SIDES?"

1523 GMT: An Army vehicle with pro-Mubarak supporters appears to have moved towards Tahrir Square.

1513 GMT: Mohamed ElBaradei calls for Army intervention.

An Al Jazeera correspondent says he was attacked during a broadcast by a pro-Mubarak group but was saved by warning shots from the Army.

1510 GMT: More on-air shouting, close to panic, from an observer for Al Jazeera English who talks of "tens" of injured: "Where are the ambulances?....There is no one to help us."

She says every pro-Mubarak charge into the Square has been repulsed but "each time we have tens of wounded".

AJ liveblog:

5:11pm Female anti-government protester telling Al Jazeera that they cannot leave the square even if she wanted to - she is crying on air and sounds very scared and emotional.

5:07pm Al Jazeera's web producer in Cairo says that a number of people are being hit by rocks and anti-government demonstrators are also being targeted from buildings above.

They are throwing Molotov cocktails at the anti-Mubarak protesters. The army has backed off from the Corniche - they used to have a few tanks on the beachfront road, but they have pulled out now.

g liveblog:

3.42pm: Al-Jazeera just showed some kind of burning object being thrown from a building into the crowd in central Cairo.

3.39pm: Al-Jazeera is showing smoke rising from a building in the centre of Cairo.

3.31pm: Al-Jazeera is now reporting pro-Mubarak supporters dropping concrete blocks off the roofs of buildings on to protesters. I can't confirm that.

odd one this: http://www.google.com/crisisresponse/egypt.html

It looks like molotovs are being heavily used against protesters right now. Pro-Mubarak thugs are indiscriminately attacking everyone, including (Western) journalists.

It's looking like a massacre. The protestors are holding on, but every time they resist more get killed and injured.

What happens next? I just can't figure out where Egypt goes from here.

Footage on CNN shows a truck that is now on fire, and the sound of at least one machine gun can be heard in the background. This is looking to become increasingly brutal.

Anderson Cooper, who is on location, claims that the people in the square "are now trapped."

@DailyNewsEgypt: Witness said organizers paying people LE 100 to take part in the pro-Mubarak rally: AFP #jan25#Egypt

the google link above has a live twitter feed thing... idk if that's normal for twitter users, I don't use twitter, but I find it useful

someone on twitter (@AhmedFatah) is claiming the army is actually moving to kettle the protesters and close off the square's exits.

Does anyone have any news as to what's happening in other cities? Are massacres taking place elsewhere?

Useful backgrounder piece - Paul Amar: Why Mubarak is Out

[...]In Egypt the police forces (al-shurta) are run by the Interior Ministry which was very close to Mubarak and the Presidency and had become politically co-dependent on him. But police stations gained relative autonomy during the past decades. In certain police stations this autonomy took the form of the adoption of a militant ideology or moral mission; or some Vice Police stations have taken up drug running; or some ran protection rackets that squeezed local small businesses. The political dependability of the police, from a bottom-up perspective, is not high. Police grew to be quite self-interested and entrepreneurial on a station-by-station level. In the 1980s, the police faced the growth of “gangs,” referred to in Egyptian Arabic as baltagiya. These street organizations had asserted self-rule over Cairo’s many informal settlements and slums. Foreigners and the Egyptian bourgeoisie assumed the baltagiya to be Islamists but they were mostly utterly unideological. In the early 1990s the Interior Ministry decided “if you can’t beat them, hire them.” So the Interior Ministry and the Central Security Services started outsourcing coercion to these baltagiya, paying them well and training them to use sexualized brutality (from groping to rape) in order to punish and deter female protesters and male detainees, alike. During this period the Interior Ministry also turned the State Security Investigations (SSI) (mabahith amn al-dawla) into a monstrous threat, detaining and torturing masses of domestic political dissidents.

Autonomous from the Interior Ministry we have the Central Security Services (Amn al-Markazi). These are the black uniformed, helmeted men that the media refer to as “the police.” Central Security was supposed to act as the private army of Mubarak. These are not revolutionary guards or morality brigades like the basiji who repressed the Green Movement protesters in Iran. By contrast, the Amn al-Markazi are low paid and non-ideological. Moreover, at crucial times, these Central Security brigades have risen up en masse against Mubarak, himself, to demand better wages and working conditions. Perhaps if it weren’t for the sinister assistance of the brutal baltagiya, they would not be a very intimidating force. The look of unenthusiastic resignation in the eyes of Amn al-Markazi soldiers as they were kissed and lovingly disarmed by protesters has become one of the most iconic images, so far, of this revolution.
[...]
Paralleling the return of organized national(ist) capital associated with the military and ranged against the police (a process that also occurred during the struggle with British colonialism in the 1930s-50s) there has been a return of very powerful and vastly organized labor movements, principally among youth. 2009 and 2010 were marked by mass national strikes, nation-wide sit-ins, and visible labor protests often in the same locations that spawned this 2011 uprising. And the rural areas have been rising up against the government’s efforts to evict small farmers from their lands, opposing the regime’s attempts to re-create the vast landowner fiefdoms that defined the countryside during the Ottoman and British Colonial periods. In 2008 we saw the 100,000 strong April 6 Youth Movement emerge, leading a national general strike. And in 2008 and just in December 2010 we saw the first independent public sector unions emerge. Then just on 30 January 2011 clusters of unions from most major industrial towns gathered to form an Independent Trade Union Federation. These movements are organized by new leftist political parties that have no relation to the Muslim Brotherhood, nor are they connected to the past generation of Nasserism. They do not identify against Islam, of course, and do not make an issue of policing the secular-religious divide. Their interest in protecting national manufacturing and agricultural smallholdings, and in demanding public investment in national economic development dovetails with some of the interests of the new nationalist capital alliance.
[...]

AJ English is showing demonstrators breaking up the pavement... not sure if they're pro or anti revolution

commentator says she 'doesn't know what they're doing, maybe they're tidying up' hahaha...

Useful collection of articles on history of Egyptian workers movement and recent strikes; http://www.solidaritycenter.org/files/pubs_egypt_wr.pdf

sorry I thought I already posted this

http://twitter.com/mar3e
this feed seems good for mahalla

In #Mahalla now the NDP have collected the whole thugs from all over the villages near Mahalla to clash with the peaceful protesters #Jan25

We returned back to avoid the clashes and to collect each other again at 6pm to protest again in Mahalla #Mahalla #Jan25

One pro Mubarak demonstrator: Sergeant Yasin Ali Mohamed Ali, from 10th of Ramadan police station.

In relation to the impact of the Contra violence, I'd like to pick up on a point squaler raised in #347. It's highly possible that the timing and the viciousness of this onslaught may turn out to be a strategic error.

After yesterday's exertions, it's clear that most protestors have to go home, to sleep, eat, look after children & family and pick up work (whether formal employment or informal economy) and other necessary activities. But they'll be watching all this on the news. And come Friday, after prayers, we will see what the reaction of the mass of people will be to today's provocations by the baltagiya, cops and other Contra mercenaries.

The attacks of today may well increase the possibility of unleashing an insurgent wave that will make all the West's plans of an "orderly transition" utopian. Or perhaps not. Perhaps the sight of unarmed demonstrators being beaten bloody by the bullies of the old regime will intimidate the bulk of Egyptian workers into abandoning any hopes for real change. I don't know. But somehow I doubt it.

The call has gone out: the so-called 'Friday of Departure' has been moved; it's not tonight. Anti-Mubarak demonstrators are calling everyone who participated yesterday to come to the square.

Also, it's completely unconfirmed, but I read a tweet saying that the square was indeed starting to fill up again. The Guardian reports that despite the atrocities, Anti-Mubarak protestors still hold the square.

Tweet:

The shabab totally evicted Mubarak's thugs from Talaat Harb. Tahrir is still under control of the shabab. Long live the revolution. #Jan25

What does Shabab mean in this context?

shabab is like crowd, usually of young boys/men

a friend tanslated some tweets from the AhmedFatah feed someone mentioned before, as it was all in arabic?

أغلب من أمسكنا بهم اليوم يحملون كارنيهات شرطة
Most of those we caught carry police "IDs"

الجيش بيحاول يقفل الميدان ويمنع المدد عننا بحجة بدأ حظر التجول #jan25
The army is attempting to shut down the square and prevent (supplies or reinforcement) from reaching us under the ruse of the curfew going into effect

محدش يقلق عليا إصاباتي سطحية في الرأس والبطن واليد لكن الشباب في الميدان يحتاجون المدد وبسرعة #jan25

Nobody should worry about me. My wounds are surface wounds in the head, abdomen and hand, yet the shabaab in the square need aid/supplies/reinforcement and quickly

نحتاج لاطباء واسعافات أولية وخصوصا الأقطان والمظهرات وأدوات خياطة جروح هنا في ميدان التحرير #jan25

We need doctors and first aid especially cotton, antiseptics and needles. There are wounds here at liberation square

الدماء في كل شبر في ميدان التحرير ولن نتراجع المجد للثوار وتحيا مصر

Blood in every [square] foot of LS and we won't retreat glory to the revolutionaries and long live egypt

It means male youth.

AJ reporter claims the state TV has just said the police has been officially deployed against the protesters and ordered to shoot. Someone on twitter reports "Gun fire from talaat harb st."

Edit: Khawaga beat me to it.

http://mycatbirdseat.com/2011/02/israeli-planes-carrying-crowd-dispersal-weapons-arrived-in-egypt/

my friend sent me this link, he says he is unsure of the veracity as the NGO it mentions has 'no trace of existence before this story' though it would not be at all surprising

mateofthebloke

Anderson Cooper, who is on location, claims that the people in the square "are now trapped."

he got beat up himself

from g liveblog:

5.30pm: Harriet Sherwood has sent an update from Alexandria, which thankfully so far not witnessed the violence seen in Cairo today:

Alexandria has today seen a fightback by supporters of the regime, challenging the protests of the anti-Mubarak camp. There were very ugly scenes in the square where the protests have been taking place all day until mid-afternoon when the anti-Mubarak protesters marched down the Corniche. Several times I thought I was about to witness bloodshed, but somehow the guys trying to keep the two sides apart managed to literally bundle the protagonists apart. Since then there have been rival groups marauding around Alexandria. It's now well after dark, and too dangerous to go out alone. But - so far - it's been threatening and ugly but nothing on the scale of civil war that seems to be erupting in central Cairo. People here are now extremely fearful and anxious; no one knows what the coming days will bring.

5.11pm: We've recieved a couple of very enlightening first person accounts of today's events that I would urge you to read. Thank you to both contributors.

The first is an anonymous account sent by email:

They came into the square and we blocked them peacefully, forming a human line and peacefully pushing them back . A number of thugs had infiltrated behind our human line and all of a sudden 70 people from behind us started running towards us from behind the line and started throwing rocks and stones and picking up pieces of wood from their side. This was the signal for other 'Pro-Mubarak' side to start reponding by throwing rocks. Our people retreated, they came forward - the point of stopping was where the army tanks were [next to the Egyptian Museum] and as we came forward people started throwing stones at us from the side of those tanks. This is significant because the only way you can get there is with the permission of the army.
Stone throwing was happening - then suddenly someone gets up on the tank shouting "People, stop stop stop, we can't behave like this! ' - and immediately another guy comes straight up holding a picture of Mubarak and the tank is swarmed with Mubarak supporters as if they're trying to stop violence! That was clearly a photo op. Once that photo opportunity had happened the 'Mubarak Protesters' got down from top of the tanks all of a sudden. Suddenly a whole load of camels and horses with people on top of them with whips came through the entrance right by the tanks. It was so clearly orchestrated that some of the young guys from the army were breaking ranks because they were so disillusioned and didn't want to be part of this bullshit. We managed to pull people off camels, and they all went back and it all returned to a vague normality and calmed down.

And this is from the comments section, from marwaa:

The first act of violence I saw was a family crossing street into Tahrir Square and a car passed by with a group of women and suddently they got out of the car and started cursing, intimidating and throwing stones as they ran after the family harassing them and other people. We started creating human chain around the square and inside the square we were putting signs calling it "Shuhada Square" (Martyr Square) to remember the 300 people who died so far. Peace was maintained inside the square. We decided to take a break and go home. As we are walking away from the square, suddenly I see pro Mubarak protesters on horses and camels riding down from Talaat Harb Square toward us, cursing me and my husband. They had whips and all kinds of weapons on them. I called to check on my friends who'd stayed in Tahrir Square and they began to shout that they are being beaten – my friend described to me what she was seeing: a 7-year-old-boy was wounded by stones thrown at him by the pro Mubarak campaigners. The anti Mubarak camp kept chanting: Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful but the pro camp kept pushing in and they had all kinds of weapons on them and the stone throwing fight began. In the meantime, all they have on national TV is a broadcast of peaceful protesters chanting pro-mubarak [slogans] and callers calling in blaming everything on the anti-Mubarak protests and saying that they deserve whatever happens to them because they didn't stop.

4.56pm: We mentioned the New York Times Pulitzer prize winning columnist Nicholas Kristof earlier today (2.52pm). He has now blogged on what he saw in Tahrir:

In my area of Tahrir, the thugs were armed with machetes, straight razors, clubs and stones. And they all had the same chants, the same slogans and the same hostility to journalists. They clearly had been organized and briefed. So the idea that this is some spontaneous outpouring of pro-Mubarak supporters, both in Cairo and in Alexandria, who happen to end up clashing with other side — that is preposterous. It's difficult to know what is happening, and I'm only one observer, but to me these seem to be organized thugs sent in to crack heads, chase out journalists, intimidate the pro-democracy forces and perhaps create a pretext for an even harsher crackdown.

petey

mateofthebloke

Anderson Cooper, who is on location, claims that the people in the square "are now trapped."

he got beat up himself

Yes, apparently he did.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/02/video-anderson-and-crew-attacked-in-cairo/

from streams of NouvelObs

NouvelObs:
18h25 - Paris The French Communist Party denounced the "thugs attacks Mubarak system" against the demonstrators and asked the French executive to respond.

18:20 - Cairo pro-Mubarak camel-riders arrested had identification cards of the Interior Ministry, according to Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya reported columnist Sultan Al-Qasimi and journalist of Dima Khatib al-Jazeera.

18:10 - Washington The highest ranking U.S. Admiral Mike Mullen, said he had "confidence" in the Egyptian army to ensure national security and the Suez Canal during a telephone conversation with his counterpart, General Sami Anan.

18:00 - Cairo protesters reported to the New York Times that they were approached to march with pro-Mubarak banners for 50 Egyptian pounds, or $ 8.50.

18:00 - Cairo There are lifeless bodies on Tahrir Square, reports the TV station Al-Arabiya, which interviewed a doctor present, leading columnist Sultan Al-Qasimi.

17h55 - Cairo The Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reported that two of its correspondents were arrested by pro-Mubarak protesters, before being taken to soldiers, accusing them of being agents of Mossad.

17:50 - Cairo According to Al-Jazeera, ambulances are heading towards Tahrir Square. The demonstrators implored residents near the site to provide first aid supplies to the injured, reports the columnist Sultan Al-Qasimi.

17:50 - Cairo Helicopters flew over Tahrir Square, reports the BBC reporter Lara Setrakian.

5:50 p.m.- Paris Costa Cruises, Europe's leaders in the cruise ship industry, announces the cancellation of scheduled stops in Egypt and Tunisia because of unrest in both countries, and have amended the route of its vessels.

17:45 - Cairo According envoy of France 24 on up protesters and foreign journalists were specifically targeted by supporters of Mubarak.

17h40 - Cairo The Molotov cocktails flying through Tahrir Square, touching "protesters and tanks. The lights are out on the square, "says the journalist of Al-Jazeera Dima Khatib.

5:35 p.m. - Cairo Anti-Mubarak Protesters set up makeshift barricades to "defend Tahrir Square" pro-Mubarak, reports CNN.

5:35 p.m. - Cairo "Night falls. A bloody battle rages here, Tahrir Square. We're stuck with the opposition, who is willing to fight to the death," says CNN reporter Ivan Watson.

17:30 - Cairo Tear gas fired against anti-Mubarak protesters at night near Tahrir Square, according to AFP on the spot.

Plus, it's not only Obama who wants Mubarak to stay as long as possible (and let's be clear, these attacks have been arranged after US envoy Wisner's arrival with messages of US support - the blood spilt today is on Obama's hands, all public statements of hypocritical disapproval, notwithstanding). Here's a tidbit from the Guardian from earlier:

Tony Blair has described Hosni Mubarak, the beleaguered Egyptian leader, as "immensely courageous and a force for good" and warned against a rush to elections that could bring the Muslim Brotherhood to power.

Tony Blair never fails to make the case for why he should be stabbed in the face.

from my FB newsfeed right now:

::SHEIKH QARDAWI CALLS ON ALL PEOPLE OF EGYPT TO COME OUT TO TAHREER SQUARE WITH FIRST AID KITS, FOOD, BLANKETS, AND IN BIG GROUPS FOR SAFETY. THERE ARE 4,000 WOUNDED. (FLASHLIGHTS MAY BE NEEDED TOO AS STREET LIGHTS OFF - hez) TAKE THE STREETS!! ALL OUT!!

well my friend is now (thankfully) translating more arabic tweets. I'll just update this post with them as they come

@ZeinabSamir: مفيش شرطة؟ مفيش جيش؟ الناس يا تنسحب يا تقتلوهم؟؟؟ يا كلاب
يا كلاب، انتم في النار وهم في الجنة

Is there no police? Is there no army? Either these people retreat or you kill them??? You dogs, you dogs, you are going to hell and they are going to heaven

ZeinabSamir@mffaswan انا كويسة، بس المتظاهرين السلميين في التحرير مهددين بمذبحة دلوقتي.. التلفزيون المصري بيهددهم علنا

I am fine, but the peaceful protesters in LS are susceptible to a massacre now.. egyptian tv is threatening them publicly

لستُ أدري

by ZeinabSamir
Egyptian state TV is still lying! It says Muslim Brotherhood is throwing Molotov from over buildings :S LAIRS! #Jan25 (edit: ok I see this cannot be a translation, he says it came from this: http://twitter.com/Lastoadri )

also from lastoadri:
Soha El Naqash, the 2nd media person to resign from Egyptian State TV, protesting against lies broadcasted! #Jan25

from hossam:
100 thugs r now marching in Hurghada, with knives, swords, carrying Mubarak's posters, terrorizing the citizens. #Jan25

Shubra and Imbaba are now organizing a great march in support of liberation square coming to Tahrir #jan25

Shubra and Imbaba are poor working class districts.

AJ English anchor says there are reports of the army preventing anyone from getting into the square.

CNN reporter says he's spoken to some people claim they've been ordered by their bosses to give their support for the pro-Mubarak reaction. This clearly shows that the counter-revolution is not just wanton violence by crazed Mubarakites, but that it is class warfare pure and simple.

My Egyptian friend has just posted on Facebook

"Protesters managed to beat the shit out of Mubarak's thugs in both Talaat Harb Square and the Complex at Tahrir Square, they are running away now. Reinforcements of protesters have broken curfew and are on their way to Tahrir Square right now."

robert geezer: transition must begin now, nothing else will be said

he spent a damn long time saying very fucking little

god watching him flounder around trying to make saying nothing look like saying something, it's like verbal aerobics

Right now (in a televised press conference) Robert Gibbs, U.S. White House Press Secretary, is decrying the "violence" in Egypt, saying it "must stop." What spectacular hypocrisy; the U.S. state claims to uphold a "universal set of values" that it clearly doesn't practice itself in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Hieronymous

Right now (in a televised press conference) Robert Gibbs, U.S. White House Press Secretary, is decrying the "violence" in Egypt, saying it "must stop." What spectacular hypocrisy; the U.S. state claims to uphold a "universal set of values" that it clearly doesn't practice itself in Iraq and Afghanistan.

yeah earlier in the week british officials (think cameron and hague) and probably some americans as well were saying they 'can't decide who should rule another country' hague called for evolutionary change

Hieronymous

Right now (in a televised press conference) Robert Gibbs, U.S. White House Press Secretary, is decrying the "violence" in Egypt, saying it "must stop."

this has been the white house line from the beginning, calling for "calm"

If it's possible that usa wants mubarak out, why is this bastard trying so hard to stay? Israel's fierce support against usa's will? usa's hidden agenda?

there was a demo half an hour ago at the manara in ramalah, just heard the PA is arresting people on the ground

Noam Chomsky: “This Is The Most Remarkable Regional Uprising That I
Can Remember”

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/2/noam_chomsky_this_is_the_most

http://ow.ly/3OTMP

This is about 15 mins long. Chomsky contrasts the current situation with Eastern Europe near the end of the clip.

from mar3e:

@Bounz in #Mahalla the NDP have bringed the whole thugs from all over the villages related to Mahalla to clash with us #jan25 #Tahrir

AJArabic مدير عام المواقع الأثرية في مصر : الرئيس مبارك فاشل والهجوم الذي تعرض له المتحف دعمه النظام #jan25 #Egypt #aljazeera

friend translated: The director general (or general manager) of the archaeological sites in egypt says: pres mubarak is a failure and the attack on the museum was supported by the regime

From now we are not a peaceful protesters , The next Friday gona be a real war between us and the Mubarak,s thugs #Jan25 #Tahrir

'No Gorbachev equivalent' perhaps being the most interesting comment.

my mate just called me to say france 24 has the best cameras on the ground... I have no tv and my computers video is crap but if anyone can look now it should be worth it

Gunfire and molotovs coming from the buildings above the protesters, Mubarak thugs still surging forward according to al-Jazeera TV.

On Channel 4 News tonight one person out of the square said that the tanks opened up and the thugs came in. Another said that some of those "arrested" by the crowds were identified as secret police, thugs and escaped convicts. Ministries sent their people to join the thugs. This was a kettle alright and the organisation of it, and the subsequent assault into it, has all the hallmarks of the secret service on a national basis.

It's quite possible that the US is facing two ways on this: one it doesn't want to see the open use of its military hardware, and two, its secret services are complicit in the repression. It wouldn't be the first time that the CIA has been in cahoots with local gangsters in order to attack the forces of dissent.

One would think that in the short term only a significant show of force from the working class could hold the hand of the state and its forces.

8.44pm: Jack Shenker is one block north of Tahrir Square, where he says there is "intense fighting".

I can see Molotov cocktails being thrown from different roofs...There are two battles going on, one on the ground and one in the air, on the rooftops...They are throwing petrol bombs down on the crowd.

AJ is reporting the Anti-Mubarak protestors have pushed the Pro-Mubarak forces back and built a barricade to the north.

They still hold the square.

Squaler, thank you so much for translating those twitter posts! It's been unbelievable reading them.. please keep it up!

To be honest, this whole situation in Egypt is unbelievable.. I read this thread just a couple of hours ago before going to work (incidentally, I taught an English class based around the Egyptian uprising!) and when I came back there were 30+ new posts! It's all just developing so fast!

Will watch that Chomsky video tonight.. phew!

From another site:

6.55pm: We received a very interesting email from a Brit living in Cairo, who does not want to be named:

" I received a txt message from "Egypt Lovers" telling me to go to Tahrir Square and show my support for the regime! The message was translated for me by a friend and I understand it has been sent to everyone. How did the pro-Mubarak supporters do that? How did they get everyones phone numbers? Perhaps because "Egypt Lovers" are actually the interior ministry...?"

http://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/burbuja-inmobiliaria/205292-hilo-oficial-sobre-egipto-ii-5.html