Death in June: a Nazi band? - Midwest Unrest

Article by the Midwest Unrest group about band Death in June, who use fascist symbolism, and their relation to Nazism, racism and the far right.

Submitted by Steven. on November 19, 2006

Death in June (DIJ) is not a typical white power nazi band - they do not shave their heads, sing about lynching Blacks or rant about Jewish conspiracies. Nonetheless, DIJ's unabashed support for fascist ideology and aesthetics is just as strong. Their use of fascist symbolism goes far beyond shock tactics, and ultimately the artistic and philosophical message they put forward serves to create an interest and acceptance that fascist cultural activists can exploit. This is particularly dangerous at a time when the white power music business generates millions in sales each year and fascists increasingly seek to gain a foothold in new subcultures, particularly the goth, neofolk, experimental and industrial scenes. Douglas Pearce, the singer/songwriter and central person in DIJ, has always been careful to conceal his true political beliefs and avoid controversy, but a close examination of DIJ's interests and activities reveals where his loyalties lie.

The name "Death in June" refers to June 30, 1934, the "Night of Long Knives", when Hitler had Ernst Roehm and other leaders of the SA (nazi stormtroopers) murdered. Roehm and his faction were highly critical of Hitler policies (make no mistake-they were still fascists) and are associated with a branch of fascist ideology National Bolshevism, spearheaded by Gregor Strasser. The National Bolsheviks argued for a more socialist version of fascism and criticized Hitler\rquote s reliance on industrial capitalists. (Today, this branch of fascism is called the Third Position.

DIJ repeatedly use fascist and nazi symbols on their albums and on stage, including the Death Head (worn as a pin by nazi SS soldiers), the Life Rune (a pagan symbol commonly used by fascists) and the Black Sun (another rune used by the SS). Likewise, members of DIJ have often worn nazi Waffen-SS uniforms on stage.

On their "Brown Book" LP, DIJ published the Horst Wessel song, the marching anthem of the SA and later the official song of the nazi party. Their song "Circo Massimo" from their "Take Care and Control" album loops a chorus from a fascist marching song. The title of their "Operation Hummingbird" album comes from a nazi military operation aimed at creating anti-gravity aircraft.

In 1992, during Yugoslavia's bloody civil war, Douglas Pearce visited the frontline and the HOS Miliz (Croatian fascists). Pearce made several live recordings in Croatia and then released them as a two-CD set called "Something Is Coming: Live and Studio Recordings From Croatia" that carried the red-white national flag of Croatia. Proceeds from the CD went to a Croatian (fascist) military hospital.

Also in 1992, DIJ backed out and refused to play the Dark X-Mas festival in Hamburg after the organizers issued a statement condemning a spate of fascist attacks on immigrant asylums in Germany. Likewise, DIJ also refused to play a 1994 Festival of Darkness because the show was promoted as being against racism and neo-nazism.

DIJ songs were published on a 1996 tribute to Leni Riefenstahl, a well-known Third Reich director/cinematographer. The CD was published by VAWS (Verlag und Agentur), a right-wing record-label run by Werner Symanek, who is part of the right wing in Germany and active in cultural work. VAWS has released similar tributes to nazi artists such as Arno Breker and Josef Thorak.

DIJ/Pearce have often collaborated and played with proto-fascist industrial artist Boyd Rice/NON. Pearce and Rice have also associated with fascist/Satanist Michael Moynihan of the band Blood Axis. (See more on Rice and Moynihan below.) Patrick "Kill", a former member of DIJ (now with Mother Destruction), disassociated himself from Pearce due to racism and intolerance within

DIJ shows have been cancelled and shut down or suffered protest numerous times on the grounds that DIJ supports fascism-in Chicago, Portland, Seattle, Germany, Switzerland and Norway, among others. In Chicago last year, the Metro cancelled a scheduled Death in June show, though it was rescheduled elsewhere (according to a promoter from American Gothic Productions, fascists did indeed attend the show).

DIJ have a fan base among modern fascist activists, many of whom actively encourage other fascists to attend DIJ shows.

For examples, click here and here.

Douglas Pearce Quotes
"The most influential man of this century has been Adolf Hitler! He's shaped the world we live in today with his hate and destruction."
"At the start of the eighties, Tony and I [Tony Wakefield was one of the original members of DIJ] were involved in radical left politics and beneath it history students. In search of a political view for the future we came across National Bolshevism which is closely connected with the SA hierarchy. People like Gregor Strasser and Ernst,who were later known as 'second revolutionaries' attracted our attention."
Misery and Purity: A History and Personal Interpretation of Death In June by Robert Forbes (Jara Press, Amersham 1995), p. 15.

Regarding the Night of the Long Knives: "Our interest doesn't come from killing all opposition, as it's been interpreted, but from identification with or understanding of the leftist elements of the SA which were purged, or murdered by the SS. That day is extremely important in human history... They were planning execution or overthrow of Hitler, so he wouldn't be around. We'd be living in a completely different world, I should imagine... It's fascinating that a few people held the destiny of the world and mankind in their hands for those few hours and let it slip, and it could've gone either way."
(source: interview with Sounds magazine, 1985)

"I prefer to suck, white, uncircumsised cocks of a certain age so I suppose that rules out quite a few races and religions in one huge act of sexualdiscrimination. However, that's natural selection for you. It follows on that, of course race is important to me!"
(source: interview with Dagobert's Revenge

The Argument
Some would argue that DIJ does not support fascism/nazi-ism, but that they just use fascist imagery and symbolism either for shock value or because they simply find them aesthetically pleasing.

This argument can be taken several ways. On one hand, we are to believe that because it is artistic, that there is no political content to it. Though we question this notion (in our view, everything is political), even if we didn't we would question the wisdom of spreading an aesthetic that is the basis for a fundamentally anti-human, anti-freedom philosophy without offering any sort of critique whatsoever. An exploration of fascist imagery could be interesting if it were juxtaposed with an exploration of the inherent dangers of fascism, but DIJ does nothing of the sort. In fact, their handling of nazi symbolism can be more accurately pinpointed as a celebration of fascist ideals. Nazi uniforms may look sharp, but ultimately the people that wear them leave something to be desired. Considering the growth of fascist movements in both Europe and North America over the past decade, and the attempts these fascists are making to spread their ideology, we can only view the promotion of fascist aesthetics as na\'efve at best, dangerous at worst.

On the other hand, we are to believe that DIJ's use of nazi symbolism is just a tired, old marketing gimmick, a form of fascist pornography that uses controversy to garner attention and sales. According to this view, DIJ's pro-fascist stance is just a meaningless marketing ploy. Even Douglas Pearce has said, "Obviously people have fallen into the trap of taking it on a surface value. That is their problem." Unfortunately for Pearce, it is a problem for him as well since the use of such symbolism has and does attract the attention of actual fascists (see above). By creating an atmosphere where fascist aesthetics and philosophy are supported, Pearce and DIJ are drawing fascists in - and they do nothing to discourage this, despite being called on it for over a decade. At best this is irresponsible, at worst reprehensible.

Ultimately, we believe that all of these arguments in defense of DIJ are bogus, as we feel there is enough evidence regarding DIJ\rquote s political stances, projects and activities to show that they are doing more than just flirting with fascist imagery.

Some would argue that by trying to shut down DIJ shows, that we are being "fascist" and that we are engaging in censorship. This is not a question of free speech. Bookers, promoters and club owners decide everyday what bands they want to play in music establishments. This is no more censorship than choosing a rock group over a country act. Do you support fascism? If not, then why would you support Death in June?

Douglas Pearce is gay, so how can he be a nazi/fascist?
There is a documented history of homosexual participation and support within fascist movements, despite the fact that most fascists count homosexuals as enemies. There is also the distinct possibility that Pearce is so interested in Ernst Roehm because Roehm was homosexual, just like Pearce is.

Wasn't Pearce's visit to Croatia and the benefits he did for humanitarian reasons?
In an interview with Descent magazine (issue 3), Pearce stated that it wasn't a "purely a humanitarian gesture. It was a cultural one. A socio-Euro political one." The people he visited were fascists.

Boyd Rice
Like Pearce and DIJ, Boyd Rice has consistently embraced fascism throughout his career as an experimental noise artist. In addition to wearing fascist uniforms and imagery and giving nazi salutes on stage, there is wide range of evidence indicating that Rice is a nazi at heart.

Rice set up an explicitly fascist show on August 8th, 1988 in San Francisco called 8-8-88. "88" is a code phrase commonly used in fascist circles for "Heil Hitler" (H is the 8th letter of the

Rice is also infamous for a photograph in which he is wearing the uniform of the neo-nazi American Front and sitting next to his friend Bob Heick, the leader of the American Front at that time.

In 1986, Rice was a friendly guest on the television show hosted by Tom Metzger of WAR (White Aryan Resistance). When Metzger asked Rice: "So whereas modern music propaganda is an instrument of Jewish interest and Black and so forth, you see emerging a new propaganda form for white Aryans?" Rice replied:"Yeah, yeah."

Rice founded a group called the Abraxas Foundation along with Holocaust-denier Keith Stimley. The Abraxas Foundation published a newsletter called WAKE, which told its readers that "nature adheres to an Immutable Order" in short, humanity is democratic, nature is fascist.

Rice has been known to sell at his shows and read as part of his performance from a racist, anti-Semitic book called "Might is Right", by Ragnar Redbeard. "Might is Right" includes an afterword from George Eric Hawthorne, the former singer of the neo-nazi band RAHOWA (RAcial HOly WAr) and founder of the white power music label Resistance Records. The book was edited by Katja Lane, wife of the imprisoned David Lane, a neo-nazi member of the Order that committed several armored car heists and murdered Jewish talk-show host Alan Berg in the 1980s. Proceeds from the book go to support David Lane and similar white supremacist political prisoners.

Though Rice claims not to be racist or neo-nazi, he does not deny that he is a fascist and social Darwinist. According to an interview by Misanthrope, he said: "I feel that I'm a fascist, but Nazi is a real specific term. I'm a fascist in the sense of the modern bastardised meaning of the word. I'm completely against democratic values and liberalism. (read the interview)

As if that\rquote s not repugnant enough, Rice also does not conceal his hatred of women. As revealed in Misanthrope:
Back to the rumours. Are you a misogynist?
"Yeah." Nods fervently for the record. [Laughs.] "Yeah, more and more all the time."
What makes you feel that way?
"Just a lot of experience with women. I don't think women deserve the same rights as men. I don't think women are on an equal footing with men. I think they're totally different creatures. I think the world operated better when they had less say over how the way things went, had less control."
And regarding his piece "R.A.P.E.", which is appallingly pro-rape but allegedly tongue-in-cheek: "I was poking a bit of fun, but it's like there's more than a grain of truth in everything I said in there. I think all the stuff I said was basically true. Which is why it's funny when it's funny. And it's why it upsets women, when it upsets women. Because, you know, they can't really deny most of that stuff. "
"Well that's why when women start having these intellectual arguments with me I say at a certain point, "Listen, I refuse to even argue with a woman." They say, "Well, why is that?" and I say, "Because you overreact, you get all emotional, and fly into a tizzy."

Even Boyd Rice's former lovers do not deny his racist and fascist tendencies. According to an interview with Rice's former girlfriend Lisa Suckdog: "His audience is all Nazis and Satanists and they have their own hall and they do their Nazi racist stuff.

Michael Moynihan
A former friend of Boyd Rice, Moynihan is a prolific writer, musician and straightforward Satanist. Just like his associates, Moynihan clearly comes across as fascist when you see the evidence:

Moynihan wrote the book Lords of Chaos, detailing the church burnings in Scandinavia attributed to the black metal scene. These incidents led to the flourishing of NSBM: National Socialist Black Metal.

Moynihan runs a music label called Storm that distributes music by neo-nazi Varg Vikernes (of the band Burzum) as well as other NSBM music projects.

In an interview with Compulsion magazine (#3, circa 1988), Moynihan said: "I have no problem being called a fascist. If fascism will restore some sense of order, discipline and responsibility to the world, then I am all for it."

Moynihan published the book "Siege" by neo-nazi James Mason. Once a member of the American Nazi Party, Mason now belongs to the Universal Order, a group that sees Charles Manson as the next Hitler. Mason is currently serving time in Colorado for menacing with a deadly weapon.

Sources
Christian Dornsbuch, contributor to RechtsRock, Bestandsaufnahmeund Gegenstrategien and Asthetische Mobilmachung (German books concerning fascist influences in music scenes).

Soundtracks to the White Revolution: White Supremacist Assaults on Youth Music Culture, by the Center of New Community

Misc. Online Research

More info on Death In June, Der Blutharsch and Changes
Changes - R.N. Taylor Changes is the re-union of a 1970's Chicago "apocalyptic folk" band headed up by self described "white separatist" R.N. Taylor. With his long hair, acoustic guitar, and folk tunes, Taylor is the Bob Dylan of bigotry.

Active for decades in white supremacy, Taylor is no stranger to racist violence. In a 1998 interview with the British publication Tribal Resonance, Taylor discusses taking part in attacks against the homes of African-American families, as well as hanging African-Americans in effigy from lampposts in Chicago during the late 1960s.

Taylor went on to join the violent right wing paramilitary group the Minutemen, an organization active in the 1960s and early 1970s that was rife with white supremacists and Klansmen at its leadership.

In the same Tribal Resonance interview, Taylor describes his goal for racial separation in the United States. The verbal map that Taylor draws for his reader parallels an actual plan for racial separation drawn by white supremacist David Duke. According to Taylor, white separatists would get the Pacific Northwest as a homeland, and African Americans would be moved to America's southlands.

In Duke's original version of this concept, which was drawn for the National Association for the Advancement of White People, whites retained overall control of the country while Latino, Jews and Native Americans are moved to various relocation areas. Taylor began sincerely putting his politics into music in the 1970s.

Der Blutharsch (a synonym for "dried blood") is an Austrian white power music act headed by Albin Julius, formed in 1997, with the assistance of Death in June leader Douglass Pearce.

The band takes great pride in their use of fascist symbols, and is well known for its use of Nazi imagery. Der Blutharsch attracts neo-Nazi's and right wing extremists across Europe.

In March 2003, a concert in Clausnitz, Germany was cancelled by the German government. In a statement released by the security police concluded that Der Blutharsch has "right wing extremist tendencies." (The statement has significant weight in Germany, given the legal impermissibility of such extremism.)

Those tendencies are evident in the packaging and music of the band. The Der Blutharsch logo is a symbol with a Sig-rune, like the Waffen-SS used. Their website also relies on the Nazi Iron Cross and the logo of the Hitler Youth.

The covers of their albums are also adorned with Nazi art. The cover of the CD "Der Sieg des Lichtes ist des Lebens Heil!" (The triumph of light is the life's Heil) is a part of a picture about the Varus battle, painted by the Nazi painter Werner Peiner.

The cover of the CD "The pleasures received in Pain" is a reprint of the painting "Defense eastern Einfdle" by Nazi artist Ferdinand Staeger. Their songs also sample lyrics from the Hitler Youth marching anthem "Forward!" and other speeches and marches.

The EP "Adesso viene IL bell" even contains eight songs from Italian fascism. On a live-video, published in 1999, named "Gold gab ich fcr Eisen" (I gave gold for iron) of the second tour, a "Finnish version of Lili Marleen," a popular song in Germany during World War II, was played (called "Lisa Pien").

The song was dedicated to the Freiwillige der Waffen SS and Marsch des Sturmatillerie, European volunteers of the Waffen SS march of the storm artillery. The second tour was together with Death in June. At the end of the video, the second singer Wilhelm Herich shouted "Free Pinochet".

Comments

Ballbreaker

14 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Ballbreaker on November 9, 2009

Don't get me wrong. I'm far from the nazi ideology and quite close to the Marx ideas.

What are you claiming is that one of the most influential neofolk bands out there, if not the most, is nazi. You're not the first, nor the last one to claim this. While they do use nazi imagery, I will quote the Slovenian Slavoj Szizek:

"The first mistake people make when identifying fascists is to think that fascists act like fascists."

Boyd Rice has made appearances in white power tv shows, ku-klux clan dressings, world-war-two imagery photos and so on, and so on. He has done this, as well as acting like Dmitri Medvedev or dressing like Saddam Hussein, or even wearing t-shirts with pink swastikas on them. While this guy has a views you may dislike, he is far from the nazi ideology and most of the thing he does must be viewed as prank.

Death in June were involved in the extremely far left punk band Crisis, and Douglas P. has stated not once that whilst he is fascinated by the third-point fascistic ideology, his own believes stay in the left spectre. One of the best arguments that people have against DiJ is the song "Rose Clouds of Holocaust", claiming that this is a song in favour of the holocaust denial theories, as the rose clouds can be viewed as a symbol of dreaming and 'rose' future. However, if you look further you'll see that it is nothing but an another controversial text how the ashes of the dead bodies came out as rose clouds. Moreover, the quote you have chosen, "The most influential man of this century has been Adolf Hitler! He's shaped the world we live in today with his hate and destruction.", is something I can totally agree with - in the end wasn't it Hitler who changed the world in the 30s and 40s of the past century?

If you are interested in Death in June's/Boyd Rice's music and their 'Social Darwinism' political ideas, I recommend you to check them out at Mute Records. You know that ultra-fascistic label, the one that produces the music of those nazis Depeche Mode, Moby, Hovercraft, etc.

flaneur

14 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by flaneur on November 9, 2009

"In 1992, during Yugoslavia\rquote s bloody civil war, Douglas Pearce visited the frontline and the HOS Miliz (Croatian fascists). Pearce made several live recordings in Croatia and then released them as a two-CD set called "Something Is Coming: Live and Studio Recordings From Croatia" that carried the red-white national flag of Croatia. Proceeds from the CD went to a Croatian (fascist) military hospital."

There's prancing about with Nazi symbols like a wally, and then there's actually funding fascist organisations. Doesn't really matter whether they were influential or not.

Ballbreaker

14 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Ballbreaker on November 9, 2009

Interestingly, the only Croatian fascists organisations that I've heard of were labeled as such by the Serbians and Montenegroans, the same people who invaded Croatia during the civil war and destroyed beautiful historical sites in cities such as Zagreb and Dubrovnik. Calling them 'fascist' is strange.

Also, I hear for the first time of HOS Miliz. Searching for them with Google got this page as top result.

They use Nazi symbols, just like Discovery Channel, my history book and Dead Kennedys. That show nothing.

Spassmaschine

14 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Spassmaschine on November 9, 2009

Ballbreaker

the only Croatian fascists organisations that I've heard of were labeled as such by the Serbians and Montenegroans, the same people who invaded Croatia during the civil war and destroyed beautiful historical sites in cities such as Zagreb and Dubrovnik. Calling them 'fascist' is strange.

Stranger is the focus on the destruction of historical sites - surely the problem of the civil war was slaughter of many thousands of humans?

You might want to check out this thread. Whether you label them 'fascist' or not, the Croatian 'side' acted like all other bourgeois sides do in a war - lined up its working class to slaughter and be slaughtered by the working class on the other 'side', to try and expand its sphere of political and economic interest. This is not to diminish the crimes of the Serbian bourgeoisie, merely to show that ultimately their activity and intent was ultimately the same as the other from the working class' point of view, and equally alien to its interests.

prec@riat

14 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by prec@riat on November 9, 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e
there is some history on Croatian fascism for you...

I think it's funny how all the same lame defenses get trotted out about how DIJ isn't fascist... all of the same lame objections which are already addressed in the article...

Since this topic been bumped... I'll point out again to the mods that this was actually written by Chicago ARA (with a good deal of research done by Center for New Community) and not Midwest Unrest. I don't really care who gets the author credit as I was a member of both groups, but the person who actually wrote this was a Chicago ARA member and was not in Midwest Unrest.

Submitted by IvanZ on March 2, 2010

"In 1992, during Yugoslavia\rquote s bloody civil war, Douglas Pearce visited the frontline and the HOS Miliz (Croatian fascists). Pearce made several live recordings in Croatia and then released them as a two-CD set called "Something Is Coming: Live and Studio Recordings From Croatia" that carried the red-white national flag of Croatia. Proceeds from the CD went to a Croatian (fascist) military hospital."

Donation for "Klinički bolnički centar Zagreb - Klinički zavod za rehabilitaciju i ortopedska pomagala."

Yeah a real fascist organization you fucking idiots.

And one big thank you goes to Douglas for helping when help was needed.

PartyBucket

14 years 3 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by PartyBucket on March 2, 2010

FAO: People Who Defend Death In June - It would be fuckin sweet if you died.

die Liebe

14 years 3 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by die Liebe on March 9, 2010

Śmieszne te artykuły zwracające uwagę na sprawy mało istotne. Ja znalazłem w tej kapeli Siłę Nośną całkiem innych idei niż faszyzm czy nazizm. Odrzucenie, maska, samotność, walka... co kobieta może wiedzieć o tym, jak to jest mieć kumpla, mieć odwagę walczyć o sprawę? Kiedyś znalazłem kretyńską dyskusję, w świetle której samo wzięcie do ręki płyty laibacha lub dij dyskwalifikuje człowieka jako nazistę... śmieszne... albo to, że czarni nie przychodzą na koncerty dij... Byłem na wielu koncertach i prawdę mówiąc n i g d y nie widziałem czarnego wśród publiki, bywali natomiast czarni wykonawcy. Ale to oczywiście zapewne dlatego, że bywam na rasistowskich koncertach bo mieszkam w rasistowskiem kraju:ppp pfff
i po co taki kretyn jak notch8 się tu pojawia? z sympatii dla autora urwał się z forum jacksona?

die Liebe

14 years 3 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by die Liebe on March 9, 2010

oczywista doug p jako prawdziwy nazista jest homoseksualistą, prawda? pffff

Boris Badenov

14 years 3 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Boris Badenov on March 9, 2010

How to get ahead in the "neofolk" scene:

-Wear an idiotic "brutal" costume (camo jump suit and carnival mask recommended)
-Use nazi regalia "ironically". E.g. make the tottenkopf your official logo, sample fascist marches, etc.
-Claim you're really on the left
-Thrive on the "controversy" that ensues and make a fuckload of money selling your comatose shite music to gullible teenage twats.

sinister exaggerator

13 years 11 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by sinister exaggerator on July 19, 2010

If I let ideology consciously dictate my tastes in the arts, what would I be left to listen to, to read, to watch? Death In June is out, Bad Brains are out for their confrontational homophobia, John Cage for his sentimental anarchism, Jorge Luis Borges is out for his reactionary liberalism, Knut Hamsun is gone, and all the middle of the road opinions held by people whose work I enjoy.

All of you have seem to forgotten, or didn't know, that musicians are essentially monkeys when it comes to politics; if not parroting, then having a superficial grasp of anything beside common, bourgeois politics. Why aren't we using the same yardstick now as when we decide the character of person, from the things we've read? I couldn't care less about DIJ's fascism, real or imagined, or Bad Brains off the stage, or Phil Spector's insanity-with-a-gun antics. Of course, it's in style, always has been, to act all self righteous, and it gives us the inane political drama we strive for to 'fight' against some alienated schmucks who make music with ideas we hate.

Time to get over it, or the only thing we'll have to listen to is Woody Guthrie. That would immensely suck. As if anything revolutionary is embodied by the Stooges, or Can, besides the emotion.

cfcryan

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by cfcryan on December 17, 2010

This article should be removed. Many things here are stretches (at best), and it is the sort of foaming-at-the-mouth Spanish inquisition style hate propaganda I'd read about in the Bible Belt by Creationists and radical, Bible humping Christians.

First of all, they are not using FASCIST IMAGERY. It is called PAGAN IMAGERY and it pre-dates any of the history your feeble mind can grasp.

Second, simply because they may write about events in World War II does not make them fascist (god, that word is getting so old -- pin it on everyone you want). Have you ever thought, or read their interviews, to understand that he is fascinated with it?

So by this standard we should also not listen to JOY DIVISION and, oh god save us, NEW ORDER. Ian Curtis liked Nazi imagery and symbolism as well, but he was far from being a fascist and you should honestly do yourself a favor and stop wasting precious space on earth if you think the happy, light-hearted music of New Order is "fascist." Honestly, the song Temptation is about a young Neo Nazi walking home at night, right? Well by your standards, then yes.

This also means that we must burn all the works of Mark Twain because he sometimes wrote vulgar and crude things towards African-Americans -- but you will probably take that out of context as well and label him a racist.

So throw in there also the works of Elvis Costello, Malcolm X, TS Eliot, Virginia Woolf, Earnest Hemingway, etc etc etc.

I'd like to go back to the runes used: These are ancient symbols that intrigue me as well. I am not a Pagan, but have read extensively into neo-Paganism (namely Germanic Neo-Paganism), but you have to take things at face value. It's a shame that these symbols have been ruined not only by the Third Reich, but also by tools like the author of this article. If I wore the Mjollnir on my shirt (which is Odin's Hammer because I will not presume you are informed), you would think I were a right wing, racist, fascist, Jew-hating pig. Or perhaps maybe I like the symbolism, perhaps I like my Norse roots, perhaps I like the myth of Odin? You have to understand that you are, by writing and believing misleading articles such as this, are spreading just as many lies and as much fear as any Neo-Nazi who chooses to also pervert these ancient symbols.

Whoever wrote this has too much time on their hands. Will anti-fascism is admirable, you need to take everything with a grain of salt. This Spanish Inquisition style article places antifa right up there with good old fascism.

If you believe this article, you are a tool.

PartyBucket

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by PartyBucket on December 17, 2010

So when Douglas Pearce says things like...

"At the start of the eighties, Tony and I were involved in radical left politics and beneath it history students. In search of a political view for the future we came across National Bolshevism which is closely connected with the Sturmabteilung hierarchy. People like Gregor Strasser and Ernst Röhm who were later known as 'second revolutionaries' attracted our attention."

...should I take that with 'a grain of salt'?

Boris Badenov

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Boris Badenov on December 17, 2010

lol what a stupid cunt.
Mindrape in June ARE using nazi symbols you bellend. Observe:
The Tottenkopf

A not so cleverly disguised swastika

"oh but the swastika is an ancient Indian symbol of peace!" I hear you mumbling. The problem is DIJ are clearly not trying to educate their audience in the symbology of ancient Asian religions in the manner of a "post-industrial" Joseph Campbell. No, they are using a highly divisive and politically charged symbol to make a point (whatever it may be).
Now that doesn't make them nazis necessarily (although examples from the article and quotes like the one provided by PartyBucket above say otherwise), but it does at the very least make them shock jockey twats who thrive on "controversy."
No one is disputing your fascination with runes, Odin's arse beard or any of that crap, but to deny that the bands mentioned in the article self-consciously manipulate fascist iconography either to push their own dodgy politics or simply to sell records would be idiotic, and yes that is worth exposing, and no it's not "just like Christian fundamentalists bashing evolution."

Jason Cortez

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Jason Cortez on December 17, 2010

Neo-paganism-LOLZ

Submitted by Boris Badenov on December 17, 2010

Jason Cortez

Neo-paganism-LOLZ

What accounts for your ignorance of such basic banalities?

flaneur

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by flaneur on December 17, 2010

Imagine, being in your teens and wearing a swastika armband for shock value and how embarassing that must be. Yet these bailsacks are now middled aged and really should know better.

Django

13 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Django on December 17, 2010

To be fair, these nobheads would have no audience for their weak three-chord 'neo-folk' if it wasn't for their calculated Nazi image and its shock value. So from a marketing point of view, its a success.

Cernunnos Tris…

13 years 3 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Cernunnos Tris… on February 24, 2011

As a long time black metal fan, I have to point out some inaccuracies....

Yes, a lot of black metal musicians are crypto-fascist or social Darwinist wankers in one way or another, but the church arsons of the early '90s Norwegian scene did not lead to the "flourishing" of the NSBM scene by any stretch. Sure, you might find the roots of many of the neo-volkisch, nationalist, and anti-democratic themes in a number of band's lyrics at the time, but with the exception of Varg Vikernes (who I will return to in a moment), almost none of the original bands of the scene had explicitly fascist political viewpoints. Most were apolitical. In fact, Fenriz of Darkthrone was allegedly arrested during an anti-Aparteid demonstration. That's not to say there weren't some astounding acts of bigotry - obviously the burning of historical Stave churches as some kind of neo-pagan revenge reeks of such no matter how much Christianity may suck. The other infamous murder associated with the scene (the most infamous being Varg Vikernes' murder of Mayhem's Oystein "Euronymous" Aarseth) was Emperor drummer, Bard "Faust" Eithun's murder of a homosexual man who propositioned him. Still, having read numerous interviews and lyrics, it seems much more apparent that the phenomenon that was the early Norwegian black metal scene was much more the work of ideologically confused, angsty teenagers. The majority of them were much more concerned with themes of satanism, death worship, and paganism than any coherent political ideology. Many black metal bands have also denounced NSBM, and it remains a minority presence in the overall world of black metal

Onto Vikernes: while the guy is certainly a right-wing, social conservative, racist creep, it's important to note that it's been well over a decade since he stopped identifying with the neo-Nazi movement. Moreover, Burzum is NOT and NSBM band. There are no Burzum songs with lyrics that endorse Nazism or Fascism. Pagan themes, and ahistorical nostalgia for a lost "golden age" of Nordic heathenism are a constant presence, and they admittedly fit in with Varg's ideas about Nordic culture, but you'd be hard pressed to find anything racist or Nazi in them. Furthermore, Varg's views in the early 90s may have inspired the NSBM scene, but Burzum has never associated with it. If you want to really trace the origins of NSBM, you'll have to look to Germany's Absurd and Poland's Graveland.

A lot of these misconceptions can be traced to Moynihan's book Lords of Chaos, which makes pains to link black metal to Moynihan's own pagan neo-fascist views, but truly grasps at straws doing so. Varg himself has spoken out against the book in numerous articles and interviews, so the notion that Moynihan and Varg were in some kind of business partnership is absurd. I'm unaware of any of Burzum's major releases being on Moynihan's label (the oldest ones were through Aarseth's defunct Deathlike Silences label, later releases and re-releases were through Cymophane and Misanthropy records, the newest ones through some label called Byelobog), but considering Varg's vitriol towards Lords of Chaos, I would venture to guess he would be displeased with such distribution.

I am not trying to be an apologist for any of the extreme right views that often pervade the black metal scene, but too often it has been linked by association to Nazism simply by virtue of Varg's older poltical identity, the NSBM scene, and Moynihan's shoddy journalism.

RPG

13 years 1 month ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by RPG on May 14, 2011

I was a massive fan of Crisis and so was interested in DIJ, plus a friend of mine knew them (and managed to get them to play at the world famous (not) Silks night club in Thatchem). I was them in the Clarendon in London, 1982/83 and was truly shocked. The 'support act' were Hitler speeches (with accompanying film of the Nurenburg rally) and a fair proportion of the crowd seemed to be in some sort of neo-nazi uniform. I don't think that there was much doubt about their politics with some of there lyrics: heaven street, she said destroy, we drive east etc., Mind you musically I did like them...

ea_hellrúna

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ea_hellrúna on May 27, 2011

Ive been a huge fan of DIJ for a while, so this was very hard for me to read. Still, im glad that this article was written. Im honestly embarrased that I was a fan so long without realizing what DIJs actual politics were.

Politics in music is really tricky. I used to like listening to reggae, but eventually got overwhelmed at the task of trying to figure out which bands were homophobic and which ones werent. Its kind of bizzare that there are still hippies who think that jamacia is some sort of peace-loving utopia, when its actually one of the most homophobic places on earth.

As for black metal, its similar. I used to be a huge fan of Burzum, I still think their music is beautiful, but I simply cant rationalize supporting a white supremacist band by buying their music.

That being said...as a runeworker and a Germanic pagan, I find it saddening that people still think runes are fundamentally racist.

If you actually study runes, youll find that (GASP) there is no rune that means "racial purity". They mean things like wheel, sun, horse. They deal with the elemental realities of the ancient Norse people.

Finally, I find it ironic that, on the one hand, its racist to appropriate non white cultures. I accept that totally. Then on the other hand, its seen as racist for white people to embrace their cultural roots. That, I cannot accept.

PLEASE NOTE: when i refer to white people embracing their cultural roots, i am NOT talking about collecting Nazi Paraphernalia or any of that bullshit.

Im referring to the fact that every person of every color has an inherent need to connect with their past, their tribe, and their roots. So as a result we have a body of music and art that tries to do that, but often does it so clumsily that instead of confronting the racism that colors that past, it embraces it, instead of the true roots. That, I also cannot accept.

Besides, I was going to delete all my death in june anyway because it was all downloaded and I felt stupid listening to downloaded music.

Steven.

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Steven. on May 28, 2011

I'm white, but I feel no sort of need to connect with the past of other people who happen to be white. Sharing a skin colour with someone means absolutely nothing

LBird

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by LBird on May 28, 2011

ea_hellrúna

Im referring to the fact that every person of every color has an inherent need to connect with their past, their tribe, and their roots.

Im referring to the fact that every person of every earsize has an inherent need to connect with their past, their tribe, and their roots.

Rob Ray

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Rob Ray on May 28, 2011

Speak for yourself, I know about as far back as my great grandparents and have very little interest in what went on before that - "human" is all I really need to know.

ea_hellrúna

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by ea_hellrúna on June 10, 2011

After some thought, I decided I should apologize for the tone of my post. Its pretty clear that the issue here is not about white people being kept from connecting to their roots by some sort of conspiracy. Im sorry if thats how it sounded. Thats not what I intended to say.

I also respect the view that some white people have no desire to connect to their roots, if that works for you, good for you.

But I personally have a deep need to study Norse shamanism, seidr, runes, and Ogham. Its just part of who I am. However Its unnecessary for me to act like Im automatically going to be treated as a racist just for saying that. I should know by now that most anti-racist activists have much bigger fish to fry and are generally very understanding.

Arbeiten

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Arbeiten on June 11, 2011

I really have very little time for this sot of shock value whiteness. Anal Cunt do it, and its not funny. I know a lot of neo-folk and black metal (and cross overs) do it as well, again its not cool. Like the music by all means, but don't make massive interpretations of how 'well they might be fascists but they are not really fascists'. It compromises your position. I like a lot of black metal, but I am not apologising for any of it and if I met anyone from a black metal band who was talking about their pagan bollocks i would ridicule them like any other wiccan or what ever. All this stuff is a depressing indictment to the loss people in Europe are feeling right now and a thorough lack of socio-political imaginaries of the future. This is all myth making and I'm really uncomfortable about it all. I think white people should look at what they have done over the last 300 years and come to terms with that before claiming they can 'feel' some sort of primordial european-ness and can innocently express that without all the baggage it comes with.

Arbeiten

13 years ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Arbeiten on June 11, 2011

oh and to the post above that tried to distinguish fascist imagery from pagan imagery and pretend its all ok after that slight of hand. Pathetic.

Someone In Europe

12 years 8 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Someone In Europe on October 3, 2011

DIJ have their issues but lots of people I know are admiring the band for its ambiguity rather than direct relation to things you so explicitly point out here. I am also critical of DIJ in certain areas but some of your comments seem like a naively learned information from the third party that suits your own eventual prejudice regarding what DIJ actually represents or doesn't represent at all...

I agree that DIJ deliberately confuse and manipulate the ugliness of mankind to its tasteless extremes (whether in music, concerts or interviews, choosing strange and often forbidden references to cause a stir) - according to Douglas's very own eccentric nature of an individual (and I dare believe, just like Boyd Rice, he still gives his individual views of the world we live in), it is somewhat strange how far can he actually go but it's stll an individual view. I don't agree with it but I also accept some of the art context these bizarre fascinations with human ugliness project.

Of course DIJ and the like will attract a number of empty headed retards - Laibach, Rammstein, Marilyn Manson or David Bowie, amongst many others, experienced the same thing. One in a row of nazi-flirting personas, Bowie for example, experienced a debacle saluting in nazi fashion around 1976. Why? He wanted to cause a stir. Did this change anything about his music? Well, it caused a furore of sorts in public, but nonetheless, Bowie simply (if not stupidly) proved how pointless it actually was - neither did he divide his audience, regardless of race. "Station To Station" from around that time, is supposedly dealing with the occult but I never even bothered with that side of it - to me, it's a favourite, sentimentally driven music album.

Even "China Girl" (first by Iggy and some years later by Bowie) added a spicy line "Visions of swastikas in my head" just for the flavour but did it convert me - or any fan of Bowie that I know - into a fascist? I truly doubt so. Just look at the Iceland's alternative scene - bands like Theyr and Ego were rather provocatively singing directly about Rudolf Hess ("Rudolf") and Hitler ("Sieg heil"), in order to mock them to bits (like DIJ, both Theyr and Ego were far left orientated and anti-fascist). The problem is (sadly of course), nazi aesthetic affected everyone - most people aware of the atrocities of the nazis, are in fact deconstructing its symbolism by re-adapting it into meaningless form. DIJ are no exception, they are probably aware of the consequences but as much as they attract the attention of the far right, they also attract the attention of those realising the irony of exploiting controversial issues into art form just the same. After all, Punk started with the very same thing - McLaren and Co. (Pistols and especially early Siouxsie) were explicitally "swastika"... It was so de-politicised. They were erasing the issue of nazism by throwing it all back into its ugly face.

One thing here I spotted you said about Yugoslavian war and some people already reacted on their own terms... I am from Croatia - and I ensure you, Douglas did not support "Croatian fascists". At the time, little I knew about HOS - except that it was not officially recognised force although still supported by authorities when war just started to burst Croatian eastern border, towards the within - but it included regular people as well, willing to defend their homes, fighting against ongoing battles at the time led by Serbian paramilitary aggression. In the end, the Yugoslavian war turned into a bloodshed mess including all sides, resulting in innocent victims on each of these sides, while today the prospects of the wrong minds and rotten hearts that used this war for their hypocritically adjusted propaganda are still being counted.

With "Something Is Coming" (which was basically a live concept album with humanitarian purpose), Douglas was mostly making effort to donate a support device for people in need, who fought during the war's early stage and experienced limb loss. The donation went to one of the regular state hospitals, I really have no idea where-ever you got the information about the "fascist military hospital"? Because such definition you made of it is plain WRONG! The concert was attended by regular people who knew of the group's work up to that point and none of them are fascists. An acquaintance of mine even collaborated in translating the songs for that record's lyric sheet to Croatian...

Of course, Douglas's gesture didn't go without complications - I heard a rumour the device was stalled on the border, and Douglas had to pay additional tax for it in order to bring it into the country - which, regarding the circumstances in which he participated willingly to donate money himself for the device, was absurd. At that point Croatia was just about to be recognised as newly independent country, so the administration was all mess. People were all mess. Everything was all mess. This concert was one of very few curious little things that happened culturally at the time.

However, personally I didn't go seeing DIJ on that tour - I went to see them in May, 1997, and enjoyed the noise of it, it was really stunning. there were no fascists there either... Later on, I saw them twice more and I don't remember any fascist dickhead in the audience on any of these occasions... just regular people aware of their shock value and accepting it as it is - the shallowness of it all. For me, all of the group's blind obsession with obscure symbolism and right wing politics became quite tiresome, manly because it's in fact so immature. I realised that by 25, I simply lost any interest in further listening to it. It turned into 'flogging a dead horse', it revealed itself as predictable self-indulgent hodge podge, actually lost in its neofolkish rally. But, for the perversity of me (or curiosity maybe more), I needed that at the time.

In general, DIJ's music is made to provoke thought - I am equally disgusted at some of their shock tactics because, no matter how ambiguous they are trying to be, such direct raw aesthetics of theirs make no particular sense to me - I simply disagree and reject them. I was never into any of their rhetoric to understand or accept the music - it was simply the 'beauty' of the beast, the unknown, hidden world I had to see/hear - and face - for myself. One thing I still agree about DIJ, despite its now established neofolk trademark and shallow lament, there's also a fair share of intrigue that goes along with it. I enjoyed the sheer perversity of it but as time went by, I realised it was something I grew over, something which despite the eclectic musical value has nothing to hold on me, nothing that I find of actual timeless quality. Neither of the so-called 'neofolk' representatives have that effect on me - while I still prefer occasionally to remind myself of DIJ, listening to selected early stuff they did (like the amazing "Black Radio") or experimental excursions like "Behind the Rose (Fields of Rape)" or frighteningly beautiful "The Fog of the World", I know in my mind there is a "firewall" that defends me from "falling prey" to any such potential trap these, or any other, songs - whether by DIJ, or else - might have. It's obvious for what it is, or what it is not. It's up to one's personal perception. Right. Or wrong.

astrum111

11 years 11 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by astrum111 on June 27, 2012

Regardless of Death In June's hidden politic, and regardless of whether Nazi symbology is empty of inherent existence...it is such that conventionally, the usage of such imagery provokes the depth of horrors that Hitler and his insipid sheep burned into the world.

The fact that Douglass P. remains aloof and obscure about his political leanings, to me, is characteristically cowardly, especially given his status as a musician. In the interview that is referenced in Dagoberts Revenge, Doulass P. appears to me as arrogant, smug and unwilling to offer any real answers. His mask of political/racial ambivalence is a protection against his feelings of vulnerability in the world maybe? I think it may be!

All that bullshit dark nazi shit and he can't even give a straight fucking answer - what a crock of shit.

Warriors with the blood of honor work to benefit beings, not cower in idealogical theory and / or, worse, idealogical ambiguity.

Douglass P. : Stand for something damn it!

Entdinglichung

11 years 11 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Entdinglichung on June 28, 2012

one small mistake in the original posting, dried blood is a linguistically correct translation for Der Blutharsch but the name of the band refers to a specific category of early modern Swiss mercenaries who volunteered to fight in the most dangerous places of the battlefield (with the resulting high fatality rate) ... there is plenty of stuff on the right wing of the Gothic subculture and music scene on the webpage: http://www.geister-bremen.de/index.php (sorry, in German)

Arbeiten

11 years 11 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Arbeiten on June 28, 2012

This thread, along with the Hakim Bey one, is my fav. on libcom....

SKull

11 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by SKull on November 14, 2012

After reading all these fascinating comments it strikes me how weird it is that people insist on engaging in endless discussions without providing legitimate, or even any, definitions of the terms being hurled about. Most disagreements result from differing definitions which might make definitions fun in political debates.
I`ve therefore compiled a list of helpful definitions to make myself useful:

1: Totalitarianism: A state agenda or demand for detailed control over every citizen from birth to death. Runs from relatively benign to literally deciding who lives and dies and in what numbers. All modern states are totalitarian to some extent since it is not generally possible for it`s citizens to get away from most forms of state intrusion.
The more traditional totalitarian ideologies of Nazism, fascism and Communism are also explicitly terrorist, meaning that instilling fear in the populations to be controlled by any means necessary is a desirable goal, since this will make them even more easily controllable. In general therefore, the more fear based a state`s propaganda is the more totalitarian it is likely to be, given that terrorism is elevated in this way to a central doctrine of most, if not all, political ideologies.

2: Ideology: System of political, religious or cultural statements aiming to fundamentally reshape, improve or destroy a society, religion or culture in some form. Ideologies are almost always exclusive or even esoteric in nature as well as deliberately irrational, since central tenets of any ideology must usually be taken on faith. I would therefore classify all modern ideologies as secular religions since they function in almost exactly the same way, but with a pseudo scientific veneer rather than a theological one.

3: Fascism: Political ideology of corporatism based on totalitarianism and sometimes national mythology. Characterized by financial, economic, cultural and political centralization.
Fascism therefore has nothing to do with racism, but rather with class warfare by a financial/capitalist/industrialist oligarchy. It can also provide a mobilizing mythology for a state which is planning aggression by pointing to some monstrous threat, whether externally or internally. Such myths of besiegement is possibly the most consistent populist aspect of fascism, although the particular form it takes varies.

4: Racism: Acts or systematic attempts to use racial divisions and perceived racial differences and grievances for political gain. Attempting to divide a population along such lines or to treat them differently, like all western governments are doing, is therefore racism.
Calling someone a derogatory racial slur is on the other hand not racism unless it results in some perceivable political gain, for example by legitimizing a totalitarian government`s crackdowns on free speech to combat "racism" (it`s not racism, as I`ve demonstrated).
On the contrary the word `racism` implies systematic acts of policy. For example, it would not be racist to deny someone access to my pub because they were black, but an isolated act of racial prejudice. It would be racist to deny all black people access to my pub because they were black. Reversely it would be neither racism or an act of racial prejudice to deny a black person access to my pub because he had forgot to put on pants before leaving his home.
Because this seems to all get muddled together in what remains of public debate in the west I think it`s worth detailing the semantics of this particular issue
In short: individuals or groups thereof can be bigoted or racially prejudiced, but this is not racism. Nor is it or should it be a criminal offense. One cannot legislate away stupidity and hypocrisy and any attempts to do so will lead to even more totalitarian oppression than we already are encumbered with, as well as leading to an inevitable backlash as protest minded individuals are attracted to the prohibited expressions.
On the other hand, governments can be and usually are racist, since whatever their intentions may be all efforts to " stop racism" by government necessarily leads to more racial separation as a result of the government now treating people differently based solely on their ethnicity. This is the definition of bigotry and can lead nowhere meaningful.
Other institutions can also be racist if they employ policies that treat people differently depending on their race. This type of racism will be more localized and less egregious than the systematic racism of the state though.

5: Racial prejudice: Any perception that one`s own ethnic group is superior to some or all other ethnic groups. Most ethnic groups have some aspect of racial prejudice either in this direction or in a sense of the perceived inferiority of one`s own ethnic group. It is very politically incorrect for white people to have racial prejudices but not quite as bad for others. Although offensive and intellectually degrading racial prejudice is irrelevant. Any crimes committed as a result of such is already covered by the various criminal statutes which leaves the feeble and utterly insulting notion that people must be punished in some way if they offend each other. In fact, this assault on individual freedom of expression offends me so much I loudly demand strict and draconian punishment for anybody who promotes it! Unless a crime is being committed or you are the victim of state or institutionalized racism, walk away!

6: Nazism: Short for National Socialism. Economically and martially similar to the classic Italian fascism and beset by the same siege mentality, but different in most other ways, including racism, race theory, eugenics, blood mysticism and the generation of a synthetic popular culture and associated mythologies. Very different from American corporate fascism though and can probably not be confidently classified as a fascist ideology in the economic sense.

7: National Bolshevism: A branch of National Socialism developed by Otto Strasser, Gregor Strasser and Ernst Rohm. In some ways a reaction to the Fuhrer principle, it drew heavily on Leninism for it`s ideas and demanded a forceful conclusion to the social revolution Hitler had promised, rather than the increasing plutocracy of the Third Reich. Not as explicitly racist as the main variant of the German fascism, but this might be due to the relative disinterest of it`s proponents to issues of race.

8: Socialism: Ideology of collectivism which is a defining part of the more extreme totalitarian ideologies, including fascism, national socialism and communism. Through the efforts of the totalitarian state the aim is to redistribute wealth from the rich (middle class) to the poor. If mismanaged socialism leads over time to a reduced standard of living for everyone but a small elite at the top, as well as increased social divisions as the state proceeds to categorize all the citizens of a society after various criteria such as age, gender, ethnicity and productivity.
If well managed it can provide security for exposed groups of a population but in return these will become dependent on the state.

9: Communism: Same as socialism but more aggressive and ruthless. Also includes doctrines of terrorism in order to advance the political agenda of centralization which is at the core of the ideology.

10: Semitic: Group of languages, of which the most dominant is Arabic.

11: Anti Semitism: Nonsensical word first used in the 1860s to describe the German imperialists trying to establish an ideology of racial superiority similar to the British equivalent of the White Man`s Burden, by loudly insisting that Aryans were superior to "Semites". The phrase was given it`s current fallacious usage by Heinrich von Treitschke, a notable imperialist ideologue in the German Reich and a loud advocate for the immoral state; unbound in it`s quest for greatness by either moral constraints or custom.
When used by anti definitionists like the wonderful folks on this site the word means to be against Jews. Which should properly be called:

12: Anti Judaism. An older version is Jew hate, but since you can be opposed to something without hating it I think this is a bit rich. And since Judaism is not a race but a religion the entire thing here descends into the absurdities from which it came.

13: Jew hate. The act or principle of hating Jews.

It is of course perfectly fine to disagree with my definitions and propose alternatives instead, but having now presented my operative definitions you will of course immediately know why I can say the following:
Death in June is not a racist group since it derives no political gain from exploiting racial divisions even if it were doing this, for which I`ve seen no evidence. It might be fascist, but if it is it`s not fascist in the economic or political sense of this ideology, although perhaps in the cultural populist sense by using symbols associated with previous incarnations of fascism. Since it`s not racist it also cannot be Nazi since racism was an integral part of Nazism, which adequately answers the question in the article`s title based on my definitions.
In many ways it would be more meaningful to ask if DiJ is a totalitarian band. But since they`re not in a position of government this is probably nonsense too. Only government can be totalitarian.

PS When it comes to symbols, images and other cultural elements associated with Nazism, racism or fascism they usually aren`t, or weren`t before they were misused.
The biggest reason for this is of course that all political ideologies use symbols in their propaganda which then taints this symbol afterwards. Many Celtic and Nordic crosses had for example been in use for centuries before proto Nazis began appropriating them; The rose had been a symbol of love, wisdom and secrets until it was abused by various socialist movements and the star, hammer and sickle respectively has symbolized man, God and order, among other things, before being seized by Communism. Depending on who you talk to all these symbols can be offensive due to the connotations they inspire and the ideologies we falsely believe them to represent.
This offense is usually highly contextual though, as is the case with the "Totenkopf" someone linked to. It of course isn`t the Totenkopf at all, but the warning displayed on poisonous materials or the rooms in which said were being used in Germany during the war. Therefore it was visible on the cannisters of Zyklon B used in the concentration camps and in the rooms used for disinfecting. Almost identical warning signs can be found on disinfectants today. The gas chambers reported in some of the Polish camps did not have this warning on the door, for obvious reasons. Due to the highly selective symbol sensitivity of many people such images are perfectly OK in a history book or on Discovery Channel but not on the sleeve of a record or tattooed on an arm. This sensitivity seems much more potent regarding Nazi symbolism than Communist symbolism, which causes it to more or less completely disappear among people on the left, even though Communism in total has killed at least 20 times as many people as Nazi Germany ever did .
But the main thing is that symbols are nothing more than cultural artifacts and using them doesn`t really say anything, although symbol illiterates easily believe that it does. Unless the use of symbols is accompanied by explanatory political statements we have no way of knowing what the intention of the symbology was and should probably avoid speculation.

B_Reasonable

11 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by B_Reasonable on November 14, 2012

@SKull

You must be wilfully blind not to see that Death in June's use of fascist references are either a marketing ploy to convincingly appear as a fascist band or that they simply a fascist band, The net effect being the same -- the promotion of fascist ideology. Your attempt to defend them based on the fact that they make little reference to fascist political positions would have been untenable if you had included 'apoliteic' amongst your "helpful definitions". Please see here for more on why Death in June is a Nazi band: Neo-folk is fascist folk

Arbeiten

11 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Arbeiten on November 14, 2012

SKull

But the main thing is that symbols are nothing more than cultural artifacts and using them doesn`t really say anything, although symbol illiterates easily believe that it does. Unless the use of symbols is accompanied by explanatory political statements we have no way of knowing what the intention of the symbology was and should probably avoid speculation.

If you believe symbols on their own have no meaning without accompanying text, I think it is fair to say it is actually you who are suffering from a case of symbol illiteracy. (let's ignore for the second that it is exactly in imbuing things with meaning that they become understood exactly as 'cultural' artefacts as apposed to merely inexplicable things).

Your trying to muddy the water between other images of skull and crossbones and totenkopf is also a cheap slight of hand which isn't going to fool anyone.

Within your past paragraph there is also huge logical inconsistency where on the one hand you seem to suggest that the skull and cross bones symbolizes something that one can read without text (this is a poison, this is dangerous, whatever) while on the other hand you have said that it is impossible to understand symbols (and in fact we should avoid trying to understand symbols!) if they are not accompanied by a text.

knot

10 years 9 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by knot on September 2, 2013

Can't tell whether their Facebook should be regarded as being insightful political-wise, but this is a picture from it: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/793858_10151496520860039_764321381_o.jpg

LOL

evo76

10 years 4 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by evo76 on February 9, 2014

If this, in social realm, acts like nazi stuff than this is a nazi stuff. I don't give a heck what kind of ideas artists are forcing into their products. If this atract bunch on neo-nazi boneheads giving them an aesthetical platform of social unification, than this is more than enough for me.

Fozzie

5 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Fozzie on November 14, 2018

National Action is a UK based neo-nazi group which was proscribed by the government after it celebrated the killing of MP Jo Cox by a far right sympathiser.

A lot of fuss in the press has been made about Claudia Patatas and her partner Adam Thomas, the National Action members whose baby had the middle name of Adolf.

Patatas and Thomas were convicted of belonging to a proscribed group last Monday and await sentencing.

What has now emerged is that Patatas had links with Death In June and a number of other neofolk groups:

https://harsherreality.tumblr.com/

That site includes pictures of Patatas posing with Douglas P and states that her previous partner was Death In June's tour driver.

Patatas also apparently took the cover photos of a few Death In June releases.

This raises a number of awkward questions for the dwindling number of Death In June fans who still insist that the group is not political, and is just fascist cosplay for people who want to wank off about the "darker side of humanity".

Fozzie

5 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Fozzie on November 14, 2018

Actually - is it worth me doing this as a short News piece?

R Totale

5 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by R Totale on November 14, 2018

I'd say yes.

freemind

5 years 7 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by freemind on November 14, 2018

Among the pictures of the National Action scum are pictures of them holding up National Anarchism propaganda.Retarded cunts!We constantly have to dismiss misconceptions about Anarchism without these class traitors spouting there twisted shit.Death in June are Nazi and a mate told me this in 86 when he told me of Skrewdriver.Crisis were quality but it just shows how some people are very malleable re;politics and how Anarchists need to be stringent and disciplined organisation wise as do AntiFascists or we leave ourselves vulnerable.

R Totale

5 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by R Totale on November 19, 2018

The Quietus have picked up on the Patatas angle: http://thequietus.com/articles/25682-fascism-underground-music-racism-industrial-black-metal-noise

Fozzie

5 years 6 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Fozzie on November 20, 2018

Good to see - be interesting to see how the series of articles there develops too.

Datacide piece also:

https://datacide-magazine.com/national-action-neo-nazi-terror-group-connections-to-neofolk-scene/

Mike Harman

5 years 4 months ago

In reply to by libcom.org

Submitted by Mike Harman on January 30, 2019

Midwest Unrest

The name "Death in June" refers to June 30, 1934, the "Night of Long Knives", when Hitler had Ernst Roehm and other leaders of the SA (nazi stormtroopers) murdered. Roehm and his faction were highly critical of Hitler policies (make no mistake-they were still fascists) and are associated with a branch of fascist ideology National Bolshevism, spearheaded by Gregor Strasser. The National Bolsheviks argued for a more socialist version of fascism and criticized Hitler\rquote s reliance on industrial capitalists. (Today, this branch of fascism is called the Third Position.

This should be corrected really. National Bolshevism was from people like Karl Radek in the early '20s - mostly an attempt 'from the left' to mobilise nationalist Germans against French and English imperialism to protect Russian interests.

Strasserism emerged around the same time but had different routes.

Modern third positionists draw from both - especially when you get to people like Dugin or 'National Anarchism'.