Live updates and discussion from the Egyptian uprising which began on 25 January 2011.
From the Egyptian Chronicles blog...
http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2011/01/jan25-is-getting-serious.html
The January 25th protest is getting serious attention more and more. More Facebook pages and groups are calling for the #25 Jan and more political groups are going to participate in the huge event "They are about 17 groups".Many are praying that it be the start of a new thing in Egypt. Now if you are interested in following the protest on twitter to know its updates then follow this hash tag (#Jan25)
Surprisingly “Salafist movement for reform” aka “HAFS” has announced that it will participate in the event , this is the first time a Salafist movement participates in something like this considering the Salafist believes and teachings. I have my fear and my suspicion which I will keep it to myself. I know that this particular movement has its political believes still ....
The Mahalla workers will participate too , you may remember how they made their own day on the 6th April from couple of years ago.
Another huge surprise or even change in this protest is its location in Cairo and Giza, it is no longer Down town or Nile corniche but rather at the famous Gamaat Al Doul street in Mohendessin , the heart of the middle class in Giza !! The other places are : Cairo university in Giza , Dawaran Shubra and Dawaran Al Mataria in Cairo.
The NDP will participate too , of course in pro-regime protests of love …etc. May be this will be a showdown between the regime and the opposition , the real opposition in Egypt on who has got the word in the street. There are rumors that the MOI will launch its thugs to create chaos and violence , all what I know for sure is that the police will not enjoy their holiday because they will have to work. Personally I think the regime will let that day pass peacefully in order not to push the people in to another degree of anger , the world is now watching the Arab countries post-Tunisian revolution in an anticipation.
The Egyptians in London are going to protest next Sunday January 23, 2011 at 1 PM in front of the Egyptian embassy in London , if you are there and interested in joining them then here is the Egyptian embassy address : 26 South Street, Westminster, London W1K 1DW. There will be also insh Allah a protest in Bologna , Italy. It will be held on the 23rd of January at 12 PM at Piazza del Nettuno. Also on Sunday there will be a protest held at 1 PM in front of the Egyptian mission to the UN HQ in New York at at 304 East 44th Street. Now it will not be the last capital in the world that will witness a protest in front of the Egyptian embassy or mission on that coming Sunday because there will be a protest in our embassy in Madrid at 1 PM too.
Our great Tunisian brothers are going to protest in solidarity with the Egyptian people in front of the Egyptian embassy next January 25, 2011. Also our dear Jordanian brothers are going to protest inn front of the Egyptian embassy next January 25 ,2011. Our brothers in Yemen sent a solidarity email to the admin of “We are all Khaled Said” page.
Just like El General in Tunisia the Egyptian rap singers and bands are making songs for the #Jan25 just like this one by rapper Ahmed Rock.There are lots of video clips on YouTube made by activists to encourage the people to participate in the protest of #Jan25.
Comments
I'm very dubious about these
I'm very dubious about these ideas and sentiments of "Arab" revolutions and these revolts as fundamentally "Arab" phenomena. I think that events in Tunisia have far more in common with working class struggle in Britain, France, etc., than any "Arab" specficity and to keep banging on about "Arab" this and "Arab" that, tends to emphasise division rather than any communality of the class struggle.
Egypt is obviously not Tunisia and the working class in Egypt, the only force in this country which has wrung concessions out of this regime, needs to be careful not to be drawn into exposing its forces on unfavourable grounds. Previously the working class here has known when to fight and when to withdraw.
Next Tuesday's "revolution day", announced well in advance, while one can never say never, could well be unfavourable ground. The divisions in Egypt, not least of the religious type, are more powerful than Tunisia - as are the security forces. The latter would have already received - and will continue to recieve - the advice and help of the the security and intelligence forces of the USA and Britain at least. I doubt that the working class here are strong enough to take all these on at the moment.
Egypt's frustrated young wait
Egypt's frustrated young wait for their lives to begin, and dream of revolution
I will wait to see what
I will wait to see what happens with this one. It looks like yet another rich kid internet fantasist's version of politics.
liveblog Quote: 1125 GMT:
liveblog
Updates on Egyptian
Updates on Egyptian Chronicles blog
Someone on twitter just said
Someone on twitter just said "10,000 in Mahalla", also that a police cordon was broken and the police were surrounded by protesters (which is apparently a first).
Unrest in the Middle East:
Unrest in the Middle East: live updates (Guardian)
Egypt braced for 'day of revolution' protests (Guardian)
Police Day protests in Egypt (al-bab.com)
I won't be able to do any updates until tonight so if anyone feels like following this...
In Cairo between 20,000 and
In Cairo between 20,000 and 30,000 cops have been deployed. According to the cops, 15,000 demonstrators have gathered. Outside Cairo, there have been demos as well, most notably in Alexandria, in Assouan and Assiout, in several towns in the Nile Delta and in Ismaïliya on the Suez canal. And in the North of the Sinai peninsula, hundreds of people have cut a road between el-Arich and Rafah, near the Gaza strip border, using burning tyres.
Sources: Le Monde and Midi-Libre.
This doesn't say much, of course - no idea about the class composition of the demonstrators, for example; but it shows how widespread it is, even though some of the demos seem to just be a couple of hundred or so. Still, early days yet....
Twitter again, says water
Twitter again, says water cannons were used in central Cairo.
Also that twitter itself has been blocked in Egypt today, a few people there are managing to send stuff out via internet proxies. This is what annoys me when people talk about protest via twitter or facebook being 'decentralised' when it's exactly the opposite.
Most people in Egypt don't
Most people in Egypt don't even have Twitter or Facebook. Still good that so many people are out. Especially interesting about Mahalla.
There's loads in the Al Ahram
There's loads in the Al Ahram stream, but I've just taken the last hour reported, for brevity's sake.
AL Ahram: Live updates: Opposition groups protest on Police Day
From the Guardian
From the Guardian stream
What's interesting about this is that the Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) announced before today that while they (grudgingly) had decided to support the stated aims of the demonstration, they weren't going to mobilise their supporters for it.
Given that they've been up until now, seen as the biggest beast in the jungle in terms of getting numbers out on the streets, to allow a 20,000 (?) strong confrontational demo, openly against the regime like this, to go ahead without them being seen as a major mover or power within it, is major tactical blunder on their part. Which may allow the movement momentum to grow outside of their sinister grip.
ocelot wrote: What's
ocelot
They did the same thing around the time of Mahalla/ 6th April protests a few years back. The Ikhwan are basically like your garden variety Trot/Leninist group (in fact, in terms of organizational structure etc. the Ikhwan are a Lenist party). If they can't control the movement they won't work closely with it.
Thanks to everyone for the
Thanks to everyone for the updates.
From the Guardian:
Thousands protest against President Hosni Mubarak - video
Egypt protests are breaking new ground
Cairo protesters in violent clashes with police
From Al Jazeera:
Egypt anti-government protests escalate
Egypt update, January 25
Egypt update, January 25 (al-bab.com)
Ahram Online live
Ahram Online live updates
Enduring America
Enduring America liveblog
Revolt continues into the
Revolt continues into the night-Good resource for whole middle east here:-
http://www.mideastyouth.com/2011/01/25/egypt-on-the-verge-of-several-days-of-rage/
Riot cops chased by
Riot cops chased by protesters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc000YDVY5o
Egyptian Chronicles blog: 'a
Egyptian Chronicles blog: 'a real new hope'
Cairo slideshow
From the Guardian live
From the Guardian live updates
Khawaga wrote: I will wait to
Khawaga
Shame in your face, Khawaga! The class struggle surprises revolutionaries once again! ;)
no1
Amazing.
More videos on CEMB
[youtube]2RUo3XzQ4P4[/youtube]
More videos on CEMB thread
The opinion of an Egyptian on that thread: "If it gets nasty, it will get nasty for Mubarak - the police and army will side with the people."
no1 wrote: Riot cops chased
no1
Wow when I was staying in Cairo a few months ago I was in a hostel on the very street where this is being filmed, so that is pretty weird to watch. Cairo university is very close by so I'm guessing many of these demonstrators will be students.
So I was checking the TV news
So I was checking the TV news at around midnight (GMT) last night and Sky had some confusingly mixed recent and live feed footage of the final assault by the cops to clear Tahrir square. Looks like it was all over (in Tahrir) by about quarter past, that would have been 02:15 Cairo time.
The regime's reaction is predictably to ban all demonstrations and gatherings (BBC). Naturally Mubarak is also trying to blame the Muslim Brotherhood, even though they weren't there. Presumably mainly for US and EU consumption.
When Donald Rumsfeld is dead
When Donald Rumsfeld is dead and forgotten, people will still be using his known unknowns and unknown unknowns distinction. Such a wonderful phrase from such an abysmal human being.
The Arabist: An Egyptian unknown unknown, revealed
truncated for the sake of the thread, but the whole thing is defo worth a read imo.
On twitter Quote: Egyptian
On twitter
Fourth Egyptian dies as a
Fourth Egyptian dies as a result of protests
124 injuries in Cairo area during Tuesday protests
Uneasy calm prevails in Egypt
Uneasy calm prevails in Egypt (Al Jazeera)
liveblog Quote: 1255 GMT:
liveblog
Protests in Egypt - live
Protests in Egypt - live updates (Guardian)
This week in the Middle East
The Guardian reporter in
The Guardian reporter in Cairo got nicked last night, but managed to conceal his dictaphone (they make em small these days) and managed to record some story and interviews in the back of the police truck. Check out the audio at the link.
Guardian: Egypt protests: 'We ran a gauntlet of officers beating us with sticks'
Ed wrote: Khawaga wrote: I
Ed
It really is. I hope the algerians bros and sis start too rocking their casbah soon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx-277MRYuM&feature=related
Ed wrote: Shame in your face,
Ed
I can say that I am very happy to eat my words ;)
Quote: I am very happy to eat
You'll have to take them with a pinch of salt next time...
http://blogs.abcnews.com/poli
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/01/white-house-declines-to-say-if-us-still-supports-egypts-mubarak.html
Pictures from today
http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/26/5925075-thousands-protest-against-president-hosni-mubarak-in-egypt
updates from
updates from today
From the BBC: Video: Fresh
From the BBC:
Video: Fresh protests in Egyptian Cities
In pictures: Egypt protests
Who are the opposition movements and what are their demands?
Egypt protests: Your stories
Mohammed Abdul Fatah, Alexandria
Zakaria Mohyeldin, Cairo
From Egyptian Chronicles
From Egyptian Chronicles (follow the link for videos from Suez):
Suez is a war zone again
Zeinobia
Also from Egyptian
Also from Egyptian Chronicles:
January 25: reactions
Zeinobia
liveblog Quote: 2235 GMT:
liveblog
From the Guardian: Egyptian
From the Guardian:
Egyptian anti-government protests – in pictures
Cairo protests were 'beyond what I imagined'
Egypt protests continue into second day despite ban and police presence
Egypt blocks social media websites in attempted clampdown on unrest
Video from Al Jazeera earlier
Video from Al Jazeera earlier this afternoon
The video seems to play down today's protests, possibly because the report was made before they really got going. Al Jazeera has come under criticism for its coverage though.
Video: 'Egyptian Revolution
Video: 'Egyptian Revolution Jan 25th 2011 - take what is yours!'
Videos from today's protests
From the liveblog:
January 25 slideshow
January 25 slideshow
Updates on Suez Zeinobia
Updates on Suez
Zeinobia
liveblog
Guardian live updates
I hate to put a downer on
I hate to put a downer on things, but I've yet to see any significant class aspects to any of the Middle Eastern movements so far. I hope I'm wrong about this, but these seem like liberal political movements that may well aid the smooth functioning of capital in the countries concerned. I doubt that the national bourgeoisies are going to cry too much if less corrupt, less nepotistic, more parliamentarian governments replace the dictatorships. Anyone heard of any work place seizures, mass strikes, land expropriations, etc.?
I saw this: "Another report
I saw this: "Another report claims protesters stormed and looted a food co-operative saying, "This is our money, these are our goods."", on EA Worldview Liveblog, possibly somewhere in the quoted parts above. That seems like a bit of class aspect coming into the picture.
The fact that there was big street action in Mahallah on 25th January is also significant: that was the center of militant strike action in 2006. In fact, one of the opposition groups is named after the day of that workers' revolt: April 6th.
Class aspects are not very open, visible, explicit - yet; but they are there.
RedEd wrote: I hate to put a
RedEd
Here are some extracts from an article I've posted on the Tunisia thread. I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in the article as a whole but I think the bits below are uncontroversial.
The IMT
It's probably true that the demands being made are much less radical than the means being used.
RedEd wrote: I hate to put a
RedEd
Uncle Charlie sez:
The German Ideology
Second. Read the detail of what's on the Sidi Bouzid thread - you will find accounts, precisely, of mass strikes, work place seizures and the setting up of self-governing councils in towns from which police, army and RCD placemen have withdrawn. If you haven't seen, it's because your eyes are closed.
I wouldn't say that capital is "functioning smoothly" today in Sidi Bouzid (general strike) or Suez (all out war, by the sounds).
But, as I previously outlined on the Sidi Bouzid thread, this sectarian dogmatist method of "backwards apriorism" - that is an apriori categorisation of an unfolding revolutionary process by its assumed future result/defeat - is both invalid and objectively counter-revolutionary. If any existing living revolutionary process is judged, by the light of your infallible crystal ball, to be essentially bourgeois, then we are motivated from the outset to want to see it's defeat as soon as possible so we can get the alienated pleasure of saying "i told you so".
More fundamentally, you fail entirely to grasp the nature of revolution or the dialectic of power. Capital is a social relation of command and compulsion. It simply cannot function (smoothly or otherwise) without a working structure of "power-over" power (english is such a shit language for politics...). In the current historical conjuncture (and we can argue about how far back the beginning of this goes) it is not practically possible to overthrow an existing autocratic or dictatorial regime without the mobilisation of the working class.
Beyond a certain stage then, the problem of social change, from the perspective of the bourgeoisie, becomes a problem of couunter-revolution - how to get the genie back into the bottle? How to reassert the established power of a new state order and crush the mobilisation of an insurgent working class so as to rob it of its autonomy and agency and transform it back into a chained force whose power-to is once again engaged in the valorisation of capital.
But to take the other side, the problem of social change from a proletarian point of view is precisely how to oppose the process of the recomposition of state and capitalist class power, to defend embryonic initiatives of self-organisation and governance, the process of radicalisation of perspectives and the transformation of the street slogan of "bread and freedom" into a living revolutionary programme.
Police post in city of Suez
Police post in city of Suez burnt down as angry protests continue to erupt (Al Jazeera)
Egypt: exaggeration or
Egypt: exaggeration or denial? (al-bab.com)
Mubarak's radio silence
Arabist
liveblog Quote: 0900 GMT:
liveblog
Guardian live
Guardian live updates
On Egypt's second day of
On Egypt's second day of protests, Cairo in a state of chaos
I suspect the second to last
I suspect the second to last para in the above is actually supposed to read "Egypt is a big country...". i.e. we're not Tunisia because, er... Tunisia is small and Egypt is big (so there!).
But of course there are differences between the two countries, apart from size, and one of them is the difference in state control of the media. Al Ahram (The Pyramids) is the largest newspaper in Egypt and the paper of record, analogous to the New York Times or The Times (London). It is also majority owned by the state. However one of the differences with Tunisia is that the Mubarak regime has allowed a relatively loose rein on the press, to allow critical voices to blow off steam, to act as a sort of "ventilation system", as one commentator put it. All the while, while maintaining absolute control of the streets via brutal zero-tolerance policing.
The contradictions between that "dual-action" model at times like these, however, do become more glaring as the following article from the (english) Ahram Online, demonstrates (NB there is no guarantee that this article would make it to the printed Arabic version on the streets of Cairo, but still...)
Reporter's first hand account of Egypt police brutality
RedEd wrote: Anyone heard of
RedEd
There was the mass squatting in Jordan a few days ago over the delayed housing projects.
In Tunisia there were reports of an insurance company where the workers forced the boss out bare footed, some of the initial looting appears to have been quite communal as well. I think some civil servants were also sacking their bosses - of course this is also being reported as people 'cleansing' workplaces of people connected to the old regime, but i'm sure there are other grievances involved even if that's the main reason.
It's hard to tell how widespread any of this has been in Tunisia and elsewhere - that may be because it's not happening to any great extent, it might also be that these kinds of things are not being reported.
The mainstream media has no interest in reporting actual class struggle, and it seems likely that the people on twitter and facebook are more likely to be the from the liberal pro-democracy crowd who may also not be all that interested in class struggle.
But we also know that there were big strikes in Mahalla in Egypt in 2008 (see http://libcom.org/tags/egypt), and I think a large strike in a mining region of Tunisia last year as well.
So while there's a danger in getting overexcited, there's also a danger in allowing the media, and the 'citizen journalists' to gloss over any class content and impose a purely liberal narrative on things. Probably it's a bit of both when it comes down to it.
I'd say the parallel nature of the protests, and the fact there's been things happening on a relatively large scale in Europe as well the past year or two makes this feel like it's potentially more significant than most of the events of the past 20-30 years, if not a lot longer than that.
ocelot wrote: But of course
ocelot
I am not 100% sure of this, but I was always under the impression that at the English weekly there had been some sort of journalists buy-out, and it was an independent company, no longer connected to the parent. The tone is certainly very different from the daily.
Devrim
Totally agree with ocelot's
Totally agree with ocelot's well-put response (post 50) to RedEd's
(post 47).
Looting of supermarkets and burning of police stations in Egypt are clearly not something that
Plus in Tunisia there are some signs of the dispossessed seizing public space and there seem to be some elements of dual power situations. Sure, we should be on the look out for problems, but I don't think the world rulers' desire that "everything must change so that nothing changes" is going to have as smooth a ride as they'd wish. It's getting more and more interesting by the hour.
Updates on the Egyptian
Updates on the Egyptian Chronicles blog
Zeinobia
Samotnaf wrote: but I don't
Samotnaf
Agree. And on this; ElBaradei has returned (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12300164) expenting to lead the protest (on behalf of capital, i suppose) and he's already noticed it's not gonna be an easy road.
For the ones that suggested a similarity with Portugal: There's no Spinola i think neither in Tunisia nor in Egypt, aside of the fact that he couldn't keep in power.
Funnily enough turbocapitalism has't turned the world only in an even more awful place than it has always been but has turned its balance too in incredibly unstable and fragile one.
It would have been Kaled
It would have been Kaled Said's 29th birthday today, apparently.
http://twitpic.com/3tsuhc
Nic pic re tomorrow's demo,
Nic pic re tomorrow's demo, #J28
http://www.artificialeyes.tv/files/WLE_01_exiledsurfer.jpg
No surprises that the Ikhwan have finally tried to jump onto the train. This from today's Guardian Egypt stream
Personal opinion, given that it's day 3 and it's still going like gangbusters without them (some reports from Suez that they've moved on from burning down cop shops to buringing down the fire dept. to stop them putting out the cop shops), they may be a little behind the curve at this stage. But I guess we'll see how tomorrow goes.
edit: the other graphics on http://www.artificialeyes.tv/blog/2 (the source of the above pic) are definitely worth checking out two. A couple of pretty brave guys there in the other 2 #J28 pix. Kudos.
p.s. #sidibouzid, #j25, #j28, looks like we've moved from colours revolutions to hash-tag ones.
from Guardian
from Guardian stream
Go on Suez. They've burnt down the cop shops, the government buildings and the fire station and now they're shooting off the fire extinguishers in celebration. I love it.
SHE2I2, a blog with articles
SHE2I2, a blog with articles and photographs on the protests, by someone, apparently a journalist in Cairo, who lists "anarchosyndicalism" and "libertarian socialism" among her interests in the profile. Might be interesting to follow (I found it through the EA Worldview liveblog).
Interview with Hossam
Interview with Hossam el-Hamalawy (Egyptian Trotskyist who runs the 3arabawy blog. He's run some really interesting articles in the past on labour stuff in Egypt and regarding that stuff he's pretty on the ball..
From the Guardian Egypt
From the Guardian
Egypt braces itself for biggest day of protests yet
Egypt protest leaflets distributed in Cairo give blueprint for mass action
liveblog Quote: 0017 GMT:
liveblog
(No subject)
[youtube]_ng43rGZgvg[/youtube]
Quote: 2325 GMT: Several
This is coming up on twitter as well. Looks like it could end up a full blackout.
Just saw this on The Guardian
Just saw this on The Guardian CIF thread:
There's apparently one or two
There's apparently one or two providers still running in Egypt, and people are setting up proxies to deal with the blockage of particular sites. This was a couple of hours ago though so they may just not have got to them yet.
Internet in 5 star hotels also still up apparently.
Just saw something flash past in twitter about ham radio, that's next to impossible to shut down, but it's very limited, better than nothing though!
http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelFelch/status/30863272609587200
There's also been reports that police agents were going 'round all the main squares overnight covering cars with petrol - so they can set fire to them today and arrest everyone in the vicinity.
This site just went up http://25january.tv/ - not a lot there yet, but just in case it develops.
Solidarity demos in the
Solidarity demos in the US:
http://www.eacusa.org/news/13-eacusa-activities/56-protests-map-in-the-us-support-the-egyptian-people-.html
Train being blocked on the
Train being blocked on the 25th: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Z3yuPlQv-sU#
More on the internet
More on the internet shutdown. Follow the link for updates and comments.
Egypt leaves the Internet
liveblog Quote: 1138 GMT:
liveblog
A fairly random selection of
A fairly random selection of twitter feeds covering the protests
http://twitter.com/eacusa
http://twitter.com/jan25live
http://twitter.com/Jan25Voices
http://twitter.com/SherineT
http://twitter.com/NicRobertsonCNN
http://twitter.com/Farrah3m
From the Guardian Live
From the Guardian
Live updates
Map of the protests
Live Q&A: Middle East protests
Protests in Suez – in pictures
Guardian stream says third
Guardian stream says third day of protests in Jordan too.
Information lockdown in Egypt
Information lockdown in Egypt (al-bab.com)
from Guardian
from Guardian stream
From the liveblog Quote: 1310
From the liveblog
Al Jazeera English - live
Al Jazeera English - live stream
Just now this was reporting demonstrations in Istanbul and Ankara in support of the Egyptians
Al Jazeera liveblog
Suez police station has
Suez police station has fallen. Alexandria police out of gas and surrounded by superior force, pleading for mercy.
Guardian stream
edit: Alexandria police have surrendered.
from the guardian
from the guardian feed:
Just seem an armoured vechile
Just seem an armoured vechile knock someone over then reverse back over them on a cario 6 oct bridge http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
The police have been defeated
The police have been defeated in both Suez and Alexandria, reports are also in of NDP headquarters stormed in Mansoura and Dumya. No news has been heard from Sheikh Zuwayid, Port Said or many of the other places that we've heard from in last days. Presumably at least partly due to communication difficulties with the internet shut down.
The reports from other cities suggest that there has been a concentration of police forces and materiél in Cairo, to make the battle for the capital the make or break play. Certainly they shown no signs of running out of gas like in Alexandria. It seems the other towns and cities have been left to the local forces to defend on a "best endeavours" basis.
But so far, no sign of the army. In this context, no sign is a good sign.
Seeing that Suez is a
Seeing that Suez is a garrison town then what is happening there could be significant for the role of the army. Last night al-Jazeerah on the spot reported hundreds of demonstrators on the streets at 9pm (GMT) and then at 10 o'clock it was thousands. That intensification seems to have continued.
Given that earlier I expressed some doubts about the working class being swamped by the forces of democracy or religion then this is not turning out to be the case at the moment. There were reports of the working class area of Mahalla being isolated (not attacked) by the forces of repression but there has since been reports of outbursts here as well as the working class district of Mansoura.
The expression of revolt here is becoming quite problematic for imperialism, particularly the US.
uh-oh... spoke too soon,
uh-oh... spoke too soon, perhaps.
be careful what you wish for...
http://english.aljazeera.net/
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
A few bits and pieces, none of this confirmed:
Some people apparently trying to push armoured vehicles off a bridge.
Some police have apparently taken off uniforms and switched sides.
Right now on Al Jazeera there's ceasefire for Friday prayers - police taking a break as well.
Also reports of the army refusing to tear gas people, and potentially a tank that switched sides.
At least one protester killed today.
There's a 6pm curfew, I think it's pushing 6pm in Egypt.
Police are at the door of the
Police are at the door of the Al Jazeera office in Cairo about to shut it down while they're doing the live coverage - see link in previous comment.
according to
according to http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,742179,00.html the cops aren't able to stop the demonstration to reach the central Tahrir Square in Cairo
Al Jazeera coverage now has
Al Jazeera coverage now has two different police trucks turned over and on fire near the edge of the bridge, looks like people may push it over the edge.
Also saw tanks and trucks driving through the streets, maybe 20 or so (camera kept being moved around while this was happening 'cos they were trying to keep it out of the way of any police spotters), but they don't appear to have stopped anywhere near where the filming is, except the one that's turned over, although not sure which are police and which are military.
from Guardian
from Guardian stream
It must be Friday. The president is due to address the nation. It's deja vue all over again...
Quote: 4.23pm: TV pictures
and once again we teeter in the balance
Al Jareeza reporting at least
Al Jareeza reporting at least 20 tanks enter Suez and the NDP headquaters confirmed as on fire, not the main building at present. Lots of sounds of explosions and gunshots in the background
Quote: 4.45pm: A downtown
It's that M&M moment again. Mutiny or Massacre? What's it to be?
Meanwhile, in the idiot's
Meanwhile, in the idiot's corner...
BBC
"Wir müssen ordnung haben". Scumbag.
One thing: if Suez it's more
One thing: if Suez it's more or less seized by the insurgents, the bastards have to be freaking out about the canal's safety, ain't it?
on the canal
on the canal issue:
BBC
Al Jazeera
Al Jazeera liveblog
Liking that.
edit:
BBC
Does that mean it's a mutiny?
Does that mean it's a mutiny? Or have they been told to stand down - as apparently the Tunisian military were told?
Also, Mubarak is taking an awful long time to make that speech - maybe it's being rewritten since nobody is observing the curfew.
Well it doesn't look like
Well it doesn't look like it's going to be a massacre, which was the big worry. Hopefully it stays that way. As for the rest, I guess we'll see soon enough.
News from Port Said
Guardian
no1 wrote: Does that mean
no1
That's what i was asking myself right now. Probably a combination of both. Let's hope the people can push the military on their side.
wheres the muslim brotherhood
wheres the muslim brotherhood in all this? BBC says very little involvement beyond that they endorse what is happening. is that true?
Are people conscripted into
Are people conscripted into the Egyptian Army?
Re the MB. I could be
Re the MB. I could be completely off-whack here, but my impression is, despite the big bad boogyman status given then in the imagination of the Western media, they're just not big enough to really dominate anything on this scale.
some more from the beeb, including news from Sheik Zuweid at last:
Martin O Neill wrote: Are
Martin O Neill
Yes. A not inconsiderable factor.
edit:
Guardian
ocelot wrote: Well it doesn't
ocelot
Yes absolutely. The thing is, if the army are functional but have decided not to carry out a bloodbath, then we're probably looking at the next gang of scumbags taking over, like they tried in Tunisia. But if it's a mutiny and army command have lost control, then we're looking at a revolution in an 80 million country of enormous strategic importance.
There is some mention of them
There is some mention of them earlier on in the thread. Basically, they had no involvement at first. When it became clear how big it was, they said they endorsed it, but haven't had much influence. However, some of the media already has tried to paint them as being somehow responsible, raising the Islamist bogeyman
Yeah, it certainly wont
Yeah, it certainly wont surprise me if the media starts making those kinda noises..
Interesting to see tony blair talking about how these forces of change ought to be "managed" to have a 'good' outcome.
Quote: Are people conscripted
Yes. Most people have to do 3 years of service in either the police or military. The riot cops are conscripts; urban poor and peasants from all over Egypt. Fraternizing with the conscripts is extremely important (which I believe happened in Suez).
Steven. wrote: When it became
Steven.
Tthe muslim brotherhood is the great foil in politics throughout the mid east and north africa, an enemy when in need, a friend when in need. The MB in Egypt now does not involve itself in any type of violent demos, but tries to be very respectable. Mubarek will very quickly have to start making concessions to contain this and I wouldn't be surprised if the MB would become a recipient, or at least looked to to help bring it under control. My sense is that islamicist politics of this sort has run its course though.
The Muslim Brotherhood is the
The Muslim Brotherhood is the best organized and largest political group in Egypt apart from the Army and the NDP. It is likely that they will have much more say in a post-Mubarak/ non-Army govt.
So what is the situation like
So what is the situation like in Mahalla? Has there been any strikes?
Quote: unconfirmed reports
I just got this on my Facebook live feed. And that the Army is firing on the police.
Quote: Updated 1:30 p.m.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/01/military-presence-in-cairo-amid-growing-protests.html
Some commentator on AJ said
Some commentator on AJ said the soldiers on the streets in Cairo are from the Presidential army, not the regular army. May be more loyal?
More than 800 wounded in
More than 800 wounded in Cairo, some with bullet wounds.
The offices of the ruling NDP in Cairo and several other cities in Egypt set on fire or attacked.
Thousands of protesters try to storm foreign ministry, state TV building in Cairo.
Military deployed in Egyptian cities.
Presidental Guard unit deployed in cairo
Al Jazeera
around a dozen police vans
around a dozen police vans near ndp headquaters set on fire
I've never seen such a
I've never seen such a hopeless press conference as the current White House press briefing. The structure of regimes in the Middle East that the US has supported since the Iranian Revolution is collapsing before our eyes and these clowns don't even know what to say, and yet are prepared to have a press conference to broadcast that fact to the world. The following tweet reported on the Guardian stream just about sums it up:
not with a bang, but a whimper...
Video from earlier today
Video from earlier today
The CEMB thread is also worth
The CEMB thread is also worth following
ocelot wrote: It must be
ocelot
...and I've got back in and I'm struggling to make sense of the days events all over again.
Re the effect of the internet shutdown - I caught part of a phone interview this afternoon on BBC news with a random office worker in Cairo. He said he turned up at the office this morning and was sent home as without the internet there was no work to do. So he went to Friday prayers and then joined the protests.
From the Guardian live updates:
From the liveblog:
More from the
More from the liveblog
So Mubarak basically said
So Mubarak basically said "I'm gonna fire all my underlings and crack protester skulls."
So that was Mubarak
So that was Mubarak addressing the nation. He's sacked the cabinet (big whup) but is intent on ploughing on. They don't call him the rhinocerous for nothing. But this changes bugger all, essentially.
From the Guardian live
From the Guardian live updates
There are at least two
There are at least two possibilities for the outcome I see here.
1. The protesters win. The streets don't quiet down for months as whoever gets to Mubarak first tries to figure out how to form a new government. Either there will be a new dictator who won't last long, or a bourgeois "democracy" will be put in place that tries to accommodate the other parties in an uneasy compromise.
2. Mubarak wins and becomes even more dictatorial. His regime collapses within 10 years. We've seen that pattern in Yugoslavia, after the Croatian Spring.
Weapons seized from ransacked
Weapons seized from ransacked police stations in Suez and elsewhere. Masses stoning army convoys in Cairo. Price of Oil approaching $100 pb. Dow Jones down by nearly 200 points. Ha ha.
From the liveblog Quote: 2315
From the liveblog
On twitter - a tip for the
On twitter - a tip for the next domino to fall?
Obama gave a speech on the
Obama gave a speech on the Egyptian thing a few seconds ago. He basically said "We will work with Mubarak against dictatorship," a statement as ridiculous as it is typical of Obama. So you're going to work with a dictator...against dictatorship? Al Jazeera says that Obama's supposed "phone conversation" with Mubarak didn't happen until AFTER he mentioned it in the speech, since the Press Secretary was asked about whether they had been in phone contact before the speech and he kind of sidestepped the question.
Also on twitter Quote:
Also on twitter
Rafah is on the border with Gaza. This point was made on the angryarab blog earlier in the day:
Photos
Photos
From the liveblog Quote: 0138
From the liveblog
On twitter in the last hour
On twitter in the last hour or so
Egypt's security and armed
Egypt's security and armed forces: The deciding factor (BBC)
From the liveblog Quote: 0153
From the liveblog
(No subject)
[youtube]IYmtsTANYQI[/youtube]
As night falls in Egypt
As night falls in Egypt families begin looking for missing loved ones
Found this account here
Found this account here interesting, even though she puts it in terms of reclaiming "our country":
Thing that gets me about all these very moving spine tingling events is the incredible pace of them - who would have thought this could happen on Tuesday morning?
a few MSM notes: - NBC's man
a few MSM notes:
- NBC's man in cairo points out that the tear gas canisters being fired are labelled 'made in USA' and that this has not gone unnoticed; the muslim brotherhood is getting on board and this is a source of fear among the demonstrators; ex-defense sec'y cohen and current v.p. biden both spoke in support of mubarak
- ITN's man (via PBS here in the states) thinks there's 'too much leadership' among the demonstrators and there's no-one to treat with mubarak, though el baradei is a reformer, hence 'reasonable'
This little item just caught
This little item just caught my eye:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/01/201112991712140318.html
China has blocked the word "Egypt'' from the country's wildly popular Twitter-like service, while coverage of the political turmoil has been tightly restricted in state media.
China's ruling Communist Party is sensitive to any potential source of social unrest.
A search for "Egypt'' on the Sina microblogging service brings up a message saying, "According to relevant laws, regulations and policies, the search results are not shown".
The service has more than 50 million users.
News on the Egypt protests has been limited to a few paragraphs and photos buried inside major news websites, but China Central Television had a report on its midday broadcast.
China's foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment Saturday on the events in Egypt.
Source: Associated Press
[/quote]
AJ just reported that salt
AJ just reported that salt workers in Suez have gone on strike 'until Mubarak resigns'.
According to latest French
According to latest French national news, Mubarak's 10-storey ruling party HQ in Cairo is on fire, a supermarket in the 'banlieux' (working class outskirts) of Cairo has been looted, and there are no cops on the streets!!! (prelude to the army preparing a massacre, a coup, a mutiny or.......what???)
It sounds like the cops got
It sounds like the cops got completely routed in some areas (although not Cairo) yesterday. I could imagine them staying at home and licking wounds today, but no cops at all sounds a bit ominous of something.
Riot cop getting a kiss from
Riot cop getting a kiss from a protester http://twitpic.com/3uhaj1
There's no context (apart from the 'just doing their job' caption), so hard to tell if this was just a photo-op or fraternisation and part of the trend of riot police quitting.
I didn't catch where but the
I didn't catch where but the BBC reported at 11 o'clock today that a steel works had been on strike for two days and voted today on an indefinite strike.
Al Jazeera's Liveblog for
Al Jazeera's Liveblog for today
the more interesting parts:
http://twitter.com/#!/ajtalk/
http://twitter.com/#!/ajtalk/status/31328353743011840
CONFIRMED: EGYPTIAN MILITARY ABANDONS THE BORDERS BETWEEN GAZA AND EGYPT #Jan25 #Jan28 #Rafah #Gaza #Mubarak #Police #Cairo
More from the Al Jazeera
More from the Al Jazeera liveblog
From the EA
From the EA liveblog
Alexandria, according to this
Alexandria, according to this source, is now under the control of the demonstrators. See pictures as well:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/photos/2011/01/rioting-and-chaos-engulfs-egyp.html#mi_rss=The%20Frame
Guardian live updates
[youtube]Gb1ErDLSiKk[/youtube]
Guardian live updates
On twitter Quote: Al Jazeera
On twitter
From Al Jazeera
From Al Jazeera liveblog
I'm not sure how much the curfew will mean in practice. [Edit: I've just been watching the live feed from Tahrir Square in Cairo and no one's going anywhere. Army and tanks on the streets but relations between protesters and soldiers seem friendly]
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
I found thoe slogans on the
I found thoe slogans on the net and was told they're being shouted in Egypt:
From the anti-cuts
From the anti-cuts thread
Mark. wrote: Just heard the
Mark.
Also, slightly odd, but apparently people formed a chain around the British Museum in solidarity with protests in Cairo last night: http://reallyfreeschool.org/?p=181
Right. So this guy is on Al
Right. So this guy is on Al Jazeera now saying that people from 'the poor areas' are going to the rich areas and taking furniture and cars and shit. And that the wealthier citizens have formed militias with rocks and knives and shit.
Can anyone confirm this?
Can anyone confirm this? Especially the bit about private property being 'siezed'?
Some reports on AJ of
Some reports on AJ of 'popular committees' forming in Alexandria (and Suez?) to protect private property and counter violent actions of 'thugs'. Members of public also directing traffic in absence of traffic police. A little odd to see the protestetors stopping to pray, and then get up to carry on protesting. Reminiscent of Feburary revolution in 1917 starting as protest led by Orthodox priest Father Gapon, although the Imams in Egypt seem to have been very conservative. Fascinating...
Quote: Called my mother just
http://baheyeldin.com/places/egypt/update-egyptian-revolution-1.html
no1 wrote: Also, slightly
no1
i've seen reports that a human chain was made around the museum in cairo (to prevent looting) so an act of imitation in solidarity?
From the Al Jazeera
From the Al Jazeera liveblog
This is starting to sound like the situation in Tunis two weeks ago.
petey wrote: no1
petey
Yeah, that must have been the idea. The thing is that half of the stuff in the British Museum was looted from Egypt - but Egyptians were protecting their heritage from looters (who no doubt would sell it to international collectors and museums).
From the EA
From the EA liveblog
Re: looters. It is very
Re: looters. It is very likely that at least some of them are plain clothes security services or even the hired thugs (batalgiya) that the police and mukhabarat hire when they need to beat up protesters.
Again that sounds like what
Again that sounds like what happened in Tunis.
Egypt in 140 characters or
Egypt in 140 characters or less (al-bab.com)
National French TV news
National French TV news showed people climbing on tanks, the soldiers not seeming bothered at all. Also, banks looted, and, alothough petey says:
in fact, the Cairo museum seems to have been broken into and looted a bit.
I think this, from a text I co-wrote, referring to the looting of the Baghdad museum in the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq, begins to put a bit of nuance onto the pillaging of museums, though i think there are more nuances that could be developed:
Also, the news started off by saying it was only men, then showed at the end interviews with women protestors, and insisted that the movement was of both men and women (young and old, poor and middle class...). In fact, it did seem like over 90% men (probably the same percentage of participants on libcom as well), clearly a weakness of the movement .
The looting at the Cairo
The looting at the Cairo museum was fairly minor and seems to have happened despite attempts by protesters to protect it. I doubt that you'd find many people in Egypt who didn't think it worth protecting. It's the most impressive museum collection I've seen anywhere. You don't have to be a nationalist to appreciate it.
Given Egyptian society I'd say that if women were anything approaching 10% of the people on the streets that would actually be something quite positive.
From the EA
From the EA liveblog
Quote: Such museums are meant
I have visited the Egyptian Museum and will always remember seeing its collection of antiquities. I am afraid I don't buy this "nuanced" defence of museum pillaging; where does it lead? Let's burn the books? Let's destroy all of the works of the past 6000 years? Let's drive the intellectuals out into the rice paddies? This kind of thinking is halfway between the Khmer Rouge and the Taliban and I find it detestable.
It is perfectly possible to admire the works of humanity and yet to critically appreciate the social milieux in which they were produced, moreover there are plenty of museum workers and scholars around the world who try everyday to provide nuanced interpretations for visitors without smashing up mummies.
(No subject)
[youtube]DQD-X9G9xfk[/youtube]
The bit I quoted was a
The bit I quoted was a footnote to this:
To compare desperate looting with the vicious State-armed madness of
is
Having said, that, I don't entriely agree with what I co-wrote about 6 years ago, but it's more complex than your post, Ariege.
I suspect the government are
I suspect the government are behind the attempts to ramp up terror and panic over security over night. Lots of talk about looting, gangs roaming around intimidating residents. Wouldn't be surprised if this is police seeking revenge for being beaten off the streets yesterday. Great pretext for government and army to push for restoration of 'law and order'. Typical tactic of the reaction.
EDIT: just saw this tweet on #jan25
Reports of suspected looter killed by unknown persons in Heliopolis. Police ID reported found on body.
EDIT: Some expat on AJ says reports of looting in the neighbourhood next to him are false. When asked "How are you defending yourself, sticks and knives?" he replies "No. Shotguns and pistols. And an old cricket bat."
Ariege wrote: Quote: Such
Ariege
ART IN THE AGE OF INJECTION-MOLDED PLASTIC REPRODUCTION
Why is the "authentic" original somehow better that the 100% accurate exact reproduction, made in Guangzhou, China, that I just bought at Wal-Mart?
I've got my plastic mummies and sarcophagi beautifully displayed in my living room in wonderful imitation-oak-veneer particleboard (chipboard to those of you in the UK) IKEA display cases.
From the Al Jazeera
From the Al Jazeera liveblog
From the EA liveblog
From the Arabist
Aftermath
The army and the people
AJE is reporting that armed
AJE is reporting that armed protesters tried and failed to storm the interior ministry leading to the deaths of several protesters
Quote: ElShayyal said that
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011129155142145826.html
According to a comment posted
According to a comment posted on the Arabist blog
And on the EA liveblog
MSM notes: - CBS led with a
MSM notes:
- CBS led with a surprisingly good piece focusing on poverty, unemployment, and political alienation as the drivers; they referred to looting without fetishizing it, though local news went with that angle (it bled so it led)
- NBC had sec'y cohen on again, who again couldn't say enough good about mubarak
On the EA
On the EA liveblog
Photos from Saturday
An army tank is parked near a
An army tank is parked near a burnt-out armoured personnel carrier in Tahrir square
(from the Guardian 29 January 2010)
This is amazing!
Youth Journalism
Youth Journalism International: Inside The Egyptian Revolution
ludd wrote: Youth Journalism
ludd
for a moment there i thought she was going to say "we carry a new world here in our hearts"!
since friday is long passed i suppose the danger from spreading that protest guide mentioned earlier is also gone, here's a translation of some of the pages.
Quote: It’s a different
Reminds me of the May '68 graffiti: Ten days of happiness already. Hard to keep up with it all.
I know the Muslim Brotherhood have been hardly present during this movement, and most people are saying that this is because they don't know what to do. But maybe they're also playing a more long-term strategy; if the liberal democrats round ElBaradei get into power and dampen down the movement (concentrating on political reforms rather than social reforms related to survival) they could recuperate the very likely resurgence of social contestation into Islamic fundamentalist perspectives. Sure this is jumping the gun and is pretty much off the top of my head as my knowledge of Egypt is very very limited, but maybe it's worth considering, no?
Some extracts from the EA
Some extracts from the EA liveblog
Guardian live updates Al
Guardian live updates
Al Jazeera liveblog
Al Jazeera live stream
Mubarak clings on as his
Mubarak clings on as his power ebbs (al-bab.com)
this:
this: http://twitter.com/Jan25voices
has mohamed badee of the MB saying:
" Mubarak responsible for current events "
" We are everywhere in all classes, in all sexes, in all places, in all positions and we are helping the people of Egypt now "
" The fatalities are fourtimes the announced figures "
phone interview on al jazeera in arabic apparently, can't find it myself though
reports of dumdum bullets being used though pictures look more like buckshot
edit: found the link for this, looks pretty clearly buckshot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58934713@N06/5400325520/in/set-72157625932819712/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58934713@N06/5400323254/in/set-72157625932819712/
7 modern us tanks spotted on the streets of cairo
edit: from guardian live blog (audio link on site):
1.21pm: "At first we trusted the army, but we don't trust them any more," protester Mohamed Ali tells Peter Beaumont as a new tank unit moves into Tahrir Square.
edit: has anyone heard what the MFO and task force sinai specifically are doing in all this?
http://twitter.com/3arabawy h
http://twitter.com/3arabawy
hossam has net access somehow
read it while it's hot
squaler - thanks - from that
squaler - thanks - from that twitter feed:
there's a whole beautiful
there's a whole beautiful chain of them... I wonder how much it represents popular sentiment and how much hossam wants it to, no way for me to know from here, but one can hope he is right...
IT IS NOT TRUE WHAT MSM IS BROADCASTING ABOUT PROTESTERS CALLING ON BARADIE TO LEAD TRANSITIONAL GOVT!
WE DO NOT WANT THE ARMY! THE ARMY HAS BEEN RULING SINCE 1952. THEY R NOT NEUTRAL PLAYERS.
My neighborhood Nasr City, my city Cairo and in all Egyptian towns, popular committees r being formed by citizens to provide security.
It is not true what some MSM outlets r broadcasting about the Muslim Brotherhood and the 6th of April leading the protests. It's complete BS
The Popular Committees hold the seeds for what direct democracy could look like in the future. We need to focus on them instead of BARADIE!
The protests have spontaneous leaders in most of the occasions. We won't let this upririsng to be hijacked by anybody.
Tahrir Square being buzzed by
Tahrir Square being buzzed by F16 fighter jets. Reinforcements of army trucks arriving...
http://tabulagaza.blogspot.co
http://tabulagaza.blogspot.com/2011/01/what-i-expect-to-happen-in-egypt.html
Clinton: 'There must be an
Clinton: 'There must be an orderly transition to democracy' - as opposed to the 'disorder' of 'the street'? Reinforced by bullets?
Looks very ominous and scary.
As far as I can see, the
As far as I can see, the intelligence chief Suleiman, the new Vice President, has been running Egypt for a number of years, certainly while Murbarak has been in ill-health. He's ranked by many as a more powerful in the region than the boss of Mossad. He's very much respected by the ruling classes of Israel, the US, Britain and the EU and like these gangsters has been a potent force in creating the Palestinian Authority as an arm of Isreali repression. According to the recent al-Jazeera leaks MI6, produced a security plan for the PA, working with Egyptian intelligence out of the British embassy in Egypt.
It seems to be a trick of the intelligence services, when under extreme pressure, to let out the most dangerous prisoners to cause havoc. Attacks on museums would perfectly accord with the work of this filth.
Reports from Israel say that Hamas has closed its Gaza borders with Egypt and have put numbers of their security personnel there. Like the US, Britain, Israel and the EU, Hamas has said that it wants to see the return of "calm and stability" in Egypt.