Fascists launch failed attack on a Liverpool picket line

'work-shy cunts' is a good one.

Another bad day out for the racist scumbags :) :pb:

Them EDlers look like a right bunch of boswells... "in bred" ... geddit :D

gypsy

'work-shy cunts' is a good one.

why weren't they at work?!

Steven.

gypsy

'work-shy cunts' is a good one.

why weren't they at work?!

Cos racist pieces of shit are effectively unemployable yeah :p :pb:

Diddy-D

Cos racist pieces of shit are effectively unemployable yeah :p :pb:

Using words like "unemployable" as a perjorative contributes to the stigmatisation of unemployed workers, even when it is directed at racist, scabby pricks like the EDL/NWI/CXF/Whatever they're calling themselves this week.

madashell

Diddy-D

Cos racist pieces of shit are effectively unemployable yeah :p :pb:

Using words like "unemployable" as a perjorative contributes to the stigmatisation of unemployed workers, even when it is directed at racist, scabby pricks like the EDL/NWI/CXF/Whatever they're calling themselves this week.

Point taken.

I know a lot about stigmatization, especially that around disability and mental illness. I have posted quite abrasively elsewhere on these boards, about those who work in the 'caring' professions of the NHS and the Social Services. I have been subjected to appalling treatment by some of them.

Were my criticisms a little too harsh for ya then lol

I see you work as a 'Support Worker' in the 'public and third sector'.

I hope you are able to pull some of your colleagues, in the same way you have pulled me :D

I might add, had this criticism come from someone in a different line of work, I would have happily left the comment at 'point taken'.

But given the number of complaints I have submitted against NHS and Social Services staff, after the appalling treatment I've received, just to have them turn round and misrepresent the situation to cover their own backs. And the abuse I've witnessed on the wards in hospital, on numerous occasions. And the experiences my friends have related to me also, well...

Put it this way: the day I will be spoken down to, by some patronizing wanker in this line of work, will be the fucking day.

Take it. Or leave it :pb:

Double post.

I work with adults with profound learning disabilities. My job mostly consists of providing personal care and arranging activities. I'm honestly quite perplexed as to what your problem is with that is.

Edit: Incidentally, I never saw your posts about the NHS until just now when I looked them up. It's hardly my fault if you were treated badly on two occaisions by people doing a completely different job to me in a different town.

You've misdirected your anger at anyone who comes under the label 'support worker' which is pretty shit to be honest and the wording of your other comment was crap, MAS was right to pick you up on that.

It seems they had a shit day..all five of them, how pathetic have you got to get to be noticed, perhaps they should try and get an audition as the 'patriotic front' singing the national anthem on the X factor.

@ communal_pie and madashell

Let's bring this debate into the real world.

I have received a message from someone who reads this forum, but doesn't post, cos, and I quote, "some of the behaviour on here is disgusting". And I am in touch with a local anarchist who calls you 'elitest tossers'.

And to think I was seeking to join the local anarchist group. A group in a large city, which is so successful, it has only 10 members on the books, most of whom do not even turn up to meetings.

Just one of the (actual, not a cyber) forums of mental health rights activists I attend, has a regular attendance of over 40 people. They are not anarchists. But given the issues around 'austerity' measures, and the 'reassessments' of social security benefits, there is massive scope for direct action and campaigning.

I am no longer seeking membership of the local anarchist group. I am convinced more than ever, of the need for separate organization of people with disabilities, to mount their own defence and organize our own activities.

A group specifically for disabled anarchists may or may not arise out of this over time. But my network of militant activists is pretty strong, and a more general group of disabled activists certainly is.

Your loss. Not mine :) :pb:

scab activity. also liam pinkham who is associated with the scouse NF/infidels was 'grooming' a 14 year old a couple of years back. ironic given all their ptorests outside 'grooming' trials!
check out VNNuk for all the fruity details. on the
National Front at at the Liverpool mayoral election count
thread.

How ironic, calling others elitist tossers when in fact, you are the one using elitism against.. oh I don't know, the unemployable? Support workers? Weird if you ask me, really weird.

For your information, there are loads of disability groups and definitely, a hell of a lot of anarchists organising directly around disabled workers rights, you once again claim to be the victim of elitism and yet it is you who seems to believe you're in some exclusive and self-righteous club.

PS: Don't presume to know what other people are up to, when you post as an anonymous person on an internet forum

-

madashell

Edit: Incidentally, I never saw your posts about the NHS until just now when I looked them up. It's hardly my fault if you were treated badly on two occaisions by people doing a completely different job to me in a different town.

Fair enough. But those are only two occasions I have quoted. There are other examples I could go into. I have witnessed bad shit happen to other people. And I have had lots of my disabled peers, relate their own experiences as well. The problem is rather more entrenched that the fine state lackeys of the NHS and Social Services will ever acknowledge.

Also, I detect something fundamentally wrong with current anarchist organization in this country.

The anarchist methodology of revolutionary organizing, is inherently appealing to working-class people. No leadership, open discussion, joint planning, reaching a consensus, and if one cannot be reached, then it goes to a vote.

This cannot fail to appeal to working-class militants. Yet most are in Trotsyite groups, not anarchist ones. The top-down approach, with a party official speaking at the front, and comrades being in rows of seats behind, is rather like being in school. I was once very close to a Trot group, and attending their meets, so I know what it's like.

Why then, is anarchism so small? In all honesty, the campaign sub-group of one of the forums I attend in my own locality, is three times the size of the local anarchist group in a major city for fucks sake. My peers have taken direction action in the past, and no doubt will do so again. My peers are not anarchists. But they are working-class peeps under attack, who will roll their shirt sleeves up and get stuck in.

And then there is the general tone of the forum. It is regarded as elitist, and it does put people off. I can't help thinking that maybe this is quite deliberate.

I tend to take note of inverse relationships. The largest political group in the UK that is (very, very loosely) left-wing, is the Labour Party. Many working-class peeps still identify with it. And guess what? It's also the group the bourgeois fear the least.

Then we have anarchism, with its appealing methodology, and the form of organizing which is most likely to secure a successful workers democracy, in a post-insurrectionary society, cos the seeds have already been sown in the very nature of that way of organizing. It's surely something the bourgeois should fear the most. And it's also the fucking smallest.

There is something not right here :pb:

Libcom has its faults but people work hard to make this a place where debate can happen. Do you know of another place where communists can discuss the range of subjects you can here?
I can sympathize with you that sometimes the way debate happens can be hard and unpleasant and I find some of the regular posters here have a tendency to behave outrageously but in general the debate is constructive and I find it greatly informative.
Libcom is elitist in that it is for people who are serious about this shit- if people bring that to the forum people are welcome- if they are not they can piss off and think about it.
Personally I value the contributions that stretch my knowledge and challenge my thinking.
Now Madashell: You had no grounds to attack this comrade as you did. Do you really believe that anyone who works as a care assistant is a bastard?
This is just wrong and unless you know the comrade and his/her attitudes you should think harder before you label him/her. This was as bad and as insulting as any post I have seen on Lbcom. You were right out of order.
I too have mental health problems and found the NHS useless to me. I am bitter about a lot of my treatment by middle class patronizing scumbags in many aspects of my life but I am also indebted to to the descent good people I met along the way. A friend who does a similar job to Madashell puts in so much work for his clients and works so hard to lift the service provided by his co-workers and pressure the agency to improve the service further. I do not know Madashell but if you insulted my friends like you did him/her I would be very very angry.
The requirement for Libcom elitists is that you think. I am sorry if this is too much for you.

Diddy-D can you try and post in a contrsuctive way. Dismissing someone compleely based on what you imagine their job consists of is ridiculous (and it's not the first time you've done that)
YOu've come here looking for confirmation that you can't work with people without disabilities and you've managed to find it by insulting people and then claiming that their responses show thatn people with disabilities aren't welcome. Add in holding madashell responsible for the actions of the entire NHS and the failure of anarchism to appeal to working class people is a bit ridiculous.
And comparing an internet forum to a real-life anarchist organisation to show that they don't appeal to people, on an anarchist forum with thousands of members is quite amusing.

It's a shame that you choose this aggressive and unproductive manner of posting and interacting so often.

@ Tart. I'm sorry to hear about your mental health problems. This whole thing kicked off, cos I was pulled about using the term 'unemployable' in relation to racist scumbags. I am 'unemployable' myself (according to the bosses at any rate). It was careless terminology, and I should have left it at 'point taken'. But when I saw this was being said to by a support worker in the public and third sector, it just bought a lot of bad shit back, and I saw red. And I didn't call MAS a bastard, but a patronizing wanker. I have been spoken down to many times by such workers you see. And when you submit complaints, they all stick together, and the client is always wrong. But I was wrong to say this to MAS cos I don't know him or her, and I'm sure they are a decent person, and many peeps in NHS etc are. So to MAS, I APOLOGIZE.

@ jef. I didn't come here looking for confirmation I couldn't work with poeople other than those in disabled category. I came here believing it was possible to work with non-disabled comrades, and I'm sure in many regards, it is, on certain projects perhaps. However, I still now wish to organize separately. It is my choice to do so.

Separate organization exists anyway already. It's a reality. The service-user movement didn't just materialize out of thin air. Nor did groups like Mad Pride. They arose out of entrenched problems in the NHS and Social Services, and out of the experiences of the disabled in relation to the non-disabled.

As for your point about a forum of thousands...yes, I read the 5000 new posts daily, when I log on lol.

Regarding the point about the massive failure of anarchist organization. Though this was in a post reponding to MAS, I wasn't aiming that at MAS. It's a much wider issue, and it concerns me, for the reasons I point out in my earlier post. As a form of organizing to working-class militants, it should be somewhat appealing cos of its inherently democratic nature. And yet the group in a very, very large city, with a massive student and worker population, is like soooo fucking small. I find it very, very odd. Is the hand of the state at work here? I dunno...

And jef, I do post constructively quite a bit of the time, actually. What about my postings pertaining to the attack on teachers, for example? :pb:

Diddy, I appreciate the apology, I'm sorry if what I said came across as patronising, that wasn't my intention.

There's a worthwhile discussion to be had about the role of care workers as allies to disabled activists, if you feel like starting a thread elsewhere on libcom :)

madashell

Diddy, I appreciate the apology, I'm sorry if what I said came across as patronising, that wasn't my intention.

There's a worthwhile discussion to be had about the role of care workers as allies to disabled activists, if you feel like starting a thread elsewhere on libcom :)

Thanks, MAS :)

And yeah, I will start a thread :) :pb:

Diddy, i think you are confusing Libcom.org with the wider anarchist 'movement' in the U.K. Most people in SLSF don't use libcom, and I think this is true for most other anarchist organizations. one of the (many) reasons labour has more members than any anarchist organization is that their resources hugely outweigh ours millions of times over. The fact they have been at the head of government a few times probably helped spread their message a bit also ;-).

TBH I think bringing up Labour is a bit of a red herring....

In any case, their numbers are dwindling. They have like 100k members, their historic relationship with the unions is at breaking point etc, etc.

N.B. The thread is already hugely derailed, why stop now?

Arbeiten

Diddy, i think you are confusing Libcom.org with the wider anarchist 'movement' in the U.K. Most people in SLSF don't use libcom, and I think this is true for most other anarchist organizations. one of the (many) reasons labour has more members than any anarchist organization is that their resources hugely outweigh ours millions of times over. The fact they have been at the head of government a few times probably helped spread their message a bit also ;-).

TBH I think bringing up Labour is a bit of a red herring....

In any case, their numbers are dwindling. They have like 100k members, their historic relationship with the unions is at breaking point etc, etc.

N.B. The thread is already hugely derailed, why stop now?

Yeah, sorry to the OP for going off on one, and derailing the thread. And I see what you mean about Labour. I hope they collapse as soon as possible, and the unions abondon them. The sooner the reformists sink, who lead the workers down a blind alley and give false hope in bourgeois sham democracy, the better.

Anarchism is the better form, for organization for real change among the workers, cos it is inherently democratic, and sows the seeds for any fledgling post-insurrectionary claseless democracy, to have at least a fighting chance of survival :) :pb:

What is the salfa?

Hamada5150

What is the salfa?

Do you mean SLSF? It stands for South London Solidarity Federation, which is a local group of a national organisation.