Greek anarchists attack and destroy fascists’ offices

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

Yeah, maybe if we just project our love unto the fash they'll refrain from killing immigrants or anyone who isn't in accordance with their categorization of 'white.'

Yeah, the whole "ignoring the fascists till they go away" thing was tried. It failed.......BADLY. A better way of handling the fascists is to ruin their ability to gain power before they get it. Cheers to these guys for proper treatment of the fascist scum.

Agree with the two latter comments, as much as I would like to see pacifism to work the reality is that authoritarian statist racists like the Golden Dawn are people who, if in power, would have no problem stamping out all opposition, nonwhite/immigrants, etc. You can't compromise with fascists

I approve.

Yeah, assuming compassion in ideological, fully paid-up members of the fash is naive, beyond a certain point they're fair game.

i think you miss the whole point.. HATE IS THE ENEMY .. if you adopt and practice hate you are the enemy! it' doesn't matter who you aim your bigotry and hate at it's bigotry and hate..

by practising such acts you are not fighting fascism you are promoting it!

never a truer word ever said than the quote above by Martin Luther Hate cannot and never will drive out Hate...

When will you learn?

particular and rather sadly demonstrated by the tragic events in france today.. a violent act of hate against jews... people like you don't oppose but justify these people... you use the same tactics but arrogantly believe you are justified because your similarly believe your ideals are higher... IF YOU THINK BRUTALLY ENFORCING YOUR POLITICAL POSITION IS JUSTIFIED YOU ARE AS ARROGANT AS HITLER AND STALIN two men politically opposed by identical in their use of hate and violence to achieve their objectives

be a monster if you want but don't complain when the monster come after you!

greenman-23

i think you miss the whole point.. HATE IS THE ENEMY .. if you adopt and practice hate you are the enemy! it' doesn't matter who you aim your bigotry and hate at it's bigotry and hate..

OMG if you replace hate with Judaism that sounds totally like Hitler or something.

When will you learn!!!?11 etc.

~J.

Actually why don't I quote fascists:

Adolf Hitler

Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our adversaries had understood its principle, and from the first day had smashed, with the most extreme brutality, the nucleus of our new movement

jolasmo

greenman-23

i think you miss the whole point.. HATE IS THE ENEMY .. if you adopt and practice hate you are the enemy! it' doesn't matter who you aim your bigotry and hate at it's bigotry and hate..

OMG if you replace hate with Judaism that sounds totally like Hitler or something.

When will you learn!!!?11 etc.

~J.

how ridiculous: I'm quoting martin Luther King... shame on you to try to pervert his great words

working class self organisation

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

Really? was it love that that stopped Hitler? was it love from the 43 group that destroyed Oswald Mosely? Was it love that stopped the NF in the 70's & 80's, was it love that that put the BNP back 10 years in the early 90's?

Perhaps you can give some examples of when 'love' has overcome fascism?

some.. there are thousands.. to be honest the lack of historical understanding here begs belief.. MARTIN LUTHER KING , GANDHI ... to name just two trust you have heard of them ?

because people like you keep it alive!

stop feeding the animal !

greenman-23

MARTIN LUTHER KING , GANDHI ... to name just two trust you have heard of them ?

Yeah, I've heard of Gandhi. Here's his letter to his "friend," Hitler.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/09/for-sake-of-humanity_10.html

Lucky he wrote it, otherwise there might have been a massive war or something.

greenman-23

working class self organisation

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

Really? was it love that that stopped Hitler? was it love from the 43 group that destroyed Oswald Mosely? Was it love that stopped the NF in the 70's & 80's, was it love that that put the BNP back 10 years in the early 90's?

Perhaps you can give some examples of when 'love' has overcome fascism?

some.. there are thousands.. to be honest the lack of historical understanding here begs belief.. MARTIN LUTHER KING , GANDHI ... to name just two trust you have heard of them ?

I'll see your Martin Luther King and Gandhi, and raise you a Malcolm X and Bhagat Singh.

As an aside, why is it that some folks seem to quote MLK and Gandhi as though their words are somehow unquestionably correct "just because"? I've encountered religious folks with a more flexible attitude to scripture than some pacifists' attitude to these two.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

Allowing the fascists to organise is to let hate conquer- I am against violence as way of resolving disputes but when faced with a group organising for violence against us (which is what building a fascist movement is all about) we can not allow them. To do so is suicide. Violence is not ever a good thing but it is not always avoidable. Building a movement for communism (spreading love?) is the long term answer to defeating fascism but in the short term we must defend ourselves or face destruction.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

Allowing the fascists to organise is to let hate conquer- I am against violence as way of resolving disputes but when faced with a group organising for violence against us (which is what building a fascist movement is all about) we can not allow them. To do so is suicide. Violence is not ever a good thing but it is not always avoidable. Building a movement for communism (spreading love?) is the long term answer to defeating fascism but in the short term we must defend ourselves or face destruction.

Oh good, the plot thickens with pacifism.

This is a quote from a post at Occupied London, I can't attest to its accuracy at the moment but I highly doubt that it would be untrue.

Agathi

Here’s some information on Hrisi Avgy/ Golden Dawn:

Firstly, GD has been responsible for many violent attacks on migrants in the past few years – including shootings, murders, beatings and operations to evict and burn migrant squats in collaboration with the police/state.

They have also stabbed anarchists (spring/summer of 2008) as well as the usual attempted/actual firebombing etc. A reality check for ‘real’ anarchists like you John (Steve go back to Echelon, your lunch break is over) who are more intimate with your keyboard then any sort of struggle for freedom.

“Golden Dawn described itself as a “People’s Nationalist Movement” and “uncompromising Nationalists. According to the Party’s charter, “only Aryans in blood and Greeks in descent can be candidate members of Golden Dawn”. The charter also puts the leader in total control of the party, and formalizes the use of the ******gruss for party members. At first, the party embraced neo-Pagan beliefs, believing them to be intermingled with National Socialism in accordance to Nazi occultism, describing Marxism and liberalism as “the ideological carriers of Judeo-Christianity.”

A few Golden Dawn members participated in the Bosnian War in the Greek Volunteer Guard (GVG), which was part of the Drina Corps of the Army of Republika Srpska. GVG volunteers were present in Srebrenica during the Srebrenica genocide, and they raised a Greek flag at a ruined church after the fall of the town. [this refers to the July 1995 killing, during the Bosnian War, of more than 8,000 Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina by units of the Army of Republika Srpska - who the GD members joined and where present during the genocide

Spiros Tzanopoulos, a GVG sergeant who took part in the attack against Srebrenica, said many of the Greek volunteers participated in the war because they were members of Golden Dawn.

Antonios Androutsopoulos (better known as Periandros), a prominent member of Golden Dawn, was on the run from 1998 to September 14, 2005 after being accused of the June 16, 1998 attempted murder of three left-wing students — including Dimitris Kousouris, who was heavily injured.

In October 1997, Giannopoulos published an article in Chrysi Avyi magazine calling for nationalist vigilantism against immigrants and left wingers. In 1998, a prominent party member, Antonios Androutsopoulos, [nearly lethally] assaulted left wing student activist Dimitris Kousouris.

In December 1980, Nikolaos Michaloliakos, and a group of his supporters launched Chrysi Avyi magazine. Michaloliakos (a mathematician and a dishonourably discharged former commando reservist officer) had been active in far right politics for many years, and he had been arrested several times for politically-motivated offences, such as beating attacks and illegal possession of explosive materials,which led to his dischargement from the military. While he was in prison, Michaloliakos met the leaders of the Greek military junta of 1967–1974 [the brutal dictatorship responsible for severe repression and the murder of students and dissenters], and he laid the foundations of the Hrisi Avgi party. The characteristics of the magazine and the organisation were clearly National Socialist.”

So apart from attacking and murdering migrants, anarchists (it is probably a good time to point out that the cop who killed Alexandros was a member of Golden dawn) Golden Dawn are also implicated in the mass murder of bosniaks – Bosnian muslims.

But yes, of course we shouldn’t mess with their election material and their operation bases – den’s from which they launch attacks on freedom, dignity and the lives of those who don’t fit their authoritarian visions of ‘purity’. Yes, totally…

...Gandhi had advocated his doctrines of non-violence from early on. This did not stop him from supporting the British in 1899 in the Boer War, volunteering to help them and organising an ambulance corps. As he said, "As long as the subjects owe allegiance to a state, it is their clear duty generally to accommodate themselves, and to accord their support, to the acts of the state". When Gandhi was organising a mass march in South Africa in 1913, to obtain rights for Indians there, the white railway workers went on strike over pay and conditions. Gandhi immediately cancelled his march, saying that civil resisters should not take advantage of a government’s difficulty .On the outbreak of the First World War, Gandhi actively recruited for the British war effort, despite his ‘pacifism’. On the outbreak of the Second World War, he publicly pledged not to embarrass the British, and would lend moral support to the Allies...

Afed critique the crap out of Gandhi!

wojtek

...Gandhi had advocated his doctrines of non-violence from early on. This did not stop him from supporting the British in 1899 in the Boer War, volunteering to help them and organising an ambulance corps. As he said, "As long as the subjects owe allegiance to a state, it is their clear duty generally to accommodate themselves, and to accord their support, to the acts of the state". When Gandhi was organising a mass march in South Africa in 1913, to obtain rights for Indians there, the white railway workers went on strike over pay and conditions. Gandhi immediately cancelled his march, saying that civil resisters should not take advantage of a government’s difficulty .On the outbreak of the First World War, Gandhi actively recruited for the British war effort, despite his ‘pacifism’. On the outbreak of the Second World War, he publicly pledged not to embarrass the British, and would lend moral support to the Allies...

Afed critique the crap out of Gandhi!

Peopl of the non-violence-doctrine are exactly on their way to build a religion. You can almost see how Muhammad, and Jesus (one or some of the many rebel Jewish sect) has been praised to the point where they became holy persons, whose ideas are nothing but the true words of God, therefore shall not be questioned.

Do not ask. Do not doubt. Do not think. Do not question the authority of MLK or Gandhi.

Disgusting. Their names are repeated ad nauseam with no proper historical reference, with no relevant information to the present, without any context. They just the new stars of the trendy, well-paid, socially-sensitive, alternative-vegan left. They've started with Steve Jobs. I've met some of these people and frankly I have the same urge to beat them up as I would in the presence of a fash.

As for the GD: In the political situation of Greece, they are getting more and more dangerous by the day. They have to be pushed back to the sewage where they are from, before it turns out to be too late.

They [the fash] have to be pushed back to the sewage where they are from, before it turns out to be too late.

A bit unfair of these four no? :)

Golden Dawn are violent fascists who are quite happy to attack left-wingers, migrants, different skin tones etc. They are an actual physical danger and that needs to be addressed. Pacifism works if you either massively outnumber the enemy (in the case of India the British Army had fewer troops defending the entire Empire than most european countries had in single colonies. It was a complete house of cards militarily. If you have an enemy willing and able to arrest, torture and murder then you're basically relying on them to develop a conscience or collapse from exhaustion.

I doubt many of the 'pacifists' who denounce this sort of thing would give two fucks if the police kicked the occupents out and boarded the place up. They'd probably think it was a victory for the tollerant society.

I can't understand anyone who thinks trashing a place owned by a murderous dictatorial organisation is anything other than a good thing.

greenman-23

i think you miss the whole point.. HATE IS THE ENEMY .. if you adopt and practice hate you are the enemy! it' doesn't matter who you aim your bigotry and hate at it's bigotry and hate..

by practising such acts you are not fighting fascism you are promoting it!

never a truer word ever said than the quote above by Martin Luther Hate cannot and never will drive out Hate...

When will you learn?

No, you're missing the whole point. Hate isn't the "enemy" no more than love is the "ally." Those are human emotions.

We're talking about class struggle, battles over the material conditions of human existence. We're talking about enemies of the working class; those who want to drive labor, and with it, all of humanity, into conditions of extreme deprivation in order to satisfy the need for the accumulation of capital.

You think, for example, those African-American militias that formed during Reconstruction to defend the former slaves from the terrorist attacks of the nightriders and KKK were promoting terrorism and racism? That's just plain stupid.

PS Get rid of this troll Greenman........

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

HEY HEY PARASITA!!!! HEY HEY PARASITA!!!!
[youtube]CIV0OypHXzs[/youtube]

I don't think Greenman is a troll, I don't agree with his absolute pacifism but it's not like he's a nationalist troll mocking us. Though I will say that he needs to lay off the patronizing "when will you learn"-rhetoric if he wants to be taken seriously, that kind of ego amongst pacifists is why it's hard to converse with them at times

I agree Banjo - but it's utter twaddle. Mind you, on the plus - what the Button said had me proper giggling!

"Yeah, I've heard of Gandhi. Here's his letter to his "friend," Hitler.
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/09/for-sake-of-humanity_10.html
Lucky he wrote it, otherwise there might have been a massive war or something."

Just thought I'd put this here. and if anyone wants to here the speech...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhg6LxyTnY8

And I don't know how much my any of you care about my personal opinion but I feel that (as a black male looking back at those times.) I feel that Malcolm X is a far more realistic human bring. Now I'm not trying to put down MLK but it takes 1 hell of a decent-good human being to be the kind of man he was...sadly though vast majority of our species can't be like him.

Both the Gandhi reference and the King reference are shite. India was a hot bed of violent resistance for like 100 years before the G man came and sat on the floor and won white peoples hearts. Also as HH post seems to suggest, there is no King without Malcolm, the Panthers, MOVE and a shit ton of other things going on in America at the time. These histories are hugely complex and it really annoys me when someone flippantly throws around a Gandhi or King quote (that they probably found from a self help book or off the back of a cereal box) with a flagrant disregard for the context.

Also, lols for smashing the fash's bogs

I'm concerned that Greenman is using pacifism as an excuse for inaction. Even Gandhi believed that armed resistance was far better than acceptance of oppression.
One doesn't drive a cancer out of one's body with love. And this societal cancer will neither shrink nor disappear without swift intervention.
Our love won't turn their hearts, but our actions might change their minds.

Religious or dogmatic pacifism is no good. Practically no violence means that you have to smash things. Hatred is an emotion like any other with reasons, and perhaps sometimes good reasons. It is important to relate to facts and tactics. There were many pacifist anifacists among others Augustin Suchy from germany who had nothing against direct action. Why should you give pacifimen bad publicity?

My experience in debates about violence and "militancy" in Austria and Denmark covers how little activists actually have to say and how little they relate to the public or their daily lives. The violence debaten is every time the same and is about fighting 2% of the population how are fascists but ignore completely what is going on in parliament and with the new democratic fascists.

Therefore I can not take these debaten serjøs - I can see that the situation is very different in other countries, but there is reason to left-radical (and especially anarchists) have the monopoly and the task in society to fight other politically marginalized groups in a spectacular fashion.

I may be wrong about the situation in Greece and other countries, but I would like to learn more about it?

If you all look at the bottom picture (the bathroom) you'll see that it was piped with CPVC (plastic piping) for the water supply. In my professional opinion this alone warrants a demolition of this office.

Plumber

If you all look at the bottom picture (the bathroom) you'll see that it was piped with CPVC (plastic piping) for the water supply. In my professional opinion this alone warrants a demolition of this office.

^This made me LOL. :) Thanks Plumber

The anarchists who trashed the offices, of the scumbag nazis of Golden Dawn, are worthy of the highest praise.

As for pacifism. The bourgeois like workers to pratice it when it comes to demos and picket lines etc. But when they want us to go and fight a war in Iraq, then they want the workers to be warriors for them.

There are two forms of pacifism, selective and thorough-going. Self-explanatory terms really.

I am sure the British loved the pacifism of Mohandas Gandhi. It helped them hold to India that little bit longer. On the sly, they would have been laughing up their fucking sleeves at him.

Me, I am a selective pacifist. If capital want me to fight a war against my fellow workers abroad, they can go fuck themselves. I would choose a prison cell than be a conscript for those duffers.

But in the act of insurrection, and seizing control of the means of production, and the goods we create and ought to control, then I am not a pacifist :pb:

Good posts from Plumber and Diddy.

Thanks Chilli Sauce.

Much appreciated, comrade :) :pb:

If you all look at the bottom picture (the bathroom) you'll see that it was piped with CPVC (plastic piping) for the water supply. In my professional opinion this alone warrants a demolition of this office.

:lol:

Surely that cartoon misses the point - Magrite's The Treachery of Images isn't a pipe because it's actually a painting of a pipe. The plumber is holding an actual pipe, so saying it's not a pipe doesn't make sense.

~J.

J, I'm sure you'd be a blast at parties ;)

~J life is too short...

SURREALISM IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

As for the toilets, they could have made like the Goonies.

[youtube]hVjs_puewiQ[/youtube]

jolasmo

Surely that cartoon misses the point - Magrite's The Treachery of Images isn't a pipe because it's actually a painting of a pipe. The plumber is holding an actual pipe, so saying it's not a pipe doesn't make sense.

~J.

The drawing of a plumber is holding a drawing of a pipe, surely?

Fuck, Uncreative beat me to that little spot of pedantry!

jolasmo

Surely that cartoon misses the point - Magrite's The Treachery of Images isn't a pipe because it's actually a painting of a pipe. The plumber is holding an actual pipe, so saying it's not a pipe doesn't make sense.

~J.

No mate, the pipe in that image has been recontextualised as art and is therefore, whilst structurally identical to a given 'pipe' (as the the term is socially constructed) exactly as much as a metephor for a pipe as a painting of a pipe.

SO THERE!