Don't you hate it when you're into stuff and complete pieces of shit are into it too?
This is a just a rant about something that's bugged me recently - the appearance of openly neo-nazi bands using straightedge as part of the platform for their poisonous message. I'd heard of boneheads aping straightedge in the last year or two - bands like Blue Eyed Devils and Total War had got discussed on a few punk and straightedge forums, universally the response was a big 'fuck off' to nazi bands aping straightedge.
Watching a repeat of National Geographic's 'American skinhead' documentary (filmed in 2007 I think) alerted me to a few more neo-nazi hardcore bands; Tear Down and Beyond Sacred - both fucking abysmally as shit musically as they are politically. The show primarily centred on a Pennsylvania neo-nazi group, Keystone United (formerly Keystone State Skinheads, I'll refer to them as KSS still). The group's leader, Keith Carney, presents himself as a clean-cut, teetotal conscientious political activist, and has been pictured in a 'kill your local drug dealer' shirt - even picks up litter like a good little boy.
While straightedge bands have often had some pretty shit politics, they almost universally been anti-racist, and I remember in my late teens when I had started to check out the older 'classic' straightedge bands such as Minor Threat, and later 'youth-crew' bands like Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits, part of the appeal was the strong anti-racist message that came across.
Some late-80s straightedge kids had even organised to fight the rise of neo-nazis at hc/punk shows - FSU in Boston became famous for their physical confrontations with neo-nazis, but eventually descended into the mobbish gangsterism many anti-fascists affiliated with anarchism have been accused of.
The documentary reveals that Carney has spent time in prison for racist assaults and last year was on trial with fellow neo-nazis over another racist assault. In other segments he tells people that if they support homosexuality or immigration then 'they should be afraid' because KSS wants to put an end to that.
KSS were involved in counter-protests at rallies in support of Mumia Abu Jamal, and called for Mumia to be 'put to death now' and that he should 'fry'. This prompted anti-racists to expose their activity at the rally. KSS had also been distributing flyers scape-goating minority communities for various murders.
A segment has Carney and his crew of Neanderthals distributing a flyer outside a baseball game - the flyer (not available on KSS site though) was an 'American Jobs for American Workers' flyer - not a kick in the arse off the flyers being distributed in the initial phase of this year's Lindsey Oil Refinery strikes.
A portion of the documentary shows a bunch of boneheads and associates, including Carney training 'MMA' at their own specialised neo-nazi gym, complete with swastikas and assorted fascist paraphernalia on the walls. The 'trainer', Jason Tankersley (Maryland Skins), speaks about discipline and appears to be attempting to distance himself and his associates from the traditional image of the drunken nazi skinhead mob - he's grown his hair out, eschews drugs, and has gone as far as to organise a booze-free St Patrick’s Day celebration (more on this idiocy in a bit). A little googling shows him as a typical bonehead, bomber-jacket wearing, swazi-flag-weilding bonehead.
I found out through another Libcom poster, that there was a reasonably high-profile pro-MMA fighter who was openly sporting a swastika tattoo and calling himself a 'white nationalist', Melvin Costa. The possibility of anarchist MMA fighter Jeff Monson going toe-to-toe to him was raised here, and while it'd be amazing to see Monson rip his head off, the huge weight discrepancy means it'll probably never happen (Costa's 205lb, Monson's about 50lb heavier!).
When I've heard about white-power twats training MMA I've often wondered where the hell they're allowed to train - I doubt racism would be tolerated in most gyms, and certainly any I've ever trained at have been pretty diverse in terms of make-up (black, white, asian, eastern european), even in Ireland. I'd like to think any gym I know would tell twats with swastika tattoos to go fuck themselves. I've seen the topic of whether openly neo-nazi fighters should be on MMA fightcards and it brought me to this article about one of Tankersley's fighters (Doug Sonier) getting his ass handed to him. In the run up to the fight detailed, people had been cheering his opponent to end it quickly, and he duly did, putting the neo-nazi twat out in the first round - here he is having a little cry.
Lastly, that booze-free St Patrick’s Day celebration that Tankersley had organised. The footage of it's pretty hilarious. Picture a fat nazi skin, playing acoustic guitar and putting on a faux-Irish accent, singing 'The Wild Rover', in a room with a 'no booze allowed' notice. The re-branding of white-power as 'european heritage' is laughable in its stupidity. 'Tankersley' isn't even an Irish name, you stupid twat.
So yeah, basically just pissed that fucking twats are aping shit that I generally found to be positive and free of this racist shit. I wanna quote one of my favourite Gorilla Biscuits songs "Degradation":
Tell me who's pure. Tell me who's right.
Tell me the last time you fought a fair fight.
A loser's way to find some friends,
you look like a skin but that's where it ends.
True, they're always at our shows,
It doesn't mean we fit in with their hatred and racism shit.
They ruin our name, you know what I mean.
Racial supremacists degrade our scene.
-
You know you can kiss my ass before I read your zine.
There's no good side to this white power scene.
Kids beat down for standing up.
Your turn will come because we've all had enough.
You look like kids we know. You're not welcome here.
You don't like music and we don't like fear.
I guess it's your right to be proud that your white.
Are you here for music or just to pick fights.
-
Don't fool yourself cause you don't fool me.
It's not just blacks you hate, it's everyone you see.
Rich, poor, young, and old, whoever's in your way.
What a boring life, hating every day.
-
YOU'VE GOT NOTHING BUT HATRED!
Note: no fascist sites are linked to in this post
Comments
Choccy wrote: you look like a
Choccy
this is me and jack right now :(
I wonder how they will defend
I wonder how they will defend themselves on the street against Kenneth and me with sub machine guns :haddock:
oh shit, has sickdog BEEN TO
oh shit, has sickdog BEEN TO THE GUN SHOW?!1!??
Jack, JoeK - what have youse done?
Choccy wrote: FSU in Boston
Choccy
wikipedia
:eek:
i suspect that bit is
i suspect that bit is bullshit
Armchair Anarchist
Armchair Anarchist
wasn't that a video game?
radicalgraffitti
radicalgraffitti
I think it was the Bible. :eek:
revol68
True, straightedge is pretty wank. Can anyone show me an example of fascists infiltrating subcultures based around taking MDMA and hugging a lot?
revol68 wrote: also Gorilla
revol68
you sir are an idiot. Start Today is one of the best albums of all time. (though I agree, new GB pretty much suxors).
take no notice, he literally
take no notice, he literally knows absolutely nothing about music
I think he's probably the only person I know that genuinely does not actually like music, it's bizarre.
I've met Feeder and RedHotChiliPepper fans who like and know more about music than him.
I like two Duffy songs, one
I like two Duffy songs, one of which is in the 'top ten songs ever written'
really? on what basis do you
really?
on what basis do you consider that a factual statement?
walk into my room now and
walk into my room now and find a Coldplay record/CD or a Kooks one - go, do it, you can't because there aren't any
Choccy wrote: walk into my
Choccy
Only cos u got them all on your secret mp3 player. Hidden in one of your kropotkin books.
Farce wrote: True,
Farce
An AF comrade from Madrid told us about Spanish fascists taking E and going to raves, with the older fascists complaining "We didn't kill reds so you could go around popping pills"...
The company you
The company you keep.
jef costello wrote: The
jef costello
What mind blowing stupidity
888 wrote: jef costello
[quote=888]jef costello
Yeah did you read what I
Yeah did you read what I wrote about FSU?
I don't think exchanging dogs
I don't think exchanging dogs for guns is mobbish gangsterism, just stupidity beyond belief.
Isn't that baffling that neo-Nazis are attracted to straight edge really, what with it being totalitarian at times and that's not just Vegan Reich I'm talking about.
Let 'em have it; least I'd never have to listen to another song explaining why straight edge kids can't be friends with those who aren't or who've broken.
In Russia both Nazi
In Russia both Nazi "hardline" straightedge and Nazi MMA are significant. Borovikov gang, who killed few dozen people around St. Petersburg considered themselves sxe. In MMA, another one of the Emelianenkos (the worse one, not the good one) is a Nazi.
In general I'm fine with Nazi hardcore and straightedge spreading in Russia. Russian National Unity in its heyday used to have hundreds of thousands of supporters. Nazi hardline straightedge will never have more than few hundred, they will always be marginal shit. Nice that Nazis are falling to subcultural trap, organising concerts instead of a social movement.
jef costello wrote: The
jef costello
You are shitting me!!!
Yeah Elgin seemed pretty
Yeah Elgin seemed pretty nuts, he'sbeen on docs about straightedge and FSU, i think there was a National Geographic one a few yrs back.
I agree with molly0000000s.
I agree with molly0000000s. This is not at all baffling.
Remember the lyrics of Earth Crisis' song "Firestorm"?
The purity politics and the total war thing runs well with fascist ideology, don't you think? The clean body, the innocent victim, the male brotherhood, the violent gestures, the vangardism, the purification metaphors. And the hyper-masculine, white, heterosexual dominance within the scene.
I think there are also distinctions and conflicts within the scene but some sections of the straight edge scene have clear fascist tendencies. No doubt.
Actually i don't know whether
Actually i don't know whether people are being deliberately thick or not, but I don't see anywhere in my opening rant where I said I didn't understand how people could be into MMA and straightedge and also nazi shit, just that it fucked me off. I hate when dickheads are into the same shit as me ;) Of course you can be a nazi and be into the puritan thing, but straightedge from the beginning tended to be associated with the more 'astute' section of punk and was vehemently anti-racist from it's inception generally. And MMA, while full of patriotic meathead shit, has never had a problem with racism, and most gyms would tell neo-nazis to get the fuck out of their gyms.
To be honest most people who drink and do drugs should be rounded up and shot, Earth Crisis were right about that.
And that last retard comment about lots of straightedge kids being facsists is pretty much some of the most misinformed shit ever. I've hung about the straightedge scene for the last 10yrs, and while it's politics are for the most part complete shit, they certainlyaren't fascists, if anything anti-fascism is a default easy politic thing for them in the same way it is for many otherwise a-political punks.
Not really, if you knew
Not really, if you knew anything about the history of straightedge, which it's clear you don't, it was merely a commonsense reaction to the total nihilism and self-destruction, and the a-political dearth, that was much of the US punk scene in the early 80s, where kids were literally just completely fucking themselves up and barely able to stand let alone rebel against the 'system' they claimed to despise and seek to abolish.
Earth Crisis was the 90s mate, sxe had a history before that, but you literally know fuck all about it.
revol68 wrote: That song
revol68
By 'proto fascist' I assume you mean 'one of the best lyrics ever written'
oh yeah, Earth Crisis did
oh yeah, Earth Crisis did have appalling politics, I'm not denying that, I'm not sure what your point is. that's not what this conversation was about, nor my previous point. Earth Crisis had som rediculous lyrics, most of the straightedge scene despised them.
My point was that your equating sxe with 90s bands like Earth Crisis shows an embarrassingly misinformed view of what sxe was, the 80s band didn't necessarily have much better politics, but the 'proto fascism' you're on about was almost wholely absent so you're pretty much advancing a canard when you bring up Earth Crisis.
You literally don'tknow what you're talling about when you start on straightedge history - Earth Crisis got a ton of shit from most sxe kids for the entire duration of their career, and most even denied they were in any way a hardcore band.
Revol68 hit the nail on the
Revol68 hit the nail on the head!:
The anti-racism politics of the straight edgers that I knew for about 10 years was extremely shallow or non-existent. They played Skrewdriver records, and made regular racist, sexist, and antisemitic jokes. The men dominated the social scene, also employing violence against women in the group. What was their anti-racism? I honestly don´t know. I think it was a way of distinguishing themselves from the dominant figure of the racist, whether the poor and ignorant confederate-flag waving white southerner, or the cult-like neo-Nazis. The straight edgers sought a clean, conformist, middle-class identity and existence and this was seen in their choice of friends, clothing, films, relationships, etc. They couldn´t win the popularity contest at school, and sought dominance in the alternative scene. They were viciously anti-Punk, anti-feminist, and anti-political.
As I said in the earlier post, there are different tendencies in the straight edge scene for sure. I am speaking of my own experiences and those of others who have had similar ones.
But Choccy´s comment that "most people who drink and do drugs should be rounded up and shot" only confirms the proto-fascist element within this scene.
schalomlibertad
schalomlibertad
Well the majority of sxe'ers I've met in my 10yrs of on and off activity within that scene were painfully earnest and PC, falling over themslves to be feminists and heavily involved in their local punk scenes, even though punk was a load of a-political shite.
well, yeah, much like anarchism, and the fact was that the types of ballbags you identified above would pretyy much have been disowned amongst most traditional straightedge scenes
Even the most fascistic of sxe sub-currents, hardline, was vehemently 'anti-fascist' (ironicially) and feminist.
fucking hilarious mate
why are you so thick?
[quote=ChoccyWell the
[quote=ChoccyWell the majority of sxe'ers I've met in my 10yrs of on and off activity within that scene were painfully earnest and PC, falling over themslves to be feminists and heavily involved in their local punk scenes, even though punk was a load of a-political shite.
[/quote]
It's like that in my town too, the straight edgers tend to be the most liberal/earnest/pc hardcore fans.
Can someone please explain the proto-fascist underpinnings of veganism, I'm bored and would find it entertaining.
Also, many of the spanish anarchists were quite puritan in regards to sex and alchohol, I guess that's why they let Franco win, cos of their subconscious fascist sympathies.
revol68 wrote: Hardline can
revol68
oh yeah so you ignored the bit where I acknowledge hardline is actually fascistic and where I said it was ironic that they claimed to be anti-fascism (precisely becasue they do reduce it to anti-nazi type stuff), nice one
prude and proud
You mean I'm disciplined,
You mean I'm disciplined, look after myself and am not an irresponsible dick?
It's also what makes me a decent anarchist and you the shittest most useless person ever ;)
Imagine how different history
Imagine how different history would've been if the US had less idiotic drinking laws, so under-21s could go to gigs in bars and straightedge would've died at birth.
Choccy
Citation needed. I've never had much contact with hardline, but my impression was definitely that it was pretty openly misogynistic.
Well they were totally
Well they were totally anti-abortron weren't they?
Yeah but they often
Yeah but they often overlapped with mental 'deep ecology' shit and preached feminist principles while still being pro-life. Of course they were full of shit.
If you're looking a citation, Purification, one of the best known euro hardline bands, from Italy, always had links to shit like 'feminists 4 life' on their site, who were, apparently, pro-life feminists.
It's all mental shit really.
Earth Crisis, while not classically hardline, or properly pro-life, had this contradiction too. Only in one song, on their first 7" was their a mention of pro-life, and it was hidden in a single line of a song not written by any of their members, and subsequently heavily qualified by Karl saying he actually thought abortion should remain legal. Whereas they'd later preach apparent feminist credentials in liner notes to Gomorrah's Season Ends and it's opening track was about domestic violence.
This particular current or straightedge, which i hasten to add was not even acknowledge as hardcore and criticised by most other sxers at the time, was deeply confused for the most part.