Why is the EDL like a hedgehog? Because although they’re small they’re still a pest and full of pricks.
The EDL have been busy again over the last week or so, what with pelting a handful of Muslims Against Crusades with sausages in Barking, then being escorted out of Whitechapel for their own safety later that day, holding a badly attended rally in Kilmarnock on Saturday and finally being confronted by mass opposition in the East End on Sunday. Meanwhile, the BNP, following the appalling election results, is now facing a semi-serious leadership challenge from Eddie Butler which is gaining a small head of steam. The pro-Griffinite machine is attempting to smear Butler as either gay and/or a frequenter of Belgian brothels. Butler has released a statement containing his ambitions and a list of what is wrong with the party, most notably the financial irregularities, Griffin’s weak point. Cambridge BNP is organising a meeting this week claiming that the BNP is finished. All of which, combined with the fallout of the EHRC case, the changing in rules on membership and general malaise is benefitting the EDL. Never a dull moment eh? However, the EDL represent a ‘different’ kind of racism than the BNP.
Different Racism
Although the EDL have BNP members in their ranks, many EDL have a low opinion of the BNP which is seen as too inactive on the streets and not particularly relevant or useful. The EDL try to be different and trumpet their ‘many’ Sikh and black members but really they amount to very few. Although the ‘leadership’ like to flag this aspect many of the supporters dislike the Sikh feller and the Joel Titus golliwog Facebook incident demonstrates the Neanderthal BNP politics of some of the membership. The EDL draws mainly on football crews and offers the potential of a brawl and a beer without the drastic repercussions of anti-hooligan legislation and heavy sentencing. And it is important to understand this football mentality in order to see where the EDL’s appeal lies.
The modus operandi of the EDL is to take liberties. For football firms, to forcibly occupy an opponents’ end, over-run or destroy their local boozer or take over their manor for a night is a ‘liberty.’ It is a simplistic territorial achievement. And this is similar to what is going on with the EDL. They choose places likely to cause a reaction - Birmingham, Bolton, East London - and being kettled into a local boozer by the cops for a while winding up the locals is deemed as successfully ‘taking a liberty.’
Football teams have often featured visible and vocal support from local black communities such as in Manchester, London or Birmingham and despite the presence of the racist element some black firms have flourished. At Manchester City in the 70s and 80s the NF dominated firm co-existed with the mainly black Kool Kats with any differences being put aside for the team. The Birmingham Zulus gained considerable respect on the terraces and Cass Pennant was one of West Ham’s ICF. There are other examples. Football firms and the EDL represent a spectrum of views: there are some who refuse to applaud a goal by a black player, others who have respect for the black hooligans’ prowess on the terraces and others who have black mates or are not bothered either way. For many supporters, the strong presence of successful black players who have helped take their sides to victory has changed their attitudes. The influence of pop culture has also played its part. The Black community has physically confronted violent racism in the 1950s in Notting Hill and Nottingham, at Lewisham in the 1970s and police racism was one of the causes behind the riots in the 1980s. They have never been seen as an ‘easy target.’ Many casual racists see the black community as ‘alright.’
However, many firm members still harbour resentment against the Asian community and this is well documented in hooligan literature which tends to downplay the outright criminal and fascist elements. They see everyone, whether from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or India as a ‘Paki.’ They see the local Asian community as isolationist and, despite enjoying a tasty tandoori, see them as an easy target. For the EDL, all Muslims are extremists and privately support terrorism. Which is as simplified as their view of the opposition to their fascist tactics. They naively think that Antifa, local Asian youth and the UAF are all the same and that militant anti-fascists are ‘protecting’ Islam. It is obvious from this week at Whitechapel that local Asian youths are more than capable of looking after themselves. Militant antifascists are there to confront pissed up racist street gangs in their local communities not to attend mosques. The EDL also like to portray antifascists as ‘soft middle class students’: they clearly have not attended a university in the recent years and do not understand the diverse nature of the opposition.
Indymedia Conference
Despite continuing with their absurd claims to be ‘peacefully protesting’ the EDL’s forum contains threads praising violence such as the thread on the Indymedia Conference this Wednesday calling for local members to turn up, sabotage or disrupt the meeting. This could be annoying but we will be well organised to rebuff any serious threat from them. Also, if EDL members hate Indymedia so much, why do they spend so long reading it and posting their ridiculous remarks here? (see below!)
‘Malatesta’
NB: all material by ‘Malatesta’ is copyright free.
Please pass it on to anyone who may find it useful.
Comments
Quote: holding a badly
Is the SDL not basically a bunch of Rangers fans?
I would say that this is a
I would say that this is a misdiagnosis of the EDL in many ways.
EDL is not comprised of football hooligans, it's much more diverse than that, consisting of football fans, but also some who run small businesses, some like myself are OAPs, there are some that I would call thinkers and some who are doers, there are women members and also solders, ex solders.
There are many who support the EDL but you never see them on protests because some are over seas or have work that means they can't attend a protest for fear of losing their jobs. So you never see the full diversity on a protest.
You should also see that EDL is not run centrally, each area has a division, plus there are independent divisions, like the Jewish and LGBT division not forgetting the Sikh division, which has more supporters than you think, they don't always attend protest.
The so called BNP connection, there is no connection, sure some support the BNP as voters but the same could be said for Labour, UKIP, Tories and how people vote is no concern of EDL because they don't have any allegiance to any political party, a large number of EDL don't vote at all.
So because you may discover some BNP supporters does not mean that there is any link just as there is no link to the Tories etc, I would say that mostly there is little support for any politicians.
Racism, there is no doubt we have a few but they are not in the majority, far from it and on the Official zeta board forum they are thrown off, there are other groups on face book and twitter and most are unofficial so we have no control over what is said on them.
EDL are well aware that there are different Asian groups, we are not interested at all in Asians but Islamofascism, so no not all Asians are Pakistanis.
Where would you expect EDL to protest, it is bound to be in an area where there are Islamists, which is where muslims are to be found but many demos have been in city centres and some have been against Choudary little gang.
You intimate that EDL march for confrontation but if EDL was only looking for confrontation then they would have gone ahead with the White Chapel protest outside the Troxy, which would have been quite silly outside an empty hall, instead a small number went to protest at the new venue at the Hilton.
To try and compare our movement to past groups just does not work because a great many of EDL are young, a completely different generation who don't remember those days and so bring with them the modern youngsters think, to them racism is old fashioned because they have spent their lives in a multi-ethnic society, went to mixed race schools, some are in mixed race relationships, they have been brought up in a society where Gays have equal rights, so most are ok with this, they see women as equals without a second thought, it's just the way things are to them. They are a reflection of this society.
Some of our supporters do and have been to university, some haven't being that part of the working class that have been ignored and never got the education they deserved. They had to go straight in work, some with jobs that paid a wage little different to slavery.
Most people that go to uni are in fact middle class, some pretend to be working class, to suggest that people who support the UAF,SWP, etc are working class has to be a joke.
Why shouldn't the EDL disrupt the indymedia conference, there is no intention of EDL to be violent only to defend themselves.
It's amazing to think that whilst Indymedia, UAF, SWP, anarchists etc all gang up on EDL, attack every single protest, have gangs roaming the streets before and after protests looking for lone EDL so that they can give them a kicking and then complain that your meetings are some how sacrosanct because what! you're the goodies!
You mince your words, what you really mean is that if EDL disrupt your conference you will attack them.
As for reading indymedia, it reminds us of what the opposition is all about and how long and difficult this battle will be.
We see closed minds, rejoicing in how closed they are, locked in an Ideological box, outside of which they can't go, don't dare go, Islamofascists are locked in a similar box.
Arthur.
Quote: I would say that this
You forgot to add that you guys are nationalists. Arthur you seem to single handedly go around forums on the net and defend the EDL. It's a shame to see so much effort wasted on dead end politics. You also talk about how some of your supporters have had to go straight into jobs which pay the bare minimum. So the EDL's response is to take the old far right slogan of Unions are bad and reds. Slagging off the RMT etc. If those workers go on strike would you's support them or call them lefties? Us anarchists have criticism's of trade unions for different reasons i.e- they don't go far another to empower the working class. Anyway Arthur take a long hard look at your organisation, most of the folk on it are there for a fight and to beat some 'pakis' heads in.
You also make it dangerous for white people living in asian areas, as after an EDL demo they may be singled out by asians, racist asians and others as a member of the EDL and may get a kicking, stabbed maybe even death for nothing. All you guys seem to be doing is trying to instigate a race riot and divide the working class (something which has been a state policy for a long time with regards to multiculturism.) So the accusations that you a state creation may be conspiracy theoryish or could have an element of truth behind them. We are against islamic fundamentalists aswell, but our tactics are different and we don't attract fascists who want to attack all muslims. I would like you to respond to my comments and questions or perhaps they are too difficult for you to answer.
Arthur says that "we are not
Arthur says that "we are not interested at all in Asians but Islamofascism so not all Asians are Pakistanis". Aside from the fact "Islamofascism" is a totally inadequate description of the phenomena, Arthur shows that the real target is Pakistanis. This is the racist nationalism of the EDL.
Are we nationalists, we are
Are we nationalists, we are loyal to England more or less as it is now, we want to retain the freedoms that we have now, one law for all, equality, no discrimination regardless of sex, creed or colour, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom from religion and yes Brits, that is people born here, should get first choice of jobs, housing and help from the state.
We realise that the country we defend is not perfect, how can it be with big business having no loyalty to the country it operates in, with the banks thinking that they can fuck us over time and time again and politicians running scared of them. No, England is far from perfect but we feel it is our England and we love her despite any faults and we see our country being sold down the river in many many ways and one of the biggest sellouts is to the Islamofascists.
We watched the previous government take us to war and at the same time despising our armed forces, letting them die because of lack of equipment and then having risked their lives, to return to the jeers of the likes of Choudary. Of solders being refused service in supermarkets by burka clad nobodies who have never done a single thing for their country. Of people protesting because limb-less solders are using the local swimming pool.
Most of these solders are working class lads and they feel bloody betrayed. The streets of our city are full of homeless ex service men, traumatised by war sleeping in cardboard boxes, invisible, to the people they fought to defend, hospitals refusing to deal with sick and maimed solders because it might offend some Islamic nobody.
You ask about the unions, what have the unions ever done for us, do they strike or campaign for a better deal for OAPs, or to make sink estates better places to live, has one single union ever come out on strike about our solders getting a better deal, no, these days they only ever strike for selfish reasons.
Some, a minority, are with the EDL for the reasons you state but the majority are not, we just want to be heard because we have been ignored for far to long and we have had enough of our opinions being ignored and of being insulted for them, bigot, little Englander, racist, nazi etc etc.
To say that EDL have made it unsafe for white people, let's take Tower Hamlets as an example.
EDL protested against the the Islamists having a conference at the Troxy, we wrote to the venue and to the local council, advising them that if this conference was not cancelled then they could expect some 3000 EDL turning up on their doorstep to stop it going ahead.
The conference was cancelled and EDL called it off. At great expense I might add, supporters had booked hotels, train tickets etc etc.
What happened next was the disgraceful behaviour of the SWP and the UAF, they started rumours, EDL were going to attack the east London mosque, that two EDL had raped a muslim woman, that a muslim women had her Hijab ripped off, that EDL had beaten up a lone muslim man, that the EDL were the BNP and we were coming to Tower Hamlets for a war against Asians.
Where were the EDL during all of this, a handful were opposing MAC near Downing street and another handfull were at the Marble Arch Hilton hotel because it was the new venue for the conference, nowhere near Tower Hamlets.
Now this is an example of the stirring things up,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvalbVCsScc&feature=player_embedded
Much of the stirring was not videod but it is this that made things dangerous for white people, even UAF were attacked by their muslim friends.
EDL have an absolute right to protest, regardless of who it offends and if some EDL supporters break the law then let the police and the courts deal with them and muslims have no right to rampage through the streets attacking people, no matter what the provocation, the rule of law must prevail.
The right of peaceful protest is the one of the bedrock's of our democracy and if others don't like a protest then they can themselves protest, there is no right to riot.
Arthur.
Baboon I'm puzzled, why is
Baboon I'm puzzled, why is Islamofascist inadequate.
Islam is not a race and not all Pakistanis are muslim and not all muslims are Pakistani, Chinese, Arabs, Indians, Europeans, Africans, are muslims, so how does it come down to Pakistanis, there are white English muslims, there was one at the MAC demo, EDL are against the radicals of that faith, some of whom may be of Pakistani origin.
It can only make sense if you are trying to bring race into the debate, Racism is difficult because it's difficult to prove you are not, especially on the net and the debate goes round in circles.
If you could drop all the isms that you attach to EDL then what would you find, you'd find that we are against extreme Islam and sharia law. Which is a good cause. But you need to muddy the waters because you think EDL are far right and if they are far right then you have permission to call them racist,nazi etc etc.
So why would to label us so, perhaps you feel a bit guilty because anarchist and the left allowed this to happen and did nothing, watched this growing threat but were frightened in case they offended the politically correct and were labelled racist. A deadly word that can finish people.
On your side of the fence you have a kind of thought police, Last week indymedia blanked out an article by some one, that altho extremely critical of the EDL, said that he didn't think the majority of EDL were racist, it's non negotiable and you have forced this on yourselves, EDL=racism, after that nothing that EDL can say has any meaning.
Arthur.
jimmer, I've not seen any
Tommy Ascaso, I've not seen any demos by anarchists against the Islamist, I'm not saying there hasn't been but I have never seen any mention of anarchist fighting the Islamist.
It has always seemed to be the opposite.
Arthur.
Arthur, you won't have seen
Arthur, you won't have seen demos organised by anarchists against Islamism because, as Tommy Ascaso says, they're insignificant and the government is in no way whatsoever supporting them.
In what way has it seemed to be the opposite? Anarchists are not the UAF, and oppose their tactis and their politics.
Arthur goes beyond parody
Arthur goes beyond parody saying that I'm trying to bring racism into the debate: "muslims rampaging through the streets"; "we are not interested at all in Asians but Islamofascism, so no not all Asians are Pakistanis"; "burka-clad nobodies": "islamic nobodies" and your ideas of putting English-born people first. Also the holding onto "freedoms", equality, one law for all, no discrimination - all "freedoms" which only exist in your own head.
Your racist filth flows naturally from your little-englander defence of nationalism - it goes with the territory if you like. Your pathetic examples of limbless soldiers being refused hospital treatment are indicative of your defence of imperialist war carried out by this nation state.
Islamofascism doesn't describe the phenomena because it's much more complicated than that. It's not fascism in any way but mainly arisen from various developments of imperialism in which Britain (England) has played a major part.
I've nothing to feel guilty about. My position, however badly I express it, is for the defence of the working class and its unity across the sort of racist divide that you advocate. We're on different sides of a class line Arthur and you're just the mirror image of the trotskyists.
Quote: You ask about the
Selfish reasons? Attacks on the working classes pay and conditions? You show your true colours with this little statement. Youse are supporters of the priviledged and ultimately the state.
Anarchists have allready been called islamophobes by the UAF and their supporters by condeming the islamic fundamentalists in east london such as the IFE but the people who call us this are enemys of the working class. The difference between us and your group is we go about tackling extremism in a different way. We want a class war not a race war as some put it. We don't tolerate nationalist(perhaps we have in the past) and racists in our midst. Arthur I am starting to think that some of your organisation is in the pay of the state. You or someone with your username spends hours on different forums on the net defending the EDL from accusation of racism. True your leadership are not nazis but they are anti working class and so a threat to the working class.
I agree most of the left and the liberals have not condemned islamic extremism and religion enough when it rears its ugly head and have actively pushed for a multicultural britain, which neglects some of the most vulnerable members of british society (muslim women and gay muslims etc to name a few) so that the so called 'muslim community' speaks on behalf of them. But we are not on the left we are ultra left if you like. The UAF like yourself end up supporting the state. We want to abolish it.
Arthur wrote: one law for
Arthur
Why this asshole is not banned yet is truly beyond me. Libcom admins will go to great pains to explain why posting a link to the CPGB site is considered spamming and grounds for banning, but openly espousing racism is apparently perfectly fine. What the fuck, seriously, this is disturbing.
Quote: Why this asshole is
I think some folks here think we can 'convert' him or make him see sense. It's not gonna happen. Arthur is a little englander and he don't want to change.
I don't espouse racism openly
I don't espouse racism openly or other wise and maybe you all try and read between lines that don't exist.
Yes I heard that anarchist were shouted down by the UAF and perhaps that might give you an idea of how we feel about all this name calling.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/anarchists-versus-edluaf/
They are in the first stages of demonising anarchists, how will you all cope with that, You lot know that you aren't fascist but prove you are not to the UAF.
Yes, I always post as Arthur and I do defend the EDL around the net and no I'm not in the pay of the government, I'm retired and can afford to give my time.
EDL are a threat to the working classes, I fail to see how this is so because many of EDL are the working classes. How can we be a threat to ourselves?
We do not want any war, not a race war or a class war, we want rid of radical Islam and it's preachers of hate. Not muslims. It really is as straight forward and as simple as that. We want the injustice of shari'ah courts stopped, preachers of hate banned. Faith schools, uni's and Mosques monitored. To stop the Saudi government funding so called super mosques and Islamic villages.
All the other things that the left label us with is just a figment of their imagination and in the dissident radio discussion, some anarchist were disappointed that EDL didn't show up, is that not muddled thinking, there would have been a lot of trouble and confrontation, which EDL does NOT want and which the UAF and those that support them, did.
Do you not think that this is worrying? I do.
EDL are defending what we've got, we are in the present, anarchists fight for an Ideal future. both of which would be taken from us by the Islamists.
Arthur.
Quote: EDL are a threat to
Because you defend capitalist politics.
In fact, most workers, most of the time, accept the general framework of capitalism and thus act against their own interests. They accept the ideologies which justify that state of affairs - nationalism, democracy, etc. Generally, however, this is a passive, rather than active engagement.
Your organisation, on the other hand, is actively engaged in propagating capitalist ideology in the working class. You promote nationalism, which is diametrically opposed to the need for workers of all countries to unite together against the capitalists, etc. You represent an effort to destroy any chance of the working class ever becoming aware of its own interests - to be honest whether you're a genuine believer or an MI5 plant makes no difference, the end-result is the same.
In this sense, you're the instrument of the same ruling class that pumps out nationalist and racist propaganda at every opportunity - barely a day goes by without the Mail or the Express leading on some crap about "immigrants". The same capitalists that are flogging thousands of silly flags so English workers can cheer on a football team composed of millionaires and run by millionaires.
You don't represent any kind of challenge to their system - you function as an extension of it.
Arthur - fuck you. Quote:
Arthur - fuck you.
Yes, and you should be banned from this site as soon as possible.
See:
And, not necessarily nationalist but probably veiled racist and certainly unacceptable -
Arthur wrote: Are we
Arthur
So no discrimination ... except discrimination against immigrants. Also you're transparently a hypocrite if you want "one law for all" but want "hate preachers" banned. The EDL have an "absolute right to freedom of speech" but your counterparts on the Muslim far right don't?
If the EDL gave two shits about anything other than thinly-vieled racist scapegoating, then they wouldn't continue pitch up at towns and cities whose only noteworthy feature is having large Asian minorities to antagonise. Towns such as Bolton, whose 'Muslim community' is only really noticeable for producing high-quality boxers.
Quote: If the EDL gave two
Yeah, exactly this. Arthur, do you mind telling us what the EDL's information was that made them think that Harrow was a hub for radical Islam (and thus worthy of a protest)? If it's only radical Islam you're opposing (rather than just Muslims in general) then why go to Harrow? I'm only a couple of stops on the tube from there and I wouldn't exactly say the Muslims there seemed very 'radical'..
And like Tommy Ascaso says, though we're opposed to Islamic fundamentalism, we don't spend much time on it coz, well, radical Islam isn't highest on my list of priorities. I don't know if you've heard, but there's a recession on and we might be seeing a few cuts here or there.. as someone said before, English people are far more likely to die because of an underfunded NHS or an accident at work than an attack by Muslim terrorists. So that's why we concentrate our efforts on that, rather than protesting a conference of marginal lunatics about setting up a caliphate in Chichester..
Do you want to explain why radical Islam is top of your priorities? And then maybe follow it up with why when you protest against radical Islam, you just go somewhere that there are a lot of Muslims, radical or otherwise..