A London student union officer has received death threats in a month-long campaign of harassment, after she organised a meeting for minority students.
Bahar Mustafa, 27, is the Welfare & Diversity Officer of Goldsmiths Students’ Union. Ms Mustafa organised a meeting for black and minority ethnic (BME) women and non-binary people, and asked that white people and men did not attend.
A Goldsmiths student, who is understood to have recently been a member of the xenophobic right-wing UKIP party, claimed that this was racist against white men.
The story was spun as ‘white men banned from anti-racism rally’, and subsequently picked up by student paper the Tab, the Evening Standard and Daily Mail, amongst others. Supporters of Bahar refuted the claims in a statement:
This is not, as has been suggested in the press, anti-white bigotry. Nor is it discrimination, in any sense of the word. The event in question is not a job or scholarship from which white people are barred from applying. It is an organising meeting involving just over ten people, convening to feed back into wider organising meetings.
However, the campaign against her subsequently escalated, with attempts to have Ms Mustafa - who is an elected student union officer - ‘sacked’. She has also received death threats, and has been reported to the police.
Following the media coverage, an assortment of Men’s Rights Activists, British fascists, and participants in the misogynist hate campaign gamergate descended on the twitter hashtag #SupportBaharMustafa with a torrent of abuse.
I #supportbaharmustafa because she might blow me up if I don't
— Rance Muhammitz (@Rancemuhammitz) May 20, 2015
#isupportbaharmustafa Because i am a filthy kike enabling leftist dipshit
— Deathparade (@DeathparadeNL) May 20, 2015
#SupportBaharMustafa #baharmustafa Put her in a black neighborhood and they would call her a white bitch and beat and rape her.
— Jack Burton (@JackBurtonReflx) May 20, 2015
#killallwhitemen #supportbaharmustafa pic.twitter.com/373mXSh6bH
— Nationalist UK (@Nationalist_UK) May 20, 2015
This effort to ban minorities from meeting without white men present is the latest in a wider campaign portraying left-wing and liberation movements as a totalitarian threat to ‘free speech’ on campuses. Former genocide-denying Marxist turned right-wing contrarian Spiked magazine recently published a ‘free speech ranking’ for universities, with red, amber, and green categories.
Supposed ‘threats to free speech’ which landed universities in the red category include bans on on-campus fascist activity, “zero tolerance” policies on sexual harassment, and recognition of transgender people. Sacking of elected officers for speaking freely is not mentioned.
All mutilation of a childs
As it happens I don't think anybody should be cutting off bits of children's bodies for non-medical purposes when they are not even able to speak, let alone consent to the operation.
However, you and I both know that FGM generally has worse consequences than male circumcision. In many cases, when carried out in a medically sterile environment, male circumcision probably has no negative consequences whatsoever. Any objection I have to it is to do with the impossibility of a child validly consenting to such an operation, not the consequences of the operation itself. Anyway, this is getting way off topic.
And what have jokes about men being raped in prison got to do with this? Who here has made those jokes? Has Bahar made those jokes? Is anyone here condoning those jokes? What is your point exactly?
autogestión wrote: All
The point is the SJW's on here coming down on anything them deem offensive, any joke or differing opinion they deem wrong, yet these very real things go unmentioned, basically the people calling Bahar a dickhead are scu of the earth. Bring up legitimate points that she is a massive hypocrite and you automatically hate women.
It is just super biased garbage. It is why anything left eing is scoffed at and ridiculed by your avergae person. Because it is no longer about equal rights for women and working class solidarity. It is about being offended by jokes or opinions and blogging that people should be fired or this person hates women because of this comment. It has become pathetic.
Also the most vocal critics
Plenty of feminists are actively campaigning against FGM. To the extent that people have an issue with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, it's got nothing to do with her opposition to FGM.
The point is the SJW's on
Your calling Bahar a hypocrite doesn't make me think you hate women, it just makes me think you're wrong about this particular issue.
Your obvious liking for youtube videos of women getting punched, on the other hand...
Quote: You are embarassing.
Where have I called for violence? Are you feeling threatened by me? I've never even used the KillAllMen hashtag. You're the one who brought up breaking a woman's teeth as being a logical consequence of equal rights, or some such nonsense in your stream of consciousness diatribe.
Actually, this is totally
Actually, this is totally derailing the Bahar thread and maybe someone should start a Kill All Men thread where the neanderthal MRAs can go and fill their boots.
or somebody could just
or somebody could just fucking ban this guy already...
autogestión wrote: The point
See this is a prime example. Men liking the videos of women assaulting men getting their cummupence is the issue. Not women feeling so confident that they can spit at, insult and violently assault men with no ramifications and when they do experience ramification feminists posting in comment sections saying it is never justified to hit a woman.
Do you really think there is no reason men feel bitter towards feminism other than they don't think women should be equal? Could the double standards not enter into it at all?
The double standards as far as violence and social acceptance of it if it is by a woman towards a man, preferencial treatment in the courts, with alimony, child support, custody. The general entitlement that first world, mainly white women have.
No one has an issue with what most people regard as obvious feminism, equal rights under the law, equal responsibility in society. But that isn't what feminism on forums like these and the twitter SJW's are all about. It is the get people fired for jokes while actual feminists in the third world are fighting for real equality.
The fact you took issue with me liking that video, not the content of the video which was the assault of a man by a woman, tells it all really.
Quote: Also the most vocal
Muslim abuse? You do realize that FGM is an African cultural tradition and has nothing to do with Islam. Sure there are lots of Muslims that do it, but also lots of Christians, animists and so on. People hate on Hirsi Ali because she's an islamiphobic demagouge and a confirmed liar, not the fgm part.
Fnordie wrote: or somebody
This is feminism. Brilliant. From the guy who just advocated homeless people stabbing civillians too. AWESOME. Smash patriarchy!
Quote: or somebody could just
I don't know, would that just play into his persecution complex about being oppressed by feminists, SJWs, hipsters, people who don't watch much shite TV, violent women who really just need a good beating, or whatever?
Khawaga wrote: Quote: Also
Yes FGM is not limited to one disgusting culture or religion.
Ha yeah the woman who suffered FGM abuse and patriarchal oppression is a big mean islamophobe. Fuck off you dumb cunt.Victim blaming is fine if it is someone fighting oppression supported by a faith or culture of brown people huh.
People like you legitimise the horrific treatment of women, gays and trans people with your PC shite.
Are you sure you're not BJJ?
Are you sure you're not BJJ?
Fleur wrote: Quote: or
I am not oppressed by feminists, I am merely explaining why society at large mocks you and thinks you are pathetic sensitive whiners. And why people find Bahar and her ilk utterly contemptible.
Georgie89 wrote: Fnordie
You're the one posting knockout videos from worldstar hip hop on libcom.
and that quote was from Lucy Parsons.
Do you really think there is
It's not a double standard because (a) nobody thinks that it's OK for women to hit men and (b) men tend on average to be stronger than women, and therefore the consequences of male violence (at least where no weapons are involved) are likely to be much worse than the consequences of female violence directed at men. There's no double standard in saying that no one should hit anyone, but physically stronger people definitely shouldn't hit physically weaker people.
Fnordie wrote: Georgie89
Iposted a video of a woman punching a man in an unprovoked attack and giggling about it. You are criticising a man for posting it. Not the woman assaulting a man. If i had posted a video of a man launching an unprovoked attack on a woman the responses would have been much different.
Also no one was knocked out.
Ha yeah the woman who
Who is victim blaming!? No one is saying she deserved FGM. All anyone is doing is taking issue with some of her views.
Are you saying that because someone has been a victim of FGM we have to agree with everything they say, or else it's "victim blaming"?
Georgie89 wrote: Fnordie
here's another worldstarhiphop compilation, let's get outraged about all those bits too
autogestión wrote: Do you
That is exactly what it is, the principles don't stop being important because of strength. If I walked up to some brick shithouse and insulted or punched him just because he is stronger and more physically imposing and strong than me does not extricate me from the responsibilities tied to the actions I choose to carry out.
No one would call him out for hitting back because a man was way weaker. This is the problem, want all the same rights but you don't think women should face any of the same responsibilities. And your attitude to feminists being offended is completely different to a regular guy being offended.
Georgie89 wrote: Fleur
I wonder what they must think of you.
autogestión wrote: Ha yeah
I am saying if she said the things she did about non brown christians there would be no feminists giving her death threats or supporting religious violence and repression against brave feminists like her who speak out.
It is fucking disgusting. As if condemning Islam as doctrinally sexist is somehow being islamophobic. This is how first world feminism has basically abandoned the only women who actually need real help. Condemn the woman of colour fighting against islamic oppression, support Bahar and suey park and their trivial nonsense.
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
I bet all 100 of them and the couple thousand supporters who reside online have some stern words for the millions of us who think that :)
That is exactly what it is,
As far as I'm concerned anyone who uses more than the minimum amount of force necessary to defend themselves deserves criticism. The idea that someone hitting you means you have an automatic right to hit them back, even if you don't feel remotely endangered, and even when there are other less violent forms of restraint or defense open to you, is just another part of our messed up concept of masculinity.
Georgie89 wrote: I bet all
What that wasn't really what I meant but no biggie. Its a little odd how none of those millions seem to be backing you up.
Probably just a vote of confidence in your handling of the situation I'm sure :groucho:
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
What? the millions of people in the public are backing me up, hence why there are only a couple thousand SJW's, most of whom only exist online. Everyone else thinks first world contemporary feminism is pathetic whiny liberal shite. They get angry when bloggers try and get shows cancelled, when they run campaign to do inane pointless whiney shit like force firemen not to have pinups inside their lockers, or stop speakers from talking at universities. Like how chris rock and George Both said at separate times they no longer play universities because the leftist feminist crowd are the least tolerant and most easily offended group.
If your views were representative of women the vast majority of women wouldn't mock and ridicule the feminists holding up signs outside of hooters or whining about nonsense. The vast majority of women and workers agree with me, nice try though. As if because SJW's on a radical left site not agreeing with me means people in society don't lol.
Georgie89 wrote: This is how
So let me get this straight.
Helping "the woman of colour fighting against islamic oppression" = good.
Letting women of colour organise autonomously if they wish to = bad.
Have I got that right? Or are you only objecting to the hashtag?
Georgie89 you know one of the
you know one of the mottos of Ocalan is "kill the man". So I think you should take a pause and think what you write over ok? And come back with an appropriate self-critisim :)
What? the millions of people
Feminism is a very broad movement. Feminists often disagree with other feminists on all sorts of issues. Some people who call themselves femenists aren't very nice people, because that's how human beings are, and there's no central office that gives out the feminist membership cards. For example, I once read a blog that was literally saying that after the abolition of patriarchy men would have to be kept under house arrest and the male population reduced to at most a quarter of the human population.
What does the existence of that blog prove about feminism? Absolutely nothing.
Sure, if you want to find some reason for rejecting the whole of first world feminism, you're probably going to find one. The question is, why would you want to come to such a simplistic position?
Georgie If you don't have any
If you don't have any actual evidence to back up your more outrageous claims about Bahar then take your general rants about feminism and your white-knighting for famous comedians elsewhere.
Georgie89 wrote: What? the
Then where are they?
How do you know, did you take a poll?
Wow that does sound conclusive, might I see your research notes I may wish to cite in a paper.
Do they? but how could everyone know if this is all the pass time of a tiny minority on the net?
Did they, when and was this all of them together? Did they hold a meeting? Or a perhaps a skype chat.
Really that's a shame, though it does seem to indicate these few thousand hold real power, why is it that the millions whom oppose them don't stop them?
And how do you know my views, have you been rifling through my bins?
Err do the majority of women frequently attend hooters? Or was it just a fluke that they happened to be in the vicinity of a few placard wavers?
Really you asked them did you? My word you must spend a fortune on postage.
I guess not, perhaps they're all just too busy to lend you a hand. Maybe its 2 for 1 at hooters? :groucho:
I posted earlier a documentary where a YPJ leader talks about fighting for womens rights and basically shits all over feminism. Feminism of the Suey Park and Bahar, which is the feminism of the privileged who have no struggles has no resemblance to the feminists of various communist movements where women are fighting and dying in a place women are incredibly unfree, for the equal rights Suey and Bahar already have.
You are BJJ aren't you?
You are BJJ aren't you?
Who's BJJ? Sorry, just
Who's BJJ? Sorry, just curious.
autogestión wrote: Georgie89
But what if those women of color are organizing autonomously into a YPJ unit? How will our intrepid young militiaman decide whether that's self-entitled white middle class SJW feminism or the noble serious feminism worth shipping out to get killed for?
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
I think all of Georgie89's 'research' and 'numbers' come from youtube and from the comments section under the videos he likes to watch.
Quote: Who's BJJ? Sorry, just
A serial banned poster. Liked rape jokes, thought libcom & other radicals were too out of touch with the average working class man, hated feminists, stood up valiantly for the poor oppressed TV comedians, hated Suey Park. Progressed on to posting up porn, iirc.
See the book. To be honest I
See the book. To be honest I do not think neither party nor Ypj threats such issues very lightly as they are handled in white internet forums :)
autogestión wrote: What? the
Sure feminism ranges from working class women saying they want equal rights. Then on the other end of the spectrum there are ones who claim PIV sex is always rape. But the issue almost no one in the west has a bad word to say about what most people refer to as old feminism which is basically women who didn't enjoy the same legal rights as men who wanted them.
That is what feminism in the third world is. Most people don't refer to that as feminism because it is seen as durrrr ... obviously.
It is no coincidence that a documentary i linked has Kurdish women fighting for equal rights, who are taking leadership roles and leading a fight against Daesh. They say the same thing about feminism. When people criticise feminism they are talking about the feminism that is only allowed to flourish in a safe and easy society. This is the same reason veganism, anorexia and ban bossy exist in the riches most affluent places in the world. Because people with actual shit to worry about are not interested in such shite.
So are you honestly saying
So are you honestly saying that women face no problems worth fighting against in "western" countries?
kurremkarmerruk wrote: See
You can support the liberation of women and not support the extremely privileged form of feminism that exists in the richest nations on earth, which is the cause of mainly middle and upper middle class white women.
Have you spoken to many kurds? When they talk to you about the UK they talk about how they dream of a Kurdish state that has freedom for women like we have lol. Follow some of the YPJ fighters online, half their posts are about how they are fighting Daesh and dream of having the same rights as our women have here.
You seem to be mistaking not supporting banning comedians for telling jokes and not agreeing with radical feminism in the first world in tantamount to not supporting equal rights under the law that the PKK are fighting for.
This has gotten way out of
This has gotten way out of hand. Shouldn't we all just take a step back here and organize out thoughts?
Georgie- I think you have really let this one get away from you, that you may be mad about some stuff that was, that kinda made sense sorta but since I made lunch you typed like 3245,1284,285,36745 words and maybe there was some stuff in there that was not 100% well thought out?
Everyone else- Why are you even arguing with this kid? it's a fucking mess!
Just so you know where I'm at...I don't want to be Bahar Mustafa's friend or start a reading group with her but neither do I think that she deserves to be chased out of her job or threatened or harassed. Is that controversial, Georgie or all those new troll accounts if you are still out there??
Well if you read this you
Well if you read this you will see (relatively) the revolutionary social organisation in Rojava is pretty much what Bahar might be wishing to achieve by all positive discrimination im favor of oppressed ethnicities or genders.
autogestión wrote: Georgie89
You don't seem to listen when I say I don't care about the hashtag, it didn't offend me. What pissed so many people off is she was part of the group of SJW;s trying to have people fired for a joke. She then jokingly iuses the killallwhitemen hashtag and feminists are crying that people are trying to get her sacked.
It is the double standard, you won't acknowledge what I have actually said instead you keep going on about the hashtag lol.
Georgie89 wrote: autogestión
Methinks there's another double standard you seem to struggle with acknowledging matey.
You don't seem to listen when
But the whole reason she's even in the public eye is that she organised a meeting where white men weren't allowed to attend. If it weren't for that no one outside her university would even know who she is. This is the whole reason she is under attack.
Is it not possible that there are good reasons for trying to get someone fired and bad reasons for trying to get someone fired? For example, organising a meeting for particular minority groups might be a bad reason for trying to get someone fired. Making racist comments on national TV, on the other hand, might be a fairly justifiable reason for trying to get someone fired?
I haven't seen the show in question, so I don't know if that's a fair description of it, but surely you see my point. It's not hypocritical to call for someone to lose their job in a situation where they deserve it, but to object to others trying to get you fired when you clearly don't deserve it.
Tarwater wrote: This has
Bahar is probably a nice person in real life, this is the internet and I posted something the majority of a forum for libcom's did not agree with and then this devolved like all forum arguments do. You post on mises or some right wing forum as a libcom and you get the same in reverse, one libcom trying to reply to 50 posters. It gets hard to stay calm and coherent.
Most of these people i disagree with I don't hate. When I have met radical feminists in real life they have been nowhere near as combative or angry or fundamentalist in their attack on dissenting opinions. Because real life fores people to behave in a realistic way.
The main issue as i have said in this thread is the double standard.
If you disagree with a radical feminist on anything they accuse you of hating women
They try and have shows or comedians taken off air and people fired for jokes
They claim persecution if people try and get them fired for the same thing
They use violence to stop people speaking at universities f they disagree with them )something that would be called proof of a culture of oppression against women)
They often defend disgusting female bias in the courts, with alimony, child support, custody cases etc.etc.etc.
Basically people wouldn't get so irritated if there wasn't such an obvious double standard. It does not mean in real life I wouldn't be civil to them and I have not had civil interactions with them.
Is bahar radical feminist?
Is bahar radical feminist? According to what?
Then you have to just like,
Then you have to just like, let it go , man. The internet has led to a lot of people having a very big audience for not very perfect ideas, I am glad that it was not around when I was younger as I may have made a big fool of myself. If you are an anarchist or communist or something, than you have to have a faith in people, at least somewhat. People are going to work it out for themselves, getting all upset over someone being a little hypocritical is not worth it, or helpful. And anyway, If Mustafa gets solidarity and gets past all this right wing crap being leveled at her, don't you think it will have a better outcome across the board than if the Daily Mail wins??
Also, you are alienating a lot of people that I bet you could learn some stuff from on here. I just think this kind of hysterical mega argument that happens on here from time to time is bad for everybody.
(Obligatory picture of a hippie)
Tarwater wrote: Then you have
I don't think it is ok for anyone to try and ban speakers, have people fired for a joke. I think people like bahar who try and silence people who disagree are fundamentally wrong. Just like I think people who claim to be for freedom and democratic processes while also advocating violence against scabs etc are wrong.
In real life I can be friendly and disagree with people but online when people jump and attack you and label you a woman hater etc then it lets an argument get out of hand in a way it never would face to face.
I disagree with radical feminism and its manifestation in the first world which centers around being outraged at jokes or words. Women on the first world enjoy all the rights men do, they also have an upper hand when it comes to the courts etc.
If feminism is about women and men having equal rights i am a feminist. If feminism is about women who have equal rights already under the law, getting people fired, trying to force PC stuff like language policing, petitions to have people fired, ban words, ostracise people with dissenting views, then I am not.
Now this is never going to end with people accepting that because the people on this forum are so drastically far to one side of the arguement that they will never have a civil debate about it. Just like the MRA crowd on reddit can't have one and will downvote you for raising legitimate points that don't fit with their world view.
Quote: Just like the MRA
Sounds like you'd be more at home there. You already have all their talking points, and are every bit as lacking in nuance as they are.
Fleur wrote: Quote: Just
That is why not being beholden to an ideological frame of talking points means you don't become an extremist of illogical about something.
I can think about each point independently. Rather than having to support the ideological line regarding every individual thing.
Can I ask do you think women in the first world have the same rights as men?
Quote: Ha yeah the woman who
You do realize that the confirmed liar part is in relation to her supposed oppression by Islam. While she did indeed undergo fgm and, like almost all women, has experienced harassment, what she claimed on her asylum application to the Netherlands and in her books were proven, by the Dutch immigration authorities to be complete fabrication (it was a huge scandal in the Netherlands and why she left for the US. Now, lying on your application to get into Festung Europa I'm fine with, but repeating it in numerous pieces of writing and in meetings is not ok as that is actually islamophobic. Critiquing Islam is just fine, but making up shit for that purpose is not. And it is actually dangerous for other women who have escaped horrible conditions, considering they may not be believed and thus won't be allowed in.
There are far better critics of Islam out there than her.
Quote: Can I ask do you think
Such a question is neither here nor there. Rights is a legal concept and something we all have as human beings (human rights) or citizens of a state. We're all rights holders with the state guaranteeing those rights. This means that people in Syria have the same rights as us as per the UDHR. The question is rather about the violation of those rights. And worldwide, women's right are violated more than those of men
Khawaga wrote: Quote: Ha
You are peddling lies:
"In 2006, Ayaan had to resign from parliament when the then Dutch minister for Immigration decided to revoke Ayaan's Dutch citizenship, arguing that Ayaan had misled the authorities at the time of her asylum application. However, the Dutch courts confirmed that Ayaan was indeed a legitimate Dutch citizen, leading to the fall of the government. Disillusioned with the Netherlands, she subsequently moved to the United States."
She did not lie about her abuse she lied that she had come straight from Somalia when infact she had escaped to another few countries before going to Holland.
Once again your victim blaming is fucking hideous mate. Sort it out. If it wasn't muslims who she is denouncing for abusing her you would be banned for blaming the victim.
Don't know if you noticed
Don't know if you noticed because of all the fire and fury but the fuckwit slagged off vegans and anorexics as well, in his Maoist syle third worldist rants.
Quote: Don't know if you
Yeah, noticed. Not engaging anymore. Life's too short.
Battlescarred wrote: Don't
I said Veganism and Anorexia are first world problems. This isn't disputable. Deal with it, or did it offend you? If it did deal with it, isn't that what white men should do with the killallwhitemen joke? Or do you have the right not to be offended?
You don't fucking get it. I
You don't fucking get it. I don't care if she got in to Europe under false premises. That is neither here nor there, and as I said she is a survivor of fgm and harassment, but she has also made up stories about her abuse in order to back up her arguments about Islam. It is that latter part I find objectionable, nothing else. And it's not victim blaming you idiot. If I'd flat out refused to believe anything, you would have a point, but that is not what I have done.
You seem to have dealt with it rather poorly.
Khawaga wrote: Quote: Can I
Sure I agree. Historically though the lack of those rights came with the ability to not have to face responsibility. Which if you actually read up on the suffragettes movement, many were worried about getting equal rights to men as they thought naturally they would have to agree to the responsibilities. Such as the draft, responsibility for debts etc.
This is similar to certain classes or minorities in many countries receiving the right to vote and thus becoming eligible for the draft etc as part of that social contract.
So yes women didn't have the same rights throughout history, they also didn't die in the hundreds of million in war they were forced to fight for, men also had all the responsibility for debts, children etc.
I fully support equal rights under the law, I am for destroying gender roles, for both men and women. I think violence against women is horrible (not self defence against them) and I think men who victimise women, rape them or abuse them should be buried under the prison.
But again I am against the feminist movement that word polices, tries to have people fired and claims advertising showing hot women or jokes making fun of women is some how oppressing them.
Khawaga wrote: You don't
She did not make up abuse, no one even alledged that. What the fuck are you talking about. The only people saying that are the islamists whoa re trying to kill her. Do you have any proof? anything? No of course not.
You are responding in the same way as MRA when they want to just shut a smart woman up. But you are coming from the super left defend islam position, which just bullies women as a secondary affect.
The MRA here is you, dear,
The MRA here is you, dear, not me.
Khawaga wrote: The MRA here
You are calling someone who was abused and oppressed by muslims a liar with no evidence. You have more in common with the MRA subreddit than me my friend. You do have more social brownie points than me though, fighting Islamophobia and all.
I wonder if Georgie's head will explode when he goes to Rojava and learns that women in the third world do indeed experience eating disorders. Go figure that someone so eager to head off to fight for the PYD would have such a nonsensical perception of people in non-Western countries.
Tyrion wrote: Georgie89
Yep all 10 of them. I hear the vegan population of the middle is is also set to eclipse that of Europe this year. Lammmeeeee.
Georgie89 wrote: Tyrion
A sad example of what happens when someone's knowledge of people living in the third world comes completely from Western Maoists.
Tyrion wrote: Georgie89
To be exact, Rebel News on youtube.
Tyrion wrote: Georgie89
Maoists are just as batshit crazy as you. They are completely allien to my political compass. Although giving that most people on here deem violence against scabs as ok and don't believe in individual rights, you probably have that authoritarian streak in common with them.
Agent of the Fifth
Agent of the Fifth International
Did you seriously imply i support maoism lol? Give me a constitutional republic with individual rights before you give me any form of state socialism.
Tyrion wrote: Georgie89
Have you ever lived in the third world? You don't want to bark up this tree mate lol
Ever heard of the Jain and
Ever heard of the Jain and Hindu population of South India who don't eat meat, you poor sad misogynist scumbag.
If only more libcommers would
If only more libcommers would abandon their authoritarian support for physically preventing strikes from being broken and instead travel thousands of miles to shoot people for the PKK.
Battlescarred wrote: Ever
1. They are vegetarians retard
2. They are vegetarian because of religion not first world vegan reasons
3. They are a tiny minority and are not vegan.
4. Research before you clamour to disprove something.
5. You are not battle scarred lol
Also Ocalan is (or was)
Also Ocalan is (or was) vegetarian ( and because of his political decision. from the linked news: "I took an individual stand not to eat meat")
Moreover there is a growing number among guerilla who does not eat meat, some guerillas consider it a real problem for a revolutionary to exploit and dominate animals for its own benefit.
from the linked interview given above (with director who live with guerilla to make a documentary):
(So although they are not explicitly vegan, some (a growing number) do care about killing of animals by us and wish to stop it.)
And Kurdish movement encourages formation of women's assemblies. So they do affirmative action and autonomous organisation kind of stuff of women. (See especially the part: "there are also women or young versions of the same institution that has the right to veto the decisions of activities of the general one.")
I guess you will really have hard time with ypg. Seriously though do not go there as you are completely ignorant about their political ideas. They are not just army they do care about this stuff. Really they wont be ok with this shit you are saying here. Get rid of stupid image you have of them, they are militants who try to build a better future, they are neither saints nor devils.
EDITED to add the links.
Tyrion wrote: If only more
Using violence to stop people selling their labour is authoritarian, you are no different from a leninist if you are honest about what you advocate.
Shooting people engaged in genocide and war crimes is not comparable to using violence against someone selling their labour in a democracy. But of course you don't believe in democracy. Which is why you support violence against workers who don't agree with you and the vast vast majority don't agree with you or socialism.
kurremkarmerruk wrote: Also
You keep talking like the YPG are closer to your ideology than mine lol. I talk to people over there, none of them share your views. I linked a video showing YPJ/G female commander saying feminism is shit and talk about how their political beliefs differ from it.
What are you talking about? The PKK are not a bunch of uber sensitive white kids monaing about protein world billboards. Their idea of womens liberation is not the same as this forum's lol.
Also if the YPG love Jordan Matson, a christian pro capitalist conservative I think you claiming they care about if you agree 100% with them is bullshit.
The real authoritarians in
The real authoritarians in this world aren't the ones who run mini-states, but the ones who enforce strikes.
kurrem, just wait till those entitled middle class SJWs in the YPJ get a lesson in what women really should and shouldn't be concerned about from our hardened international brigader.
Also it is no coincidence that huge number of the YPG members post and repost sam harris and chris hitchens quotes and other peoples quotes that would be deemed "reactionary" on here. It is also not by accident that most Kurds you talk to love the UK and America and don't share your analysis of them.
Tyrion wrote: The real
Just admit you beleive in authoritarian actions like acts of violence against workers who wish to sell their labour against your wishes. Pretty anti-worker of you, mr Anarchist.
I am sorry but go see
I am sorry but go see yourself stupid. You have twitter contacts of ypg saying you I guess "expose your bullshit liberal and misogonist attitude under bahar mustafa thread on libcom". This is ridiculus. See the links I will post
Yeah tyrion you are right. I
Yeah tyrion you are right. I am out. I will just post the links for my claims later.
kurremkarmerruk wrote: I am
OK so you won't even acknowledge the link where YPG commander says they don't support feminism? OK well what else can I say. If you want to ignore reality then fine.
Can this arsehole now be
Can this arsehole now be banned. Enough is enough. Actually between 20 and 40 % of India's population is vegetarian. Which is quite a considerable number of people.
So can I get this straight, do you support scabs and blacklegs?
Battlescarred wrote: Can this
VEGETARIAN not vegan as you claimed. And not for the reasons first world liberals are. You can't be this fucking dumb.
I have just posted this on
I have just posted this on the LORFE page. Lets see what the kurds think lol.
Please now ban this troll.
Please now ban this troll.
What? Who says that? You mean
What? Who says that? You mean YPJ commander and she only says this: YPJ does not support radical feminism (she explains it is separatism between genders, dividing society). Nobody in nowhere say something like they oppose feminism. Moreover they have their own theory "jinology" that says that goes beyond feminism.
Did you even read a book about feminism? What do you know about feminism? Why do you constantly confuse feminism and separatist radical feminism as if they are the same thing? Or think that Bahar is some sort of separatist feminist unlike Kurdish women organisations who organize autonomously?
God I hate when a white person just comes and teaches people in different societies what they can be or can not? You are an example of colonial attitude. What you think you know is just an orientalist image.
EDITED for readability and removing the slurs
Georgie89, you've written a
Georgie89, you've written a particularly large amount of text, so maybe this question has been covered before, but- what are your own political viewpoints, overall?
Finally, in relation to Kurdish groups, a number of posters on here have a very good degree of knowledge on the current situation, more than me and (most likely) more than you, so it's worth having a listen.
Without sounding to patronising, (political) life isn't just twitter or YouTube (or even libcom!!).
Georgie89 wrote: Using
Banning people from internet forums is authoritarian, too
Quote: You keep talking like
He said to a person that, of the posters on this thread, lives the closest to Kobane and is one of the posters on this site that probably knows the most about what is going on. And it is quite the feat that after Georgie the political/ideological twain between kurrem and the critics of Rojava has been somewhat overcome....
Well now Khawaga, Georgie has
Well now Khawaga, Georgie has Facebook chatted with a few YPG members and watched some YouTube videos so let's not go doubting his expertise on the oppressed people of the third world. Hopefully he can ensure that Kurdish women don't go too far in criticizing sexism lest they reveal their inner self-entitled middle class SJW.
Even though I refuse to carry
Even though I refuse to carry on enabling this tit by engaging with him, it has been entertaining watching him "educating" Kurrem about Kobane. :)
Georgie89 wrote: Can you
I've heard many more men making 'jokes' like that in front of women than the contrary.
You mean Whoopi 'Rape rape' Goldberg?
People on here have been called out about prison rape jokes. But again I doubt you actually have a problem with them, I'd be surprised if you don't make them yourself. The problem is not that you are offended by jokes about men being raped the problem is that you think that that justifies saying what you want. You are the one searching for victimhood by claiming an equivalent effect when you don't care about the supposed offence against you. It's a bit like the crappy argument "they can call us crackers but we can't call them niggers" (aside from the stunning lack of equivalence between the two terms in social, cultural, historical terms and on every level of power). If you genuinely are offended by the term cracker then ask people to stop using it. That is the problem if this argument has any validity. Otherwise you're just trying to justify using the word nigger with false victimhood.
This is your actual problem. You identify with the 'we'
I used to get pissed off with being expected to apologise for all the actions of white brits over the years and there is a tendency in some leftist circles do have a go at white men like this. However it is a very small tendency and compared to the casual disregard shown to women especially but also minorities it is nothing serious.
It is wrong to blame all white men for the actions of some, it is a mistake that you can argue against. Thinking that white men are persecuted and therefore siding with the very white men whose participation in control and oppression makes the rest of us look bad is not going to do anything other than put you on the wrong side.
I've met and seen women like that and I have avoided them. But it didn't make me want to see women be punched in the face, to be honest I don't want to watch youtube videos of anyone being punched in the face. Would the video interest you if it was a man punching a man who punched him back? Would you feel such a strong sense of justice in this case?
Fleur wrote: Quote: Hang on,
Jesus, I know I should leave well enough alone, but what's this Cancel Colbert petition? I'm assuming it's not because he's a dirty scab (which he is)?
Georgie89 wrote: Just like
I think this might be directed against me. If so, what I said was that I didn't oppose the use of force against scabs as a tactical choice in certain circumstances. I did parenthetically include "violence" in that post because I was arguing against some douchebag - not unlike yourself - who seemed incapable of making an argument without caricaturing the libcom position.
In any case, it should be abundantly clear that saying force could be tactically justified is a very different thing from "advocating" violence against scabs in the abstract.
really hoping a mob of "dumb
really hoping a mob of "dumb cunts" / "entitled twats" punch this misogynist's tiny head in. Why hasn't this scum bucket been banned yet?
Quote: Jesus, I know I should
Chilli, it's just some stupid internet flap which happened over a year ago, I'm pretty sure your time is way too valuable to waste researching something quite as daft. But if you don't have anything more valuable to do with your time, like clean out kitty litter, watch paint dry -
Quote: Even though I refuse
As if we needed any more proof of the self-entitled SJW PC brigade! Could you imagine if I used tit to insult a woman?!? There'd be a hashtag dedicated to chopping my balls off. And you'd like that Fleur, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you?
Thanks for the link, though. As it turns out, I do actually have some kitty litter to change.
kurremkarmerruk wrote: What?
Isupport equal rights for women, why did you keep mentioning that the kurds support equal rights as if that means I won't like them lol. What the PKK are advocating for is equal rights under the law. We have that in the west, that is what the YPJ commander was saying.
She clearly says what I have said. We support equal rights we don't support feminism. No matter how much you want the PKK membership to have your exact political ideas the fact is they do not.
Oh and guess how the kurdish and non kurdish responded to seeing this thread :D. Needless to say they don't agree with many on here lol. Get out of this tiny political bubble and actually debate and talk to people about issues outside of the people on here who agree with staggering uniformity on almost every issue.
You get more anger and hissy fits on here and people who can't fight talking about punching your face in for disagreeing than you do trying to debate stormfront. Enjoy your bitter irrelevancy guys. I am sure the workers will come around someday. If you lay off the wanting to punch workers for not agreeing with your uber sensitive politics.
kurremkarmerruk wrote: What?
Assumes I am white and originally from the first world. LOL.
Georgie89 wrote: Assumes I
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
Yes because only white people live in the west and only people born in the west end up living in the west.
I am now offended. I demand you make a grovelling apology or you are a racist Eurocentrist bigot. Am I doing libcom right now?
Georgie89 wrote: Yes because
I don't recall saying you were white, and I'm pretty sure `the west` is in the first world.
Georgie89 wrote: Obviously
lol nice try
Yes sir the west is full of white males, when referring to England who are the majority? The white men in England could enslave women easily. The thing is we don't want women to be slaves here so the majority white people don't try and enforce it. Or are you saying when talking about England people of colour should not use the term we? Don't we belong here?
Which is odd you criticise the white west far more than you do say any muslim society. You are the most critical of the societies that have the most rights for women. How feminist.
also, men use their guns and
also, men use their guns and power to control and kill women in the US all the time, and many don't think that is wrong at all. but i forgot that there are no issues for women in the first world.
what's up with your macho posturing, georgie? why are you so obviously made to feel insecure about this issue?
gram negative wrote: also,
Men kill men, how are you trying to make that a sexism issue lol. Jesus is there nothing you won't try and manipulate?
gram negative wrote: also,
Trust me if you ever saw me you would not think I think of myself as macho. Again this forum is so far to one side you can't imagine criticsim coming from anywhere but some right wing macho dickhead.
Youy can't grasp most women, people of colour and workers don't support your ideology or take offense to the things you do. So anyone who thinks you are wrong has to fit the preconceived notions of what someone who disagrees with you must look like.
Georgie89 wrote: Yes sir the
lol nice back track
well, you are the one who is
well, you are the one who is oddly fixated on fights and positively salivating over women getting hit by men, who makes claims that the people here cannot fight - all macho behvaior
Georgie89 wrote: Youy can't
Said the user who can't seem to make up there mind about their own beliefs and identity.
gram negative wrote: well,
Because it is a double standard.
As I already said if there wasn't such glaring double standards people wouldn't be bothered at all. But to pretend the left wing double standard on those issues does not fucking irritate the shit out of the general public is simply ignoring reality.
Just like when some SJW's tries tog et people fired or tries to push through bans on stuff the general attitude of your avergae working class person is one of contempt. Which might explain why so many people have contempt for SJW's and the left in general.
It isn't a coincidence these piece of shit racists like the BNP and UKIP talk about those issues and PC gone mad. They know how to harness the little stuff like that and manipulate people to vote and support them.
Just like Republicans in America are magically talking about income equality, that isn't an accident, they pick up on things the public is pissed about and use it to drive support. The right does the same with things the common person hates. PC, ultra sensitive trends piss most people off, hence why the opportunistic right pounce on them.
You guys don't have to address it but it is fucking real.
Another double standard of
Another double standard of course if is a woman her colour was a diversity officer in a muslim country which is far more oppressive towards women and minorities and she tweeted killallmuslimmen or killallarabmen she would be fucking destroyed on here.
Even though muslim men dominate muslim nations which are far more oppressive to women. It wouldn't bother me just like kill all white men or kill all men does not. But it would bother so many on here.
Georgie89 wrote: Another
you don't engage with what
you don't engage with what anyone says to you other than to dismiss it; you project what you think people would do rather than ask (confirming your own views a priori); you generalize the views of very diverse people, many who would disagree with you - why does this subject inspire such a reaction from you? there is something about this that makes you feel insecure - what is it?
Quote: She clearly says what
However in the video YPG member says:
So unlike you: She know the difference between radical feminism and feminism.
On Bahar you keep assuming Bahar is a seperatist, because of your ass I assume produce much more reliable information then facts.
However you are wrong again: She is pro-workforce organizing irrespective of gender. So she is a feminist with a non-separatist idea. (See comments by Joseph Kay at the beginnings of comments) Can you comprehend that?
So let's review, shall we? :D
1) There are political vegetarians in Kurdish movement (including Ocalan)
2) Kurdish movement is a pro-feminist movement. They do support equality for women just like Bahar does in a different place and context.
Edit: Well as you are so into movies: see this Stateless Democracy: How the Kurdish Women Movement Liberated Democracy from the State by Dirik
Nobody is beating another person up in the video unfortunately, you might find it a bit boring.
I said I suppot feminism .... the variety they have in the third world, which is pushing for equality under the law and the ability to do what men can do, which has already been established in the first world! Not the radical feminism pushed on here, by SJW's. You don't seem to respond to that.
1. I said veganism is a first world problem, what do vegetarians have to do with that? Also they are a minority in the third world and are almost non existent apart from those who are vegetarian not vegan, and are so because of religion, not first world vegan moral reasons. Also I don't give a fuck about Ocalan, stop rambling on about him. All the YPG members who I talk to from the UK say they give you a class where they talk about their ideology but, and I quote "they don't care if you are into it"
2. They support equal rights under the law, their idea of feminism is the same as mine, equality under the law and equal rights and ability to work etc. That is what I support. They don't have any ideological commonality between their "feminism" and the first world feminist movement that tries to get people fired, tries to ban words, word polices etc etc etc etc.
Just because you wish thy did does not mean that notion has any basis in reality.
Georgie89 wrote: All the YPG
Oh so you haven't actually talked to them about this at all.
gram negative wrote: you
It might be that you and SJW's claim to represent everyone but you are an insignificant strain of ideology that has amost zero support anywhere in the world.
Most women do not support feminism or identify as feminist, most people of colour don't support SJW's and their word policing or attempts to have people fired or dictate language and discourse.
Is there a reason you are so sensitive and feel like anyone other than the few thousand privileged university educated well off radical students in the first world agree with you?
You get any man or woman off the street and have this conversation with them and they would be much less receptive to your ideas than me. Most would be banned for using non-pc language, not supporting almost any of your economic or social ideas. Yet you think I am reactionary? Talk to the women who work with me about slut shaming. They would be banned instantly for the way they talk about other women.
But oh yeah they are just brainwashed by the patriarchy, they couldn't of thought those things on their own :
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
edit why isn't my screenshot showing up?
Georgie89 wrote: It might be
Remind me aren't you the one who really hates double standards?
Are you stupid you little
Are you stupid you little fuck?
1) Despite your own stereotype, there are Kurds in Kurdish movement that are against exploitation and domination of world by humans. Ocalan is very vocal about it. This is political vegetarianism, how this is unrelated to veganism? Are you that stupid?
2) Who is SJW's? Bahar? Be clear or fuck off! Do not change what you say from comment to comment OK? Bahar supports "quality under the law and equal rights" YPJ supports the same thing. moreover both think it is necessary to have an autonomous organizing of women to achieve and defend that! Read somethings stupid I am not your personal translator to kurdish literature which produced a lot of works on it.
3) About "they don't care if you are into it [ideology]" Do not see they just wish you to go there and fight for their side? And you are probably speaking with a kurd who is not guerrilla. Well go discuss these issues with a YPJ commander with a weapon in her hands :D
4) And for your own self, stop thinking that you have a privileged position to reach reality Ok? It is not enough just to watch a few war videos online and speak to a few recruiting Kurds. World is bigger than that unfortunately.
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
I don't think you understand what a double standard is lol.
Georgie89 wrote: It might be
Wow, where do you find the time to talk to most of POC and women to come to that conclusion? All you seem to be focused on is the media - why is that? We can both play the anecdotal game - I know many women and POC workers, some who have went to college and some who haven't, who care about these issues, some who don't - what is your point? My coworkers and I discuss this stuff all the time, and they are complex individuals who escape your attempt to simplify them into the 'average worker', who is a woman and a POC where I live.
Georgie89 wrote: I don't
Your really think your fooling anyone with that?
kurremkarmerruk wrote: Are
Yes the people who I am talking to are actually there fighting as a member of the YPG. If this site would let my screenshot of the conversation show up you would of seen this:
"they will teach you about APO and they're political philosophy when you are at the training academy but you don't have to be into it"
But for someone supposedly so close to the Kurds and their struggle you are not actually fighting with them, strangely, so you don't really know what they think.
Reddebrek wrote: Georgie89
If a white woman tweeted killallmuslimmen in a muslim nation would it be seen as the same as what bahar did? Stop lying you sad white knight.
That is a really long walk around the statement:
"My politics and those of the general libcom user and almost zero support amongst any segement of the population"
For people with almsot no support you sure do like speaking on behalf of workers, women, people of colour. Workers don't support socialism, as you can see by the size of the feminist movement and membership of feminist groups most women don't in anyway identify as feminist.
So do you wonder why when SJW's try and have someone fired or act cunty to them it might lead to irritation? Do you think the SJW's irritate most people? Let me guess you ahve not counted so can't possibly comment? LOL.
kurremkarmerruk wrote: Are
Yours tears taste salty. Your illusions about the YPG shattered. Of course those actual YPG fighters don't know anything about the YPG. hahahaha. Moron.
Georgie89 wrote: gram
Yeah, how could you suggest domestic violence is a "sexism issue"? Sheesh.
So I guess ideas are actually emerge in combat situations and not in thinking I guess. You know like real man I guess, in life death situations. And Kurds they must be like killer militants with one thing in their mind: war and no progressive ideas despite they do implement and write about them :D
To be honest what I like in Kurdish movement is that their ideas and actions show how biased and false your mindset is, It is just a mix of colonial imagination, patriarchal ideas and a naive self-assurance that you know it all, you know the real.
Quote: We support equal
Do you really not understand that feminism is a multi-faceted movement with wide variety of ideas and positions?
You really do not understand the politics of the libcom.org boards, do you?
Georgie89 wrote: That is a
lol, nice bad faith. why does this subject hurt your feelings so much?
Hence why I said this the people identified as feminist in places like Kurdistan would not be comparable to first world "feminists" like Bahar.
When I say I don't support frminism like that of Bahar of Suey Park it does not mean I don't support feminism as espoused by the likes of the YPG or the women in places where women are actually oppressed as a class of people.
Quote: Not the radical
Member for: 3 days 18 hours
Quote: Yours tears taste
What is shattered? Why it should shutter? It is because you say to me you are speaking with militants? Well you also just said you know most of POC think. Do you realize how reliable your profile for me is?
George please go away, you are just being a dick here discussing unrelated issues and not at all reply to anyone's points.
ANYWAY maybe we should all stop wasting this thread with unrelated issues? This forum thread is about a student activist who was threatened with death. Let's everyone stick to it. And maybe admins should just delete comments unrelated to that, this is going ridiculus.
Note: I was actually-in my mind- hiding the animal rights part of kurdish movement by the way from lib com community :D As I was thinking it might further hurt their reputation here. Thanks to George it is out now :D
Quote: Not the radical
Improvement: he now changed what he attacked from feminism to radical feminism.
Again, YPG teaching man what feminism is :D I guess you get your lessons even before going there,
Sorry everyone didn't look at
Sorry everyone didn't look at this thread for a couple of days. "Georgie", a.k.a. Brazilian Jujitsu, who was previously banned for sexist trolling, has been banned again. As he clearly still has issues with women (well, white women at least as he keeps banging on about).
Bizarrely though he also seems to have forgotten his own race, and the fact that he repeatedly referred to himself as white, before then claiming not to be. Whoops!
Also he doesn't understand what hipsters are.
He also seems to have no understanding of logic or the ability to make a rational argument. Pretty much every post he did on this thread was also off topic.
Anyway spending time posting on here getting himself all worked up about horrible white women with their "white women grins" is just delaying his getting his ticket to Syria, so our banning him should help him get his priorities in order to get packing!
Finally, I'm pretty impressed with how he now has such an insightful understanding of the YPG and PKK, and their female members and their views on feminism and women's liberation in particular. Especially how he gleaned this so quickly having stated on the forums about two days ago he spoke to someone from the YPG for the first time then!
Steven. wrote: He also seems
He also doesn't understand how the internet works, and posted a link to a local file on his hard drive, then wondered why it didn't show up here. :roll:
So to answer kurremkarmerruk's rhetorical question, yes he is a stupid little fuck.
omen wrote: Steven.
lol that's brilliant!
eta I meant to say also I found his tales of his workplace where apparently his female colleagues spend their days making fun of Bahar, feminists and tumblr social justice warriors, shall we say slightly unconvincing…
Looks like Georgie made it to
Looks like Georgie made it to Rojava! Found a picture of his receiving a warm reception as a renowned scholar of the oppressed peoples of the third world and representative of the hatred toward self-entitled middle class SJW feminism ubiquitous among all real proles.
Well not to get conspricy
Well not to get conspricy really but recently flint also commented that Anti-war also does not know how to upload things to net so they can be seen by others (so he/she give references to his/her hard drive) well I am not saying anything or pointing fingers, but the intelligence of some of my opponents show a strong resemblance that frightens me :)
Note: you got to give me the right to make this comment :) . Please nobody feel bad or think I am criticising everyone
I bloody knew it. I thought I recognized the annoying little fucker.
Well, that went well By the
Well, that went well :D
By the way, what does 'SJW' mean???
Serge Forward wrote: Well,
Social Justice Warrior. The main topic of conversation for female proletarians in the UK, apparently…
Thanks, Steven. I'm so unhip
Thanks, Steven. I'm so unhip I'm still using terms like TTFN. Can someone do a glossary of social meeja bollocks sometime, just for those of us who can't be arsed with such shite.
Serge Forward wrote: Thanks,
Nah, that's a bullshit
Nah, that's a bullshit dictionary. I've added words only ever used in my family to that... or stuff invented solely for shits and giggles. Besides, I like being unhip. It's what I do best.
autogestión wrote: However,
As a side note,
Actually a lot of FGM (in se Asia in particular) is completely analogous with male circumcision as its only the clitoral hood that is cut. A blanket ban on all FGM is inconsistent if MGM is also not banned.
Fuck the police
Fuck the police -