Photo gallery of anarchists and other workers who attempted a social revolution after the military uprising of the right-wing General Francisco Franco in July 1936. Thanks to anarchismus.at for supplying some of the pictures.
Photo gallery of anarchists and other workers who attempted a social revolution after the military uprising of the right-wing General Francisco Franco in July 1936. Thanks to anarchismus.at for supplying some of the pictures.
awesome stuff. i am writing a
awesome stuff. i am writing a book on militant antifascism and have just started the spanish chapter (eeek!) do you know who owns copyright on these at all?
also great to see so many
also great to see so many women in the pix too!
Fantastic photos and a
Fantastic photos and a reminder of a heroic era .As stated above the photos emphasise the pivotal role of the female comrades played in the struggle.
what's with the black dude
what's with the black dude (fifth row from the top, second column from the left)?
wojtek wrote: lwhat's with
Spanish quest to identify black soldier who fought against fascism in civil war
I've added another photo of
I've added another photo of African-Americans in the Spanish Civil War, third row from bottom, second from left, who were part of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade as well
Related to this, what do
Related to this, what do people think about adding photos of the International Brigades? I was torn on this because obviously their intentions were good (understatement) but in the end they served largely as functionaries for the Communist Party who ultimately killed the revolution..
That said, not putting them in loses the international aspect of the civil war.. what do people think?
I would stick in a couple,
I would stick in a couple, you could always add a bit of critical text in the title box
Ed wrote: Quote: Related to
I bought a copy of the book 'Britons in Spain' by William Rust after I heard the song 'Viva la Quince Brigada' by Christie Moore (renamed from the original and incorrect 'Viva la Quinta Brigada'). I didn't know when I bought the book that Rust was the Spanish correspondent for the Daily Worker. It is one of the most amazing pieces of 'journalism' I've ever read, maintaining right up to the Ebro offensive that the Republic was winning and that every single action was another nail in the coffin of Spanish fascism. There is an almost ludicrous section on why saluting officers is necessary for morale in the People's Army ("almost ludricous" only because it was so blatantly hierarchical it can't actually be ludicrous). As late as September 1938 Rust wrote:
"The Republican Army, now one million strong and yet to reach full strength, has broken the offensive power of Franco's forces and ... is preparing for further advances".
It is Communist doublespeak written in Boy's Own language. It concentrates on the British Battalion, who lost 500 dead, 1200 wounded. The International Brigades were renowned for their bravery and it hardly needs to be said that the vast majority went to Spain with high ideals, but those overwhelmingly working-class idealists were used shamelessly by the Communist hierarchy and its bourgeois partners. The worker-soldiers of the International Brigades were betrayed by the Stalinists just as surely as the CNT and POUM were betrayed and the revolution was betrayed. It is heart-rending to read about the personal sacrifices of those men with the benefit of hindsight where we can see the duplicity of Stalin and his henchmen and the power-obsessed machinations of the socialists.
Which is a roundabout way of saying I would add their photos. They may have been misguided (in my eyes) in their party allegiances but they often gave their lives and I can almost guarantee they would have stood by their anarchist comrades given different leadership. Communists they may have been but they were working men who fought for an ideal which, but for the nuances of left-wing ideology, we nearly share and which had a common enemy.
Ed, I'd love to have a copy
Ed, I'd love to have a copy of the photo of the crowd in the bullring to blow up to poster size. Do you know if there's any way of getting hold of a hi-res image?
Some great pics. Am I being
Some great pics. Am I being daft or is it not possible to save these images? Right click - save as only gives the option to save as an HTML file?
If you want to save the
If you want to save the images right click on the thumbnail and click "save target as"
Anatta wrote: Am I being
Yes you are :oops:
New photos added..
New photos added..
Thanks so much for this
Thanks so much for this impressive photo gallery!
Saw this on facebook (Women
Saw this on facebook (Women working in a hemp factory collectivised by the CNT-FAI in Barcelona, 1936). I can't crop the caption atm, so posting here as a reminder to add it.
In this war, more than 6,800
In this war, more than 6,800 Catholic clergy were slaughtered, including 13 bishops, more than 2,360 monks and friars, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, as well as 283 nuns were killed! Thousands of churches were destroyed, not to mention the laity who were bullied and harassed by militia men and women who invaded their homes and either confiscated property or who just outright murdered them!
Most of the intense killing occurred in the first six months of the conflict, but by the end of the war about 20% of the nation’s Catholic clergy was dead.
I’m not a fascist but I would say that Franco treated the Communists to their own murderous methods - they received a taste of their own medicine!
another catholic "victim". i
another catholic "victim". i thought i'd gotten away from that on a board like this.
Petey, This war also
This war also victimized 500,000 lay people. You just don't want to face the facts. I hope you "liberals" and "free-thinkers" (really? seriously?) are happy with all the oppression and bloodshed that your ancestors heaped upon over 100,000,000 innocent people within one generation-more bloodshed committed than by any other regime in the history of mankind.
Hitler may have murdered 6,000,000 people, this is true. But Communism is responsible for over 100,000,000 deaths!
You fight for freedom and liberty, but the crimes committed by your ancestors belie these concepts!
And thanks very much for selling my father's beloved Poland to the Russkies, hence depriving my people of their cherished freedoms! Way to go!
You liberals are such hypocrites!
Personally I am not a
Personally I am not a Communist, a liberal, or a free-thinker. I do not think anyone on this forum supports the antics of Stalinists anywhere or at any time; nor do I think anyone on this forum could be justifiably considered a liberal in the delightfully vague manner in which you use the term.
The Catholic Church in general, and its Spanish franchise in particular, has a nearly two thousand year-long history of murder, sexual predation, property confiscation, deliberate obfuscating control of virtually all education, and an unapologetic alignment with the rich and politically powerful. If you really want to play the numbers game to decide just how awful any particular ideology is, you should do a tally of the estimates of the following impeccably mainstream Catholic antics: The Crusades (including the annihilationist Abligensian adventure, and the nearly complete destruction of Rhineland Jewish settlements) -- and don't forget all their fellow-Christian Eastern Church folks killed in the Byzantine Empire who had the audacity not to follow the Pope); the Inquisition(s), the witch-hunts, the blessings of various national armies about to slaughter each other on the battlefields of Europe, Asia, and Africa, including the butcheries of WWI and WWII. And since the Church never did excommunicate Hitler and his followers, you'll have to include the Holocaust in that number as well. Your Church doesn't look so good in that numbers game now, does it? Regardless, I'm not a humanist either, so the numbers game is unimpressive.
But since you're into the numbers game, let's look at the record of the Spanish conflict. By all accounts, the raw number of people killed in the Republican zone dwarfs the number killed in the Nationalist zone, especially in the indiscriminate but deliberate targeting of civilians. The first major air bombardments of urban areas took place under the auspices of the Italian military in Spain. Then there was the bombing of Gernika by the Condor Legion, the Badajoz bullring massacre, and all the other events during the three-year conflict. That number could be increased quite a bit if you accept the post-1939 judicial murders carried out until 1975 (to which you would naturally reply that if the Communists and liberals and free-thinkers had won, they would have executed at least the same number, being the incarnation of evil and all).
I love trolls when it's my day off. But only when it's my day off. Tomorrow I'll ignore your massively ignorant provocations.
You may say that nobody on
You may say that nobody on this forum supports the antics of Stalinists; well, I don't want to judge every individual, maybe there are different political persuasions across the board. But the photos shown in this forum, I notice, are of militia men and women who, during this war, would pillage churches and set them on fire; invade convents and monasteries and drag priests, nuns and monks to their deaths; burn priests' and nuns' residences; invade private homes and confiscate contraband items (like religious items) and arrest and kill innocent civilians by the thousands. And because of them, Madrid, or anywhere in the Red Zone, would become a mighty bloodbath and conflagration. (And all this for the cause of Freedom and Liberty? Explain.)
Regarding what you mentioned about Hitler, I suggest you read a book by Rabbi (yes, Rabbi) David G. Dalin, "The Myth of Hitler's Pope." It describes how Pope Pius XII rescued many thousands of Jews from the Nazis.
-The Chief Rabbi of Rome, Zolle, considered the Pope his hero, and thus converted to the Catholic Faith.
-Catholic Poland was very instrumental in underground work to save Jews. Those laity, nuns and priests who were discovered were either imprisoned, murdered or both.
-Why would the Church excommunicate Hitler? He wasn't even Catholic. In fact, he and his followers practiced the occult.
-Russian Communist aggression was responsible for the slaughter of many Polish soldiers in the Katyn forest.
-I'm not anti-semitic, but would it be true that the Spanish Civil War was aided by Hollywood Jews? (Just asking. I only read this).
-Hitler's rabid policy of genocide affected nearly half of Catholic Poland. Even young Polish children were destined either for germanization or extermination. Their crime? They were Catholic Poles. Any slavic race was considered half dog or half pig and half human. Slavic Catholics are included in the 6,000,000 figure. (Edith Stein, though a Catholic nun, was nevertheless Jewish in race; given that, she was still gassed at Auschwitz).
-The Inquisiton and the Crusades pale in comparison to Communist attrocities. (Do some apologetic research).
-They also pale in comparison to the historical bloodthirsty maneuverings of Islam (mostly against Christianity). Not to mention Islam's oppressive regime.
-The Catholic Church's history of various forms of humanitarianism: education, hospitals, orphanages, charitable organizations (like the St. Vincent de Paul Society,etc), missionary work to help end poverty in third world nations (where the Faith is growing), medical centers, soup kitchens, shelters for the homeless, shelters for abused women, absolutely overrules your litany of attrocities you mentioned. Read the history of all our charitable organizations.
-In fact, if you were to study the entire history of the Church, you would find some sour grapes in our ranks, true, but that's because we're human. But apart from that, you would find that the Church has suffered everything from Roman persecutions, to Vandals, to Huns, to Barbarians, to the horrors of the French Revolution, to Socilaism, Nazism, Communism, bloody Islamic takeovers, ad infinitum. You would then see that whatever sour grapes we had in our history pale in comparison.
You are funny to the point of
You are funny to the point of self-parody.
OK. So? Don't just tell me
OK. So? Don't just tell me I'm funny, I mean, I already KNOW what I am, given I'm a Theater Arts major. Back your comment up. Show me where I am funny or misleading in the historical facts I present.
thanks Black Badger. i just
thanks Black Badger. i just couldn't. i've been there and left it all behind.
No matter what you guys say,
No matter what you guys say, just remember that most Europeans immigrated to the US to escape the type of regimes and ideologies you guys applaud. And thanks to our American soldiers (and disabled veterans) and the military might of this country, your freedoms have been preserved-----including your freedom to embrace Socialism, Communism, Liberalism or what have you.
Malyuta wrote: No matter what
There is so much wrong even just in this one paragraph that it's hard to know where to start..
First of all, 'regimes that we applaud'.. no one here supports Stalin or Stalinist-type regimes anywhere, in the past or now.. in fact, the pictures of the militamen and women above are mostly anarchists, who themselves were persecuted by the Stalinists, both in Spain and abroad.. so why you keep going on about what Stalinist Russia did here or there is really just confusing, and makes you look like a bizarre obsessive..
Secondly, sure, atrocities happened on both sides, innocent civilians were killed. Terrible things happen in war. But undoubtedly, as would be supported by non-radical writers like Anthony Beevor and Jason Webster, the biggest atrocities during the war were committed on the fascist side.. Guernica being the most obvious (remember how your brave Catholics stood up to the Nazis there?) but also in places like Badajoz City, where 1,500 were massacred after a battle and the General encouraged the rape of anti-fascists.. in fact, rape of political enemies was used systematically by fascists. And this is all still during the war, not counting the massacres and mass graves which happened afterwards..
On just a pure numbers game, even the most conservative estimates show that fascists killed at least double that of the anti-fascists; and that when fascist atrocities occured, it was done on the order of generals, unlike when they happened on the anti-fascist side and it was due to a breakdown in order.
And all the while that these atrocities were happening, and being ordered by fascist authorities, the Catholic Church still supported them.. top guys..
And yes, your American soldiers 'preserving freedoms', where exactly? By training contras and death squads across central America? Supporting the Khmer Rouge coz they were anti-Vietnamese, or the Thai monarchy in committing massacres and boiling rural peasants alive? Please, read some of these articles and come back here afterwards to talking about the freedoms the American govt have preserved.
From Paul Preston’s ‘The
From Paul Preston’s ‘The Spanish Holocaust’ (Harper Press, 2012):
‘In the case of the military rebels, a programme of terror and extermination was central to their planning and preparations. Because of the numerical superiority of the urban and rural working classes, they believed that the immediate imposition of a reign of terror was crucial.’
(Prologue, page xiv)
‘…the huge amount of research that has been carried out makes it possible to state that, broadly speaking, the repression by the rebels was about three times greater than that which took place in the Republican zone.’
(Prologue, pages xvii-xviii)
Exactly Auld-bod, whereas on
Exactly Auld-bod, whereas on the anti-fascist side atrocities happened, they happened as a side effect of the terrible things that happen in war, on the fascist side it was part of their strategy to terrorise a population into submission.
Also, extra-irony-lol for Malyuta celebrating the 'American preservation of democracy' while defending the Catholic Church in the Spanish Civil War (when it was on the side of a fascist coup against a democratic republic).. ;)
Imagine having as little
Imagine having as little understanding of anything as Malyuta does. The mind boggles.
Ed, Stalinist Russia WAS
Stalinist Russia WAS involved with the Spanish Civil War! This war not only had the full backing of Stalin, but Spanish children were targeted to be taken to the Soviet Union for indoctrination!
As for you guys' abysmal equating fascism with the Catholic Church, you have apparently no idea concerning the friction that existed between the Catholic Church and Mussolini. Despite his totalitarian government, given that Italy's citizenship was almost all devoutly Catholic, he was forced, against his will, to respect the rights of the Church. Pope Pius XI and the Italian government negotiated the Lateran Treaty and a Concordat. The government had to acknowledge the complete sovereignty of the Papacy and thus recognized Vatican City as an independent state. But during the years of Mussolini's fascist rule he violated the Concordat. Some examples: he imposed certain restrictions on marriage on the basis of race, he interfered with religious education and showed in many ways that he wished his totalitarian regime to be supreme over the Church. Though the Church did want amicable relations with the Italian government, it refused to sanction any violations of her rights. So much for your Catholic-Fascism equation.
Also, read about what Polish and other Slavic Catholics suffered at the hands of Nazism. Many thousands were brutally murdered because of harbouring Jews. And the Pope? He harboured over 800,000 Jews in the Vatican. But why was he "silent?" He was only protecting himself because the Nazis were going to kidnap him.
There goes your Catholic-Fascist theory (ies).
As for the Spanish Civil War, as a devout Catholic, I can only lament the numbers game insofar as Catholic Spain was concerned:
13 prelates massacred
14,000 Priests, Sisters, and Monks massacred
22,000 churches and chapels pillaged and burned
500,000 civilians massacred
Believe me, I care less about your anarchistic confreres of yore!
Malyuta wrote: -I'm not
"I'm not anti-semitic, but would it be true that the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world? (Just asking. But I heard Mel Gibson said it, so it must be true.)"
By the way, if you all are
By the way, if you all are against Stalinism like you say you are, then how come this website does not have any repercussions against his regime? Why ONLY fascism?
Plus I notice some of you sport a picture of Mao Zedung in your profile pics. You know he was another bloodthirsty butcher, right?
Can one of you do me a favor?
Can one of you do me a favor? Please show me how I can withdraw from this webpage, because I'm getting nowhere with you people (or reds). I'm sorry I created an account. I want to leave. I can't seem to find a way to get the hell out, someone needs to show me the prompts for that. Because no matter how brutal of a historical picture I present for you guys of your confreres of yore, you'll always look the other way. You are too comfortable in your leftist, red bubble.
Malyuta wrote: By the way, if
Try here: http://libcom.org/history/review-revolution-counterrevolution-class-struggle-moscow-metal-factory-worker-resistanc
Or here: http://libcom.org/history/strikes-against-stalin-1930s-russia-jeffrey-rossman
Malyuta wrote: Can one of you
Step 1: Move your cursor up to the top of your browser window. You should see a button with a little red cross.
Step 2: Click on the button.
Step 3: Congratulations, you have escaped from the evil communist webpage.
Auld-bod wrote: From Paul
yes i read that last year - or some of it, it made me too furious to finish it. even the author speaks of the emotional toll the research took on him.
Good riddance to bad garbage.
Good riddance to bad garbage.
And have fun continuing your
And have fun continuing your inebriation of red Kood-Aide!
For Malyuta, if you're still
For Malyuta, if you're still here..
Yes, but if you actually read our view on the civil war, Stalin's involvement had a negative impact on the working class and there efforts against fascism in the Spanish Civil War.. seriously, there are zero Stalin supporters here.. Also, you'll notice in my picture of Mao he's holding a Nike high-top trainer.. it's called irony (to be very clear: I feel the same way about Mao as I feel about Stalin, negatively)..
First, there's no equating of the Catholic Church with fascism here. I might have massive problems with the Catholic Church but it's not the same as fascism, nor are all Catholics fascists. But the Catholic Church supported fascism in Spain, no? Both before and after the Civil War? So what's that, like a 50 year period? How could that be anything apart from a completely disgraceful act?
As for Italy, yeah, sure the Church opposed Mussolini when it infringed on its rights, but that's hardly humanitarian, is it? Meanwhile the support of the Church was essential for Mussolini's rise to power.. any arguments they had after that were minor squabbles, as could be seen by the fact that the anti-fascist guerrilla movements in Italy were almost entirely made up of left-wingers, with very few Catholic formations (something you'd expect more of in such a Catholic country, no?).
Seriously though, not all Catholics are fascist and honestly I don't know much about whether the Pope saved 800,000 Jews from the Nazis or whatever. But even if it was true, does that excuse the fact that they aligned themselves with a fascist dictatorship is Spain for almost 50 years? That they helped Mussolini in his rise to power in Italy? Not to mention military dictatorships across Latin America?
And with regards to Spain, it's about time you caught on that the Catholic Church was, quite simply, on the side of those who advocated massacre, torture and rape of civilians as a military and political strategy.
In case anyone gives any
In case anyone gives any credence to the ravings of Malyuta in his post regarding the numbers of ‘Catholic Spain’ dead – 500,000 civilians massacred, etc.
Paul Preston in The Spanish Holocaust writes:
‘Recent scholarship, not only for Catalonia but also for most of Republican Spain, has dramatically dismantled the propagandistic allegations made by the rebels at the time. On 18 July 1938 in Burgos, Franco himself claimed that 54,000 people had been killed in Catalonia. In the same speech, he alleged that 70,000 had been murdered in Madrid and 20,000 in Valencia. On the same day, he told a reporter there had already been a total of 470,000 murders in the Republican zone. To prove the scale of Republican iniquity to the world, on 26 April 1940 he set up a massive state investigation, the Causa General, ‘to gather trustworthy information’ to ascertain the true scale of the crimes committed in the Republican zone. Denunciation and exaggeration were encouraged. Thus it came as a desperate disappointment to Franco when, on the basis of the information gathered, the Causa General concluded that the number of deaths was 85,940. although inflated and including many duplications, this figure was still so far below Franco’s claims that, for over a quarter of a century, it was omitted from editions of the published resume of the Causa General’s findings.’
(Prologue, page xix)
Preston’s book, as petey says, is a hard read and I’ve been digesting it in small bits. I think it gets worse as it goes on: 12 ‘Franco’s Slow War of Annihilation’, etc. The only thing I’ve read that’s comparable is Solzhenitsyn’s ‘The Gulag Archipelago’ trilogy.
Ed, The Church was AGAINST
The Church was AGAINST Mussolini and his regime. Perhaps read more on the Lateran Treaty and the Concordat between the Pope and Mussolini to settle the so-called Roman question.
As far as military brutalities in Latin America are concerned: Catholics were very often the target of these, not supporters. One example: Archbishop Oscar Romero who was Archbishop of San Salvador. He was very much an anti-fascist and dedicated his career to helping the poor. Consider this following famous saying of his: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."
He was shot and killed by right-winged forces.
Also, Cardinal Stepinac, of Yugoslavia, when Tito was in power, was victimized by both the Communists and the Nazis. The Communists accused him of being a Nazi supporter but then the Nazis imprisoned him. He died a martyr. He was against both regimes.
Also, any equation with fascism and Catholicism is a slap in the face to those Catholics who, during Hitler's regime, risked their lives by harbouring Jews-priests, nuns, and lay people. My people, Polish Catholics, suffered untold brutalities and indignities! Hitler referred to us as half-dog and half-human. His goal was to have Poland eliminated from the map and germanized, affecting both Jews and Catholics.
Malyuta, this has been great
Malyuta, this has been great but I'm getting very aware that this has stopped being a discussion about the Spanish Civil War and started being a conversation about Catholicism and fascism in general.. so I'd suggest either you start addressing all the things people have said here about the Catholic Church's involvement in the Spanish Civil War or you start a new thread in the forums about Catholicism's opposition to fascism around the world (you are of course free to do both)..
Really though, it is curious for me that, under a photo gallery about the Spanish civil war, your last post doesn't mention Spain once.. why is that?
Malyuta wrote: Ed, Also, any
Red Cross and Vatican helped thousands of Nazis to escape
Pius XII "preferred to see fascist war criminals on board ships sailing to the New World rather than seeing them rotting in POW camps in zonal Germany"
"The British dossiers...show that the pope secretly pleaded with Washington and London on behalf of notorious criminals and Nazi collaborators," Goni writes. Why did Pius help these murderers escape justice? Because he was convinced they would carry on the fight against communism elsewhere. It turns out that Pope Pius was one of the first cold-war warriors. In fact, the ratline conforms to a pattern of Vatican postwar action. Pius sought clemency for Arthur Greiser, who had murdered thousands of Polish Catholics and Jews (the Poles executed him anyway);
Hey Mal, I thought you were
Hey Mal, I thought you were leaving. Didn't your Catholic indoctrination teach you that it's a sin to tell a lie?
Admin snip: this is a no flaming forum.
jolasmo wrote: Malyuta
You can prove anything with facts, J.
flaneur, First of all, it's
First of all, it's very interesting how you twisted and added to my comment: you make it look like Nazis were harbouring Jews! LOL!
I suggest you read this following book written by a Jewish Rabbi (yes, Rabbi): "The Myth of Hitler's Pope, How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis" by Rabbi David G. Dalin. Here is a Jew dismantling and ripping to shreds all delusions about the Pope having been complicit in the holocaust.
Plus the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Rabbi Israel Zolli, considered Pope Pius XII his hero; he converted to the Catholic Faith after the war. And I'll repeat here: this Pope harboured around 800,000 Jews in the Vatican but the reason why he was "silent" is because the Nazis were going to kidnap him. I don't know who is bamboozling you with a bunch of twisted information; anti-Catholic liberal acadamia I presume.
Ed, I think your reason for
I think your reason for sporting a picture of Mao in your profile pic is a flimsy one. If anyone would sport a picture of Hitler for the same flimsy "irony" reason, what would you think of that person? Not very highly I presume. Both men were bloodthirsty butchers.
Uncreative and jolasmo,
Uncreative and jolasmo, thanks for the info.
Black Badger, I wanted to
I wanted to leave but there seem to be no prompts on this website to disable my account. Sorry for "lying."
Before you guys suspect I may
Before you guys suspect I may be a fascist or some extreme right winger, no! I'm a Democrat, and very in touch with helping the poor and downtrodden.
And before you go around labeling and stereotyping Catholics as fascists, then you may as well stereotype other people (which is precisely against your own values): that ALL Jews are rich, ALL African Americans have rhythm, All Native Americans can't hold their liquor, ALL gays are promiscuous and ALL Poles are dumb! Most Catholics I have ever known were moderate...many even progressive.
I KNOW what fascism has done to my father's beloved Catholic Poland! That regime practically turned that country upside down! Thanks to both that regime AND Communism, it was no longer the country daddy knew as a child. In fact, after the war, my father was not ever able to return to his hometown and live there again, because after the Germans did all their dirty work, his hometown was annexed into the Soviet Union!
I've been to Poland, I've been to Auschwitz and I've seen, with my own eyes, the atrocities both Catholics and Jews suffered thanks to that monster Hitler's smokestacks!
A Catholic priest, Fr. Maximillian Kolbe, gave his life for a Jewish family, otherwise the father of that family would have been killed.
We knew a Polish lady who lost a child because a Nazi kicked her in the stomach!
Every single Polish man I ever knew still had the concentration camp mark on his forearm (not my dad because he fought under General Eisenhower).
Poland, after the war, had a high rate of children with mental and emotional problems because of the war (read the book, "Did The Children Cry? Hitler's War Against Jewish and Polish Children, 1939-45." by Richard C. Lukas)
And really, when you give carte blanche to Fascism being grafted as a trademark to Catholicism, you are stepping on the memory and honor of my people-those who risked their lives by helping Jews escape the otherwise fate of being sent to the camps! Any discovery by the Gestapo would result in imprisonment and, in many cases, death!
i'd like to bring this back
i'd like to bring this back to the o.p.
Malyuta wrote: I'm a
holy mother of god
By grafting Fascism onto
By grafting Fascism onto Catholicism, you are laying at my doorstep something my people fought against during the war!
And petey, your point???
Malyuta wrote: Ed, I think
Malyuta wrote: And before you
Malyuta,are you even reading my posts? I said,
But I also said that for a wider discussion of the Catholic Church's relationship to fascism, please start another thread. This is a gallery of photos from the Spanish Civil War so can we keep discussion here related to... the Spanish Civil War.
Future off-topic posts (from anyone) will be deleted.
And before you go around
And before you go around labeling and stereotyping Catholics as fascists
Malyuta,are you even reading my posts? I said,
Seriously though, not all Catholics are fascist
Yes, Ed, I'm reading your posts; very attentively. You seem to think the Church officially supported Fascism. True, there may have been some isolated instances of fascistic behavior on the part of some individual Catholics (we're all human); But, as a whole? No, the Church never officially supported or condoned Fascism, at least not coming out of the Holy See. It suffered because of it as I have attempted to point out in this blog.
Ed, You wish for me to limit
You wish for me to limit my posts to the subject of the Spanish Civil War? Fine. Click on the above photo which comes out of the pictorial collection on this blog. This photo should speak volumes! And with that, I rest my case.
I'm guessing (coz it's not
I'm guessing (coz it's not obvious from what you're talking about) that you're referring to the picture of the militiamen 'executing' a statue of Christ.. if so, two things;
1) it's a statue.. I know that for you it represents something important (which is cool, I've no beef with people just coz they're religious), but it's nowhere near the same as, say, the mass murder of 1,500 civilians in one day at Badajoz City and the mass rape of survivors ordered by the military. I highlight ordered because, as was stated before, it's acknowledged that atrocities happened on both sides, but there's a difference between it happening as a result of all order breaking down, and it happening by diktat.. and ultimately it shows in the numbers killed..
2) you're failing to ask yourself why people would want to shoot symbols of the church? Your claim that fascistic sympathies was down to a few individuals is, to put it bluntly, bollocks.. seriously, just wikipedia that shit.. many of the groups on the side of the fascists were Catholics (like the Carlists) and fighting the republic to defend a Christian nation.. and as for there being no 'official' support from the Church..
Seriously, no matter how great some of the things that many Catholics have done were, they Catholic Church acted fucking disgustingly in the Spanish civil war..
And just to put that in
And just to put that in perspective, the Vatican refused to recognise the Italian state for over 60 years following Italian unification, only doing so after Mussolini's rise to power.
I found this when reading a
I found this when reading a review of Peter Day’s book, ‘Franco’s Friends – How British Intelligence Helped Bring Franco to Power In Spain’, on the Guardian web site:
Recently opened British security files have shown that the number of British volunteers to fight for the Republic was twice the number previously acknowledged be the authorities.
Ed wrote: 2) you're failing
this is the core of it. all this did not come out of nowhere, and though it might be hard to document victimizations by the clergy themselves, it was this clergy who supported and preached as godly a social system of degradation. the opening (iirc) of preston's book has a good vignette of this, some caudillo type haranguing his workers with olympian contempt. later in the book we meet characters who murdered from the same motives. we all have our (divinely authorized) places!
also i detect a cheap rhetorical trick above: if "our" people do a bad thing, it's an exception; if "their" people do it, it's characteristic. so malyuta thinks s/he sees in our pictures people who "would" kill clergy, though we know almost nothing at all of the individuals in those pictures. but when catholics are shown as fascist sympathisers, it's not typical.
Farewell Marina Ginesta
Militia woman: image 23 of 126
Marina Ginesta, died January 6th, 2014 in Paris, aged 94.
Marina Ginestà, aged 17, overlooking Barcelona from Hotel Colón. She worked as a translator for a Soviet journalist of Pravda during the Spanish Civil War. She was a member of Juventudes Socialistas Unificadas (Socialist Youth), the youth organization mainly directed by Partido Comunista de España (PCE, Communist Party of Spain). Despite her initial involvement she quickly grew disillusioned with the path that the Stalinists were taking. Marina remained a militant throughout the rest of the war and was drawn to other groups at that time such as the anti-Stalinist P.O.U.M (which George Orwell was a member of) and the Anarchist C.N.T. This photographs was taken by Juan Guzman (who was born Hans Gutmann in Germany before going to Spain where he photographed the International Brigades). Date of the photo: July 21, 1936.
i'm doing a phd on american
i'm doing a phd on american anarchists who went over to fight in spain and i'm curious about the last photo, the one of the black cnt militiaman - anyone have any idea who this was/who took the photo? i saw in the comments thread about the black lincoln brigader but can't find anything for the cnt soldier - was he an american too?
24 photos of women in the
24 photos of women in the civil war http://www.abc.es/fotos-archivo/20131204/mujeres-guerra-civil-1511557900534.html